A top quality, clinical striker

[R'hllor]

Do people just copy a certain players from the non United team they watched and paste it among our rotten dross and think thats a solution. I dont watch Inter at all so cant say that i know anything about Icardi but reading posts of people who seems watched him a bit, do you think we can even feed players like him?

Similar to players on other position, lets say Sancho, do people honestly believe that he will replicate his performances from Dortmund with us by just putting him in the side? Do people even watch how we play this game called football?

Yesterday we needed a goal for 3pts, Chong came in, all buzzing, in full pace, made one smart run in the box, came back from offside, sneaked out on the right alone, twice, while in the meantime, our seniors, the tested ones, passing around, moving like snails, clueless what to even do with a ball in final third.

Lets not kid ourselfs, how many times we saw a new signing looking good in first few games for people to hype up with "this how world class player looks and difference it makes for a team" lines. Still remember Matic thread and posts in it after West Ham game, for example.

As long majority or good number of those rotten fecks are in club, i fear things wont improve much on footballing side, sure we can force our way into it but there is higher chance of us watching version of Smalling targeting his mate and attempting to hit it with a long range shot, after which we see Pogba saying "Woah, woah".

 

[Fer]

Which players do you rate higher?

Piatek vs Jovic
Richarlison vs Moussa Dembele
Félix vs Dybala
Lukaku vs Icardi

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Do people just copy a certain players from the non United team they watched and paste it among our rotten dross and think thats a solution. I dont watch Inter at all so cant say that i know anything about Icardi but reading posts of people who seems watched him a bit, do you think we can even feed players like him?

Similar to players on other position, lets say Sancho, do people honestly believe that he will replicate his performances from Dortmund with us by just putting him in the side? Do people even watch how we play this game called football?

Yesterday we needed a goal for 3pts, Chong came in, all buzzing, in full pace, made one smart run in the box, came back from offside, sneaked out on the right alone, twice, while in the meantime, our seniors, the tested ones, passing around, moving like snails, clueless what to even do with a ball in final third.

Lets not kid ourselfs, how many times we saw a new signing looking good in first few games for people to hype up with "this how world class player looks and difference it makes for a team" lines. Still remember Matic thread and posts in it after West Ham game, for example.

As long majority or good number of those rotten fecks are in club, i fear things wont improve much on footballing side, sure we can force our way into it but there is higher chance of us watching version of Smalling targeting his mate and attempting to hit it with a long range shot, after which we see Pogba saying "Woah, woah".

Any natural, competent right winger/right forward would instantly improve United by serious margins. Its not even debatable. Our right flank is dead.

 

[Jacob]

Cavani 10 years ago.

 

[R'hllor]

Any natural, competent right winger/right forward would instantly improve United by serious margins. Its not even debatable. Our right flank is dead.

I agree, our right side is something else alright, not sure i have ever seen anything similar in other teams. Sure, your sides can be low on quality and bad but dead, dead, nope.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Or we could seek to add creators with good finishing and/or finishers with some creativity? I feel that your last sentence would be our death.

You seriously believe a work horse striker of the likes Suarez , Diego Costa or prime Drogba would would be the death of us? Really?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I agree, our right side is something else alright, not sure i have ever seen anything similar in other teams. Sure, your sides can be low on quality and bad but dead, dead, nope.

Exactly. That is why us fluking a transfer like Sancho would elevate us by force. He'd not even have to be at his current Dortmund level consistently to instantly become our most crucial player. For he'd instantly be our ONLY threat down the right


All our other threats are central and left sided ones

 

[JPRouve]

You seriously believe a work horse striker of the likes Suarez , Diego Costa or prime Drogba would would be the death of us? Really?

We lack creativity and skills, that's where in my opinion our lack of consistency mainly comes from, so workhorses would be the worst thing for us in the last third. Also I don't consider Luis Suarez a workhorse, he is very complete and creates for others on a regular basis.

 

[SER19]

The way Vardy plays means at 32 he’s already on borrowed time. Shame because he’s got a bit about it him and Old Trafford could have been a stage that wouldn’t have daunted him.

Maybe a short term Larsson type signing in a year or two when his contract expires.

Yeah hes actually older than I thought. A year or 18 months while greenwood hopefully develops would be fine. I'm exhausted watching defenders coast against us.

