I’ve come to the conclusion that no matter who we sign in the future, we will always have a poor midfield.
Absolutely horrible midfield
- Thread starter flappyjay
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
What makes you come to that conclusion?
Because I can’t think of the last time we had a good midfield. Over a decade of midfield being our weakest spot and no matter who we have signed, they’ve never really worked out. Herrera did for a season but he wasn’t amazing.
Fair point. I also think our midfield has been weak and I hope they do something drastically to sort it out soon
Mctominay, Pereira, Lingard and Fred are disgrace for Man United. We should stick with Pogba and Matic for this season (if they are ok ofc) and invest big money in the summer. If Pogba leaves, we have to buy at least 3-4 midfielders, because we already need at least two of them. Maddison is awsome player, but does he have a reason to change the team? Or change Leicester for Man United? I dont think so. Longstaff is good, but not even close to world class and people like Rice are overated like englismen usually are.
We are kind of doomed, because if we dont make it to champions league, we cannot fight for the best players out there and our scouting system is kind of broken - Fred, Lindelof, Dalot are just so bad I cant believe there was someone who recommended them and was also paid for this job.
We are kind of doomed, because if we dont make it to champions league, we cannot fight for the best players out there and our scouting system is kind of broken - Fred, Lindelof, Dalot are just so bad I cant believe there was someone who recommended them and was also paid for this job.
-------- Matic --------
Herrera - Pogba
was probably our best midfield after SAF.
Unfortunately Matic doesn't have the legs anymore, we sold Herrera and Pogba might be leaving. We need 2 new top midfielders at the very least.
Herrera - Pogba
was probably our best midfield after SAF.
Unfortunately Matic doesn't have the legs anymore, we sold Herrera and Pogba might be leaving. We need 2 new top midfielders at the very least.
Yes. I've talked about his nation performance many times. National performances are in no way comparable to club where the latter requires consistency.
I remember fanboys suggesting he'd have a great season because he had a good world Cup (where he performed well in 4 games). That can't be extrapolated to a 38 game league ffs. It's no wonder Pogba only turned up for 3 months last season.
With Pogba, Fred and McTominay the midfield would, in time, be solid. Need to get rid of Pereira, and add two new experienced world class player for completion and competition.
The starting midfield has some quality - Pogba and McTominay. They need game time together. McTominay os already the Player of the Season, which says a lot - it's not going to get much better. The rest are truly dreadful, below the standard required. People mention competition for places, it's true. We need it. Brazilian footballers are normally associated with being gifted, flair players..............until we buy them. Fred, Perreira - get rid.
I'm still laughing at the two posters who cite Foden as part of the quality City midfield. He only plays in the "dead rubbber" games or Carabao Cup. Poor lad needs to move clubs to fulfill his potential. Until then he's "potential".
I'm still laughing at the two posters who cite Foden as part of the quality City midfield. He only plays in the "dead rubbber" games or Carabao Cup. Poor lad needs to move clubs to fulfill his potential. Until then he's "potential".
Sorry, I wasn’t under the impression you were saying Pogba doesn’t have a winning mentality
I'm saying he's a winner but the argument to defend him as though he's some Roy Keane or similar is just false. He's a winner on paper and he showed one glimpse of some leadership for France before the final. He's shown no leadership for us. He's more of a hands on hips when things go bad for us kind of guy.
But he is terrific in potential and when he's good he's great. It's just few and far between and from a mentality on the pitch perspective, we're better off without midfielders like him and more with midfielders like McTominay.
I find Liverpool extremely dominant as an example and not a single one of their midfielderd oozes natural class.
To be honest mate you have absolutely no idea of what leadership qualities he has shown within the dressing room etc and neither do I. The fact that you reference that 'one' example for France tells me your basing your opinion of a video you've seen. I doubt anyone knows on this forum as to exactly what PP's influence is on the other players, but many seem to have decided it's a negative one, or that he's not giving his all etc.
I can tell you he has hands on hips when we concede a goal and go on to get dicked on by a relegated Huddersfield or spanked 4-0 by Everton whilst unlikely players like Lindelof were seen on TV running up to players individually trying to get their chin up.
It's so clear to see which players are mentally stronger than others on the pitch, you don't need to sit in the dressing room to suss it out.
So you're now saying Lindeloff is a mentally stronger player than Pogba, because you saw him trying to raise players spirits after a game, whilst Pogba had his hands on his hips? Fair play, you've won me over! Can't argue with that evidence.
What about, you know, winning football matches through moments of individual brilliance in difficult circumstances? Is that secondary to body language now? I'm sure you will turn round and say Pogba doesn't do it often enough. I've got some news for you; since Ferguson retired we have spent hundreds of millions, and no one has done it often enough. How many players have put in better performances than Pogba vs City over the last few years (during a period when he was allegedly 'trying to get Jose the sack!').
