[romufc]

The frustrating thing with our fans is they keep looking for someone to blame for a goal.

AWB was tired and it was his first game back. Agreed you can go and close the ball down quicker, but coming to the end of a game it is harder, saying that out of 10 crosses one of them is bound to get in.

The CB's should be dealing with that cross.

We can't keep pointing fingers to individuals for every goal we concede.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The frustrating thing with our fans is they keep looking for someone to blame for a goal.

AWB was tired and it was his first game back. Agreed you can go and close the ball down quicker, but coming to the end of a game it is harder, saying that out of 10 crosses one of them is bound to get in.

The CB's should be dealing with that cross.

We can't keep pointing fingers to individuals for every goal we concede.

It's not his fault, it's our collective teams fault (and I include Ole in this) for not spotting where the problem was (as it wasn't the first time Robertson got that sort of space) and thus allowing it to continue.

That Williams sub should have come much earlier, and that's on Ole for me.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Robertson and TAA were getting space lot before they scored the goal. They pinged crosses but was cleared away easily. Williams was ready to come on after they scored and that was to kill the time. If Ole was concerned about Robertson getting time then he would have brought him on lot before when we dropped deep and Ole asked team to play narrow defensively. Which means FBs will be tucked in and midfielders will be tracking the wide positions.

No. TAA got closed down a lot which is why he struggled to deliver good cross in the match.

Stay alert with your man & not giving them space is basic football, it’s not something that Ole needs to waste his early substitutions.

 

[roonster09]

No. TAA got closed down a lot which is why he struggled to deliver good cross in the match.

Stay alert with your man & not giving them space is basic football, it’s not something that Ole needs to waste his early substitutions.

So how is FB defending FB is staying with his man? If anything FB will be defending wingers and the defending team wingers will track back attacking team FBs. Apart from all that, following tactics set by manager is the most basic thing in football. When manager wants his team to play narrow with FBs tucked in, that's what they have to do.

 

[Player Red]

The frustrating thing with our fans is they keep looking for someone to blame for a goal.

AWB was tired and it was his first game back. Agreed you can go and close the ball down quicker, but coming to the end of a game it is harder, saying that out of 10 crosses one of them is bound to get in.

The CB's should be dealing with that cross.

We can't keep pointing fingers to individuals for every goal we concede.

True, the ball bounced twice in the box before Lallana got to it. CBs should have been dealing with that all day.

 

[11101]

It's not his fault, it's our collective teams fault (and I include Ole in this) for not spotting where the problem was (as it wasn't the first time Robertson got that sort of space) and thus allowing it to continue.

That Williams sub should have come much earlier, and that's on Ole for me.

The Williams sub was purely to waste time, nothing more.

Do you really think Ole would give a youth player their PL debut against Liverpool and expect them to actually do anything?

 

[ivaldo]

It's not his fault, it's our collective teams fault (and I include Ole in this) for not spotting where the problem was (as it wasn't the first time Robertson got that sort of space) and thus allowing it to continue.

That Williams sub should have come much earlier, and that's on Ole for me.

It wasn’t a problem though, in fact, I’m sure it was part of the plan. Fergie deployed this tactic all the while, particularly against Arsenal. We defended narrow and forced teams out wide. Liverpool were whacking in crosses to our three centre backs all afternoon without causing us any issues. It didn’t exploit a weakness, we just dealt very poorly with a cross that should never have caused us issues.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The Williams sub was purely to waste time, nothing more.

Do you really think Ole would give a youth player their PL debut against Liverpool and expect them to actually do anything?

I know it was, I'm saying that would actually have been a useful sub to make earlier instead of just wasting time.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It wasn’t a problem though, in fact, I’m sure it was part of the plan. Fergie deployed this tactic all the while, particularly against Arsenal. We defended narrow and forced teams out wide. Liverpool were whacking I’m crosses to our three centre backs all afternoon without causing us any issues. It didn’t exploit a weakness, we just dealt very poorly with a cross that should never have caused us issues.

If it was a plan, then why were closing down TAA far more effectively?

