Actor Elliot Page (formerly Ellen Page) comes out as transgender

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Elliot is already taller, more masculine, better looking and has a deeper voice than him and all he has done so far is change his pronouns. Of course he is upset.
That’s rather fabulous Pexbo. I will steal this and almost certainly claim it as my own at the earliest opportunity in the real world.
 

DOTA

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This bit confuses me:



But stuff like this often confuses me!

It does seem as though they’ve got that bit wrong, no? If his preferred pronouns are he/they then their gender indentity is not as a woman, right?
I've not seen him go in to his identity at any length so can only guess based on what it usually means when someone who was previously seen as female comes out as 'trans and nonbinary' using he/they pronouns.

So within the basic three options of entirely male/entirely female/non-binary they are non-binary and then on the spectrum of non-binary they are closer to male than female. Thus either 'he' or 'they' are accurate enough, in their view.

"and describes himself as transgender and non-binary, meaning that their gender identity is neither man nor woman." would be accurate if they said 'neither entirely man nor woman' but that sounds a bit clunky I guess.
 
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broccoli

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Interesting news. She was one of those who despite the good looks never seemed attractive to me. Most certainly due to a not so femine temperament and general manners. Regardless, hope Elliot is a happier person now.
 

berbatrick

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What’s J.K. Rowling got to say about this?
Can't speak for her, but I have a TERF friend who said,
"female to male trans people are to be pitied snce they are escaping sexism, but in the wrong way, by fooling themselves. male to female i have no sympathy for.."
 

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Question which might have been answered already.

Is he now a heterosexual male?
 

DOTA

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Question which might have been answered already.

Is he now a heterosexual male?
Would assume so. Occasionally people continue to identify as a lesbian which can be rather confusing but most people who were previously known as a lesbian consider themselves hetero after coming out as male.
 

Gambit

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I must’ve missed that, what was all that about?
Sia has made a film. It has that lass she uses in her vids playing an autistic girl. It looks shit but twitter got its knickers in a twist for a few days. Now I got the, it being offensive to people with autism as I was also offended by how bad it looks but one of the complaints was how it was taking away the opportunity for an autistic actress.
 

2 man midfield

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Sia has made a film. It has that lass she uses in her vids playing an autistic girl. It looks shit but twitter got its knickers in a twist for a few days. Now I got the, it being offensive to people with autism as I was also offended by how bad it looks but one of the complaints was how it was taking away the opportunity for an autistic actress.
Fair enough, hadn't heard about that. Every role ever is an example of someone taking a role from another actor/actress, that's just the way it works. They're entitled to that view but at the end of the day it's her film and she can cast whoever she wants. Surely that's all there is to it.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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I think it’s best to refer to them as he (or they) even when talking in a past tense. That’s the advice my friend gave me when I asked about referring to them in a past sense anyway, I’m not fully sure on how it’s viewed in the wider trans community.
When a woman transitions to be a man and her "first woman to..." achievements are then referred to historically as a male achievement, does this affect women's struggle for equality and recognition?
 

Gambit

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Wait till you find out disabled actors are just like any other actor looking for work. It will really blow your mind.
When, like me, who's actually hired disabled actors for roles in films and commercials, my mind isn't blown.
 

Wibble

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Get vaccinated or kill Penna you selfish bastards
I've never understood why emphasis on gender is important, what does it matter? Can't being a person be an acceptable thing without caring about pro nouns and all the other bits?

I don't mean to disrespect anybody I just don't understand it and hoping someone can explain what's so important?
If someone can give you an insight that helps you understand that is of course useful but does is matter if you get it or not? If it matters to those affected, and it plainly does, why not just do it as it isn't much of an ask IMO?
 

ThatsGreat

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He was always a bit androgynous, so I he transition won't be that jarring I suppose.
 

entropy

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Where's my arc, Paulie?
When, like me, who's actually hired disabled actors for roles in films and commercials, my mind isn't blown.
I am sure there are plenty of non-disabled folks here who have worked with disabled people in various capacities. But that doesn't necessarily qualify them to step in or act as a proxy to someone who is actually disabled. Which is the main issue regarding the video and why it received such backlash.
 

Gambit

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I am sure there are plenty of non-disabled folks here who have worked with disabled people in various capacities. But that doesn't necessarily qualify them to step in or act as a proxy to someone who is actually disabled. Which is the main issue regarding the video and why it received such backlash.
I'm neither acting as proxy or claiming to over the issue. I was responding directly to your comment that I would be surprised to learn that there are disabled actors trying to find work. I fully understand why the video received such backlash. Some of it I believe is merited, some of it I don't. All of it going back to a question I wondered about Eliot.
 

entropy

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Where's my arc, Paulie?
My post was in response to this comment from you
Now I got the, it being offensive to people with autism as I was also offended by how bad it looks but one of the complaints was how it was taking away the opportunity for an autistic actress.
 

Gambit

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My post was in response to this comment from you
Which again, I'm not claiming proxy over. Anyway time to move on as I'm getting myself caught up in arguing over nothing again and veering the thread in the wrong direction.
 

entropy

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Where's my arc, Paulie?
I was responding to your post suggesting, some of the outrage regarding the video wasn’t merited. Especially the point about taking opportunities away from disabled actors. If that wasn’t the case, then you’re right.

IMO, Elliot can play whatever role they want. But the issue is the types of roles that will actually be offered to them. At the end of the day, that is what matters.
 

1950

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Would assume so. Occasionally people continue to identify as a lesbian which can be rather confusing but most people who were previously known as a lesbian consider themselves hetero after coming out as male.
I don't think that's how it works as I don't see how a non-binary person, by definition, can be either hetero- or homosexual, due to both terms being quite restrictive.

He described himself as queer, so I'd just go with that.
 

DOTA

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I don't think that's how it works as I don't see how a non-binary person, by definition, can be either hetero- or homosexual, due to both terms being quite restrictive.

He described himself as queer, so I'd just go with that.
You may not see it but many non-binary people identify as either heterosexual or homosexual.

EDIT - That sounds really dismissive and I guess it is but that is because I have been identifying publicly as non-binary for 16 years, long before I was aware of what the word for it was. My guess was based on the many enbies I've come across in that time. I'm not just making shit up! There's plenty of other topics for me to do that...
 
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1950

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Didn't mean to offend, sorry.

Could you expand on how and why binary terms are used by people who identify as non-binary? I genuinely thought it would be inappropriate, seeing how both terms inherently reflect on one's own gender and in their general use assume that one's gender would be binary (i.e. the same or the other).
 

DOTA

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Didn't mean to offend, sorry.

Could you expand on how and why binary terms are used by people who identify as non-binary? I genuinely thought it would be inappropriate, seeing how both terms inherently reflect on one's own gender and in their general use assume that one's gender would be binary (i.e. the same or the other).
No offense taken, don't worry! I don't know that I can enlighten you much because it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me either, for the same reasons you give there. I think you're right about what would be sensible, I just think you were wrong about the way people do currently choose to identify.

It's a conversation I've had many times and the answer just tends to be 'I just prefer that term' rather than any real argument about gender and sexuality. My guess would be a lot of it comes down to the fact that the only remotely common term for sexuality that doesn't imply a binary is 'pansexual' and even that is still a term that will be new to many people even reasonably familiar with queerness. My take is that I'd rather identify publicly as pansexual, cope with the confused responses, and hope it becomes more well known before too long but I can understand why others just pick from straight/gay/bi and there are times when I just call myself bi in order to avoid questions/cause the person I'm talking with to lose the will to live.