Afghanistan

[Sherzad]

Nangarhar.

Yeah you are right.

 

[Distracted Steward]

I know a little about Behsood. For me, it's one of the "windsocks" for the next year or two.

Edit: Nevermind, I was thinking of Bati Kot.

 

[VidaRed]

I am from jilalabad province - district Behsood.

 

[Distracted Steward]

The fallout from recent Jalalabad bombing is one to watch. Ghani blames Islamic State (highly unlikely). I'm going with rogue Taliban or someone foreign like Lashkar-e Tayiba. One way or another, it's a departure from the norm.

If it was the Taliban it raises command and control issues--including the role of the Quetta and Peshawar Shuras.

Pakistani military operations in the Northwest Frontier Provinces has pushed some Tehrik-i Taliban Pakistan guys across. Hard to tell with those TTP baddies at the moment. They don't do succession well, and haven't settled into an identity in the power vaccum after some successful high-level targeting.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0ND20V20150422

 

[Raoul]

The fallout from recent Jalalabad bombing is one to watch. Ghani blames Islamic State (highly unlikely). I'm going with rogue Taliban or someone foreign like Lashkar-e Tayiba. One way or another, it's a departure from the norm.

If it was the Taliban it raises command and control issues--including the role of the Quetta and Peshawar Shuras.

Pakistani military operations in the Northwest Frontier Provinces has pushed some Tehrik-i Taliban Pakistan guys across. Hard to tell with those TTP baddies at the moment. They don't do succession well, and haven't settled into an identity in the power vaccum after some successful high-level targeting.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0ND20V20150422

IS are actually active in Afghanistan now. Its more a situation where insurgents are switching allegiance to them from the Talian since they are now the new kid, more feared kid on the terrorist block.

 

[Distracted Steward]

IS are actually active in Afghanistan now. Its more a situation where insurgents are switching allegiance to them from the Talian since they are now the new kid, more feared kid on the terrorist block.

"Active" may be a bit of a stretch. Like the Reuters article points out, Islamic State isn't in position to help out any Afghan militias pledging nominal allegiance yet.

The militias are declaring allegiance usually out of fatigue with the Taliban's wait to inherit Afghanistan or typical Pashtun feuding with other Taliban commanders. The closest to a commander that mattered to have switched to Islamic State was dead within about a week of declaring--killed by other Helmand and Taliban. The inroads just aren't there yet, but worth watching out for.

 

[Raoul]

"Active" may be a bit of a stretch. Like the Reuters article points out, Islamic State isn't in position to help out any Afghan militias pledging nominal allegiance yet.

The militias are declaring allegiance usually out of fatigue with the Taliban's wait to inherit Afghanistan or typical Pashtun feuding with other Taliban commanders. The closest to a commander that mattered to have switched to Islamic State was dead within about a week of declaring--killed by other Helmand and Taliban. The inroads just aren't there yet, but worth watching out for.

There are a good number of Afghans fighting in Syria, so I'm not surprised this is happening.

 

[Distracted Steward]

There are a good number of Afghans fighting in Syria, so I'm not surprised this is happening.

Of course. Jihadi homecomings always make for at least a little flux. I'd be curious to see how big of a niche they could carve out. Groups like Hebz-i Islamiya Gulbidin are on the wane, but there are other new players to take their places--even Taliban malitias drifting away from their government in exile.

Pashtun nationalism is a big,big part of the Taliban's mandate. A foreign caliph may be a little to much of it came down to it, but maybe the young jihadis returning from Syria/Iraq could be vicious enough to carve out and keep a small emirate. US drones and spec ops targeting would surely be brought down on that. Residual US air power would make swarming and expansion hard. I wonder if the appeal would stick if they were likewise forced to sit and wait to inherit.

I'm looking for some new sources for Syria and Iraq. Any you've found helpful?

 

[Raoul]

Of course. Jihadi homecomings always make for at least a little flux. I'd be curious to see how big of a niche they could carve out. Groups like Hebz-i Islamiya Gulbidin are on the wane, but there are other new players to take their places--even Taliban malitias drifting away from their government in exile.

Pashtun nationalism is a big,big part of the Taliban's mandate. A foreign caliph may be a little to much of it came down to it, but maybe the young jihadis returning from Syria/Iraq could be vicious enough to carve out and keep a small emirate. US drones and spec ops targeting would surely be brought down on that. Residual US air power would make swarming and expansion hard. I wonder if the appeal would stick if they were likewise forced to sit and wait to inherit.