Unless we think TAA is a far more threatening crosser then Robertson, which would be weird.

 

[11101]

I know it was, I'm saying that would actually have been a useful sub to make earlier instead of just wasting time.

Maybe a year from now when hes found his feet here. Not against Liverpool in the league on his debut.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

So how is FB defending FB is staying with his man? If anything FB will be defending wingers and the defending team wingers will track back attacking team FBs. Apart from all that, following tactics set by manager is the most basic thing in football. When manager wants his team to play narrow with FBs tucked in, that's what they have to do.

You never play football in an actual comp aren’t you. It’s not about FB should be defending against only wingers. They are not a robot! It’s about awareness of danger.

He was playing wing back in back 5. There is no reason for him to drift inside like a centre back when he is not marking anyone. Because Lindelof got the winger. He is a wing back and our only wide man on the pitch with Young in 2nd half. If there is a man who should close down and be aware of Robertson is Bissaka’s job. If he’s not in the position of doing the task to stay alert with Robertson, best thing is to communicate with other player like Lindelof or Pereira.

Both Young & Fred could do it against TAA. While it’s opposite on the other flanks.

 

[roonster09]

You never play football in an actual comp aren’t you. It’s not about FB should be defending against only wingers. They are not a robot! It’s about awareness of danger.

He was playing wing back in back 5. There is no reason for him to drift inside like a centre back when he is not marking anyone. Because Lindelof got the winger. He is a wing back and our only wide man on the pitch with Young in 2nd half. If there is a man who should close down and be aware of Robertson is Bissaka’s job. If he’s not in the position of doing the task to stay alert with Robertson, best thing is to communicate with other player like Lindelof or Pereira.

Both Young & Fred could do it against TAA. While it’s opposite on the other flanks.

fecking hell, when you start your posts with bs like that, then don't even bother. For a guy who probably played in actual comp, you really don't understand football if you believe what you just typed. You don't have to mark player to be in the box, you are defending the pace and completely nullifying the central part of the pitch, which leaves opposition team just to cross and hope. That's why teams when they defend deep, they defend narrowly to cut down the spaces between the defenders.

AWB is not outside the box to block the cross as we parked the bus and every defender was in the box defending.

TAA played many crosses in the second half and late in the game, only difference was every cross was cleared by the defenders. Someone even posted the difference in FBs crossing between first half and second half, for both TAA and Robertson, you can check those too.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This is the tweet, TAA played many crosses, we defended well and cleared those.

 

[Adam-Utd]

You never play football in an actual comp aren’t you. It’s not about FB should be defending against only wingers. They are not a robot! It’s about awareness of danger.

He was playing wing back in back 5. There is no reason for him to drift inside like a centre back when he is not marking anyone. Because Lindelof got the winger. He is a wing back and our only wide man on the pitch with Young in 2nd half. If there is a man who should close down and be aware of Robertson is Bissaka’s job. If he’s not in the position of doing the task to stay alert with Robertson, best thing is to communicate with other player like Lindelof or Pereira.

Both Young & Fred could do it against TAA. While it’s opposite on the other flanks.

As I explained on the previous page, Pereira was closer to Robertson and they both hesitated thinking each other was going to close him down. by the time Pereira started moving it was too late. The swap of formation to tuck Pereira into a RM position caused the confusion, before that it was clearly AWB's job to shut the flank.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Maybe a year from now when hes found his feet here. Not against Liverpool in the league on his debut.

I don't think Ole has a problem with chucking in youngsters - but if not him then he still should have done something about it.

Could have thrown Phil bloody Jones on for all I care.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

As I explained on the previous page, Pereira was closer to Robertson and they both hesitated thinking each other was going to close him down. by the time Pereira started moving it was too late. The swap of formation to tuck Pereira into a RM position caused the confusion, before that it was clearly AWB's job to shut the flank.

