Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.

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Adnan

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On Full backs being up and down the touchline for 90 minutes ?

Paul Parker
Denis Irwin
Phil Neville
Gary Neville

Were all doing that before Wenger even set foot in the country, and that is just in the premiership era.
Wenger wanted his fullbacks to get involved in the attacking phase much more than the United players you mention who were asked to provide an outlet and get a cross in.
 

roonster09

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That’s if you can get his fat arse beyond the halfway line. Your stats provide no perspective. If you try more dribbles in more dangerous areas of the pitch you will lose the ball more. The same goes for passing accuracy if you’re playing simple five yard passes.
There isn't much between them.
Shaw has 5 goal contributions, Chilwell has 4
Shaw's pass completion is 83%, Chilwell's is 72%
Shaw wins more tackles, Chilwell wins more aerial duels and interceptions
Shaw completed 14/52 crosses (26%), Chilwell completed 22/132 crosses (16%)
Shaw completed 27/38 dribbles (71%), Chilwell completed 49/85 (57%)
Shaw losses possession 1.5 times per game, Chilwell loses 3.3 times.
Shaw plays 57 passes per game, Chilwell plays 46 per game.
Shaw played 1.6 long passes per game, Chilwell 1.2 per game.
Shaw long pass completion 45/53 (84%), Chilwell 42/129 (32%)
Shaw played 0.1 through passes per game, Chilwell has 0.

It's not as if Shaw has better passing accuracy just because he plays simple passes, he is much better at passing the ball. HE completes 84% long passes compared to 32% by Chilwell.

He has better pass completion percentage, much better long passing percentage, his dribble completion percentage is better and also his cross completion percentage.
 

Cliche Guevara

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The Telegraph article will educate you on the evolution that has taken place over the years as far as fullbacks go and how they were coached, to how they're coached now, up and down the country.
Well now you’ve provided the evidence of the great Paul Stalteri and Lee Young-Pyo, there’s no dispute.
 

Patrick08

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Reports that fee will be 50 million euros, that's around 44 million pounds.

Also comparing him to Shaw,
Rising to 48-50 m euros depending on which source you quote.

While he is a full back decent at attacking and providing width and deliveries in a team like lyon, and will improve his numbers with midfielders they have who will get him more time and space hang around in attacking areas.

On the other hand we are being quoted even more for a defensive full back who is not natural providing width and decent deliveries in the box and also in a team lacking top midfielders at the moment who will allow a full back to lurk in high attacking areas near the box.

Also since when do madrid become the bench mark for a fair price? They are also not in a position like us needing so much investment in midfeild like us.

They might earn back 50 m euros selling the likes of marcelo in the future if he leaves and their French left ack on loan who didnt make the cut. Do we have any of those luxuries?
 

roonster09

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Rising to 48-50 m euros depending on which source you quote.

While he is a full back decent at attacking and providing width and deliveries in a team like lyon, and will improve his numbers with midfielders they have who will get him more time and space hang around in attacking areas.

On the other hand we are being quoted even more for a defensive full back who is not natural providing width and decent deliveries in the box and also in a team lacking top midfielders at the moment who will allow a full back to lurk in high attacking areas near the box.

Also since when do madrid become the bench mark for a fair price? They are also not in a position like us needing so much investment in midfeild like us.

They might earn back 50 m euros selling the likes of marcelo in the future if he leaves and their French left ack on loan who didnt make the cut. Do we have any of those luxuries?
So a player from Lyon will improve his numbers because he will move to big team where he play with better players but a player from Crystal Palace won't improve when he plays with better players at ManUtd.

RMC reported fee is 48 million and add ons. They are in a position where they need big investment, difference is they have signed Mendy and also made investment in other areas too. Not sure about bench mark, it was you who brought Mendy's price, no one else did. The poster you replied to was talking about "Is Mendy a complete player" you came up with his value is 38 million pounds.

I don't know where you are going with your last point. We don't have to address every position in the same window. If the coaches believe AWB is the one to sign then sign him, address whatever we can in this window and then build the solid foundation to make the jump next summer.

AWB is very good technically and in tight spaces, only thing is lacks is final ball. It's not as if we are signing a technically dud player, he is very good on the ball.
 

Adnan

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Well now you’ve provided the evidence of the great Paul Stalteri and Lee Young-Pyo, there’s no dispute.
I've provided the evidence of people who have worked at high profile football clubs and the difference between what is expected of fullbacks in this day and age compared to yester years.
 

roonster09

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What if he doesn't?
What doesn't? AWB is good on the ball and technically very good. His ability to get past the defender is arguably the best in the league (among fullbacks). Only thing he lacks is final pass.
 
