A top quality, clinical striker

Edy2

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
183
Don't understand how we've managed to land in such a mess.
Was just doing a few calculations the other day.
Salah Mane Firminho all 3 cost under 45m. That's a UCL winning front 3 for near 130m

Since SAF, we've bought
Mata, AdM, Falcao, Martial, Memphis, Mikhi, Zlatan, Lukaku, Alexis, James
Total 400m and we still don't have anything even close to a front 3.

And remember where we were 5 years ago. We had Rooney RvP Nani Chicha Zaha Kagawa, while Liverpool had Balotelli, Borini, Markovic, Suso, Sterling, Sturridge, Lambert and Coutinho. Just two good players and both of them aren't there anymore.
Liverpool have bought an awful lot of dross over the last 20-25 years for massive money. They have just happened to hit on the right formula the last 5 years of buying young players on an upward trajectory, an approach which it looks like we are also onto now.
 

TRUERED89

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
2,193
Location
England
On Auba, I agree he's best centrally but he'd probably immediately walk onto our RW (despite not being amazing there) and, despite James' amazing start, he'd be the best LW in our squad as well. It's a shame we didn't go for him or any of the other big name attackers that have been moving to the PL over recent seasons.

On your point to the other poster, it's an example of being a bit naive. Had all clubs done what we had and drawn a hard line with agents, football might look very different today but, in reality, it was madness when we allowed our rivals to sign players like the ones you have mentioned simply because they could make agent's happier. We'll likely never know how the obscene sums of money that exchanged hands but we look to have been set back hugely by our transfer activity over the last decade or so. I always wonder, when you read articles about Mancini's double salary, how FFP is ever meant to work because here must be so many ways to pay players, agents, mangers etc without doing it officially.
I remember watching Aguero's debut against Swansea in 2011, he scored a long range beauty, and I thought to myself City are nobodies, no PL's, FAC's, CL's, nadda.. How on earth have they got this elite striker, and how did the juggernaut neighbours called Man United allow this without a single attempt to pry him to the red side!? How many strikers/attackers have we had since 2011? The board have been shambolic from day 1. We could of had world class successful main stays in the team, if they just pulled their finger out, instead of Hazard we got Young, instead of Aguero we promote Welbeck to regular starts, its laughable really..
 
Last edited:

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
3,161
Liverpool have bought an awful lot of dross over the last 20-25 years for massive money. They have just happened to hit on the right formula the last 5 years of buying young players on an upward trajectory, an approach which it looks like we are also onto now.
Exactly, it's just that they got the right manager as well. They also struggled with signings prior to that.

People who think Liverpool are light years ahead have this all wrong. If Liverpool were struggling, Naby keita will have been scrutinised as much as Fred but because they are winning he can fly under the radar.
 

TRUERED89

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
2,193
Location
England
Exactly, it's just that they got the right manager as well. They also struggled with signings prior to that.

People who think Liverpool are light years ahead have this all wrong. If Liverpool were struggling, Naby keita will have been scrutinised as much as Fred but because they are winning he can fly under the radar.
You're right, just painful to see how we've gone round and round in circles for the best part of 7 years! Sacking managers and starting from absolute scratch every time and then abandoning the previous "philosophy" completely.
 

Hawks2008

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
4,218
Location
Melbz
We will not sign a senior striker for the starting 11 while Ole is here. Rashford is the managers favourite, Martial is Woodward's golden boy, and Mason is the next big thing.

There's a reason we didn't seriously try for a Lukaku replacement.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
3,161
You're right, just painful to see how we've gone round and round in circles for the best part of 7 years! Sacking managers and starting from absolute scratch every time and then abandoning the previous "philosophy" completely.
That is the biggest thing for me. Philosophy. We went from a very good counter attacking team with great attacking play under fergie to:

1. No clue Moyes
2. Possession no risk LVG
3. Defend for lives and win 1-0 Jose

All 3 brought in different type of players. We have finally come to a point where not just the team has a philosophy but we are making signings based on that.

Previously, we bought carelessly in Fellaini, Mata, Sanchez, Mikhi.

Now we bought the players to fit a system and still we getting fans complaining.
 

Gandalf

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
777
We will not sign a senior striker for the starting 11 while Ole is here. Rashford is the managers favourite, Martial is Woodward's golden boy, and Mason is the next big thing.

There's a reason we didn't seriously try for a Lukaku replacement.
Only flaw in your argument is that Ole said he wanted a replacement for Lukaku and has recently again stated that we need another striker and we just could not get the one we wanted in the window. Ed may not want to spend the money but it is not accurate to say Ole does not want to sign a senior striker.
 