Like I said before Bissaka had no reason to drift inside like a centre back. Young wasn’t even doing the same thing. If Bissaka isn’t in the situation of watching his man then that’s where he needs to communicate with other to cover it. Which is why I said both Pereira & Bissaka need to share the blame for the cross to even happened.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

As I explained on the previous page, Pereira was closer to Robertson and they both hesitated thinking each other was going to close him down. by the time Pereira started moving it was too late. The swap of formation to tuck Pereira into a RM position caused the confusion, before that it was clearly AWB's job to shut the flank.

Watching it again I do think its Andreas that should have been the one out to him... As McT had moved across so Andreas was actually marking/doing nothing.

Problem was on the left we had a bit more experience in Young/Fred sorting out the threat on the right flank... we didn't really have that communication on the left.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

fecking hell, when you start your posts with bs like that, then don't even bother. For a guy who probably played in actual comp, you really don't understand football if you believe what you just typed. You don't have to mark player to be in the box, you are defending the pace and completely nullifying the central part of the pitch, which leaves opposition team just to cross and hope. That's why teams when they defend deep, they defend narrowly to cut down the spaces between the defenders.

AWB is not outside the box to block the cross as we parked the bus and every defender was in the box defending.

TAA played many crosses in the second half and late in the game, only difference was every cross was cleared by the defenders. Someone even posted the difference in FBs crossing between first half and second half, for both TAA and Robertson, you can check those too.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This is the tweet, TAA played many crosses, we defended well and cleared those.

When did I even ever say that?

It’s basic principle when you are playing, You don’t just ball watching in the game. In other word, you don’t let players who can create or score to stay free and given too much space. Communication is important if you are not in the position or condition of sticking with your man.

Closing down doesn’t mean you are blocking their crossing or passing. Closing down mean you are giving player difficulty to deliver the ball by not giving them enough space and time and that’s why TAA’s crosses were easily to defend.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Can we all just agree that everyone has at some point played football and understands football as they post on a football forum about a football game that they probably watched?

Cheers.

 

[roonster09]

When did I even ever say that?

It’s basic principle when you are playing, You don’t just ball watching in the game. In other word, you don’t let players who can create or score to stay free and given too much space. Communication is important if you are not in the position or condition of sticking with your man.

Closing down doesn’t mean you are blocking their crossing or passing. Closing down mean you are giving player difficulty to deliver the ball by not giving them enough space and time and that’s why TAA’s crosses were easily to defend.

Mental gymnastics has hit it's peak now. It was easy to defend because those were cleared off by the first defender, Robertson cross resulted in goal as first time it wasn't cleared (because it was low cross and Firmino attacked it with CB behind Firmino) and then 2 CBs let the ball cross them.

Also just before the cross was played, Keita was in possession and Ox took up the position between Lindelof and AWB, there was one more liverpool player who made the run, AWB moved inside to cut down the passing lane and the space between CB and FB, which any decent defender will do. When the ball was played wide, midfielder should be picking it instead AWB made that run to close down.

Just watch the play before Keita passed the ball to Robertson.

Once again, how is Robertson who starts from deep is AWB's man? You are just posting cliches now, "basic principle, don't ball watch" while completely ignoring the sequence of play. AWB is not ball watching, he is closing down the space between CB and FB.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Can we all just agree that everyone has at some point played football and understands football as they post on a football forum about a football game that they probably watched?

Cheers.

Some people who understand football also mean they understand tactic but doesn’t mean they ever play football to ever experience it in real life or even coached in when you were a kid. It’s like some engineer know the knowledge but they can be clueless to use the tools to actually build something in real life.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Mental gymnastics has hit it's peak now. It was easy to defend because those were cleared off by the first defender, Robertson cross resulted in goal as first time it wasn't cleared (because it was low cross and Firmino attacked it with CB behind Firmino) and then 2 CBs let the ball cross them.

Also just before the cross was played, Keita was in possession and Ox took up the position between Lindelof and AWB, there was one more liverpool player who made the run, AWB moved inside to cut down the passing lane and the space between CB and FB, which any decent defender will do. When the ball was played wide, midfielder should be picking it instead AWB made that run to close down.

Just watch the play before Keita passed the ball to Robertson.

Once again, how is Robertson who starts from deep is AWB's man? You are just posting cliches now, basic principle, don't ball watch while completely ignoring the sequence of play.