I'm looking for some new sources for Syria and Iraq. Any you've found helpful?

Nick Paton Walsh of CNN has been doing some pretty good reporting on ISIS recruiting in Afghanistan.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/23/middleeast/afghanistan-isis-recruits/

 

[2cents]

I've seen some tweets lately showing that there are Hazara Shi'a fighting on the other side in Syria.

 

[Raoul]

I've seen some tweets lately showing that there are Hazara Shi'a fighting on the other side in Syria.

Interesting. Who are the tweets by ?

 

[VidaRed]

Interesting. Who are the tweets by ?

Them hazaras are in syria.

 

[Distracted Steward]

I've seen some tweets lately showing that there are Hazara Shi'a fighting on the other side in Syria.

Probably displaced Afghan Hazara out of Iran. Has MoIS or Revolutionary Guard Force written all over it, I imagine.

 

[2cents]

Interesting. Who are the tweets by ?

Just search for 'Hazara Syria' on Twitter, there's loads of stuff there. Here's a video claiming to show captured Hazara fighters:

 

[2cents]

More on Afghan Shi'a fighting in Syria:

Iranian doc follows Afghan fighters in Syria

Spoiler

An Iranian government-owned TV station recently aired a documentary about the role of Shiite fighters from Afghanistan in the Syrian civil war. The 23-minute video, "Moalem" (Teacher), tells the story of a Shiite fighter from Afghanistan who has been fighting in Syria for the past three years.

The documentary, aired by Ofogh TV — an unofficial media arm of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) — indirectly shows how the IRGC established the Fatemion Brigade, made up of Shiite fighters from Afghanistan, to support Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. This is probably the first time that the Iranian government has aired material that clearly shows that paramilitary forces from other countries are in Syria supporting Iran’s ally Assad.

"Moalem" describes how the Rif Dimashq city of al-Malihah, home to 20,000, was conquered. The protagonist says, “We fought for seven months until we were finally able to liberate al-Malihah. We closed in on the city from three sides and about 50 of our fighters were martyred before we liberated the city. The soldiers of the Fatemion Brigade had promised Sayyida Zaynab [the sister of Imam Hussein] that they would liberate the city. Al-Malihah is very important strategically and the opposition tried very hard to hold onto it. The Syrian army took action first and then the [Iraqi Shiite paramilitary] joined in and finally the forces of Hezbollah arrived. However, nothing could be done and eventually the Fatemion Brigade entered the field and liberated the city.”

In October 2014, Iranian media outlets reported that the Syrian army liberated al-Malihah and referred to Shiite fighters from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Iraq as “Defenders of the Haram.” According to the media, these fighters came to Syria from all over the world to resist the Sunni jihadists who are determined to destroy Shiite holy sites, including the shrine of Sayyida Zaynab.

"Moalem" includes footage of Alireza Tavasoli, the commander and founder of the Fatemion Brigade. According to Iran’s conservative media outlets, Tavasoli was a figure trusted by Quds Force Cmdr. Qasem Soleimani. Tavasoli, known as Abu Hamed, was a Shiite from Afghanistan who resided in Iran. He fought in Afghanistan's war against the Soviet Union as well as in the Iran-Iraq war. He was killed last winter in Syria.

Several prominent figures took part in Tavasoli's funeral in the city of Mashhad, such as Mashhad Friday prayer leader and well-known radical Ahmad Alamolhoda and Hassan Rahimpour Azghadi, whose conservative weekly programs appear on Iranian national TV.

Over the past two years, numerous Shiites from Pakistan and Afghanistan have been buried in Iranian cities like Mashhad, Qom and Tehran. According to a UNHCR report, nearly 1 million Afghans live in Iran. Although it appears that the majority of Afghans killed in Syria had been living in Iran previously, other reports indicate that some of the Afghans traveled directly from Afghanistan to Syria to fight.

Iranian opposition newspaper Kayhan London published an interview with an anonymous Afghan Shiite fighter in Syria who clarified how and why these fighters ended up abroad. He said that Afghan Shiites meet IRGC-affiliated clerics at local mosques, and these clerics introduce them to members of the IRGC. Eventually, these fighters travel via ground transportation to Iran, where they are trained for four months at a Tehran military garrison and then put on planes to Damascus.

