Academy minutes: Man Utd lead the way

Crashoutcassius

Full Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
10,295
Location
playa del carmen
I think golden generation may be a stretch but some good talents no doubt. United are clearly aware they have took their eye off the ball when it comes to the academy and seemingly think they have a gap where there should be the next group coming through behind your Greenwood's etc as they have been on a recruitment drive of youngsters from across the continent. Mistakes of the last few years in the academy area, be it coaching or recruitment, can be remedied sharply and "save" current groups down to say the u-12 or 13's but for the 15's and 16's it is probably too late which is why the recruitment drive mentioned earlier is happening. This is what I mean with it takes time, mistakes as well as good work at academy level both usually only show themselves a handful if not more years after the work has been put in.
They aren't all the same generation of teams but if McTominay, Tuanzebe, Greenwood, Gomes, Rashford all hit their ceiling and play a significant part in I think that is as good as any generation bar the class of 92... Golden generation probably is a bit strong...
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,494
Will be nice to see Chelsea move up this league at the end of the season.
How long are Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi out for? I'm guessing they'd make up the most substantial chunk of your minutes next season.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,494
Not more than a couple of months for either of them.

Christensen, Mount, Abraham and James will also get a decent number of minutes.
Quite a nice little generation of players shaping up for you there, hopefully Lampard's finally the one to break the mould and trust your youth properly. I'm very interested to see how James gets on in the PL, in my opinion he's the best of the bunch.
 

padr81

Full Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
11,880
Supports
Man City
Shocking stat by us but I was pretty sure we'd be last, we have zero academy players involved bar Foden who is bit part in the PL/CL.
 

Powderfinger

Full Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
2,196
Supports
Arsenal
Is it just me or does adding Poba as academy player skew the results. Yes he may have come through our academy, but he comes back from Juve, feels more like outside that shaped his football more, even though the academy built the foundation. But guess on technicality, he should be added, just doesn't feel like he should for me.
I agree, it doesn't make any sense. If City went out and bought Sancho and Brahim Diaz for 200M over the next couple years and they become squad fixtures, should we really say, "Oh I guess we were wrong all along, the club actually is pretty good at bringing through youth players?"

If the question is how good the academy is at developing talent, then it shouldn't matter whether the talent has gone on to play for the first team or some other club. City should get credit for Sancho, Arsenal for Gnabry, etc.

If the question is how good the club is at developing academy talent and integrating them into the first team, then a player who moves elsewhere before they're meaningfully integrated into the first team shouldn't count just because the club paid a big sum on the market to bring them back later in their career.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,515
I agree, it doesn't make any sense. If City went out and bought Sancho and Brahim Diaz for 200M over the next couple years and they become squad fixtures, should we really say, "Oh I guess we were wrong all along, the club actually is pretty good at bringing through youth players?"

If the question is how good the academy is at developing talent, then it shouldn't matter whether the talent has gone on to play for the first team or some other club. City should get credit for Sancho, Arsenal for Gnabry, etc.

If the question is how good the club is at developing academy talent and integrating them into the first team, then a player who moves elsewhere before they're meaningfully integrated into the first team shouldn't count just because the club paid a big sum on the market to bring them back later in their career.
Watford should get credit for Sancho, he spent just 2 years at City.
 

SirAnderson

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
24,362
Location
Johannesburg, South Africa
I agree, it doesn't make any sense. If City went out and bought Sancho and Brahim Diaz for 200M over the next couple years and they become squad fixtures, should we really say, "Oh I guess we were wrong all along, the club actually is pretty good at bringing through youth players?"

If the question is how good the academy is at developing talent, then it shouldn't matter whether the talent has gone on to play for the first team or some other club. City should get credit for Sancho, Arsenal for Gnabry, etc.

If the question is how good the club is at developing academy talent and integrating them into the first team, then a player who moves elsewhere before they're meaningfully integrated into the first team shouldn't count just because the club paid a big sum on the market to bring them back later in their career.
Yes! Thank you, someone sees it the same way.
But it seems we still take first place once you take Pogba's minutes away, so that's at least something to be happy about. If only it lead to being more successful, then there'd be something to be even more happy about.
 

andyox

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
478
Supports
Manchester City
Watford should get credit for Sancho, he spent just 2 years at City.
Agreed on that. Bit of a grey area for "bought" academy products who come in fairly late. You could argue the same for the likes of Denis Suarez and Rony Lopes who City also bought in and then sold.

