FrankDrebin
Don't call me Shirley
Oh but it is,sort of.DoF isn't exactly a holiday
You just sit in lovely surroundings watching youtube player compilations all day.
Oh but it is,sort of.DoF isn't exactly a holiday
Yeah but Poch isn’t a DOF, he’s first and foremost a coach. Poch will wait till the summer I think and then decide.The idea would be that he takes over in the summer. He needs a rest.
True but he can spend his time recruiting players he wants.Yeah but Poch isn’t a DOF, he’s first and foremost a coach. Poch will wait till the summer I think and then decide.
No; we were waiting for you Random Task.Has anyone taken a serious look at Mauricio Pochettino yet?
P | W | D | L | Win % | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Team | From | To | Record | ||||
9 November 2010 | 2 January 2014 | 125 | 69 | 25 | 31 | 55.2 | |
2 January 2014 | 18 September 2014 | 30 | 9 | 5 | 16 | 30.0 | |
Molde | 21 October 2015 | 28 March 2019 | 118 | 66 | 19 | 33 | 55.9 |
19 December 2018 | Present | 47 | 24 | 10 | 13 | 51.1 | |
Total | 320 | 168 | 59 | 93 | 52.5 |
P | P | W | D | L | Win % | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Team | From | To | Record | ||||
20 January 2009 | 26 November 2012 | 161 | 53 | 38 | 70 | 32.9 | |
18 January 2013 | 27 May 2014 | 60 | 23 | 18 | 19 | 38.3 | |
27 May 2014 | 19 November 2019 | 293 | 159 | 62 | 72 | 54.3 | |
Total | 514 | 235 | 118 | 161 | 45.7 |
One managed in LA Liga and Premier League since he started coaching. The other managed in Norwegian league, with a short stint at a relegation fodder. Don't get how you see they aren't that "far away".Ole's record:
Team From To Record P W D L Win % 9 November 2010 2 January 2014125 69 25 31 55.2 2 January 2014 18 September 201430 9 5 16 30.0 Molde 21 October 2015 28 March 2019118 66 19 33 55.9 19 December 2018 Present47 24 10 13 51.1 Total 320 168 59 93 52.5
Poch's record:
If you take into account the size of the teams, the state of squads when taken over, and the resources available - I don't think Poch is too far ahead (if at all).
Team From To Record P P W D L Win % 20 January 2009 26 November 2012161 53 38 70 32.9 18 January 2013 27 May 201460 23 18 19 38.3 27 May 2014 19 November 2019293 159 62 72 54.3 Total 514 235 118 161 45.7
The one thing Pochettino really doesn't have is a winner's mentality. Sure, he can make his side play pretty football. And sure, he's got a decent tactical mind. But even during 'glory' days, Tottenham were always prone to crumbling under psychological pressure.
For all of Ole's faults, you can't accuse him of that. He's beaten the big teams in England and won titles abroad. Granted, he's only won them in Norway. But in a competetive scenario, it's about having bigger balls and a stronger constitution that the opponent.
Solskjaer has an iron will. Poch hasn't yet proven he does.
You've missed the point.One managed in LA Liga and Premier League since he started coaching. The other managed in Norwegian league, with a short stint at a relegation fodder. Don't get how you see they aren't that "far away".
If Ole was that good why didn't any other PL clubs hire him during these last several years? Would he have got the United job at any different circumstances bar a caretaker after a sacked manager?
I read your post several times and I don't see really anything post what I replayed on. You can't ignore the level of competitions. Should we be interested in the winner of the current Norwegian league season if Ole leaves because he would have won more than Poch too?You've missed the point.
You're still missing the point.I read your post several times and I don't see really anything post what I replayed on. You can't ignore the level of competitions. Should we be interested in the winner of the current Norwegian league season if Ole leaves because he would have won more than Poch too?
New quality managers emerge all the time. Lampard at Chelsea. Ten Hag at Ajax. Some take longer to excel than others.I read your post several times and I don't see really anything post what I replayed on. You can't ignore the level of competitions. Should we be interested in the winner of the current Norwegian league season if Ole leaves because he would have won more than Poch too?
Why do people keep saying he's the third best manager in the world?He's in the top 3 managers on the planet now along with Pep and Klopp.
Had Ole proved otherwise himself ? I mean this point is a solid one when you compare Poch to other top managers around but Ole's both stints at PL with both Cardiff and currently United have nothing to show for in that regard. I mean where is that mental toughness? Once we go down in the result it's pretty much game over for us. We didn't manage a single point from losing position so far this season.You're still missing the point.
The point is about Pochettino's lack of psychological toughness, and his inability to inspire his team (regardless of which league they're in) to perform under pressure.