 

[Invictus]

Agree with the arguments of @adexkola and co. You could put someone as clinical as prime Van Nistelrooy in this team, and while he would score more than our current lot because he was quite simply the better striker and scorer and offered more precise movement/hold-up play, his effectiveness in front of goal will go down, in relative terms, because of the inadequate composition and effectiveness of the supporting cast (from a structural and qualitative standpoint). It's like handing Tizona to a somewhat unskilled swordsman — the sword itself is better than whatever he previously had, but he's still not going to be good enough in a skirmish against genuine masters.

• The most fundamental thing we need to improve, IMO, is the team's structure and our ethos wrt. coherent movement and passing (which does hark back to the days of disorganized Zombie Football). Doing that on the training field costs no money, but until those aspects are addressed appropriately, and we implement a more well engineered and well executed system, most offensive signings will struggle to recreate their peak form (better individuals will improve us, but not to a sufficiently large degree on their own).
• Then we need to add better (and more consistent) creators beside Pogba — or at least players that can support him effectively, because right now, our central creativity tends to nosedive when he's not on song and too big of a burden is placed on his shoulders. For what it's worth, Pogba needs to improve and become more consistent, too, but he needs more help from complementary players around him in central midfield.
• Then we need to figure out if we need a clinical striker (whose game in predicated on goalscoring above all else) or an industrious, well-rounded forward who can bring our wide forwards into favorable attacking positions and act a facilitator à la Firmino (who is intrinsically more suitable for Salah and Mané than someone like Icardi) — or indeed someone in between (these type of players are rare and highly-valued). And make signings accordingly. This will be key because the improvement of our flanks is going to be inextricably linked with the nature of the center forward, too (creativity from wider areas has been a big issue for a very long time and might require major surgery).

Addressing the sputtering nature of our attack is like taking down a many-headed serpent, I'm afraid — there's no fix-all panacea, and the management will have to simultaneously focus on a lot of different things to make a significant improvement, because signing players with certain characteristics (and specific strengths) without a sound working ideology or complementary players in place is going to backfire, and is what led us to the current mess (and perpetuated the vicious cycles of the post-Fergie period).

 

[sp_107]

It goes beyond just buying a good striker. Agüero would struggle to get 20 goals in all competitions in this team. Conversely if you put Lukaku in a better side just watch him rack up the goals once again. This team is dump from top to bottom, no single player will turn it all around.

You are taking too much sense mate

 

[Cassidy]

No.

I'm saying that the improvement you'll get from plopping Aguero or Kane in this current squad is miniscule compared to the improvement you'll get from improving the team's ability to create chances from wide and deep, even with Rashford and Lukaku up top.

Look at the conversion rates of the top strikers compared to ours. They are putting chances away at about the same rates. They just have more chances to convert, which means more goals. We strain to create 2 good chances in a game.

And you’re missing the obvious point that part of the reason we struggle to create is that our forwards line lacks movement and fluidity. Partly due to having 2 of the most static forwards in the league in Lukaku and Martial.

Almost as if we didnt win the league with RVP as a forward in a team that didnt create a lot.

Not saying we don't need to improve the rest of the side. However anyone who thinks the forwards themselves are not massively involved in the reason we dom’t create enough is delusional

 

[Pav1878]

For me we need a striker who can create space for the wide players (whoever they may be). Firmino does it at Liverpool For example and it works really well

 

[wolvored]

Hopefully we play split strikers. Would be a big ask for Greenwood to play up top on his own.

Yes but who would be the other one? None of them fill me with much hope.

 

[roonster09]

I recognize the kind of striker Icardi is, I know we have more problems than a lack of Thierry Henry, and I also rate Lukaku. Obviously we would need to fix our creativity and tactical issues to an extent, but I think Icardi would be a top option to lead the line and provide some clutchness which I feel is lacking in the team.

If we are going to sign a CF then we have to sign someone who contributes more than just scoring. Playing with Icardi is like playing with 10 players, barely contributes anything in the build up play. He is isolated a lot for Inter, he will face similar problems here. If we build a fluid team like City and Liverpool did then he will mess up attacks with his limitations.

On top of that, we will have to pay his release clause to sign him and shit loads of money on wages, if we are wasting so much money, it's better to blow it on someone like Jovic who looked very good this season.

 

[Bestietom]

A prolific striker would help but is far from the solution. We need a lot of strengthening all over the pitch.

We need 3 Defenders 2 CB's and a RB.
We need 3 Midfielders ( Fred ,Herrera, Matic, and Mata out) We will need another if Pogba goes.
We need a RW and possibly a LW if we can get Martial and Sanchez out.
Then we need that prolific striker.