On general point though, City should get credit for developing the likes of Trippier and Mee even if they've gone on to success elsewhere. Where we should be criticised it on failing to provide a proper pathway for them to break through at City (particularly Trippier).
 

Camilo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
2,924
Well interesting as this is, I'd rather see us be less shit at football.
 

BlueMoonOutcast

Rag in Disguise
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
1,073
Location
Exile
Supports
Manchester City
I understand that you're proud of playing youth, and rightly so, I love it when Foden gets to play for us. However, over a third of your 'academy minutes' are from an £89m signing.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
18,444
Supports
Mejbri
I understand that you're proud of playing youth, and rightly so, I love it when Foden gets to play for us. However, over a third of your 'academy minutes' are from an £89m signing.
Yes, that’s true. Still 20x what you do. Like others are saying, this will only increase for us this season. And we seem to have woken up to signing top prospects for the academy too.
 

Thunderhead

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
3,154
Supports
City
Is this like some sort of new net spend trophy? Across the league there were plenty of ex city academy players playing, wonder of all the academy players playing all those minutes how many would get a game for city on a regular basis.
 

Wumminator

The Qatar Pounder
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
22,933
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
Is this like some sort of new net spend trophy? Across the league there were plenty of ex city academy players playing, wonder of all the academy players playing all those minutes how many would get a game for city on a regular basis.

feck sake.

Obviously this isn’t as important as an actual trophy.

But acting like playing academy kids isn’t good is mental. Sneering at United fans because they’re proud of developing local lads.

Just feck off with that attitude. It is fecking great to see Rashford playing for us. My mate taught Angel Gomes and knows the family. Lingard visits the local school by me all the time. I know an assistant head at the school where Rashford went. It’s fecking class having local lads come in and compete with the worlds best. It means something. So feck off with your net spend. Our academy is something we should be immensely proud of.
 

Alemar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
7,528
None of Pogba, Lingard, or Rashford would get into City's starting XI, so yes it's impressive how many minutes they got for United last season, but they would've got significantly less at City.
Pogba would start for any team in the world.
 

Dec9003

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
8,922
feck sake.

Obviously this isn’t as important as an actual trophy.

But acting like playing academy kids isn’t good is mental. Sneering at United fans because they’re proud of developing local lads.

Just feck off with that attitude. It is fecking great to see Rashford playing for us. My mate taught Angel Gomes and knows the family. Lingard visits the local school by me all the time. I know an assistant head at the school where Rashford went. It’s fecking class having local lads come in and compete with the worlds best. It means something. So feck off with your net spend. Our academy is something we should be immensely proud of.
Spot on mate.
City for all its success is a plastic club, stats like this only highlight that further.
United has a lot of problems at the minute, but I for one would rather see the likes of Greenwood, Rashford, Gomes etc get matches than sell our souls like they did.
Big transfers are fun, and I'd love to get Dybala for example, but it means more to see a player with real connection to the club get a meaningful place in the squad.
Many of City's fans won't get that, because they're a club without tradition, just a rich mans plaything.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,515
Is this like some sort of new net spend trophy? Across the league there were plenty of ex city academy players playing, wonder of all the academy players playing all those minutes how many would get a game for city on a regular basis.
feckingh hell :lol:
 

RedCurry

Full Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
4,686
feck sake.

Obviously this isn’t as important as an actual trophy.

But acting like playing academy kids isn’t good is mental. Sneering at United fans because they’re proud of developing local lads.

Just feck off with that attitude. It is fecking great to see Rashford playing for us. My mate taught Angel Gomes and knows the family. Lingard visits the local school by me all the time. I know an assistant head at the school where Rashford went. It’s fecking class having local lads come in and compete with the worlds best. It means something. So feck off with your net spend. Our academy is something we should be immensely proud of.
Humble brags.
 

simonhch

Horrible boss
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
14,368
Location
Seventh Heaven
Supports
Urban Combat Preparedness
Is this like some sort of new net spend trophy? Across the league there were plenty of ex city academy players playing, wonder of all the academy players playing all those minutes how many would get a game for city on a regular basis.
You can feck right off with that sneering attitude. People are just talking about youth development. No one thinks it’s more important than winning the league. The league you bought.

