A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Bestietom

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Poch will wait until the summer, if he wants the job here.
 

reddevilchennai

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AC Milan, Liverpool, Tottenham, Bayern München, Boroussia Dortmund, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Juventus, Inter Milan, Arsenal and Chelsea. These are just some of the clubs who have gone through either enormous rebuilds over the last generations. Some team are fortunate enough to find those generational talents within their squad early on either through fortunate recruitment or academy that carries them for the next decade and over (Barcelona, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Messi, Pique, Bosquets. Manchester Unitd: Class of 92, Eric Cantona, CR7,) - While other clubs have high highs and low valleys, like Inter Milan and AC Milan, even Bourussia Dortmund. 10 years ago Bayern München finished third in the bundesliga. Juventus has been dominant in the Seria A since 2011. Before that they had double seasons at 7th.

Liverpool is the very dictionary definition of a "constantly" rebuilding team.Manchester City, Chelsea and PSG bought themselves a team with monopoly money.

Hell, there are 2 teams in world football that has had consistent grip on the top of the table in the past 15 years, Real Madrid and Barcelona, and their key was always the backbones of their team that far and above rivaled anyone in the league and their impossibly big financial advantage over other Spanish teams.

Every other team in world football has had the low valleys. It's a little comical that we are so spoiled rotten that we never though this could possibly happen to us. Like, why wouldn't it? When the financial powers of the clubs are starting to get to an equal level, you are ALWAYS going to have shifts in powers. You can not retain the status quo forever if your competition is competing on equal terms, it's just not going to happen. Hell, even the greatest Sumo Yokozuna in the history of the sport gets slapped around from time to time.

Regarding rebuild. Happy to address it. If you are willing to agree that the word rebuild implies changing and developing players, not just telling them to play in a different formation than your predecessor.

