A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

el3mel

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Even without any trophies?
If he built a team as good as Spurs one and was finishing regularly 2nd and 3rd and reaching advanced stages in CL, I can see myself being very content with that.
 

zenith

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Would be even be available right now. I mean, won't he stand to lose his severence package if he were to take up another job in the league before a cooling off period??
 

Champagne Football

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How is Poch a proven elite manager? Last time I checked him and Ole have they same trophy count. Does finishing second with Spurs once since he took over and reaching two cup finals without winning any makes you elite nowadays.
Getting to a champions league final, and finishing second on a shoestring is a miracle achievement. In some ways better than Pep winning the league at City or Jose at Chelsea with vast fortunes to spend.
Last year Klopp was supposed to be a crap manager due to low trophy count. But he's the best in the world now apparently. The whole hiring managers based on trophy count is the reason we are in this mess. Van Gaal with a cabinet full of trophies won with empty victories at clubs that could win their domestic league with 2 less players in every game. Same with Jose. Most of his trophies were empty victories, where he had 10 times more spending than everyone else, didn't develop any kids, and spent vast fortunes on 30 year old thst would need to be replaced 2 years later.
Identifying an elite coach is not only based whether they develop youth, play attractive football, raise players to a level higher than other managers get from them, but also how they conduct themselves during a crisis and their longevity at clubs too. Pochettino ticks all the boxes. It was clear after the CL final he wanted to leave, felt he deserved to be released, yet Levy obviously felt otherwise so Pochettino downed tools months ago.
Any clown can turn up at PSG, Bayern or Celtic and win 6 trophies in 2 seasons.
There's very few managers out there who tick all the boxes to succeed at Man Utd, and many of the managers who have a big trophy haul would be the last person you'd ever want near Man Utd - Capello, Mancini, Neil Lennon, Unai Emery, Jose Mourinho, Conte, Diego Simeone, Wenger etc
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Why are we so hell bent on Pochettino who hasn't won any trophies. He isn't a winner. Even when we were playing shit with Jose and LVG we still won cups because they are winners. I feel Pochettino can only get us as far as consistently getting top 4. But if we're truly looking at going back to the old days of constantly winning the league and cups then we need a coach that is a winner. That's a very important criteria if we're looking to return back to our old ways.

This time though we have to appoint with sense. LVG and Mourinho were proven winners but they couldn't get us close to the title. And to me that's because there are certain criterias we should also be looking for in a manager not just a manager's achievements. We have to be looking at whether the manager can carry out a rebuild, whether the manager can work with youth, whether the manager plays attractive attacking football. Combine this criterias with being a winner. To me a Manger that ticks all these boxes is the only manager I would say is deserving of time even when our results are poor.

We could appoint Graham Potter because he has Brighton playing good football but he will never win us the title because he doesn't know what it's like to be at the top especially in a big club/league. We can appoint Allegri because of his achievements but we still wouldn't win the title unless we sell 90% of our players who are youth. LVG worked with youth and was planning a rebuild but fans wanted him out because our football was dreadful to watch.

A winner, can work with youth, can carry out a rebuild and play attacking football. That should be the criteria for our next appointment. So far the only people I can think of that match this criteria is our own Ferguson before he came to us and Klopp. I'll say it again, if we're looking at appointing a manager that will make us dominate in the league again the Poch isn't our guy. But if we want to be consistent and comfortable members in the top 4 then by all means we should get him.
 

roonster09

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Why are we so hell bent on Pochettino who hasn't won any trophies. He isn't a winner.
Because you can always look beyond honors list in wiki, you can watch his work at Spurs and how he worked at Southampton and judge his work based on that, rather than just winning few domestic cups.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Why are we so hell bent on Pochettino who hasn't won any trophies. He isn't a winner.
Being a winner is currently so overrated among United fans. We don't need a 'winner'. We need someone to lay strong modern footballing foundations so that we finally have a proper football team in 2-3 years time that just needs that extra push (from him or someone else) to challenge on all fronts. That the ideal scenario. The odd cup here and there should not be the focus.

It's like Spurs. They didn't win anything under Pochettino and that can be held against him. But they've got a new stadium, are able to attract a manager like Jose Mourinho and just spent a decent amount (what was it, 100 million?) this past summer, all while achieving CL football consistently. On the whole that's not what you would expect from Spurs and their standing has increased over the last 3-4 years for sure. They have a strong base.