Questioning Pogba's mental attitude is laughable in my opinion. As a teenager he had the self belief to test himself at one of the biggest clubs on the planet, broke through into one of the best midfields in European football at the time, won a place in the UEFA team of the season, and then eventually went on to play a pivotal role in winning a world cup final, providing the assist of the tournament with an incredible pass to Mbappe.
But Lindeloff walked around telling people to keep their chin up, so as you say, it's pretty clear who the mentally strong players are.
We should get Ndidi from Leicester in January. Even if it costs £100m....he's make us solid, and free Pogba
You really haven't followed my posts. I gave an example of how it's clear to gauge mentality, it's obvious I didn't base my whole evaluation on it.
You don't need to be in a dressing room to see when someone's head isn't in the game. Pogba's general play shows that often enough. This whole "blargh he's a winner" argument is just flawed. Yes he's a winner on paper. So was fecking Anderson, that didn't make him a leader on the pitch and it doesn't suddenly make Pogba one. Heck, Pogba was made captain and then stripped of captaincy. But youl find some bullshit way of spinning it such that he has no fault in the matter anyway so discussing with you is futile.
And it's quite clear that you see what you want to see with Pogba. I'll leave it there.
For the record I think it's best if Pogba is sold, but some of the crap people say about him is outrageous to be honest. No wonder he wants to leave.
Edit: Also, I must say it's incredibly strange that Jose, one of the most decorated managers in history, thought that Pogba was a fit leader at one point (obviously that didn't work out). He could have saved time by just giving you a call obviously.
You shot yourself in the foot because he stripped Pogba of the captaincy very shortly after.
Last edited:
Your Right. It's worse.
Pogba's a disgrace and anyone wanting him to stay at United must be mad. He has continually disappointed, underwhelmed and also stated his desire to leave multiple times. If we get £100m or more for him and re-invest it all on quality midfielders with a good attitude we will be far better off as a club and team.
Not at all. Jose has fallen out with many players, including some of the most driven and dedicated of our generation. The mere fact that he made him captain obviously holds some weight, regardless of what came after.
The point is, there is more than enough evidence to back up what I'm saying, including all of the examples I've already given. Your analysis of his body language is a joke when all of his team mates speak so highly of him.
Our midfield is like whack-a-mole and I never see it ending.
In the summer we needed 2 x CM's to replace Herrera and Fellaini given Matic was clearly flagging in general and on the way out.
Pogba is likely to go in January, summer 2020 latest.
So that will be 4 x midfielders we need to replace.
In the summer we needed 2 x CM's to replace Herrera and Fellaini given Matic was clearly flagging in general and on the way out.
Pogba is likely to go in January, summer 2020 latest.
So that will be 4 x midfielders we need to replace.
I think any talk about Pogba is largely irrelevant at this point - the guy's on his way out.
I think the club will do exactly what they did in Van Gaals last season. They knew Van Gaal was a clown going nowhere, so they were happy to write-off the season with the consolation that Rashford, Lingard and Martial would hopefully develop. Fosu-Mensah back then also was considered nailed on to make it.
Ole is far better for Utd than Van Gaal, but if the performances continue to be disjointed and underwhelming come May, then the board will accept that if it means James, Garner and Greenwood will have developed to a point of being first XI possibilities. And may realized we need Pochettino then too.
People mentioning Sander Berge in January. He looks like a Matic/McTominay clone and not the answer.
I don't think we'll do a Jose panic in January and saddle the squad with more over-paid over-the-hill flops like Emre Can.
I'd happily swap Pogba and cash for Bale in January if Bale was happy to half his wages to sign.
Dani Olmo and Camavinga are very slight options in January but still unlikely.
I think the club have 3 targets, probably Sancho, McGinn and Kalvin Phillips, that they know will only be potentially available in the summer.
Ole is far better for Utd than Van Gaal, but if the performances continue to be disjointed and underwhelming come May, then the board will accept that if it means James, Garner and Greenwood will have developed to a point of being first XI possibilities. And may realized we need Pochettino then too.
People mentioning Sander Berge in January. He looks like a Matic/McTominay clone and not the answer.
I don't think we'll do a Jose panic in January and saddle the squad with more over-paid over-the-hill flops like Emre Can.
I'd happily swap Pogba and cash for Bale in January if Bale was happy to half his wages to sign.
Dani Olmo and Camavinga are very slight options in January but still unlikely.
I think the club have 3 targets, probably Sancho, McGinn and Kalvin Phillips, that they know will only be potentially available in the summer.
sorry what? What did you provide? What he did for France? I'm asking what he showed at Man Utd that makes him a leader or someone with a strong mentality and you've given nothing.
And you're suggesting now Mourinho stripping him of captaincy is also not his fault, just as I predicted you'd argue.
I've already addressed the issues at our club, and it's quite clearly an incredibly difficult club for a player to thrive at right now. Would you disagree? And if so, which players have thrived and shown their potential after signing? Lukaku, who was bought for 75m? Angel Di Maria,who has been twice the player since he left? It just doesn't make sense to me to brand someone as 'mentally weak' based on their time here.