 

[wolvored]

According to the press hes trying to buy Dembele. The one that played for Celtic. Hes scored quite a few for them, (Its Scotland I know), but has scored roughly 1 in 2 for Lyon. Hes only 22 as well. I havent seen him play. Is he any good for us?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We lack creativity and skills, that's where in my opinion our lack of consistency mainly comes from, so workhorses would be the worst thing for us in the last third. Also I don't consider Luis Suarez a workhorse, he is very complete and creates for others on a regular basis.

That is because you have assumed wrongly that work horses are strictly players with low on the ball skill and creativity.

If you compared Suarez or Diego Costa to Ruud Van Nistelrooy for example. They are work horses.


Our biggest problem is we lack a consistent top end skill performer with that level of work rate and movement in attack


Alexis should have been that. But as per our recent luck he tanked badly.

And having only Pogba as a creative midfielder in the entire squad and a dead right flank has just plain exasperated the issue.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Madrid need a top quality ST as well, Barca are in the same situation.

We need to offload Rom first and then see what rhe big clubs do not get and pick from those.

 

[Cassidy]

Madrid need a top quality ST as well, Barca are in the same situation.

We need to offload Rom first and then see what rhe big clubs do not get and pick from those.

Or we should act quickly and not sit around waiting for other teams to make their move first.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Ole will try and play ‘Rashy’ into form. Totally disregarding that this actually is his form.

Well he only has 1 game to do it.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Or we should act quickly and not sit around waiting for other teams to make their move first.

Let's hope that is the case. Considering our MO though, I'm not that optimistic.

 

[Cassidy]

Let's hope that is the case. Considering our MO though, I'm not that optimistic.

Agree

 

[NinjaFletch]

Except its not really true is it. Plenty of chances to kill Chelsea in the first 45, wasn't Lukaku put through on goals and fecked up his touch. We don't create enough but our forwards also don't bury their chances.

2/3 chances to be up vs Barca as well, Arsenal in the league, the game that would have likely got us top 4. 2/3 chances, one fecking sitter as well to go in front before we even conceded. We cannot deny that our strikers are shite, and also creating chances requires movement in the forward line and quite frankly we don't have any of it if Rashford isn't on the field, or Lingard.

Martial and Lukakus movement is a complete joke.

Of course it's true. You've simply forgotten how many chances top sides normally create.

Lukaku's lack of movement doesn't help when he plays (and movement in general has been a bug bear of mine for years) but if we had two outright quality wide players on the left and the right we'd be in a far better state. Martial is part of the problem, not the solution, agreed.

 

[JPRouve]

That is because you have assumed wrongly that work horses are strictly players with low on the ball skill and creativity.

If you compared Suarez or Diego Costa to Ruud Van Nistelrooy for example. They are work horses.


Our biggest problem is we lack a consistent top end skill performer with that level of work rate and movement in attack


Alexis should have been that. But as per our recent luck he tanked badly.

And having only Pogba as a creative midfielder in the entire squad and a dead right flank has just plain exasperated the issue.

Your first sentence is incorrect and I don't even know why you would make that assumption. For me workhorse is a role not a matter of skill, Suarez is a complete striker that will adjust his role depending on needs sometimes he is creative other times he is industrious while Van Nistelrooy was a pure finisher. My point is that, that's not the role that we are lacking, we lack skill and creativity which matches with your last point.

Someone like Suarez would be great but not as a workhorse what would make him great is his ability to create and score, he may not be a great creator but he is serviceable in that aspect and we sorely miss that.

 

[kouroux]

Hard to think of anyone out there who is on RvPs level and not starting to think about retirement plans. Icardi is possibly the best one, and Jovic is finishing up his first really good season.




He doesn't drop and pick the ball up but he has far better control and hold up play than Lukaku.

Yes but without proper creativity, we'd find it tough to feee him prorperly. He'd be like Higuain, disappearing for large portions of the game

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Stick with what we have right now, we will just upgrade the service, if the current strikers still doesn’t work then hopefully Greenwood can step in taking the role.

 

[Cassidy]

Of course it's true. You've simply forgotten how many chances top sides normally create.

Lukaku's lack of movement doesn't help when he plays (and movement in general has been a bug bear of mine for years) but if we had two outright quality wide players on the left and the right we'd be in a far better state. Martial is part of the problem, not the solution, agreed.