That's what we need. Of course we are richer and bigger than spurs do the expectations have to be higher as always. However we need to remember to walk before we can run. You can have all the winners - Zlatan, Pogba , Mourinho as you want. Unless you are a cohesive football team, you will get nowhere (other than the odd cup). I don't want cups. I want progress.
 

amolbhatia50k

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As for Pochettino. If we can bag an upcoming manager who is more talented, more tactically advanced etc than him (for example of Rose, The Ajax coach or Rose are that) then we should go with them instead rather than straddling ourselves with a lesser talent. But from the ones I know, of course id take him. His work at Spurs was excellent. Just hope he is expansive enough.
 

Nickelodeon

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Why are we so hell bent on Pochettino who hasn't won any trophies. He isn't a winner. Even when we were playing shit with Jose and LVG we still won cups because they are winners. I feel Pochettino can only get us as far as consistently getting top 4. But if we're truly looking at going back to the old days of constantly winning the league and cups then we need a coach that is a winner. That's a very important criteria if we're looking to return back to our old ways.

This time though we have to appoint with sense. LVG and Mourinho were proven winners but they couldn't get us close to the title. And to me that's because there are certain criterias we should also be looking for in a manager not just a manager's achievements. We have to be looking at whether the manager can carry out a rebuild, whether the manager can work with youth, whether the manager plays attractive attacking football. Combine this criterias with being a winner. To me a Manger that ticks all these boxes is the only manager I would say is deserving of time even when our results are poor.

We could appoint Graham Potter because he has Brighton playing good football but he will never win us the title because he doesn't know what it's like to be at the top especially in a big club/league. We can appoint Allegri because of his achievements but we still wouldn't win the title unless we sell 90% of our players who are youth. LVG worked with youth and was planning a rebuild but fans wanted him out because our football was dreadful to watch.

A winner, can work with youth, can carry out a rebuild and play attacking football. That should be the criteria for our next appointment. So far the only people I can think of that match this criteria is our own Ferguson before he came to us and Klopp. I'll say it again, if we're looking at appointing a manager that will make us dominate in the league again the Poch isn't our guy. But if we want to be consistent and comfortable members in the top 4 then by all means we should get him.
We are hell bent on Ole who is not going to bring us either of the two. Considering the logical perspective, what other option do we have? We should look to replace Ole as early as possible, get a new man in, get a couple of signings in January and then focus on the fact that whether we should prioritise the PL or Europa considering where we're at right now.

Hanging on to this slow death is sucking the life out of the club. You could sense it in the joylessness in the OT crowd yesterday. They can't boo but there's nothing to cheer and the whole place is devoid of energy.
 

ManRed

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Even without any trophies?
We are so far away from any meaningful trophies that it's stupid to think of it at the moment. Next 2-3 years should be about building the team and system to achieve top 4 and become a top side. We are a mid table side at the moment. If we overachieve and win a trophy in that time then that's bonus.
 

roonster09

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We are so far away from any meaningful trophies that it's stupid to think of it at the moment. Next 2-3 years should be about building the team and system to achieve top 4 and become a top side. We are a mid table side at the moment. If we overachieve and win a trophy in that time then that's bonus.
If we go by that, we will never challenge for any trophies. Not every season we should be starting from scratch, we already have good team with few gaps, hire a good coach and then fill those gaps, we should be good to go.

All it takes is a good coach and 1 very good transfer window.
 

Himannv

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I think he's a fantastic coach and would be great for United, but I also think he's rubbish in the transfer market. If we do indeed hire Poch, I hope we will also hire a proper DoF to ensure continuity, style, process, structure, etc. Probably will happen when pigs fly.
 

ManRed

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If we go by that, we will never challenge for any trophies. Not every season we should be starting from scratch, we already have good team with few gaps, hire a good coach and then fill those gaps, we should be good to go.

All it takes is a good coach and 1 very good transfer window.
Why wouldn't we challenge for trophies? Look at Liverpool that's the great recent example of building a side over 2-3 years and now they are in a position to go for titles. Klopp didnt go in looking for titles in year 1 itself. No one expects us to win a trophy this or even the next season.
 

roonster09

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Why wouldn't we challenge for trophies? Look at Liverpool that's the great recent example of building a side over 2-3 years and now they are in a position to go for titles. Klopp didnt go in looking for titles in year 1 itself. No one expects us to win a trophy this or even the next season.
Liverpool did go for titles from day 1, that's why they finished runners up in couple of cups in first season, finished CL runners up in season 3 and finally winning it in season 4.