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VeevaVee

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What doesn't? AWB is good on the ball and technically very good. His ability to get past the defender is arguably the best in the league (among fullbacks). Only thing is lacks is final pass.
This is what makes me unsure about him. Final third stuff is what almost all our players lack.

Would still be happy to sign him though.
 

Adnan

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What doesn't? AWB is good on the ball and technically very good. His ability to get past the defender is arguably the best in the league (among fullbacks). Only thing he lacks is final pass.
If he can beat his defender and get involved in the one two's with our attackers, then I'm optimistic he'll come good for us.
 

roonster09

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This is what makes me unsure about him. Final third stuff is what almost all our players lack.

Would still be happy to sign him though.
I think 21 year old RB who had his first full season lacking final pass is not surprising. This is something that can be improved, especially when you make the jump to bigger club where you play more attacking football, more players involved in the build up play and also more options to pick in the box.
 

roonster09

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If he can beat his defender and get involved in the one two's with our attackers, then I'm optimistic he'll come good for us.
There is no doubt he can beat his defender, he is very skillful player. I'm optimistic as he has trickery and skill on the ball. He is not a typical FB who just kick and run to beat defender, he makes little body feints, changes direction. Also just check the tweet that was posted above, ignore the martial bit and watch the last bit where he beats Wolves player with a skill that even our wingers can't pull off or have the confidence to even try that.

Obviously he should improve his final pass but he is just 21 year old with first full season in PL.
 

VeevaVee

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I think 21 year old RB who had his first full season lacking final pass is not surprising. This is something that can be improved, especially when you make the jump to bigger club where you play more attacking football, more players involved in the build up play and also more options to pick in the box.
Yeah, for sure. Although it's something that I'd like to be a part of their game they naturally excel at ideally. Of course it's very difficult to find that, so I'd be well happy with him coming. He ticks a lot of boxes.
 

Adnan

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There is no doubt he can beat his defender, he is very skillful player. I'm optimistic as he has trickery and skill on the ball. He is not a typical FB who just kick and run to beat defender, he makes little body feints, changes direction. Also just check the tweet that was posted above, ignore the martial bit and watch the last bit where he beats Wolves player with a skill that even our wingers can't pull off or have the confidence to even try that.

Obviously he should improve his final pass but he is just 21 year old with first full season in PL.
The video I did watch and it was a impressive piece of skill for sure.
 

The Nani

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Leicester have two fantastic attacking fullbacks in Pereira & Chilwell.

How would a fullback pairing of Shaw and Wan Bissaka compare to their Leicester counterparts?

The Leicester duo are comfortably better IMO.
If Everton were to sign Meunier both Liverpool clubs would have far superior fullbacks than us for far less money.
 

roonster09

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Yeah, for sure. Although it's something that I'd like to be a part of their game they naturally excel at ideally. Of course it's very difficult to find that, so I'd be well happy with him coming. He ticks a lot of boxes.
Yeah I agree with that, there are few players who looks very natural in the final third but I'm going with the last point you made. He ticks lot of boxes and he has room for improvement.
 

Nitewolf

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I really don't understand this whole debate about AWB and whether he is good enough for us or not.

He is the best fullback in the PL last season, his stats showed an excellent defensive dominance over his opponents, I have seen him against the best winger in the PL and no one could pass this guy, he was stopping the likes of Mane and Sane with ease, he is one of the best with the ball on his feet with very good skills to carry the ball forward. Now to understand his attacking numbers you have to look at the way Crystal Palace are playing.

Crystal Palace play with 4-4-2 system where the Fullback sit in deep during defense, during attacking transition they move upfront and stay inside (inside wing back) which is the almost the same system Pep Guardiola uses sometimes with his fullbacks, this is done to provide the space for their wingers to move freely on the line while their midfielder move up the half spaces, meanwhile the fullbacks provide passing options and support during attack and set good cover against opponents counter attacks.

AWB used to play as a winger, his attacking numbers will definitely improve if we want to use him in a more advance position during attacking transition because he is fast, makes good dribbles, and is able to carry the ball. His crosses are better than most of our fullback except Dalot who is vastly an inferior RB when compared to AWB.

In conclusion, we'll pay 60 millions for the best full back in the PL who is a young English talent, we'll tick every box with this signing, Kyle Walker cost City 50 millions 2 years ago, we are getting a better player for less taking in consideration the state of inflation in the market now. He is a much better option than Meunier who is older, has inferior overall contribution despite playing for a far better club in an inferior league!! Yes we'll keep 35 or 40 millions but for what purpose? If we solve the RB problem for the next 10 years that's a no brainer deal.
 