1) Marcus Rashford, 22 yo. - Surpassed his previous goal total on a season. Halfway into the current season. Joint 2nd top scorer with 14 goals. Marcus Rashfords xG stat is so skewed because of his misses previously in the season that if all averages meet in the middle, Rashford is this seasons top scorer. (The point about this argument is that Marcus Rashford has missed a LOT of high danger chances that a more in form Marcus Rashford would have scored on)
2) Mason Greenwood, 18 yo. - 9 goals on the season - Developing as one of the best striker talents in Europe currently. Not being overused, eased into the team.
3) Brandon Williams 19 yo. - Leftback - Usurped Luke Shaw as the teams first choice LB - Incredible talent who gives us what we've lacked - Forward ability.
4) Fred - Largely considered a flop, by everyone from fans to pundits. Has under OGS turned around and become one of the teams best players. Several motm lever peformances recently. Currently justifying his pricetag - Was conidered a waste leading into the season
5) Daniel Jame - A longshot prospect from the lower leagues - One of our best players early in the seson. Currently shares fourth with 6 assists in the EPL on the season
6) Offense. This team generates a LOT more offense than the projection is when we don't win a game. We've generated the 4th most amount of shots so far this season. 7 behind Liverpool.
7) Bad luck. We got 9 hits in the woodwork so far. The 2nd most of any team, right behind Manchester City
8) We're still stingy with the goals. 25 GA ranks 5th in the league with Manchester City. A vast improvement on previous season.
9) GD is a lot better this season around. We're on pace to improving our GA despite losing Lukaku.
10) Rebuilding team. The age of the team played on opening day was the youngest in that game round. Funfact: Manchester United have fielded the squad with the lowest average age a total of 10 times this season. Including the 2 youngest squads overalll.
11) See 10. Kids take time to develop. Thus the mantra of "We are going to see ups and downs". Its a stop to the policy of buying random players for all the money, and rather take time developing the young future stars. See 1-3 + 12 + 14for reference.
12) Tuanzebe 22 yo. Was on the verge of demoting Lindelöf to the bench before he got injured. Thus would have completed a 100% defensive unit turnover from previous seasons 57GA debacle.
13) Playing to our strengths. Pogba is out, and has barely participated in the season. We lack a creative offensive midfielder that can break down tight packed defensive teams. Jesse Lingard has disappeared from form and likely needs a change of scenery. As a result, while we wait to recruit the players that can fill this role we play to our strengths. We have one of the quickest team in the league and there's an argument to be made that Manchester United is currently the best team in the world right now on the break. Teams that play high always struggle, as we saw with Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham etc.
14) Scott McTominay. A player with not a lot of hype around him but someone who has gone from a good previous season to a crucial contributor this season. Another academy graduate.
15) David De Gea - As opposed to last season when De Geas junior mistakes cost us our CL bid, he's been true to form this season apart from a couple unfortunately very costly mistakes. If anything he has benefited from the managers public backing in times of turmoil.
16) The entire mood around the club. Now, this one is a bit of a perception thing, but what we have improved vastly from last year is the relentless negativity that seeped through every aspect of the clubs, with the manager being in open conflict with the board, despite being backed like no manager before him in the transfer market.
17) Getting rid of the deadwood - Non competers. Fellaini, Sanchez, Lukaku - All had different reaons for being unloaded. Fellaini just wasn't a part of the future here, Sanchez had scored 3 league goals for the club while sitting on the worst contract in football. Lukaku told OGS he wanted out - and was promptly allowed to leave. Lukaku has previously gone on in an interview and declared his everlasting respect to OGS for allowing him to go when he did.
18) Not backing down. Earlier in the season when we had our worst run of form and desperately needed a win. OGS responded by playing a junior team in the EL. If anything he has shown that he will not compromise on the project to save his own skin, or buy panic players that might save his job in the short term. There is never a "me" it's always about the longevity of the club. And it's hard to argue that that's a good thing.
19) Recruitment. OGS is 3/3 with finding staple first XI players thus far. Maguire has delivered some so so performances to the outright statesman like ones. Daniel James and AWB are both 22 and considered developing talents. facets of their game will continue to develop as time moves on. Harry Maguire is a natural leader and looks slotted to become our new Captain when Ashely Young departs either in January or this spring
20) The players. The players have completely sold in to the project the club is undertaking and a united playergroup went out of their way to go directly to Woodward ahead of the Tottenham game to give OGS their support and ask him not to sack him. No one here knows what's happening behind closed doors, but the players would not bother with that if there was not a very unifying amount of respect and belief in whats happening in the player group.

As for the Brendan Rodgers effect: Do you mean the biggest win streak of any debuting manager in Premier League history, the longest away win streak or the "third place" EPL finish after his managerial takeover of the club? We could throw in the night in Paris there but that's just icing on the cake.
Let us ignore the following facts:
1) We have only have 34 points from a possible 66.
2) Managed to win only 9 games out of 22 games.
3) Nearly out of the Carbaro cup

No other manager in the world could write off a season saying we are improving, long term project, etc & no other board accepts this kind of mediocrity from the manager and no other clubs' half fanbase believe in the lies from incompetent manager and board.
 

Infra-red

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United reaching out to Pochettino (if indeed they have), doesn't necessarily mean that Ole is for the chop.

Sensible to set up a 'plan B' in case they decide to make a change, though, and Pochettino is one of the best in the business.
 

Lynty

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It's never going to happen. Surprised this thread is 290 pages long.
 

Shakesey

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Rebuild rebuild rebuild, it's all I ever hear on this forum, funny enough we seem to be the only club in world football that seems to be in a perpetual state of it, even other clubs who change managers on the reg aren't constantly rebuilding.

Maybe its just because Pochettino is a hell of a better manager than Ole and Ole has proven absolutely nothing in be able to carry a "rebuild" through. It's one thing to say "Oh we just sack after a few bad results" but we don't do we, if we as a club sacked managers after a few bad results we'd have gone through double the amount of managers we have done since Fergie retired. We sack managers because the state of the football on the pitch has been horrendous, as have the transfer dealings and any number of things. Please point to any statistic or facet of our style of play on the pitch, our tactics and things like that, that shows how fantastic Ole has been so far, please, show me the Brendan Rodgers effect Ole has had on this team, like he has had on Leicester.
I can't believe the words "Brendan Rodgers" have been linked to "Effect". The Brendan Rodgers Effect. And it is used POSITIVELY! Feck me. What's this world coming to.
 