No one plans to win 5 years from now, you have to plan from this season which would take us somewhere. Otherwise we will end up with infinite loop of "planning for next 5 years" without achieving anything". Things won't magically click after x number of years. You have to keep trying from season 1 which will lead us to title if we are good enough.
 

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It will be interesting to see him handle a club that spends heavily, there has been a perception that he doesn't like experience pros as they will question him where as youngsters will do as they are told
 

Darlington Padgett

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It puzzles me that so many people don't see the problem in hiring a guy who performed so poorly over the last almost 18 months - and by all accounts turned the majority of his players against him. That was why I was opposed to us getting Mourinho.

To me that is a major warning flag. If we had been after Pochettino 18 months ago, I would be all for it. But when a manager can turn a team from one of the best in the League to losing 50% of the matches in his last 36 matches for Spurs - now that is a serious warning sign.
It worked perfectly for Liverpool with Klopp.....
 

Cassidy

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its took them 3-4 years to get there though
They were playing good football from the start
Its going to take us a similar amount of time, also it took them that long because they refused to splash the cash for the first 2/3 years
 

Kush

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United journos who write for Athletic say Ole's job is under no imminent threat. So, I doubt we are one of the clubs who have made him an offer. Logic points to a Bayern post, or even Arsenal.

That’s not really the argument though is it?

The goal is to get back to winning the league, winning trophies. Whether it’s Ole doing that or someone else. Failure to do so is, well, failure.
Well if both of them are failing to win the league or trophies but one is successfully guiding us to CL football while other is guiding to Europa/no European football. Then, one is a bigger failure than the other.

Can't believe I'm having to write this stuff, some of the arguments made in favor of Ole are dumbfounded.
 

Jimmy Skitz

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United journos who write for Athletic say Ole's job is under no imminent threat. So, I doubt we are one of the clubs who have made him an offer. Logic points to a Bayern post, or even Arsenal.
any offer you've made is most likely for the summer, get it done but not announced until the summer
 

el3mel

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That’s not really the argument though is it?

The goal is to get back to winning the league, winning trophies. Whether it’s Ole doing that or someone else. Failure to do so is, well, failure.
I'm talking on the hypothetical, ridiculous scenario that he doesn't win things here in 5 years, that I will still be content with finishing regularly 2nd and 3rd and reaching CL semis and final from time to time after years of finishing 6th and so. But of course, he will win something here, why won't he? It's a ridiculous argument, even a dinosaur way past his best who was totally a crap here like LvG with a crap squad ended up winning a trophy.
 

Kush

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any offer you've made is most likely for the summer, get it done but not announced until the summer
You could be right. We followed the same pattern with Mourinho too, had him on a pre-agreement in December while kept reassuring van Gaal that his job was safe. Only to sack him a day after winning the FA Cup. :nervous:

However, you can never be certain with us. We don't necessarily make logical moves.
 

Zen86

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That's the joke.
I'm talking on the hypothetical, ridiculous scenario that he doesn't win things here in 5 years, that I will still be content with finishing regularly 2nd and 3rd and reaching CL semis and final from time to time after years of finishing 6th and so. But of course, he will win something here, why won't he? It's a ridiculous argument, even a dinosaur way past his best who was totally a crap here like LvG with a crap squad ended up winning a trophy.
Speaks volumes for Van Gaal that he got sacked straight after winning a trophy.

And why wouldn’t Poch win something? Well, because he hasn’t done that.
 

el3mel

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Speaks volumes for Van Gaal that he got sacked straight after winning a trophy.

And why wouldn’t Poch win something? Well, because he hasn’t done that.
Yeah he hasn't done that with Spurs, means feck all when he manages a bigger club with more budget.
 

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Poch took that Spurs team to the UCL final last year (I know that's a "long time ago" for some of you). Meanwhile we've lost to some team from one of the "stans" and we're turning our noses up at Poch? Calgon take me away!
 

Skills

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Any chance he takes on the argentina job, considering the unique opportunity of a final Messi WC/International tournament?
 

USREDEVIL

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Speaks volumes for Van Gaal that he got sacked straight after winning a trophy.

And why wouldn’t Poch win something? Well, because he hasn’t done that.
Same was said about Klopp until he won that lil European trophy. Point is that there is no force field around the trophies keeping Poch from winning them. Maybe a little luck, more money to spend, and he'll be winning trophies.
 

AshRK

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I won't deny Poch is a top coach, he is. But this whole narrative that he took this spurs side to the final so he should make us great is a weird statement considering Spurs squad is much much better than ours and much more stable than ours. Whoever comes to manage us will have a huge task and probably their most difficult task in their career.
 