He's a nearly man.
Could Poch have us in the top 4 without Pogba, Martial, Shaw, Tuanzebe et all after this amount of games. Fair play he done well for Southampton but do you want United to be Southampton? Since we got Martial back things are much better, so instead of your replace the manager shit should you give him a chance when, hopefully, even more come back? Spurs football has been worse than ours this year. West Ham has been the only game we deserved to lose on balance of play by the way, including the fact we should have beat the League leaders while missing half our bloody team. Honestly rewatch every game from this season and you'll see on balance of play that apart from West Ham we 'should' have won them all. How do you think Liverpool would do missing 5 first teamers for 3-4 games?I wonder if last season when mourinho was sacked and Ole was still in Moles, how many would be saying Ole is better suited to us than Poch to take over.
I'd imagine if Moyes was in charge today he'd have his fanboys try and rationalize keeping him on the basis that we owe him a sense of Loyalty to finish the season while marginalizing Poch's achievements because SAF once said in his final interview as manager that vwe should back our manager
We're going to look very stupid next season fighting 6th if we pass on Poch in favour of a rookie who has been getting schooled on how two to play cohesive coordinated football on a regular basis by relegation level managers at bottom feeder clubs
There's a reason why opposition supporters love Ole and it ain't because he's a nice guy.
I asked yesterday if Ole would have been able to do the job Poch did at Southampton or Tottenham and there was no answers just snide remarks and deflection.
Truth is he'd have fallen flat on his face and drowned those clubs into a sea of pure mediocrity and his fan cult would say he didn't receive any backing and they were teams on the slide anyway.
The same shite excuse used for his stint at Cardiff as if he wasn't hired to improve their results but to just be a passenger watching them sink.
Southampton were heading towards relegation when Poch took over. In terrible form and were expected to go down just like Cardiff. Poch could have thrown his hands up in the air, given up before checking off to manage some obscure club in Argentina to pump up his ego and shine his resume with dead trophies.
Instead he got his hands dirty used his talent and coached and improved Southampton not just in performance but with mentality to just do the bare minimum of surviving the drop but I instilling in them the belief that they can play exciting football and finish in the top half of the table breaking their own records in achieving their highest recorded finish.
In comparison, today we have a manager who after taking over a club that finished 2nd the season before last and after spending 150 million, is here telling the fans that the team will have to be at their very best to beat Norwich. You wonder why the players love working under Ole when they only have to achieve these kind of targets to be seen as heroes by the manager?!
It's no wonder we now think its a miracle getting 3 wins over Partisan 2x and Brighton when in the past these were the bare minimum routine expected wins. Now they're seen as evidence of tactical master classes and signs of a great United Johan Cruyff styled modem reinvention of football that we've never witnessed before
Were going to feel that way about many managers if Ole stays for awhile considering they'll all be better than him.Are we going to look at it next year and think. "Maybe we should have appointed Poch after all"? Because Ole is not filling me with confidence at all.
The other poster hasn’t missed the point, they’ve pointed out the clear flaws in the very very weak argument being put forward.You're still missing the point.
The point is about Pochettino's lack of psychological toughness, and his inability to inspire his team (regardless of which league they're in) to perform under pressure.
He's a nearly man.
He's not a failed Spurs manager just like Eddie Howe isn't a failed Bournemouth manager.Could Poch have us in the top 4 without Pogba, Martial, Shaw, Tuanzebe et all after this amount of games. Fair play he done well for Southampton but do you want United to be Southampton? Since we got Martial back things are much better, so instead of your replace the manager shit should you give him a chance when, hopefully, even more come back? Spurs football has been worse than ours this year. West Ham has been the only game we deserved to lose on balance of play by the way, including the fact we should have beat the League leaders while missing half our bloody team. Honestly rewatch every game from this season and you'll see on balance of play that apart from West Ham we 'should' have won them all. How do you think Liverpool would do missing 5 first teamers for 3-4 games?
Poch, while a good manager, has been a disgrace this past year. FFS even Spurs fans wanted him gone and he's their hero of believing that mediocrity matters. The day a failed Spurs manager (who has the new age Shearer in his team by chance) is good enough for United is the day we officially become a mid table club.
We'll keep loitering around mediocrity in the hope that his latest false dawn actually means something.I think the sentimentality around OgS will cost us massively.
Whether we appoint Poch or not, the board needs to do its due diligence & assess every situation as it arises - a covered manager has become available.
If the feeling is Poch is a better manager than OgS we need to go for him regardless of past playing achievements.
You're also missing the point. Well done.The other poster hasn’t missed the point, they’ve pointed out the clear flaws in the very very weak argument being put forward.