Tom Cato

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Let us ignore the following facts:
1) We have only have 34 points from a possible 66.
2) Managed to win only 9 games out of 22 games.
3) Nearly out of the Carbaro cup

No other manager in the world could write off a season saying we are improving, long term project, etc & no other board accepts this kind of mediocrity from the manager and no other clubs' half fanbase believe in the lies from incompetent manager and board.
So are most other teams though, I don't understand why this is an argument. The rest ARE in fact an argument. But I'd still err on the side of in favor, for the 20 points listed above. We are still in a better position this season than last, with a team that will only improve, for the natural reasons of personal progression throughout the playergroup.
 

Steven-UK

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You all talk about Mauricio Pochettino like he is some kind of Messiah, he has done NOTHING in the game in terms of actual achievements. 290 pages of rambling nonsense about a manager who has done nothing, is a perfect example of how far we have fallen as a club, and footballing giant.
 

Cassidy

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You all talk about Mauricio Pochettino like he is some kind of Messiah, he has done NOTHING in the game in terms of actual achievements. 290 pages of rambling nonsense about a manager who has done nothing, is a perfect example of how far we have fallen as a club, and footballing giant.
Done nothing... ok
 

L1nk

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Done nothing... ok
Not to mention, 290 pages of waffling over an absolute nothing of a manager and its a perfect example of how far we have fallen as a club. But we hire a manager who has done even less and been a failure at nearly every club he's been at, unlike Pochettino, but that's apparently not a perfect example of how far we have fallen as a club?

Driven by pure emotion and nothing else because he's an ex player, it's not because they are wowed by his presence as a manager or coach or his achievements as one.
 

reddevilchennai

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You all talk about Mauricio Pochettino like he is some kind of Messiah, he has done NOTHING in the game in terms of actual achievements. 290 pages of rambling nonsense about a manager who has done nothing, is a perfect example of how far we have fallen as a club, and footballing giant.
When Ole Gunnar Solskjaer / Permanent manager is allowed 938 pages, Poch who has taken a team to CL final, finished in top 4 multiple times is allowed 290 pages.
 

Leftback99

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Let us ignore the following facts:
1) We have only have 34 points from a possible 66.
2) Managed to win only 9 games out of 22 games.
3) Nearly out of the Carbaro cup

No other manager in the world could write off a season saying we are improving, long term project, etc & no other board accepts this kind of mediocrity from the manager and no other clubs' half fanbase believe in the lies from incompetent manager and board.
Some 2019 Pochettino facts for comparison:
1) In 2019 he only had 40 points from a possible 90. 14 from 36 this season.
2) Managed to win only 11 out of 30 games. 3 out of 12 this season.
3) Crashed out of the Carabao cup to Colchester in the 3rd round.
 

passing-wind

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You all talk about Mauricio Pochettino like he is some kind of Messiah, he has done NOTHING in the game in terms of actual achievements. 290 pages of rambling nonsense about a manager who has done nothing, is a perfect example of how far we have fallen as a club, and footballing giant.
Well Solskjaer has also done nothing of note. Solskjaer has failed at more clubs than he's succeeded and he's failing here currently. I'd understand fans frustration at Poch if we had a Klopp in charge but that's not the case we have quite easily one of the worst managers in top flight football.
 

Zen86

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That's the joke.
Bizarre fanboyism for a manager whose only achievements are bagging top 4 for a few seasons by default, because the competition were terrible at the time, and lucking his way to a CL final for which they didn’t bother turning up anyway.

Speaks volumes that at his absolute peak of management, he was soundly beaten to the title by the mighty Leicester.
 