Xaviboy

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We will lose out on getting Poch and then when the club do eventually lose patience with Ole be no one out there to get so easily.
 

Zen86

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That's the joke.
Same was said about Klopp until he won that lil European trophy. Point is that there is no force field around the trophies keeping Poch from winning them. Maybe a little luck, more money to spend, and he'll be winning trophies.
I like Poch for what it’s worth. He would probably be my preference as far as other managers go, but he’s far from a sure thing at this level.
 

Leroy The Red

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It puzzles me that so many people don't see the problem in hiring a guy who performed so poorly over the last almost 18 months - and by all accounts turned the majority of his players against him. That was why I was opposed to us getting Mourinho.

To me that is a major warning flag. If we had been after Pochettino 18 months ago, I would be all for it. But when a manager can turn a team from one of the best in the League to losing 50% of the matches in his last 36 matches for Spurs - now that is a serious warning sign.
Guess you missed Jurgen Klopps last year at Dortmund. They were complete garbage.
And by what you’re saying Poch’ first four seasons at spurs should basically be ignored.

I don’t really get people questioning Poch, all these straw man arguments, about how Spurs were top 4 before he came, about him not winning a trophy, the last 18 months etc etc.

Before Poch came to Spurs the last time they finished in the top three in the league was 25 years ago.
He finished in the top three with Spurs three years in a row playing a very good brand of modern football, developing young talent. It’s fecking obvious that he’s a great coach, under him players like Walker, Alderweireld, Eriksen, Ali, Son, Vertonghen, Dembele, became elite Premier League players. I don’t remember many big clubs bending over backwards to sign any of these players six years ago.
It’s no easy feet finishing in the Top 4 of the Pl four years in a row. Only Man City have done it, spending about twenty times the amount Spurs have in that same period.
I’m just staggered that people think he wouldn’t be a good fit.
I don’t even care about the lack of trophies, what this club so badly needs is not the odd cup win, we need a good footballing coach, someone who with time has proven emphatically that he can mould and develop a team to a high standard.

I’m tired of either clueless or rigid coaches. A lot of United fans just want some good football again. Im sick and tired of seeing a clueless team out there every fecking week because of our horrible horrible coaches. A lot just want to see United look like a functioning team again, a team with an actual plan and style and if there are people denying Poch achieved this comfortably for most of his reign at Spurs than they’re fecking idiots to put it bluntly.

Absolutely stupid to judge him based on the last 18 months(which his team btw still managed to drag themselves to a top 4 finish and Cl final, something that’s a pipe dream for this current United). I mean seriously, people are turning their noses up at that with the absolute monstrosity that is this United team under Ole which is more likely to finish this season in the bottom half. Good grief..
 
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Kush

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Guess you missed Jurgen Klopps last year at Dortmund. They were complete garbage.
And by what you’re saying Poch’ first four seasons at spurs should basically be ignored.

I don’t really get people questioning Poch, all these straw man arguments, about how Spurs were top 4 before he came, about him not winning a trophy, the last 18 months etc etc.
You shouldn't be surprised, a quick look at their post history would reveal a lot. Majority of them happen to be Ole supporters who are happy to re-write revisionist history to paint their man in better light.

Fact of the matter is, there are no guarantees in football. You could appoint Pep/Klopp tomorrow and there will be no certainties about them being successful here. Same applies for any other manager including Pochettino, of all the available managers at the moment he seems like the best candidate.
 

Fox_Chrys

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Poch should be to you as Puel was to us.

Have him rebuild your team with exciting young hungry players, and when he does eventually leave have the club in a prime position to take on a manager primed for winning trophies.

It seems the logical appointment for you to make.

Also given he needs a break and you only just appointed Ole, Jimmy's idea of a pre agreement makes sense as well.
 

izec

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Any chance he takes on the argentina job, considering the unique opportunity of a final Messi WC/International tournament?
dont think so. He can get a lucrative job in England/Europe, dont see him managing the chaotic NT. I also think he loves club football more, the everyday approach rather than international football.
 

USREDEVIL

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Poch should be to you as Puel was to us.

Have him rebuild your team with exciting young hungry players, and when he does eventually leave have the club in a prime position to take on a manager primed for winning trophies.

It seems the logical appointment for you to make.

Also given he needs a break and you only just appointed Ole, Jimmy's idea of a pre agreement makes sense as well.
So you don't fancy us taking Brendon Rodgers then?