Hawks2008

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
4,218
Location
Melbz
Only flaw in your argument is that Ole said he wanted a replacement for Lukaku and has recently again stated that we need another striker and we just could not get the one we wanted in the window. Ed may not want to spend the money but it is not accurate to say Ole does not want to sign a senior striker.
Wasn't trying to blame Ole for it, but I get the sense a top striker isn't on the agenda. The path is finally clear for Martial and Rashford which is what many fans and evidently the club wanted. I can see us maybe getting another Zlatan style stop gap but I don't see us targeting a striker in their prime to start week in week out.

At any rate we have bigger fish to fry in midfield, so let's hope the young guys live up to their potential so we can focus on proper additions in the middle.
 

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
3,362
We will not sign a senior striker for the starting 11 while Ole is here. Rashford is the managers favourite, Martial is Woodward's golden boy, and Mason is the next big thing.

There's a reason we didn't seriously try for a Lukaku replacement.
Exactly and it makes sense. Martial is still young and should be given an opportunity as 9. He needs consistent run as a forward.

While I am okay in not signing a Lukaku replacement, we should have signed one more attacker. Still think James is too young and Rashford is very inconsistent.
 

Hawks2008

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
4,218
Location
Melbz
Exactly and it makes sense. Martial is still young and should be given an opportunity as 9. He needs consistent run as a forward.

While I am okay in not signing a Lukaku replacement, we should have signed one more attacker. Still think James is too young and Rashford is very inconsistent.
I don't know, I feel like Martial is more a scorer of great goals than a great goalscorer if you get what I means. Don't think Martial or Rashford are prolific enough and after 4-5 years as first teamers and now undisputed starters I don't think there's any excuses for them not to be. Young yes but they aren't kids anymore.

Aside from not signing striker the club also made the criminal decision not to sign a right winger or creative midfielder. Not enough creativity is as big a problem as lacking end product.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
4,353
I remember watching Aguero's debut against Swansea in 2011, he scored a long range beauty, and I thought to myself City are nobodies, no PL's, FAC's, CL's, nadda.. How on earth have they got this elite striker, and how did the juggernaut neighbours called Man United allow this without a single attempt to pry him to the red side!? How many strikers/attackers have we had since 2011? The board have been shambolic from day 1. We could of had world class successful main stays in the team, if they just pulled their finger out, instead of Hazard we got Young, instead of Aguero we promote Welbeck to regular starts, its laughable really..
The thing is, I would have sympathy for the board if their hands were tied - at the end of the day, we want the club to stay healthy financially and replacing CR7 with Valencia, as an example, is sometimes is needed. The issue is that's clearly not the case here, we've outspent everyone bar City, paid a WR fee for Pogba, made Sanchez the highest ever PL player and most damming for me, been seemingly handing out fat contracts willy nilly to players like Lingard, Jones etc who should never be first XI and likely not even bench players. It's mismanagement of the highest degree.
 

f_to_z

Full Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
297
I agree, we totally lack goal scorers. Wether its a clinical striker or a winger or someone in midfield. Goals are hard to come by.

Our last season with Sir Alex he just bought a clinical striker RVP and we won the league. Right now if we had Luis Saha or even Chicharito they would be an upgrade striker to what we have.

Rashford, Martial, Lukaku are not even close to being clinical strikers. They have their strengths, but they are not as a goal scoring striker.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
19,571
Location
Birmingham
he isn't inexperienced. it's not as if he's 17 and only played a handful of games. he is not an instinctive goal scorer
He is quite inexperienced when it comes to playing as a number 9. He's more or less been on the wing for us since he joined. At Monaco, he did a bit of both.

The lads 23 and still learning.
 

DSG

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
443
Location
A Whale’s Vagina
I don't know, I feel like Martial is more a scorer of great goals than a great goalscorer if you get what I means. Don't think Martial or Rashford are prolific enough and after 4-5 years as first teamers and now undisputed starters I don't think there's any excuses for them not to be. Young yes but they aren't kids anymore.

Aside from not signing striker the club also made the criminal decision not to sign a right winger or creative midfielder. Not enough creativity is as big a problem as lacking end product.
Spot on. We need a 28-35 per year goal scorer. Then the Martial / Rashford contributions are gravy.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
18,253
There's a real dearth of quality strikers.
 

mitchmouse

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
7,913
He is quite inexperienced when it comes to playing as a number 9. He's more or less been on the wing for us since he joined. At Monaco, he did a bit of both.

The lads 23 and still learning.
23 in football is not like a 23-year-old trainee doctor. he simply is not an out-and-out goal scorer. compare him to let's say Ole...
 