And if you want to include ex-academy players across the league in the minutes, or even Europe, United crush you there too.
 

kundalini

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
5,750
Agreed on that. Bit of a grey area for "bought" academy products who come in fairly late. You could argue the same for the likes of Denis Suarez and Rony Lopes who City also bought in and then sold.

On general point though, City should get credit for developing the likes of Trippier and Mee even if they've gone on to success elsewhere. Where we should be criticised it on failing to provide a proper pathway for them to break through at City (particularly Trippier).
This recent article on BBC website has relevant stats for PL mins (any team) for academy products. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49156788

City 5th in this particular table. About half the total mins that United's academy products got last season in the PL.

There are lots of different ways of assessing the value of an academy. Generating revenue from selling academy products is certainly something I would take into consideration, as well as PL mins.
 
Last edited:

tenpoless

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
16,176
Location
Fabinho's forehead
Is this like some sort of new net spend trophy? Across the league there were plenty of ex city academy players playing, wonder of all the academy players playing all those minutes how many would get a game for city on a regular basis.
You wouldn't have to worry about that because you simply don't understand. Your club was founded 10 years ago and it's academy isn't ready for the savior Pep.
 

simonhch

Horrible boss
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
14,368
Location
Seventh Heaven
Supports
Urban Combat Preparedness
Spot on mate.
City for all its success is a plastic club, stats like this only highlight that further.
United has a lot of problems at the minute, but I for one would rather see the likes of Greenwood, Rashford, Gomes etc get matches than sell our souls like they did.
Big transfers are fun, and I'd love to get Dybala for example, but it means more to see a player with real connection to the club get a meaningful place in the squad.
Many of City's fans won't get that, because they're a club without tradition, just a rich mans plaything.
Nothing City have “achieved” means anything. It’s all bought. They’ve circumvented the entire development period almost every other club goes through, and spent unprecedented amounts on building a machine capable of winning titles. We’ve only just begun to scratch the surface of the extent of their corruption when it comes to offshore payments and the flouting of financial rules. fecking gross ownership, and they’ve eroded so much that was good about football. All their titles will have an asterisk next to them in the history books for financial doping.

The only way to actually beat the generally appalling trend in football, is to elevate the achievement. Any fecking clown with enough oil fields and a check book can buy titles; but for a club to come along and compete (and win) with a team full of academy players - would be fecking amazing. And shit all over these cnuts. That’s why I was routing for Ajax so much in the CL.

Say what you want about Liverpool - and they have some of the worst fecking fans in the world (they turn even the smartest followers into obnoxious cocksplats) - but they have put together their squad from their own resources, and with quality scouting. At least they are real club. Rather than the plastic apparition that is City.
 

Baby-faced Assassin

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
70
I realize there is nearly 10 years between the likes of Lingard and Garner so it's not a single generation but the United Academy is getting a lot of attention after the weekend's game. Is it really another special era for the club's youth or a sign of the declining quality of our first team squad and a symptom of Glazer penny pinching?

We may win nothing this season but I'm excited to watch us play again. Seeing us have pace, energy and so many young players looking to break through is great and as fans we deserve to get a bit giddy after the dour styles of LVG and Mourinho.

On Saturday we had 5 graduates starting and another two on the bench. Those 2 weren't just fill ins either they were first choice off the bench in the CB and striker positions. Our midfield back up is Mata, Matic and Fred, and it has been suggested that Gomes and Garner could replace 2 of those in the next 12-18 months. Likewise when Young finally retires we'll have Laird, O'Connor and Williams eyeing up his position. Finally if de Gea goes I could see Henderson getting a first shot at taking the no. 1 shirt.

Whilst the Class of 92 was special for the heights they reached (for me Beckham, Giggs and Scholes were all world class at points in their career), it's the sheer number in or on the cusp of the first team at the moment that stands out.

From those with more insight in to the academy would any of these lads have gotten a look in if breaking through in 1999 or 2008 or does being the 6th placed team create a smaller gap between first team and reserves? How many do you see as long term regulars in the first team squad and could we conceivably win a league in the next 5 years if half the squad is made up of these players?