His motivations for fighting in Syria were to earn a salary and to make sure that he will not be deported from Iran. He has been living with his family in the city of Qom for the past 10 years and for every three months he spends in Syria, he receives 6 million tomans ($2,115) and can take 20 days off to visit his family in Iran.

He says that originally, the Afghan and Pakistani forces were in the same battalion with the Syrians, but that these forces were later separated. “I don’t know what was the reason for this, but there were a lot of discussions among us. For example, with the prisoners of war, we had to hand them over to the Syrian forces, but later we realized that they were not being handed to the higher ranking officials. We don’t know what was happening to them.”

When asked if staying in Iran is worth risking his life, he responds, “Well, we take part in the jihad, we earn money and this is also a guarantee that we will not be deported. Iranian officials have told us that those who go to war will not be deported.”

Iranian parliamentary commissions have discussed and published several articles on the issue of Iranian residency for Afghan fighters. Reformist newspaper Shargh reports, “The National Security Commission of the parliament is looking to revise an article in the constitution and give more rights, including Iranian citizenship, to non-Iranian fighters, soldiers and elites.”

When a Shargh reporter asked Hossein Naghavi Hosseini, spokesman for the National Security Commission, whether this parliamentary proposal has anything to do with Afghan refugees volunteering to fight in Syria and Iraq, he answered, "There are no direct relations, but cases such as these motivate the parliament to make these suggestions. We have shared values and beliefs and we believe in safeguarding these beliefs."

Some Arab media outlets report that these Afghan fighters were deployed to Syria in late 2012, when the Syrian army had experienced several defeats. Afghanistan's Foreign Ministry recently denied that Iran has forced Afghan citizens to fight in Syria, instead asserting that individuals are motivated to fight in Syria by their own personal beliefs.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ori...fighters-brigade-civil-war.html#ixzz3ZIBGI7bd

 

[Distracted Steward]

Kunduz, the capitol of the northern province, is under attack by Taliban fighters allegedly backed by Islamic State-trained fighters.

The attackers are in control of a bordering district. The Afghan government claims to have has asked for air support only to have repeatedly denied.

Spoiler: BBC Article

The Afghan government has launched a major offensive against Taliban forces near the north-eastern provincial capital of Kunduz.

The Taliban have come close to the city in recent fighting, leaving it cut off and displacing tens of thousands.

A BBC correspondent who has flown into Kunduz has heard gunfire and artillery exchanges not far from its centre.

Afghan officials say foreign jihadists trained by the Islamic State (IS) group are fighting alongside the Taliban.

Provincial governor Mohammed Omer Safi told the BBC that the bodies of 18 foreign fighters, including two women, had been found.

Security forces and Taliban have been involved in a standoff for about a week after the insurgents launched an offensive on Kunduz at the end of April.

The insurgents are currently said to be massed in the Gul Tepa district on the southern outskirts of the city.


Correspondents say the advance is the most serious threat to a provincial capital in years.

Afghan army and police are involved in the fighting but there is no substantial help from foreign troops.

Governor Safi said the Afghan forces did not have enough air power and their helicopters lacked the armaments they should have.

Only a few thousand Nato troops remain in the country, largely in training roles, after their combat mission ended in December. They have turned down several requests to assist with air strikes.


People displaced by the fighting are spread across the city and rural areas of the province of Kunduz.

The prolonged fighting could lead to a bigger problem if there is a failure to bring in the harvest this month, says the BBC's David Loyn in Kunduz.

Kunduz supplies half of Afghanistan's rice crop, so delays could have a far-reaching impact, he adds.

International aid agencies are trying to assist the displaced, with the World Food Programme preparing emergency kits of flour, pulses, cooking oil and high-energy biscuits for 500 families, spokesman Wahiddullah Amini told Reuters news agency.

At the scene: David Loyn, BBC News, Kunduz
This is the first positive confirmation by a senior government official that Islamic State is operating alongside the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Until now, particularly in the south of the country, IS fighters have often clashed with the Taliban. But the governor said that the battle for the north is different, and here IS fighters are "supporting the Taliban, training the Taliban, trying to build the capacity of the Taliban for a bigger fight".

And, he said, they were more violent because they wanted to die in battle as martyrs.

As well from Afghanistan's immediate northern neighbours, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrgyzstan, the dead came from Chechnya and Turkey. They were wearing black headbands marked with the same Islamic verses used by IS in Syria and Iraq.

