It's all well and good harping on about Solskjaer's win percentages but this is the Pochettino thread. His was even worse over the same period with what most would agree is a better squad.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The other poster suggested that we were applying a plan concocted by SAF, unless if you think that for some reason SAF decided that he would forget his 27 years of experience and start a plan as if he knew nothing, SAF isn't going to go back to the Mal Donaghy years when he creates a plan for Ole, he will use the successful formula.
If we get rid of Ole,then I”m pretty sure that Pochettino would be our first choice....In many ways he would be a great fit for the club....
There are some rumours that Pochettino is Man City's first choice too if Pep Guardiola leaves at the end of the season..
First of all I don't rate their current squad @Leftback99, not many on here do. Poch overachieved with them in my opinion.
Kane is class, as in Son, but then it gets rather weak. Their keeper is worse than DDG, they've got an old back 4 and midfield that most weeks consists of players like Sissoko, Winks and Dier.
I do get the point you are making but after doing a solid job for 5 seasons I personally think the he earned the time to refresh that squad and rebuild, even if it meant a season finishing 8th. It really did feel like many had come to the end of their cycle with the club like Rose, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertongen, Dier.
This is where the SAF comparison should come in (not with fecking 38% win rate and no previous pedigree Ole); after SAF did a cracking job in his first 1.5 seasons with the squad he had and proving what a coach he was, SAF earned the time and patience that followed.
Poch's win-rate in his 5 full seasons at Spurs:
2014-15: 50%
2015-16: 50%
2016-17: 68.4%
2017-18: 60.5%
2018-19: 60.5%
They are undeniably fantastic and Mourinho so far is only proving my point that it's a squad in need of a big refresh.
What culture is Ole installing? Fergie was a complete authoritarian. Ole is the complete opposite.
It's pointless to keep pointing back Fergie and Klopp's first years as managers at united and liverpool. Both of them were world class managers before they came. Ole has been a manager for 10 years with little to prove and not a sane united fan wanted him as permanent manager when Mourinho was just sacked. He's had 1 year now and results wise he's during worse than mourinho when he was trying to get sacked.
Keeping on referencing the greatest manager of all time and currently the best manager in the world as an argument to keep Ole is mental, because he's not in the same stratosphere as those managers. It's fine to point out that Ole might do better when we have a better squad, but there is really no evidence that there arent better managers out there who can and want to manage Man Utd.
I'm certain he'll do better with a better squad, you'd have to be one dog shit manager to do worse
Many are looking past their best now but before the start of the season most including myself expected a solid 3rd from them. Let's not pretend our squad is great in comparison which is only fair when comparing win percentages.
I would say he slightly overachieved with them with 16/17 the standout but it was a very well balanced squad.
If Pochettino is our next manager I wouldn't be unhappy with it, I'm just skeptical it will be as great as people imagine. This squad is a long way from 16/17 Spurs in quality AND the level of competition is far higher than what it was when Poch gained most of his hype.
I love it when people use selected statistics to suit their agenda. Politicians do it all the time
Like?I love it when people use selected statistics to suit their agenda. Politicians do it all the time
Our squad and theirs currently, not a load in it for me.
DDG better than Loris
AWB better than any RB they have
Luke Shaw and their LBs are both crap
Maguire and Lindelöf about the same as their ageing CB's
CM is similar (we're better if Pogba is ever fit but he isn't, especially now Eriksen has taken a leave of absence)
Rashford Martial and James - Kane and Son are better for sure. With Kane now out again they are in dire shit.
There really isn't much in it.
But their win percentage this season was wank with Poch after 12 games, I simply mean Poch in his first 5 seasons did a cracking job and comparing Ole to him on 12 games is not just daft, but down right ridiculous.
Either way, Poch did do a cracking job and did deserve time to rebuild in my opinion. I don't see that Ole has done anything in his past or here so far to just blindly give him time if he ends the season in 6th or 7th on a 40% or so win rate.
I think I'd take their entire midfield and forward line over ours TBH. Defence is a wash.
Kane, Son, Moura, Alli, Lamela, Lo Celso, Eriksen, Ndombele, Sissoko, Dier, Winks, Wanyama, Sessegnon
vs
Martial, Rashford, James, Lingard, Mata, Greenwood, McTominay, Matic, Pogba, Fred
I'm not convinced apart from Pogba anyone else would even get in their first XI including Rashford.
DDG, Maguire, AWB, Pogba and Rashford all get into spurs’ first 11.
Exactly, it's about 50% give or take & a toss of a coin to see which useless sod plays at LB.
I was comparing over the last year which is at least 30 games. It's still a valid concern. You can't excuse Poch because his squad needs a rebuild but expect Ole to have a high win % with a squad that also has clear limitations. That's ignoring that i'm told on here it's all about coaching rather than the quality of players at your disposal.
Yup - speaking just about midfield / attackers. I don't think Rashford will get into their side because Son is incredible, but if they really did have him they might change tactics / drop Alli or whatever.