Robertson did have two opportunities before this to put in a free cross in though, where as TAA never got that luxury.

It would be akin to letting Lampard have a free shot from 20 yards three times in a game... if the the third one goes in, then you have to wonder why we keep letting him take shots without closing him down.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Some people who understand football also mean they understand tactic but doesn’t mean they ever play football to ever experience it in real life or even coached in when you were a kid. It’s like some engineer know the knowledge but they can be clueless to use the tools to actually build something in real life.

The majority of people on this site will have played football.

As soon as someone says "You must not have played football to understand X" then that post becomes weaker as a result, as its just a pointless thing to say.

 

[roonster09]

Robertson did have two opportunities before this to put in a free cross in though, where as TAA never got that luxury.

It would be akin to letting Lampard have a free shot from 20 yards three times in a game... if the the third one goes in, then you have to wonder why we keep letting him take shots without closing him down.

Yeah, I agree. Giving so much space to Robertson was a mistake as his crossing is very good but at the same time AWB is already covering the space next to Lindelof. Ox took up that space between Lindelof and AWB, had AWB left that position to cover the wing then it was such an easy pass to pick for Keita. Pereira should be the one closing down Robertson.

Also I find it odd that few people are blaming AWB for moving centrally when Solskjaer was asking the team to play narrow and defend.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No that’s not how it works.

It's more or less how it works.

Being closed down doesn’t mean you can’t cross. It’s just making the player in difficult situation to deliver good ball. TAA got closed down and that’s why his deliver wasn’t good, on the other side Robertson was able to send a low ball cross and they scored due to not being closed down.

Wrong. They scored due to us being A) pinned back like scared sheep in the second half B) As result of A) and our intense pressing whilst playing like underdogs, our players being spent towards the end of the game with more and more space opening up for Liverpool C) a very defendable cross not being properly defended and D) AWB or somebody not geting closer to Robertson.

You can blame a single player all you want but that doesnt change all of the above. AWB can share part of the blame for sure but the obsessive need to only hold one person accountable is rather bizarre.

Making an excuse of player is impossible to keep it up for 90 min is totally nonsense because the goal wasn’t the only time when Robertson wasn’t being closed down.

Nobody is making excuses. Rather you're the one anal about holding only one individual accountable. Players make little mistakes all over in a game BTW. VVD went down on his backside like a clown up against Rashford, but Liverpool defended the move fine because, shock, horror, Mr. I've played football and I'm great, it's a team sport.

I’m sorry to say this but the fact that you said players out wide sometimes get spaced is pretty much show that you never play an actual football in a competition.

This sentence pretty much shows that can't actually form a mature coherent argument to get your viewpoint across as a mature individual would. I'm not sorry that I have to say this to you.

 

[ivaldo]

If it was a plan, then why were closing down TAA far more effectively?

Unless we think TAA is a far more threatening crosser then Robertson, which would be weird.

I think the difference between the two was overstated. It was reflected in what we did in attack and which side of the pitch we looked to exploit.

Liverpool didn't put in a dangerous cross all afternoon. They wanted us to come out and give them space to play in behind. Instead they had to settle with putting a ball into a box where they were outnumbered and out-muscled. Even the goal came from a cross you'd expect us to deal with. I can't see how you can have issue with our tactics when we all but nullified one of the best attacking sides in Europe. The fault was with Rojo and Young leaving a player entirely unmarked in the box, not with AWB for sticking with a tactic that was showing no signs of failing.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yeah, I agree. Giving so much space to Robertson was a mistake as his crossing is very good but at the same time AWB is already covering the space next to Lindelof. Ox took up that space between Lindelof and AWB, had AWB left that position to cover the wing then it was such an easy pass to pick for Keita. Pereira should be the one closing down Robertson.

Also I find it odd that few people are blaming AWB for moving centrally when Solskjaer was asking the team to play narrow and defend.

Yeah, i don't think it's AWB's fault - Andreas should have moved across to close him down as McT had moved across to come onto the fella on the ball.