People are going to jump on the Islamic State element, but the biggest take away is the the attack on the provincial capitol city. It's not a raid. There're attempting to take it over. Rather they can hold it or not, it's a major step up for the insurgency--especially, especially the "little 't' Taliban" up there. There are a lot of sustainability questions yet to be answered, but it's anice important change.

The alleged Islamic State fighters is also significant. They bring new dynamics to the fight. Some--like Chechens--shift it more than others. One way or another, they're probably guys with ties to groups like IMU before linking up with IS.

For me, that's secondary because I don't see this being replicated in the Taliban heartland. Kunduz is very different than anything that falls more directly under Taliban's regional shuras in exile. Add in the fact groups get on in some places and fight in others, I'd be really hesitant to say we are seeing a new MO.

 

[milemuncher777]

I refuse to believe that Taliban and IS are fighting alongside each other. One calls Mullah Omar as Ameer and others follow Baghdadi which in itself is quite a big difference ideologically. Infact I can see both of this group clashing with each other in near future on the basis of this very ideology.

 

[Raoul]

I refuse to believe that Taliban and IS are fighting alongside each other. One calls Mullah Omar as Ameer and others follow Baghdadi which in itself is quite a big difference ideologically. Infact I can see both of this group clashing with each other in near future on the basis of this very ideology.

The Quetta Shura types are going to be facing some problems keeping their foot soldiers in line when IS come calling. As you said, they are Mullah Omar people and it would be a massive headache for them if Afghan insurgents begin randomly peeling off for the sexier, more international IS project. That said, its likely Baghdadi will die very soon and IS will lose land in both Iraq and Syria. The worst case scenario is if the Taliban and IS were to suddenly announce they are cooperating, which isn't likely since the Taliban are still chummy with Zawahiri, who is at odds with IS.

 

[Distracted Steward]

The Quetta Shura types are going to be facing some problems keeping their foot soldiers in line when IS come calling. As you said, they are Mullah Omar people and it would be a massive headache for them if Afghan insurgents begin randomly peeling off for the sexier, more international IS project. That said, its likely Baghdadi will die very soon and IS will lose land in both Iraq and Syria. The worst case scenario is if the Taliban and IS were to suddenly announce they are cooperating, which isn't likely since the Taliban are still chummy with Zawahiri, who is at odds with IS.

Keep in mind the differences between Quetta and Pershawar...even Miram Shah. To an extent, Islamic State is a little different for each of them. Likewise, they have different relationships with their subordinates.

 

[Distracted Steward]

Taliban attack Afghanistan's parliament, seize second district in north

Spoiler: BBC: Second Kunduz District Falls; Raid on Parliament

Taliban attack Afghanistan's parliament, seize second district in north

By Hamid Shalizi and Mirwais Harooni

KABUL | Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:31pm EDT
By Hamid Shalizi and Mirwais Harooni

KABUL (Reuters) - A Taliban suicide bomber and six gunmen attacked the Afghan parliament on Monday as lawmakers met to consider a new defense minister, and another district in the volatile north fell to the militants as they intensified a summer offensive.

The brazen assault on the symbolic center of power, along with territorial gains elsewhere, highlight how NATO-trained Afghan security forces are struggling to cope with worsening militant violence.

Fighting has spiraled since the departure of most foreign forces from Afghanistan at the end of last year. The insurgents are pushing to take territory more than 13 years after U.S.-led military intervention toppled them from power.

Monday's attack began as lawmakers met with the new acting defense minister, Masoom Stanikzai. He is the third candidate so far for the key security post, and his appointment must be confirmed by parliament.

A Taliban fighter detonated a car loaded with explosives outside parliament gates, said Ebadullah Karimi, spokesman for Kabul police, raising questions about how the driver got through several security checkpoints.

Six gunmen took up positions in a building near parliament, he said, but never breached the compound's gates.

Essa Khan, a soldier inside the parliamentary compound when the attack took place, said he shot dead three militants as they tried to storm inside before killing the rest in a prolonged gunbattle that also involved other troops.

"Everywhere there was smoke and dust," Khan told Reuters.

"I knew that it was the Taliban from the first moment. I grabbed this gun and shot three of them dead," added the 28-year-old, whose actions have played prominently on Afghan media in a rare PR success for the beleaguered armed forces.