As he always seems to be injured, not sure we would be much better off anyway.
The bolded is quite funny since I'm pretty sure you first referenced his play in one CL final. I merely pointed out counterexamples against "decent" opposition in the same competition. If he wasn't a passenger for a team who won it's domestic title AND made the CL final then I'm not sure what obscure point you are trying to make. He's a winner b/c he's won at the club and country level. It's pretty straightforward.
I didn't say hes mentally weak. I just said I see more in the mentality of players like Scott McTominay than I do in Pogba.
Follow my posts in this discussion, it all started when I said this claim that he's a winner like its a big thing is watered down. In reality his mentality is inconclusive to me. There's nothing to suggest he's shown anything else.
Scott McTomminay is most certainly a grafter and shows good fight. What he hasn't shown is whether he has the mental fortitude to deliver in the biggest moments on the biggest stages, something Pogba has shown everywhere he has played, other than at Manchester United.
it's hard to quantify for someone like Scott as he has pretty much played for a mid table side up until now (PSG game aside).
You can count on one hand the number of successful midfield signings since Keane over 25 years ago
Mental fortitude? I'm sorry what did Pogba do for any club outside of winning a one horse league in Serie A? Play well against Bayern in the champions league? McTominay played well against PSG.
You do like to talk some shite don't you. The man goes for walkies vs teams like Everton, Huddersfield heck Palace this season and you talk about mental fortitude.. From a time where Juventus had no teams within 20 points of them
So you think a teenager going to Juve and fighting his way into a midfield containing several top players doesn't show any kind of character? Okay then.Mental fortitude? I'm sorry what did Pogba do for any club outside of winning a one horse league in Serie A? Play well against Bayern in the champions league? McTominay played well against PSG.
You do like to talk some shite don't you. The man goes for walkies vs teams like Everton, Huddersfield heck Palace this season and you talk about mental fortitude.. From a time where Juventus had no teams within 20 points of them
I would also say that playing an inch perfect forty yard through ball on the volley to set up a goal in a world cup final shows that Pogba has the composure and character to perform on the biggest stages. That's the point I was trying to make.
I think of it as there being more than 1 type of leadership. Some leadership is based on rallying the troops in the middle of the battle. Another type is being that locker room presence that brings everyone together. The last one is one built through example where the best player leads through example. It's also possible to be all 3 types at the same time.
I think Pogba is more of the 2nd, and a little of the 3rd. I think Ronaldo is absolutely the 3rd. McTominay and Dean Henderson seem like the first type. Angel Gomes is captain of the youth sides for both England and United, but he seems more of the 2nd as he seems to get along with everyone.
You're going overboard. Pogba didn't join a Juve that was winning titles. He was part of the start of that winning title run. So you can't just call his time there as simply joining a one team league.Mental fortitude? I'm sorry what did Pogba do for any club outside of winning a one horse league in Serie A? Play well against Bayern in the champions league? McTominay played well against PSG.
You do like to talk some shite don't you. The man goes for walkies vs teams like Everton, Huddersfield heck Palace this season and you talk about mental fortitude.. From a time where Juventus had no teams within 20 points of them
And Pogba has won at all levels. He won the FA youth cup, the u20 World Cup, the Serie A, and the World Cup. He's made it to the Euro Finals and the CL finals.
In a one horse league? Not really. He went to a lesser league to a side that were rebuilding. Cleverly fought his way into our side it didn't mean he was anything special by way of leadership and mental strength beyond his peers. He was just normal.
Fergie made some good suggestions about his character when he left, Google them.
Pool's midfield is lacking creativity, but there are certainly goals in a player like Wijnladum and their lack of creativity is hidden by the two full backs that are even more creative than 50% of the PL. It was only a tactical choice to let them create along with the forwards and then having a great running midfield.
As for Chelsea, it's not only the midfield, but when when your whole team is running and creating spaces, it's always easier for midfielders to have solution.
I am sorry but to be honest, Fred is at best a bench warmer in a top 10 European side, and Pereira is probably good enough to start week in week out for Angers, Toulouse, Dijon, Reims or Nimes in Ligue (which means Granada level for Spain, or Ipswich in England)
It's hard to have a serious conversation when you are so flippant about finding a place in such a great team, at such a young age in a foreign country.
And you argue this, something 5-6 years old, to show good mentality for him currently.. whilst also ignoring him being stripped as captain just last year as showing bad mentality.
Good one.
Well obviously we don't agree but there we are. He will be gone soon anyway, and probably for the best in many ways. And I'm pretty confident he will go on to achieve big things, whilst we will replace him with an inferior player. Perhaps we can revisit the subject in a few years time.
You can have a debate without telling someone they 'like talking shite', by the way.
OK, I apologise for that tone. Let's just see how he performs elsewhere I guess.