Zlatan 7

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Bizarre fanboyism for a manager whose only achievements are bagging top 4 for a few seasons by default, because the competition were terrible at the time, and lucking his way to a CL final for which they didn’t bother turning up anyway.

Speaks volumes that at his absolute peak of management, he was soundly beaten to the title by the mighty Leicester.
My thoughts too. I don’t understand the worshiping.

people say he done it with spurs but they probably had one of the best teams in league (top 3 easily) and one of the worlds in form strikers.
they were not as bad as people make out before he got there, redknapp was getting them top four a few years before, Poch didn’t drag spurs from the depths of the league.

now, even the spurs fans here are happy he left and think he should have won stuff when he had the chance
 

Greck

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"Pochettino is an underaccomplished manager who has done nothing". - Person championing the cause of an even more unaccomplished manager
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Kind of sick of people using just trophies to judge managers. I am ok if you don't think that Pochettino should be at United but if you actually genuinely follow football week after week then it is beyond me how you can consider his time at Spurs to be anything but a massive success
 

Zlatan 7

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Kind of sick of people using just trophies to judge managers. I am ok if you don't think that Pochettino should be at United but if you actually genuinely follow football week after week then it is beyond me how you can consider his time at Spurs to be anything but a massive success
He didn’t exactly leave them in a good state, contracts expiring, players wanting out, bottom end of the table and although you don’t like it, he didn’t win anything when he was there. Where’s the massive success?
 

Jibbs

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If anybody here is comparing Poch with Ole and thinks Poch has done nothing of note to be considered for United job, then there is no point arguing with that person, they simply don't know football.
 

GlastonSpur

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He didn’t exactly leave them in a good state, contracts expiring, players wanting out, bottom end of the table and although you don’t like it, he didn’t win anything when he was there. Where’s the massive success?
99% of managers get sacked in the end. But you judge them on their time overall at a club.

Pochettino turned Spurs into a regular top 4 club and - in the process - did it on a tiny budget … which greatly helped us to pay for our new stadium and new training ground.

And reaching a CL final ain't so bad either.
 

Bastian

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If anybody here is comparing Poch with Ole and thinks Poch has done nothing of note to be considered for United job, then there is no point arguing with that person, they simply don't know football.
Agree completely. The only nuance with Poch and United is whether he's the right man for the job. If that PTB bit is true, then I'd be reassured by his having certain requirements and also by what those requirements are.
 

Zen86

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That's the joke.
My thoughts too. I don’t understand the worshiping.

people say he done it with spurs but they probably had one of the best teams in league (top 3 easily) and one of the worlds in form strikers.
they were not as bad as people make out before he got there, redknapp was getting them top four a few years before, Poch didn’t drag spurs from the depths of the league.

now, even the spurs fans here are happy he left and think he should have won stuff when he had the chance
Indeed, he’s such a great manager he was sacked midway through the season by Tottenham Hotspur, who felt that an out of touch Mourinho of all people was a better option.
 

charlenefan

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Listened to his pod. Says it's the same source who told him we'd sign Lukaku and di Maria, before it was out there. Says Poch doesn't have an agent, so they had to find a trusted middleman as Woodward could not be seen discussing with Poch. Poch's demands were: Doesn't want to take over until the summer, demands a DoF, Woodward is not to interfere with football matters and Poch will need funds to go into the market.

Wasn't it you @Adnan who said Poch doesn't want to work with a DoF ?