He'll prove it at Bayern if he goes there. He's worked absolute miracles on a shoestring at Spurs for 5 seasons. It's obvious he downed tools at Spurs months ago. I'm sure he had his reasons. Broken promises from Levy perhapsWhy do people keep saying he's the third best manager in the world?
This is the worry; i keep reading that OgS ‘deserves’ the season but I don’t see what he’s done to deserve anything other than being replaced if a ‘better’ alternative becomes available; which looks to have happened.We'll keep loitering around mediocrity in the hope that his latest false dawn actually means something.
I think Pochettino would be a great hiring. But I also wouldn't mind us going for the other hyped up young managers who may end up better - Rose etc
Wasn't that the same thing people were saying about Moyes to counter his doubters when he first came on board in 2013?He's worked absolute miracles on a shoestring at Spurs for 5 seasons.
Pochettino is a good manager - but he is nowhere near 3rd in the World. So I really hope no-one is saying that. And if that was the case - why, after 10 years in management are his clubs Espanyol, Southampton and Tottenham ?Why do people keep saying he's the third best manager in the world?
I have never understood why fans want to replace OGS with a manager whose achievement in 10 years or management is reaching the C.L-final and losing, and having one brilliant season where Spurs ended 2nd - and then letting his team implode for whatever reason. If people absolutely want OGS gone, they could at least want to replace him by someone who has actually won anything, and who didn't destroy his team before being sacked.This is the worry; i keep reading that OgS ‘deserves’ the season but I don’t see what he’s done to deserve anything other than being replaced if a ‘better’ alternative becomes available; which looks to have happened.
I’m not particularly pro-Poch either; he’s no guarantee but OgS has shown his many frailties & simply wouldn’t be employed had he not played for us in a golden era.
You keep saying that people are missing the point. So what are you trying to discuss? That Ole has an "iron will" and Poch doesn't? So where was Ole's "iron will" when he relegated Cardiff? Where was the iron will to keep them in the PL? This is just pure speculation and we are both not psychological experts on the matter so I can't even see how this is even a point worth discussing.You're also missing the point. Well done.
Everyone's seeing your point, and deciding it's not a very good point. Pochettino will be in the running for massive jobs in future. At this point, even though I would like him to remain as Man Utd manager, and want him to have a real chance and backing, Ole is the equivalent of a competition winner.You're also missing the point. Well done.
I like how you added Tuanzebe in that list as if he is an essential player when last season he wasn't even featured at all.Could Poch have us in the top 4 without Pogba, Martial, Shaw, Tuanzebe et all after this amount of games. Fair play he done well for Southampton but do you want United to be Southampton? Since we got Martial back things are much better, so instead of your replace the manager shit should you give him a chance when, hopefully, even more come back? Spurs football has been worse than ours this year. West Ham has been the only game we deserved to lose on balance of play by the way, including the fact we should have beat the League leaders while missing half our bloody team. Honestly rewatch every game from this season and you'll see on balance of play that apart from West Ham we 'should' have won them all. How do you think Liverpool would do missing 5 first teamers for 3-4 games?
Poch, while a good manager, has been a disgrace this past year. FFS even Spurs fans wanted him gone and he's their hero of believing that mediocrity matters. The day a failed Spurs manager (who has the new age Shearer in his team by chance) is good enough for United is the day we officially become a mid table club.
Like how I’ve never understood giving a manager more time simply because it’s the right thing to do.I have never understood why fans want to replace OGS with a manager whose achievement in 10 years or management is reaching the C.L-final and losing, and having one brilliant season where Spurs ended 2nd - and then letting his team implode for whatever reason. If people absolutely want OGS gone, they could at least want to replace him by someone who has actually won anything, and who didn't destroy his team before being sacked.
I strongly agree with the bolded parts. Ole is much tougher than people realise and his teams tend to perform on big occasions.Ole's record:
Team From To Record P W D L Win % 9 November 2010 2 January 2014125 69 25 31 55.2 2 January 2014 18 September 201430 9 5 16 30.0 Molde 21 October 2015 28 March 2019118 66 19 33 55.9 19 December 2018 Present47 24 10 13 51.1 Total 320 168 59 93 52.5
Poch's record:
If you take into account the size of the teams, the state of squads when taken over, and the resources available - I don't think Poch is too far ahead (if at all).
Team From To Record P P W D L Win % 20 January 2009 26 November 2012161 53 38 70 32.9 18 January 2013 27 May 201460 23 18 19 38.3 27 May 2014 19 November 2019293 159 62 72 54.3 Total 514 235 118 161 45.7
The one thing Pochettino really doesn't have is a winner's mentality. Sure, he can make his side play pretty football. And sure, he's got a decent tactical mind. But even during 'glory' days, Tottenham were always prone to crumbling under psychological pressure.