Kabul police chief Abdul Rahman Rahimi said all lawmakers were safe. TV pictures showed the speaker sitting calmly and legislators leaving the building, engulfed in dust and smoke, without panicking.

A woman was killed and around 30 civilians were wounded in the attack, according to Rahimi.

He said the assailants were armed with assault rifles and rocket propelled grenades. Some lawmakers' bodyguards fired sporadically during the attack, hampering the response by Afghan forces, he added.

Police will investigate how the attackers got so close to parliament.

"We have appointed a delegation to find the weak point or points and report it back to us," Rahimi said.

"BIG FAILURE"

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid claimed responsibility.

"We have launched an attack on parliament as there was an important gathering to introduce the country's defense minister," he said by phone, referring to Stanikzai.

Farhad Sediqi was one of several lawmakers who criticized security agencies for not preventing the attack.

"It shows a big failure in the intelligence and security departments of the government," he said.

In Washington, a U.S. State Department spokesman said that despite the assault, Afghanistan's security forces were improving.

"Although the insurgents have executed a number of violent attacks since the announcement of the 2015 fighting season, including the attack on parliament, the (Afghan security forces) have demonstrated their growing capability to provide security," the spokesman said.

At the U.N. Security Council, the U.N. envoy to Kabul, Nicholas Haysom, said Afghanistan's security forces were "undeniably stretched" but resilient amid a push by insurgents for more territory and concerns that Islamic State militants were also seeking a foothold in the country.

Monday's attack fits a pattern of high-profile assaults on heavily fortified buildings in the capital. Last month, car bombs targeted the Ministry of Justice, and attackers stormed two guesthouses used by foreigners.

In 2013 the presidential palace was hit, and the U.S. embassy has been attacked several times, notably in 2011 when nine people were killed and 27 wounded in coordinated strikes on the embassy and other targets.

This year, the withdrawal of foreign forces and a reduction in U.S. air strikes have allowed Taliban fighters, who ruled Afghanistan with an iron fist from 1996 to 2001, to launch several major attacks in important provinces.

A district in the northern province of Kunduz fell to the Taliban on Monday, the second such loss in two days. Officials said the militants were able to take over when urgently needed reinforcements failed to arrive.

The Taliban captured Dasht-e-Archi district a day after hundreds of militants fought their way to the center of the adjacent district of Chardara.

"The Taliban managed to take it over this morning as the area has been surrounded for days," Nasruddin Saeedi, the district governor who escaped to the provincial capital, Kunduz city, told Reuters by telephone.

"There are many foreign fighters with heavy machine guns. We have asked for reinforcements, but none arrived."

Afghan soldiers were preparing a counterattack to retake both districts, another local official said.

Monday's heavy fighting was just three km (two miles) from the provincial governor's compound.

(Additional reporting by Feroz Sultani in Kunduz, David Brunnstrom in Washington and Michelle Nichols at the United Nations; Writing by Katharine Houreld; Editing by Mike Collett-White, Nick Macfie and Dean Yates)

The pressure is still on in Kunduz. Taliban, heavy weapons and foreign fighters alleged.

Khaama Press has since reported Chahar Darah District was retake by the Afghan National Army. If they can retake Dasht-e-Archi also, this would be a real confidence boost for them.

 

[Raoul]

Its going to get very interesting in Afghanistan over the coming months, especially since its fighting season again.

 

[Kaos]

The Speaker of the Afghan parliament has balls of steel:

Spoiler

Bomb goes off in Parliament and no fecks given

 

[Smores]

The Speaker of the Afghan parliament has balls of steel:

Bomb goes off in Parliament and no fecks given

Had to rewind this on the news last night as he's just so unmoved by it all. Love that he carries on speaking down the mic as well

Deserves his own meme this guy

 

[Distracted Steward]

Had to rewind this on the news last night as he's just so unmoved by it all. Love that he carries on speaking down the mic as well

Deserves his own meme this guy

A .gif of it made the front page of Reddit.

 

[Sherzad]

he was telling everyone to calm down it's just electrical fault (the blast)

 

[Distracted Steward]

he was telling everyone to calm down it's just electrical fault (the blast)

I saw plenty of sketchy electrical work in Afghanistan, but nothing that would shake a building.

 

[LeChuck]

At least eight Afghan soldiers have been killed in a US air strike on an army checkpoint in Logar province south of Kabul, Afghan officials say.

