I thought that you were looking for a different player, cheater!
Adrien Rabiot
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's emphatic 4-1 win over Chelsea at Old Trafford and celebrate Manchester United being back in the Champions League. They also discuss United Women, takeover latest and transfer rumours before previewing the FA Cup Final vs. Manchester City.
What prompted my question was this post by @Walters_19_MuFcIf ten Hag is trying to get Rabiot's PSG version, then this makes sense. If he wants Rabiot to play like he does for Juventus, there is little point.
He may want both. One thing about Rabiot is that he is tactically flexible and disciplined. He is comfortable in a defensive or possession setup, as a 6 or an 8, he even adapted fairly well to the "Matuidi/Valverde" role when asked. Now I still think that we need a great technician in that midfield but if I'm being honest it would be in place of Bruno which is likely not popular.
I personally disagree and think he has some good qualities, albeit in a shite Leicester.
I was merely using him as an example who's "affordable", our scouting team should be able to identify players that have qualities in passing progression and creativity that would add depth and quality to our squad, which don't cost an absolute fortune.
Just FYI - Statman Dave made a video a little while ago which had the premise of bringing in players for multiple positions with the caveat of leaving 100 millions free to spend big on a striker. So ignoring the striker aspect of the premise he came up with three names:
He named
GK - Diouf (one of the standout GK of this years Ligue Un, but playing there the first time)
CM - Andre (from Fluminense) - fbref profile
CM - van den Boomen (from Toulouse) - fbref profile
Especially the midfield signings are obviously not top shelf stuff but they might fit stylistically very good. And the supposed outlay for those two would be 25 millions max as van den Boomen is a free agent in the summer while for Andre the club didn't accept an 18 million offer by Forest in the winter holding out for 20 million.
All in all - those players are out there. Especially if we consider United to be in such a pickle to re-invent the style and character of the team, we can't just box ourselves in thoughts like "we need Kane" or "FDJ is a must". Of course those are great players but not all transfers work out so it is better to bring in (more) people (in a shorter period of time) who fit the profile rather than the reputation bingo. Lets built a working unit and then we can handpick the best of the best.
Video I took inspiration from:
Note: I am not saying those two players would be great. All I want is showing that such players might are out there.
edit: oh and in regards of the actual thread: As long as Rabiot wouldn't be put on silly wages, I think, he would be a good addition. Especially if it meant that we let go some of the other midfielder.
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You disagree but you are wrong. His issues aren't linked to any team, they are individual, he has always been inconsistent, his positioning has always terrible, he puts next to no effort outside of maybe 15 minutes during his best games, he consistently fail to impose or even help his team control midfield. And his stamina is ridiculous, the man is gassed around 55-60 minutes since at least the age of 19 years old even though he has put no effort.
This might be a safer and smarter option. Would cost nothing and add depth and quality to our midfield. We then have more money for a striker.
Every time I have watched him for Leicester, I do not see what you're seeing in terms of effort or stamina - but Tielemans being decent isn't hill I'm willing to die on, so I am fine to admit I'm wrong on this one.
De Jong. Juventus plays differently so Rabiot‘s stats are hard to compare.This is Rabiot the last 365 days:
Guess, who this is:
No he’s just a poor midfielder. Even in his mega overhype days of scoring in an FA cup final it was clear. Players of that standard will sink us.
No engine, off the ball quality, lack of precision / tightness and not good enough on the ball to make up for it.
More rumblings on twitter again today that we're progressing in a deal for him. I don't mind this signing on a free actually. However i'd only be happy with this signing if we went on to sign another midfielder too. If we are likely to get rid of McT and DVB then we need 2.
Yeah without doubt but like I have already said we will need to prioritise which is more important out of that type of player and a mobile 8 like Caicedo
Yeah surely he can't be our ONLY midfield signing this summer can he?
He is reportedly asking Juventus for 10m euro net per year plus bonuses. That's around 18m euro pre-tax per year, which equates to just over 15m pounds or 300k per week, plus bonuses.
If you sign him on a 5 year deal he is going to cost 75m over the life of that deal, maybe more with the bonuses. If you sign a player like Kone for a 40m transfer fee and give him a 5 year deal at 100k per week, he is going to cost 65m over the life of that deal.
Frees aren't free.
Assuming Kone does well, there's zero percent chance he stays on 100k per week for the duration of that 5 years. We're seeing it with Martinez right now - he's expecting a significant salary increase already after performing to such a high standard. I get your point though. Rabiot + Madame Rabiot will definitely be pricey.
Yes, that's definitely true and a good point. I would add though that most clubs would not give him a new deal until at least two years into his contract so you would maybe expect it to bump up to around 75m over 5 years so still roughly as expensive as Rabiot. Also, if Kone fails as a transfer then in a couple years you have a player on 100k who is 24 and can be moved on, maybe at a loss, but still moved on. Whereas if Rabiot fails as a transfer in a couple years you have a 30 year old midfielder on 300k per week who you are stuck with for the life of his deal.
Ye good point you’ve made.
Are those really Rabiot's stats? Wow! As you said, if we get that version, then it's a no brainer.
If ten Hag is trying to get Rabiot's PSG version, then this makes sense. If he wants Rabiot to play like he does for Juventus, there is little point.
Can I get you to confirm that these stats are based on the top 5 big leagues?
Also, are you able to do the same thing for Ryan Gravenberch last season, please.
Thanks.
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Wants and gets are two different things. How competitive the bidding for his signature is will determine what he can attract. Let's be honest if Juventus want to pay that and he's happy there they'd probably already have snapped up his signature, but clearly there is some doubt, maybe on both sides.
