Bruno wasnt needed in the Summer because we had accounted for Pogba playing all season. The question then is why are we so threadbare... back to the original OP.
Accounts show United will likely have to sell to buy big this summer
- Thread starter newsdevil
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If this is true, then the sale of Pogba for nothing less than 100M will give us 200M. With that money, we need a midfielder, winger and striker.
The notion that we have all the cash in the world to buy anyone or over-pay for anyone is the constant fallacy in the transfer forum. They dont understand why we need to bargain for every penny. I have been saying for a number of summers now that we just dont have that much cash to burn.
Which is different to the situation with Ole last summer how exactly?
I think that would make sense, although his wages are outrageous so i cant see any other clubs matching it which is likely to be the major stumbling block. Giving the game-time in Hendo is the best option IMO.
Which is why it was so infuriating in the Bruno thread people saying to pay the extra £10m just to get it over the line, ridiculous.
We will need another creative midfielder/attacker. If Bruno gets injured, we are back to square one again.
We need a CDM as well.
we can do this without spending pogba replacement amounts of money.
What is that supposed to mean?
Yes but it's a false economy, this is my point, why sell a top level player and gamble on a lesser quality player to replace him. Your still talking 50 million for a half-way decent CM anyway.
We've already allocated the outlay for Pogba, retain what we have already budgeted for and continue to add quality. That's how you build a top side. Not by selling one of your best players and gambling on a lesser player just because we have another similar player in the side.
Also I would like to see both Bruno and Pogba in the side if we can get a proper CDM in behind them. We could also play Pogba and Fred in a two, with Bruno ahead of them as the no. 10. That would work fine against a lot of sides.
My, my. Love the optimism!
It's clear that most of them have never managed a P&L before.
Pogba and De Gea are the only ones that hold decent value, no? I guess we could also consider offloading Martial if there happens to be a buyer.
Seems fine. Even losing both Pogba and De Gea sounds good to me, as long as we replace them with quality in the areas we really need. Attackers and midfielders basically.
Seems fine. Even losing both Pogba and De Gea sounds good to me, as long as we replace them with quality in the areas we really need. Attackers and midfielders basically.
Sanchez, Lingard, Pereira and Jones are unmovable unless the club decides to pay out their contracts. They can be sent on loans, but no club will match those contracts. So its up tot he players if they'd accept cutting their wages in more than half.
The reason we paid so much upfront was quite simply a result of buying in England.
Due to the massive operational income and healthy EBIDTA the club is perfectly able to go spending on Sancho and Grealish this summer. The buying clubs will have to accept quarterly installments however. Installments do not drain the "warchest" as it were, only upfront payment, sign-on and agent fees do that.
We have several months of the year left, we will add profit & tv money is the summer etc. We generate good amounts of cash, 80 to 100m a year from memory.
There is a lot of confusion with the club between cash generation (ignoring player fees) and accounting profit which fluctuates in so many ways. Our cash generation ignoring player sales is what the club is built around. You acquire and sell players and the cash can either go right away, go in installments, and for accounting is amortized over the contract (and im sure there are some tricks in this area too). I've yet to see a good visualisation of uniteds player amortization, but it would be interesting to help illustrate.
I recall a few people looking through the accounts last year and saying that the club can afford to pay 120m in amortizing fees a year and break even - so the cash ignoring transfer fees but including interest can support that level of net spending every year. I guess we have to remember that transfers also have attrition, so if you sell a player for 70 and buy a player for 70 you might have spend 10m + on top in agent fees, signing on fees, playing off clauses
We have spent not far off 120m net this summer and I'd expect us to be able to do so going forward, cash in the bank is clearly important but I'd imagine we have credit facilities that the more important thing is that we are spending sustainably and you can project paying off the transfer fees easily. At some point low cash will become a crunch though im sure.
There is a lot of confusion with the club between cash generation (ignoring player fees) and accounting profit which fluctuates in so many ways. Our cash generation ignoring player sales is what the club is built around. You acquire and sell players and the cash can either go right away, go in installments, and for accounting is amortized over the contract (and im sure there are some tricks in this area too). I've yet to see a good visualisation of uniteds player amortization, but it would be interesting to help illustrate.