Not even really blaming Andreas either to be fair... I think its just a collective fault for not doing something about it, and possibly also a result of not having strong communicators on that side of the pitch

 

[roonster09]

Yeah, i don't think it's AWB's fault - Andreas should have moved across to close him down as McT had moved across to come onto the fella on the ball.

Not even really blaming Andreas either to be fair... I think its just a collective fault for not doing something about it, and possibly also a result of not having strong communicators on that side of the pitch

Yeah, can't pin on individual. More like collective failure. Anyways for me the biggest problem was dropping so deep and relying on perfection from the players. It's near impossible.

Crossing the ball is something that happens 20-30 times a game, so can't blame the defenders for letting the attackers cross. It should have been cleared.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Watching it again I do think its Andreas that should have been the one out to him... As McT had moved across so Andreas was actually marking/doing nothing.

Problem was on the left we had a bit more experience in Young/Fred sorting out the threat on the right flank... we didn't really have that communication on the left.

Exactly.

This is why defending like this is much harder than it looks. Unless teams are extremely drilled then hesitation and confusion for even a few seconds can be the cause of a goal.

It was probably the only time we had a lapse in the whole match, and we got stung.

I personally don't think we needed to change the formation, it was working fine as it was. We panicked into the old concede space and fill up the box and hope for the best routine.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Mental gymnastics has hit it's peak now. It was easy to defend because those were cleared off by the first defender, Robertson cross resulted in goal as first time it wasn't cleared (because it was low cross and Firmino attacked it with CB behind Firmino) and then 2 CBs let the ball cross them.

Also just before the cross was played, Keita was in possession and Ox took up the position between Lindelof and AWB, there was one more liverpool player who made the run, AWB moved inside to cut down the passing lane and the space between CB and FB, which any decent defender will do. When the ball was played wide, midfielder should be picking it instead AWB made that run to close down.

Just watch the play before Keita passed the ball to Robertson.

Once again, how is Robertson who starts from deep is AWB's man? You are just posting cliches now, "basic principle, don't ball watch" while completely ignoring the sequence of play. AWB is not ball watching, he is closing down the space between CB and FB.

Both Young & Fred were constantly not giving TAA enough space & time to deliver, Crossing were made doesn’t indicate that he wasn’t being closed down. You close them down to make them difficult to deliver good ball. I’m not really sure how you can argue with that.

Robertson on the other hand received the opposite treatment by both Pereira & Bissaka, he was constantly given lot of space & time in 2nd half. If you are not in the position of sticking with your man because you have to cover for something else then it’s your job to communicate with other so they can cover each other. Communication is basic in football when you are playing.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

fecking hell, when you start your posts with bs like that, then don't even bother. For a guy who probably played in actual comp, you really don't understand football if you believe what you just typed. You don't have to mark player to be in the box, you are defending the pace and completely nullifying the central part of the pitch, which leaves opposition team just to cross and hope. That's why teams when they defend deep, they defend narrowly to cut down the spaces between the defenders.B

AWB is not outside the box to block the cross as we parked the bus and every defender was in the box defending.

TAA played many crosses in the second half and late in the game, only difference was every cross was cleared by the defenders. Someone even posted the difference in FBs crossing between first half and second half, for both TAA and Robertson, you can check those too.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This is the tweet, TAA played many crosses, we defended well and cleared those.

Not surprised. We got pushed back in the second half. This tends to give teams room to put delivery in, unless you're exceptional in your closing down and the opposition cant get their game together at all.

Yeah, i don't think it's AWB's fault - Andreas should have moved across to close him down as McT had moved across to come onto the fella on the ball.

Not even really blaming Andreas either to be fair... I think its just a collective fault for not doing something about it, and possibly also a result of not having strong communicators on that side of the pitch

Completely agree. There was much that went wrong on that and many (including AWB) played a part. But it's not one guy should be held responsible. It's not like anybody made huge cock up letting a CF in on goal.

And at the end of the day, us actually getting pinned back in that manner is the bigger concern, surely, than a failure to close the ball down/clear the cross.

 

[roonster09]

You never play football in an actual comp aren’t you. .