L1nk

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
1,263
There's a real dearth of quality strikers.
I genuinely think we should of gone for Timo Werner, whilst he was pretty much available, he's currently got 5 in 4 this season, and I think he's only going to get better, on top of his electric pace too.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
18,253
I genuinely think we should of gone for Timo Werner, whilst he was pretty much available, he's currently got 5 in 4 this season, and I think he's only going to get better, on top of his electric pace too.
I'm not convinced by him but perhaps he develops himself further this season.
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
398
I wonder if it would be worth moving for Mitrovic as he offers physical presence and he is a good age.
I would think there could be a deal there as Fulham are in the second tier and I am sure the player would be interested if we let it be known that we are keen on him.
 

Pierluigi Casiraghi

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 13, 2019
Messages
182
I wonder if it would be worth moving for Mitrovic as he offers physical presence and he is a good age.
I would think there could be a deal there as Fulham are in the second tier and I am sure the player would be interested if we let it be known that we are keen on him.
Would rather play one of our 24 centre backs there
 

mariachi-19

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
15,659
Location
I may be the devil, but i'm not a monster
There's a real dearth of quality strikers.
Pretty much this, but good luck telling Redcafe that we can just sign a replacement for Lukaku. It seems like this focus on tiki taka high press shit has seen a lot of good strikers have their wings clipped because they need to be more involved in the build up play.

When was the last time we saw an off the last man striker like Owen or Hernandez? Even finding the likes of a prime RVN, RVP or Lewandowski are near impossible.
 

Mr PG

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
761
Im impressed with James and wonder if he could do a 'Ronaldo' or 'Henry' and convert to a striker. He could be given a chance in the cups. I would also like to see Greenwood given a run in the middle. Rashford could be moved to the right.
Sky is the limit for james. I remember when Bale was a left back nobody thought too much of him and whoever meant to go on loan.
 
Last edited:

Mr PG

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
761
Im impressed with James and wonder if he could do a 'Ronaldo' or 'Henry' and convert to a striker. He could be given a chance in the cups. I would also like to see Greenwood given a run in the middle. Rashford could be moved to the right.
I agree here. James will eventually end up a striker. His shot accuracy is very good and his dexterity in small spaces is better than say Rashford.
 

SambaBoy

Full Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
3,313
There's a lack of top quality strikers out there at the moment. Even less so, that are available or worth signing.

There's a lot of question marks over Martial as a #9 but let's see how he does. He's started the season well, hopefully he will become more accustomed to playing up there and bang them in. His off the ball movement was non-existent on the wing but seems when up top, he makes more dangerous runs. He just needs to worth on his movement in and around the 6 yard box, we will have a lot of balls flying across if James is too feature consistently and as seen at Southampton, we had no-one to attack them. Rashford will only score wonder goals or if the ball lands on his foot, his movement was terrible that game.
 

Martialfc

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
97
I feel that Martial does have talent inside him that could elevate his game to become a top quality striker. I’ve said since day one though that I don’t think Rashford is good enough... every time I watch him play I just think he’s a headless chicken who has no idea where to be, what to do and how to score. I really hope Greenwood is given a chance as from what I’ve seen he seems to have a bit more quality than Rashford. I guess time will tell..
 

poleglass red

Full Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
1,937
I think we will give Martial a chance to make the centre forward position his at least until Jan anyway. My concern with Martial is like Pogba, the ability is undoubtedly there but the application isn't always there.Problem is also, any kind of high press is difficult, when 2 of your 4 attacking players won't press.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
19,571
Location
Birmingham
you asked me to compare him to non out-and-out scorers

My point was that because Martial hasn't been consistently played as a striker, especially for us, he is still learning the position.

You then said:

23 in football is not like a 23-year-old trainee doctor. he simply is not an out-and-out goal scorer. compare him to let's say Ole...
In which I replied:

Compare him to someone who has not been consistency played as a striker.
You mentioned Giggs, Beckham, etc, so I said neither were they out and out goalscorers. So you kind of proved my point.
 

HowieC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
84
There's a real dearth of quality strikers.
Agreed. It seems not long ago when Higuain, Suarez, Benzema, Lewa, RVP, Cavani, Zlatan and many others were all playing at or near their primes.

Only Kane and Aguero (maybe Auba too) seem to stand out as no. 9s now. The likes of Icardi don't seem to compare.
 

mitchmouse

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
7,913
My point was that because Martial hasn't been consistently played as a striker, especially for us, he is still learning the position.

You then said:



In which I replied:



You mentioned Giggs, Beckham, etc, so I said neither were they out and out goalscorers. So you kind of proved my point.
and yet they scored lots of goals... which is my point. Or have I totally misunderstood. You asked for players who were not out-and-out forwards who scored goals: I gave you Becks, Scholes and Giggs...