That wasn't the point I was making. I was making the point that Poch got fired despite proving he can do it previously.
They'd play Rashford, Kane and Son with Alli behind for sure.
And Fred would play ahead of Winks.
Either way, the league table and Poch and Mou's comments tell you all you need to know, they are not in good shape.
Exactly - it's the flaw in all these arguments for Ole (SAF got time, Klopp got time, even Pep got time etc) they were all top managers already, they all had built at least one top team.
I'd hope this guy is our next manager.
He did prove he could do it previously, when he had a better, younger squad. It's a factor for Poch's win % dropping, Ole's being low wouldn't you agree?
Problem with posts like this is you're only looking at this season. We barely won a game since Ole's been at United.
People gloss over it due to reaching the CL Final, which wasn't quite what you'd call a convincing run of games - it was the same form pretty much as the league, with VAR helping to paper over it and some Moura miracles.
To be honest romanticism and history is all we’ve got to cling to the moment
if only we had a 2.66% interest rate on a loan, that would make me forget about everything else.
Bring him or Naglesmann, Rose / Tuchel in.
That would make sense for all parties involved.
Been on the cards since Arteta was told he wouldn't be guaranteed to take over at City. It's a dream job for most managers - unlimited money and a top team to inherit. Foden would actually get some regular minutes as well with Poch!
Ed Woodward should be on the phone to Poch’s people right now and making contingency plans should it go tits up with Solskjær, which it currently looks to be heading that way. Actually be pro active for once.
I don’t know if Ole will ever get to a regular 60% win rate if he gets 5 more of his own players, none of us do.
Poch we know.
Sounds amazing. Don’t even need to play football with numbers like that
We can be pretty confident it would be higher than it is with better players, it's just common sense.
Poch we know with a good side he's capable of a high win %. However even his historic best wouldn't compete with the current Liverpool and City which is the level we want.
Complete opposite? You have access to the changing rooms then do you? Talking keek lad
Me too. You take something that fits it purpose, turns and twists, put some numbers here and there, cuts and paste and suddenly you got something backing you up and your agenda.I love it when people use selected statistics to suit their agenda. Politicians do it all the time
As one example. I like that some people still say Solskjaer has 38% win rate (23, 28, 31 and all those numbers) when the real number is exactly 50%.
It’s not common sense at all and we don’t know he’ll target “better players”.
Puel had the same squad as Rodgers but had a much lower %, so why are you certain Ole would do better? Can Ole motivate them enough, can he coach them well enough?
I mean, I'm sure you're more than well aware the Ole's best form as United manager came with Mourinho's squad rather than the one he is building himself.
And Poch would have a different platform here to compete, that really is common sense, United are just bigger than Tottenham in every single way.
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Proving he can do what? Fluke a trip to the CL final and totally bottle it. That's all he's done.
Under Ole the team feels lethargic, under-coached, inconsistent, too defensive, useless in possession but under Poch I reckon we would have a different outlook on the club.
It's amazing how much perspective plays a role in the assessment of a team. If Poch had even a solid season he would uplift around 3 years of downward spirits and we would feel like and be heading in a new direction. If we the fans feel like we are going nowhere under Solskjaer then I can only imagine how the players feel as I'm sure it's amplified.
It's amazing how much perspective plays a role in the assessment of a team. If Poch had even a solid season he would uplift around 3 years of downward spirits and we would feel like and be heading in a new direction. If we the fans feel like we are going nowhere under Solskjaer then I can only imagine how the players feel as I'm sure it's amplified.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that he was massively outspent by both. I don't want him at United because after Mourinho I am now wary of damaged goods managers i.e managers who have lost dressing rooms before but I think he is the perfect guy for what we are trying to achieve with Ole.
He already knows high pressing tactics and has built a good team on a budget whilst promoting some youths. You would assume that with access to more resources and his coaching ability he could go up a level. I think that if he can replicate what he did at Spurs here he could be the stabilizing agent we need before we look for someone better a few years from now.
My preferred option however is a complete overhaul. Sack Ole and bring in Rangnick as Interim Manager cum DOF, task him with scouting the next great manager and enticing him here for next season then let him lead the rebuild or just take Rodgers and a DOF for recruitment.
2016-17: 68.4% win rate
2017-18: 60.5% win rate
2018-19: 60.5% win rate
Win-rate over his entire spell including this season 52.4%. With Tottenham Hotspur man.
Sure mate @alexthelion
Great. What trophies does he have to show for this amazing win rate?
Such a lame childish response to the work he did there, he was managing Tottenham Hotspur man. Nagelsmann hasn't won anything either.
Di Matteo won a CL, is he better? LVG won an FA Cup, did he do a better job at United than Poch at Spurs?
I'd be willing to bet both Nagelsmann and Poch win a fair bit in their next positions, as both will step up the ladder to clubs much more capable.