I recall a few people looking through the accounts last year and saying that the club can afford to pay 120m in amortizing fees a year and break even - so the cash ignoring transfer fees but including interest can support that level of net spending every year. I guess we have to remember that transfers also have attrition, so if you sell a player for 70 and buy a player for 70 you might have spend 10m + on top in agent fees, signing on fees, playing off clauses
We have spent not far off 120m net this summer and I'd expect us to be able to do so going forward, cash in the bank is clearly important but I'd imagine we have credit facilities that the more important thing is that we are spending sustainably and you can project paying off the transfer fees easily. At some point low cash will become a crunch though im sure.
It's from Laurie Whitwell's article, I don't take him seriously.
For example, our cash balance in 2015 is like 150m, we almost spent 150m every season except 2018-19, It doesn't have an impact on our cash, it grew up to 300m.
We have several months before our season ended, we'll earn money from commercial and tv money
For example, our cash balance in 2015 is like 150m, we almost spent 150m every season except 2018-19, It doesn't have an impact on our cash, it grew up to 300m.
We have several months before our season ended, we'll earn money from commercial and tv money
Juventus? PSG? CHelsea?
Prediction: up to 100 mil spend funded by new player sales. No reserves or money from previous deals spent.
Really tempting to sell DDG , seeing we have Dean Henderson.
I doubt there'd be any takers. His salary demands would scare off 90% of clubs and those that remain would likely find better value elsewhere.
Baty was asked during the conference call regards the spend for the summer window and his answer suggests we're prepared to spend a large sum. He also mentioned that last summer we were forced to pay upfront fees for the likes of Maguire and AWB, which inturn would be beneficial for us in the coming summer window.
The numbers tell me we don't have 3 to 4 years to spend floundering in mid table under the banner of rebuilding. We will always have huge business concerns to tend to. AWB and Maguire really were a huge outlay. Our current transfer policy really is expensive. We'll likely be bent over the table for Grealish and Maddison too
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Even more reason to get into the Champions League. That's why those who say there's no point us being in the Champions League unless we can realistically win it, are talking nonsense. You don't have to necessarily go on and win the bloody thing to reap the benefits.
(Muppet Mode ON)
I think we ll spend a bit more. Imo it would be around 50 million + player sales.
Last summer Ducker said that we had 100 million net to spend.
We spent around 150 less Lukaku (75 m) = around 75 net. So in January we had 25 million left from summer. Bruno cost around 50 million upfront. So I m presuming that his purchase was funded from 25 m from last summer and 25m from next summer.
Considering we usually spend 75m in summer that leaves us with 50 m + player sales.
Player sales I expect: (I m being conservative)
Pogba 80-100 m
Smalling 20m
Lingard 20m
There might be others leaving on a free.
That leaves us with 170 to 190 m to spend.
I think we ll target Sancho and a midfielder for sure
Purchase of a striker will depends mostly on how Ighalo settles in as the club may opt to offer him a longer permanent contract.
If we target a striker, it much depends on whether we get Sancho or not as if he moves to us, it is expected that a big chunk of the budget in invested in signing him.
Exactly.
Obvious one is Pogba but his value seems to have dropped whilst inferior players like Grealish and Maddison have sky rocketed, we’re going to get ripped off.
Surprised to see so many say De Gea there’s zero chance he moves. He’s pocketing about 350k a week nobody is going to offer him half of that.
Surprised to see so many say De Gea there’s zero chance he moves. He’s pocketing about 350k a week nobody is going to offer him half of that.
You have to take into account the level of pressure the fanbase and the media put on the club for not 'backing' their beloved Jose. It's just another case of the fanbase's fetish for managers, causing damage to the best interests of their own club.
Lukaku was also bought for a huge fee (allegedly more than what we received from Inter). I'm guessing on the accounts, we're still paying for him in installments to Everton.
So many years of crap performances have finally catch up.
I don't think it has anything to do with 'fair play'. I think it's about sustainability. What happens when the super-rich owners decide to take up another hobby. Then the clubs are left to fend for themselves. It would be an absolute mess.
It was within a million pounds.
Not to derail too much into football manager mode, but I would assume that we would be looking to sell the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Smalling, and Rojo at a minimum. There will probably be other departures in the bigger picture if players like Grant, Chong, and Gomes are released. I don't think our spending will be effected massively, but we will probably only spend similar amounts to what we have in the last few years. We've spent less than £200m this season (Summer & January windows). Even with the Pogba sale, we will spend less than £200m over the next two windows combined.
Wait there a minute. All our sales were installments but all our purchases were cash upfront?