For all of Ole's faults, you can't accuse him of that. He's beaten the big teams in England and won titles abroad. Granted, he's only won them in Norway. But in a competetive scenario, it's about having bigger balls and a stronger constitution that the opponent.
Solskjaer has an iron will. Poch hasn't yet proven he does.
I'd say its far more closer to comparing the miracles Klopp has worked at Liverpool, with less spending power than the rest, as opposed to comparing Poch to Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis.Wasn't that the same thing people were saying about Moyes to counter his doubters when he first came on board in 2013?
You're missing the point, because you keep not talking about the point.Everyone's seeing your point, and deciding it's not a very good point. Pochettino will be in the running for massive jobs in future. At this point, even though I would like him to remain as Man Utd manager, and want him to have a real chance and backing, Ole is the equivalent of a competition winner.
Leadership.You keep saying that people are missing the point. So what are you trying to discuss? That Ole has an "iron will" and Poch doesn't? So where was Ole's "iron will" when he relegated Cardiff? Where was the iron will to keep them in the PL? This is just pure speculation and we are both not psychological experts on the matter so I can't even see how this is even a point worth discussing.
How about we discuss this; If both Ole and Poch are sacked right now, which manager is going to get the better job offers? I think we both know the answer to that one.
Top coaches have already commented on Poch's sacking, and stating that Poch will definitely be in contention for top clubs.
Redcafe experts: But did he win a trophy???!!!
That has got to be one of the most blinkered and deluded opinions that I've happened to read on here, but so long as you get to see the big picture.Ole's record:
Team From To Record P W D L Win % 9 November 2010 2 January 2014125 69 25 31 55.2 2 January 2014 18 September 201430 9 5 16 30.0 Molde 21 October 2015 28 March 2019118 66 19 33 55.9 19 December 2018 Present47 24 10 13 51.1 Total 320 168 59 93 52.5
Poch's record:
If you take into account the size of the teams, the state of squads when taken over, and the resources available - I don't think Poch is too far ahead (if at all).
Team From To Record P P W D L Win % 20 January 2009 26 November 2012161 53 38 70 32.9 18 January 2013 27 May 201460 23 18 19 38.3 27 May 2014 19 November 2019293 159 62 72 54.3 Total 514 235 118 161 45.7
The one thing Pochettino really doesn't have is a winner's mentality. Sure, he can make his side play pretty football. And sure, he's got a decent tactical mind. But even during 'glory' days, Tottenham were always prone to crumbling under psychological pressure.
For all of Ole's faults, you can't accuse him of that. He's beaten the big teams in England and won titles abroad. Granted, he's only won them in Norway. But in a competetive scenario, it's about having bigger balls and a stronger constitution that the opponent.
Solskjaer has an iron will. Poch hasn't yet proven he does.
Blinkered in what way? Because I think Pochettino has proven himself to be a better coach than Solskjaer?That has got to be one of the most blinkered and deluded opinions that I've happened to read on here, but so long as you get to see the big picture.
OK, so we should start scouting the winners of Norwegian league, Greek league, Swiss league and those minnows because these managers proved they can go over the line as Ole? Why do you keep dodging this question?Leadership.
If Ole can lead a group of Norwegian League players to the Norwegian title, he's proven he has the leadership and inspirational skills to take a group of men over the line in a competitive scenario.
A top football coach gets a team playing good football.
A top manager manages a team to success in a stressful scenario (this counts for football as much as any other industry).
A top football manager gets a team playing good football and can also lead them to success without bottling it.
Ole is a good manager and has proven it. Pochettino is a good coach. Neither has proven they're top football managers.
People are missing the point because they assume that everybody is a hater/fanboy. I'm neither. I'm looking at the bigger picture.
Those managers have shown they have a winning mentality. It doesn't mean they're good enough football coaches.OK, so we should start scouting the winners of Norwegian league, Greek league, Swiss league and those minnows because these managers proved they can go over the line as Ole? Why do you keep dodging this question?
He's the latest "in thing" on the CAF,Why do people keep saying he's the third best manager in the world?
How did they win a league of multiple games over the course of the season when they aren't enough good coaches? I don't think a manager can win such a trophy by such wanting to win. Either they are good enough and we should scout them for the job from now kn or that these leagues are minnows that you can't build any conclusion upon. Which one is it?Those managers have shown they have a winning mentality. It doesn't mean they're good enough football coaches.
Being a good coach and a good leader are two different things.