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Loublaze

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There isn't much between them.
Shaw has 5 goal contributions, Chilwell has 4
Shaw's pass completion is 83%, Chilwell's is 72%
Shaw wins more tackles, Chilwell wins more aerial duels and interceptions
Shaw completed 14/52 crosses (26%), Chilwell completed 22/132 crosses (16%)
Shaw completed 27/38 dribbles (71%), Chilwell completed 49/85 (57%)
Shaw losses possession 1.5 times per game, Chilwell loses 3.3 times.
Shaw plays 57 passes per game, Chilwell plays 46 per game.
Shaw played 1.6 long passes per game, Chilwell 1.2 per game.
Shaw long pass completion 45/53 (84%), Chilwell 42/129 (32%)
Shaw played 0.1 through passes per game, Chilwell has 0.

It's not as if Shaw has better passing accuracy just because he plays simple passes, he is much better at passing the ball. HE completes 84% long passes compared to 32% by Chilwell.

He has better pass completion percentage, much better long passing percentage, his dribble completion percentage is better and also his cross completion percentage.
Amazing. The grass is always greener and all that.
 

Loublaze

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The overating of Meuiner is nauseating. I bet he flops in the PL wherever he goes. Hopefully Arsenal
 

AR87

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The Nani

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Tell me about it. If hes so good why are PSG willing to sell him for peanuts? I smell a rat.
He hasn’t signed a new deal due to a lack of regular playing time. It’s a pretty simple and straightforward situation and one that has been talked about for the past couple of seasons.

His output for PSG has been fantastic when he did play.
 

Jezpeza

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He hasn’t signed a new deal due to a lack of regular playing time. It’s a pretty simple and straightforward situation and one that has been talked about for the past couple of seasons.

His output for PSG has been fantastic when he did play.
I dont know. Tinpot league. Our reserves turned them over. Darmian would probably tear it up there
 

Loublaze

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Tell me about it. If hes so good why are PSG willing to sell him for peanuts? I smell a rat.
This. They are ready to move on from him and he seems to be the one pushing for a move to a PL club. I've hardly seen his name even mentioned here before these links as a top fullback
 

Adnan

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Amazing. The grass is always greener and all that.
Those stats show that Shaw is infact more suited to playing as the 3rd CB and not as a Fullback. His passing stats would be impressive if he was infact a CB and not a fullback. He should be one of the options on the end of those passes and not making those passes.

Chilwell takes more risks in the attacking 3rd and is the better allround fullback as far as the eye test goes..
 

roonster09

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The video I did watch and it was a impressive piece of skill for sure.
His link play is very good. There are more bits and pieces but got these from 1 of the videos. We need a player who is strong and make these driving runs and also can retain possession with his skill.

 

Jezpeza

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Except Meunier has been a force for Belgium as well.

Such top red, tribal logic. :rolleyes:
Dunno. Hes solidly kept out the team by a relic dani alves. We have enough mediocre players. And Anyone in a half decent national team looks a force at international level as well, when the likes of england and belgium and france play rohan, lidl and san marino in friendlies.
 

roonster09

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This. They are ready to move on from him and he seems to be the one pushing for a move to a PL club. I've hardly seen his name even mentioned here before these links as a top fullback
Tbf Meunier was always rated on caf, at least from last 2-3 years.
 

Adnan

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His link play is very good. There are more bits and pieces but got these from 1 of the videos. We need a player who is strong and make these driving runs and also can retain possession with his skill.

Some good dribbling ability to beat defenders in the final 3rd. Technically looks very good and it could just be a case of unlocking his attacking instincts in a more attack minded side.
 

The Nani

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Dunno. Hes solidly kept out the team by a relic dani alves. We have enough mediocre players. And Anyone in a half decent national team looks a force at international level as well, when the likes of england and belgium and france play rohan, lidl and san marino in friendlies.
Guess you missed the World Cup and our matches against PSG then. :rolleyes:
 

caleb2003

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Wenger wanted his fullbacks to get involved in the attacking phase much more than the United players you mention who were asked to provide an outlet and get a cross in.
Dennis Irwin was one of the most complete footballers ever to have played and was involved in much more than 'get a cross in' , Infact Fergies use of attacking fullbacks in general was a large reason for the domination of games his teams had over the years
 
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meamth

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His link play is very good. There are more bits and pieces but got these from 1 of the videos. We need a player who is strong and make these driving runs and also can retain possession with his skill.

Amazing. He is so explosive and so well balanced!

Already a better dribbler than Rashford.
 
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