I’m sorry to say this but the fact that you said players out wide sometimes get spaced is pretty much show that you never play an actual football in a competition.

Looks like this is your 'Go-To' argument and reading your posts reminds me of empty vessels, more noise thing.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I think the difference between the two was overstated. It was reflected in what we did in attack and which side of the pitch we looked to exploit.

Liverpool didn't put in a dangerous cross all afternoon. They wanted us to come out and give them space to play in behind. Instead they had to settle with putting a ball into a box where they were outnumbered and out-muscled. Even the goal came from a cross you'd expect us to deal with. I can't see how you can have issue with our tactics when we all but nullified one of the best attacking sides in Europe.

I go back to my Lampard analogy. If you let him have a free shot from 20 yards out 3 times in a half, you can't be that surprised when the third one goes in.

With TAA we were closing him down and making it difficult for him to cross - and most of his crosses actually came from pretty deep (which is fine as deep crosses are easier to deal with) and any that were further up the pitch he had either one of Fred/Young/James buzzing around him to make life difficult.

Robertson had 2 opportunities to put in free crosses before that one, and we did deal with them, and you're right in the fact that we should have dealt with this one and that would be that, and our approach would have been grand... BUT as Robertson is such a good crosser of the ball, and our defense can always be counted on to collectively shit our pants at any given point, it can't be a massive surprise when the third time he gets the chance they score from it.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The majority of people on this site will have played football.

As soon as someone says "You must not have played football to understand X" then that post becomes weaker as a result, as its just a pointless thing to say.

How do you even know that they even ever play football in an actual comp?

 

[roonster09]

Both Young & Fred were constantly not giving TAA enough space & time to deliver, Crossing were made doesn’t indicate that he wasn’t being closed down. You close them down to make them difficult to deliver good ball. I’m not really sure how you can argue with that.

Robertson on the other hand received the opposite treatment by both Pereira & Bissaka, he was constantly given lot of space & time in 2nd half. If you are not in the position of sticking with your man because you have to cover for something else then it’s your job to communicate with other so they can cover each other. Communication is basic in football when you are playing.

And again the sequence of play is ignored and now the assumption stats. How do you know Pereira wasn't communicated, how do you know what was said and what wasn't?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

As I explained on the previous page, Pereira was closer to Robertson and they both hesitated thinking each other was going to close him down. by the time Pereira started moving it was too late. The swap of formation to tuck Pereira into a RM position caused the confusion, before that it was clearly AWB's job to shut the flank.

That’s why I said both him & Pereira are to blamed for giving Robertson too much space and time in the whole 2nd half. No communication whatsoever.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

How do you even know that they even ever play football in an actual comp?

Life experience... pretty much everyone I know that likes football in life (especially to the extent where you would spend your free time signed up to a forum to talk to strangers about it) also plays it in some way shape of form. If you extrapolate that out, then yeah its a fairly easy argument to make.

I can start a poll on it though if you like?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

And again the sequence of play is ignored and now the assumption stats. How do you know Pereira wasn't communicated, how do you know what was said and what wasn't?

It’s not assumption. Robertson was clearly given lot of space & time there. It’s the opposite on the other flanks where TAA wasn’t given space & time.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Life experience... pretty much everyone I know that likes football in life (especially to the extent where you would spend your free time signed up to a forum to talk to strangers about it) also plays it in some way shape of form. If you extrapolate that out, then yeah its a fairly easy argument to make.

I can start a poll on it though if you like?

‘’Majority’’ doesn’t mean all of them.

Some people that I know don’t even play football but playing futsal or indoor.

 

[Harry190]

Let it go. He's still a boy, back from a long layoff, 86 minutes played. He can have a small lapse. He's what? 21, 22?

 

[Lynty]

Not sure why everyone is looking too much into this goal.

Let it go.

It was a poor cross and it could have been dealt with by multiple people, and I'm sure they're all kicking themselves for it.

Conceding 1 goal vs Liverpool on current form is better than expected. We showed fire, as to be expected in this derby, but most importantly we played with a plan and executed it well.