Not sure what to make of this. Interesting gossip at least.
Just listened myself, over an hour I'll never get back

I'm also calling BS
 

Ayush_reddevil

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He didn’t exactly leave them in a good state, contracts expiring, players wanting out, bottom end of the table and although you don’t like it, he didn’t win anything when he was there. Where’s the massive success?
First of all everyone knows that levy does everything at spurs . The contracts thing was a by product of Pochettino doing a great job where lots of players who spurs had on very low contracts now became sought after . People said the same thing about klopp and trophies till last year . I would love United to win the cups but if we finish 6th and Ole wins the FA cup then it means nothing to me frankly . Spurs should have gone through a terrible period with the stadium in process but he did a great job keeping them at the top
 

Zlatan 7

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First of all everyone knows that levy does everything at spurs . The contracts thing was a by product of Pochettino doing a great job where lots of players who spurs had on very low contracts now became sought after . People said the same thing about klopp and trophies till last year . I would love United to win the cups but if we finish 6th and Ole wins the FA cup then it means nothing to me frankly . Spurs should have gone through a terrible period with the stadium in process but he did a great job keeping them at the top
Still, where is the massive success?
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Still, where is the massive success?
Keeping spurs in the top 4 with a Cl final at a time when the club's spending was pretty meagre because of the stadium and doing this while playing some great football is a massive success imo . The reason people want him here is because they believe that with proper resources he could build an even better team and compete/win the league title.
 

Sarni

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When assessing his Spurs years I would actually pay more attention to league performance than CL final appearance as they required a huge amount of luck to be in that final. They almost went out in the group stages and only didn’t because Inter bottled it against PSV, at home. They went through with just 8 points, and were massively lucky against both City and Ajax. While being in CL is an achievement, the circumstances were so freaky that it doesn’t really mean that much.

They did very well in the league though. I don’t think his time there, save for this season, would have been any less impressive without that CL final and I don’t think we should even look at that CL final when we make a decision to pursue him or not.
 

patty123

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Bizarre fanboyism for a manager whose only achievements are bagging top 4 for a few seasons by default, because the competition were terrible at the time, and lucking his way to a CL final for which they didn’t bother turning up anyway.

Speaks volumes that at his absolute peak of management, he was soundly beaten to the title by the mighty Leicester.
And dont forget how the Ole out brigade like to remind us he took a team that was already going down, down but rather conveniently forget to mention their demi god left his team in spain rock bottom 9 points of safety when he walked out on them and these are the same people licking the arse of AF for being a winner and also conveniently forget 99% of the fanbase sang "ta ra" to him in 89 and well, whats the chances of the ones who want Ole gone who were of age back then admitting they sang it too ?
 
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Haddock

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Marcus from the football ramble dropped a little hint on the preview show podcast this week that Luke Shaw has been going around telling people that Poch is taking over in the summer but he's been told to shut it now.
 

Shamana

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He didn’t exactly leave them in a good state, contracts expiring, players wanting out, bottom end of the table and although you don’t like it, he didn’t win anything when he was there. Where’s the massive success?
That's because all the best spurs players eventually want to be paid more and play for bigger teams when they become rated. Spurs can't offer wages and trophies like Real Madrid.
 

Amadaeus

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De Brun's contact told him in the same email that we're looking for loan deals which Ole has now confirmed. Hopefully, Poch comes in during the summer.
I m not hopefully about the situation. We have made a lot of bad decisions post Sir Alex and hiring Pochettino would be the best decision we have made. I don’t see it happening as a result.

However, we are building a young energetic squad and Pochettino thrive with such players.He will be the right man to take up this process and turn it into something fruitful. Fourfourtwo just claimed that Pochettino is the third best manager in the premier league in the past decade. Moreover, the independent has a good article that states how United could be passing on a historical opportunity to hire Pochettino who has the best track record in our modern game towards rebuilding a team.


We all know what has to be done. It is up to the board to realize this as well.
 

ranxerox

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I can't believe the words "Brendan Rodgers" have been linked to "Effect". The Brendan Rodgers Effect. And it is used POSITIVELY! Feck me. What's this world coming to.
Sounds like the name of a wannabe studio band
 

Bastian

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Marcus from the football ramble dropped a little hint on the preview show podcast this week that Luke Shaw has been going around telling people that Poch is taking over in the summer but he's been told to shut it now.
:lol:
 

L1nk

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"He was sacked! he left his club in # position!"

It's like some people just completely ignored what happened with Klopp and Dortmund. No, i'm not saying he is Klopp, but there are nuances and context to situations sometimes.