The more his demands come back down to planet earth the more the free transfer begins to make sense economically. There aren't that many clubs that both want him and are able to pay him so there is likely to be some opportunity to get a better deal than 300k.
Worrying if he has regressed so much, then.This is Rabiot the last 365 days:
Guess, who this is:
Good one. You should get that written on a coffee mug.
He hasn't regressed, it's a totally different context. One is as a member of a possession team and the other isn't, the roles aren't even the same.
Those stats need to be put in context.
Those stats are from 4 full years ago. That’s the context. You’re naive if you think Rabbit can come here and pick up the way he played for PSG again so easily
He just turned 28, there's no reason to assume he can't. The team system and the role a player is asked to play is the biggest factor in his numbers.
If we had an unlimited budget then obviously I wouldn't want him, but given we have limitations and need to focus on CF and GK, then rabiot on a free is a great deal imo. So hope it happens.
That's not what I said and not the point that you made either. Rabiot hasn't regressed, he is a better player today but he plays for a very different team to PSG in 2019. One team averages 48.9 possession rate and the other 60.4. One is built to maintain possession while the other is built to play without the ball and break forward when they have a chance.
Also in terms of the figures themselves the least passes you make, the more each passes affect your successful passing rate. The same player if given 35 or 85 passes will have a relatively large range of passing rates. People use stats way too crudely and that includes fbref, the percentiles have no actual sense for individual players without context.
I agree.
Rabiots completion rate is the same as Locatelli. Look at Locatelli stats in his prior club. Furthermore, remember that Rabiot makes his passes 1/3 of his passes in the final third, Locatelli 1/10.
I think his «football education» from growing up in a possession team in France and playing in a more transition based team in Italy makes him pretty much perfect for the development Man Utd are going through. It will have improved him as a footballer.
Do you have anyone in mind? I think technically Bruno is excellent and one of the best players in his position. It would be difficult to upgrade on him. Wirtz, for example, has a long way to go. Players like Musiala, Pedri and Bellingham aren't happening.
Second image was Rabiot's stats at the end of his final season for PSG.
Like @JPRouve has pointed out, that's not showing regression, merely a completely different profile of a player, who plays for a team that uses him differently and a team that is unlike the PSG he used to play for.
According to fbref that is compared to similar players in the French league. It wouldn't change much, it it was compared to all 5 top leagues though. I remember that he was one of the players with the most touches, passes and best completion percentages in Europe back then.
Gravenberch:
He also seems slightly different from the player he was at PSG in my opinion. If he was still that version, Pep wouldn't waste time in signing him on a free. He's kept the running power and improved combativeness but the elegance and technique haven't progressed at all.
You're obviously more of a french expert but I remember lots of slick short passing with one and two touches under Blanc. I seriously doubt he's capable of playing the same way anymore or should I say as effectively.
He's still a good player but I see this being a Matic type of signing. Good but you're left wanting better after a short while.
I don't really have a player in mind, the likes of Pedri, Bellingham and Wirtz fits with the technical all action players that I would like but neither will be cheap and only Wirtz seems like a realistic target. Hopefully someone will appear in the next 18 months and fortunately Bruno has moved toward what I want to see, so we have time. In the mean time I wouldn't mind a gamble on Thuram alongside someone like Rabiot.
Possibly him + sabitzer? I don't see a big money CM signing. We've typically cut back after spending big over the past 10 years or so. Annoying because more spending is exactly what you need to go the next step but that never happens, the manager then fails in some way, we don't get CL, rinse and repeat.
Technically he is roughly the same player but he has embraced the dirty work which he was already doing with PSG when asked but it wasn't his bread and butter. And yeah, I agree with the Matic comparison.
A player doesn’t go from being 99th percentile at 24 years old to sub 40th in every passing stat at 28 solely down to a tweak in system. How that can’t be seen as regression is beyond me.
And more importantly if he can only perform that way in an already built possession side then he’s not going to add much value here. We may average 2% more possession than Juventus per game but we are very much a transitional based side. We require the central midfield to make us become better at possession, not the other way round of having the possession system in place and adorning players.
And more importantly if he can only perform that way in an already built possession side then he’s not going to add much value here. We may average 2% more possession than Juventus per game but we are very much a transitional based side. We require the central midfield to make us become better at possession, not the other way round of having the possession system in place and adorning players.
This is the best season he’s had in his career. But the numbers on paper said he’s regressed.
Check out Locatelli at his prior club and compare it to this season:
https://fbref.com/en/players/a8a874f1/scout/11611/Manuel-Locatelli-Scouting-Report
https://fbref.com/en/players/a8a874f1/scout/10730/Manuel-Locatelli-Scouting-Report
His best season as an attacking no.8. We don’t need one of those - we’ve got about 5 already.This is the best season he’s had in his career. But the numbers on paper said he’s regressed.
Bro relax. There’s nobody in our team that can play CM better than Rabiot other than Cass. Thats why we are after Him. He turns them overran top 9 away losses into wins.
Makes sense, as I said stats have to be analyzed in context. Many redcafe posters don‘t do that apparently.
Rabiot was very highly rated technically, but seen as an enfant terrible. He probably has grown up a lot by now.
Ofcourse system plays the most important role in passing stats, one player won't be playing all the passes by himself if the system is bot built to dominate the game and possession. You put peak Xavi in defensive first team, his numbers will drop significantly.
In possession system, there will be lot of short passes and with players always making angles to receive passes. In defensive counter attacking system, you end up attacking the goal with few passes only.
One player won't transform the system, it's the collection of players and coach.