In Terms of player sales, we have plenty who i think the club & the fans would feel its a good idea, in many cases the players wouldn't be too sad leaving either so i don't. think its as desperate a situation as media will make out. the following are players, I have thought are players that would hopefully leave permanent in summer, fees i feel aren't entirely unrealistic and reported base salary of players from whats been released (obviously with bonuses etc. they get paid well more than that. I've included De Gea because some may feel with Henderson impressing on loan this may be right time to cash in on David and reduce wage bill.
I'm aware that whats likely to happen is a lot of these players struggle to find a buyer because high wages so would have to go on loan instead so this is more of a hypothetical Player Sales list
A lot of those Players are on loan, never feature, not proven at senior level so most leaving wouldn’t affect our Squad Numbers/ Quality.
- De Gea replaced for free by Henderson. Nice Fee, No Cost to replace, Much lower wages for a younger premier league proven GK
- Pogba leaving looks inevitable, if he leaves along with Lingard, Matic & Pereira - I'd say 3 signings 1CD, 1CM & 1CAM are needed.
- Grant, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Fosu Mensah, Borthwick, Chong, Gomes Leaving wouldn't really make any difference imo.
- If we got Sanchez and his wages gone for good that would be incredible.
That would be a huge amount off the wage bill (more when you factor bonuses), and one of the biggest transfer fees in, in history with little affect on the 1st Team.
We'd need 4 maybe 5 players in the summer to A. Replace those & . Improve areas like RW. We may even end up with a net spend profit, which if squad is improved and that much dead wood is gone, then great. even with new signings our wage bill would be down Massively and the club & Squad as a whole would look far healthier.
Potential In comings for Summer
I'm aware that whats likely to happen is a lot of these players struggle to find a buyer because high wages so would have to go on loan instead so this is more of a hypothetical Player Sales list
Player | Annual Base Wages | Potential Transfer Fee | |
| Paul Pogba |
| £100,000,000 | |
| David De Gea |
| £60,000,000 | |
| Andreas Pereira |
| £25,000,000 | |
| Phil Jones |
| £10,000,000 | |
| Marcus Rojo |
| £3,000,000 | |
| Chris Smalling |
| £12,000,000 | |
| Jesse Lingard |
| £20,000,000 | |
| Nemanja Matic |
| £0 - Contract End | |
| Timothy Fosu Mensah |
| £0 - Contract End |
|
| £0 - Contract End | ||||
| Tatith Chong |
| £0 - Contract End | ||||
| Andre Gomes |
| £0 - Contract End | ||||
| Lee Grant |
| £0 - Contract End | ||||
|
| £10,000,000 |
| Total | £79,560,000 | £240,000,000 |
A lot of those Players are on loan, never feature, not proven at senior level so most leaving wouldn’t affect our Squad Numbers/ Quality.
- De Gea replaced for free by Henderson. Nice Fee, No Cost to replace, Much lower wages for a younger premier league proven GK
- Pogba leaving looks inevitable, if he leaves along with Lingard, Matic & Pereira - I'd say 3 signings 1CD, 1CM & 1CAM are needed.
- Grant, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Fosu Mensah, Borthwick, Chong, Gomes Leaving wouldn't really make any difference imo.
- If we got Sanchez and his wages gone for good that would be incredible.
That would be a huge amount off the wage bill (more when you factor bonuses), and one of the biggest transfer fees in, in history with little affect on the 1st Team.
We'd need 4 maybe 5 players in the summer to A. Replace those & . Improve areas like RW. We may even end up with a net spend profit, which if squad is improved and that much dead wood is gone, then great. even with new signings our wage bill would be down Massively and the club & Squad as a whole would look far healthier.
Potential In comings for Summer
Player | Annual Base Wages | Potential Transfer Fee | ||||
| Dean Henderson |
| £0 | ||||
| CDM |
| £35,000,000 | ||||
|
| £45,000,000 | ||||
| CM/CAM |
| £70,000,000 | ||||
| RW |
| £100,000,000 | ||||
| Igalho (1 year deal, New ST in Summer 2021) |
| £5,000,000 |
Total | £28,444,000 a year | £255,000,000 |
Net Spend | -£51,116,000 a year | £15,000,000 |
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This made me smile in an out and out depressing thread. Thanks for that mate.
Certainly hope you are right. Accounts people tend to be conservative. With declining revenues my guess is Ed will reign in spending and save for the proverbial rainy day.