Again I never said getting better wide players wouldn't help. However if you think we wouldnt be better with better quality forwards with better movement and finishing then fine

 

[Schneckerl]

According to sofascore Rashford has 12 goals and 17 big chances missed.

Aguero 24/14
Sterling 22/9
Mane 24/21
Salah 26/21
Kane 22/15
Hazard 16/9
Aubameyang 25/27
Lacazette 17/5

For EPL and CL/EL combined.

Messi 46/14.

 

[11101]

Yes but without proper creativity, we'd find it tough to feee him prorperly. He'd be like Higuain, disappearing for large portions of the game

Creativity requires movement. We do have some creative players but it's impossible to pick a pass if everyone is stood still. Icardi has much better movement than any of our current forwards. Rashford makes some good runs and as a result when he plays he always gets a couple of clear chances. He usually misses them, but a player like Icardi doesn't.

Either way, i'd happily swap him for Lukaku. Anything is better than the ball bouncing 20 yards back towards our own goal whenever its played to our striker.

 

[Cassidy]

According to sofascore Rashford has 12 goals and 17 big chances missed.

Aguero 24/14
Sterling 22/9
Mane 24/21
Salah 26/21
Kane 22/15
Hazard 16/9
Aubameyang 25/27
Lacazette 17/5

For EPL and CL/EL combined.

Messi 46/14.

So he one of few players to have scored less than they have missed, go figure.

What about Lukaku?

 

[Sandikan]

It goes beyond just buying a good striker. Agüero would struggle to get 20 goals in all competitions in this team. Conversely if you put Lukaku in a better side just watch him rack up the goals once again. This team is dump from top to bottom, no single player will turn it all around.

That's simply not true when pogba as a midfielder has 16.

 

[sparx99]

It’s not an either/or situation is it though. We need to make note chances and we need to be more clinical. At the moment the pressure on our strikers to take the few chances they get is huge. You can see them wilt in those moments.

We have nobody at LB,RB, LW or RW making chances. Meanwhile Liverpool’s full backs have more assists than Beckham and Scholes did during the treble season.

Most of our best form came during the start of Ole’s run when Rashford, Martial and Pogba were all on a hot streak. They were taking pressure off of each other.

 

[Al-T]

Munas Dabbur? Joshua King?
We might be shite, but we don’t want to become Brighton or something.

Then again, only Pogba has scored more Premier League goals this season than 35 year old Glenn Murray.

Maybe we are already there!

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Might not be big names but Vardy and Ayoze Perez would both add a lot to our forward options.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

According to the press hes trying to buy Dembele. The one that played for Celtic. Hes scored quite a few for them, (Its Scotland I know), but has scored roughly 1 in 2 for Lyon. Hes only 22 as well. I havent seen him play. Is he any good for us?

he has superior movement and first touch to Bolingoli at least. I still feel though he is raw like Rashford.

 

[JPRouve]

he has superiorsuperior movent and first touch to Bolingoli at least. I still feel though he is raw like Rashford.

Have you seen him play regularly? I agree about his rawness but his attributes are very interesting, I know very little about his character though.

 

[lRed]

I guess we are not a lot believing in Rashy ey.
I'm sure if we build right in midfield and get the right players on the wings, he could be the striker we need, he showed us what he was capable of when OGS came in.

I also think we should have a proper n°10 or someone in the style of Rooney, or prime Mata. Someone who could be the player behind the striker, class passer, clinical in the final third. We saw that we don't have the players to play 433, maybe someone like Bruno Fernandes or James Maddison could be the right choice.

 

[kouroux]

Creativity requires movement. We do have some creative players but it's impossible to pick a pass if everyone is stood still. Icardi has much better movement than any of our current forwards. Rashford makes some good runs and as a result when he plays he always gets a couple of clear chances. He usually misses them, but a player like Icardi doesn't.

Either way, i'd happily swap him for Lukaku. Anything is better than the ball bouncing 20 yards back towards our own goal whenever its played to our striker.

We don't have creative players, Pogba and Mata only are those type of players. Our squad is devoid of great passers between the lines or great crossers (our full backs are terrible)

 

[Woodenlung]

With the money we have to spend we should be looking to overhaul our entire defence and midfield. Make us hard to breakdown at the back and have players comfortable on the ball to build attacks. Currently our defenders shit it when asked to actually do their job. Then they shit it even more when asked to build possession.

A hot shot striker will do nothing when you consider we can't even keep a lead.