They say two US helicopters attacked the checkpoint in broad daylight on Monday. Several troops were injured.

The army commander in the area told the BBC that the checkpoint was clearly flying an Afghan flag.

Logar is an unsettled area where much of the countryside is in the hands of the Taliban.

Civilian and military deaths in coalition air strikes have been a contentious issue in Afghanistan since the US-led invasion of the country in 2001. They have provoked anger from the government and from many Afghan people.

The latest violence comes amid an increase in Taliban attacks on government and foreign targets during their summer offensive.

Last week Afghan Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar backed peace talks with the government.

The two sides agreed to meet again in the coming weeks, drawing international praise.

Well done, US intelligence! High fives all round. USA! USA!

 

[Distracted Steward]

Well done, US intelligence! High fives all round. USA! USA!

I guess you've never been there. Tragically, this is easier to do than one would think.

Logar is an insecure province with mobile Taliban checkpoints in the countryside. Afghan National Army (ANA) uniforms are available on the black--and sometimes open--market. With a high desertion rate and defections somewhat common, equipment falls into enemy hands as well. Coordination between the ANA and foreign militaries leaves a lot to be desired.

I'd have to see more before I'd speculate as to what happened.

What I am curious about is the authorization to fire. It would have been Hellfire missiles from a distance--in all likelihood. Were the camera feeds seen by the command node or was it the pilots' and weapons officers' best description that they had to go on.

 

[Raoul]

I guess you've never been there. Tragically, this is easier to do than one would think.

Logar is an insecure province with mobile Taliban checkpoints in the countryside. Afghan National Army (ANA) uniforms are available on the black--and sometimes open--market. With a high desertion rate and defections somewhat common, equipment falls into enemy hands as well. Coordination between the ANA and foreign militaries leaves a lot to be desired.

I'd have to see more before I'd speculate as to what happened.

What I am curious about is the authorization to fire. It would have been Hellfire missiles from a distance--in all likelihood. Were the camera feeds seen by the command node or was it the pilots' and weapons officers' best description that they had to go on.

Having spent a lot of time in Nangarhar and Kunar, i can see how such a thing could happen. The terrain is insane in some of those parts and reliable Intelligence is sometimes hard to come by.

 

[VidaRed]

So fire missiles on the basis of unreliable intel ?

 

[LeChuck]

I guess you've never been there. Tragically, this is easier to do than one would think.

Logar is an insecure province with mobile Taliban checkpoints in the countryside. Afghan National Army (ANA) uniforms are available on the black--and sometimes open--market. With a high desertion rate and defections somewhat common, equipment falls into enemy hands as well. Coordination between the ANA and foreign militaries leaves a lot to be desired.

I'd have to see more before I'd speculate as to what happened.

What I am curious about is the authorization to fire. It would have been Hellfire missiles from a distance--in all likelihood. Were the camera feeds seen by the command node or was it the pilots' and weapons officers' best description that they had to go on.

I've never been Afghanistan, but I've been places in Pakistan where farmers pray for rain as it means the US don't operate drone strikes when there is heavy rainfall. I've also spent time with many of these people who have no affiliation to any 'terrorist' organisation, and have had their homes and livestock ruined. Yes - in this instance, it wasn't a drone strike, but I know the terrain is similar (especially the NW of Pakistan is analogous with Afghan), but with all of the US' intelligence, and funding, you'd think they make sure they get their targets right before they undergo a destructive indiscriminate killing. If the 'intelligence is hard to come by' I'd advise not bloody shooting in the first place! Or wait until you can have some reliable information, otherwise it's needless bloodshed. But who cares, as long as its non American blood, amirite?

 

[2mufc0]

Amazing, then they ask what motivates these extremists? Erm sorry we killed your parents and children because of our poor camera feed and unreliable intelligence.

 

[JustAFan]

I've never been Afghanistan, but I've been places in Pakistan where farmers pray for rain as it means the US don't operate drone strikes when there is heavy rainfall. I've also spent time with many of these people who have no affiliation to any 'terrorist' organisation, and have had their homes and livestock ruined. Yes - in this instance, it wasn't a drone strike, but I know the terrain is similar (especially the NW of Pakistan is analogous with Afghan), but with all of the US' intelligence, and funding, you'd think they make sure they get their targets right before they undergo a destructive indiscriminate killing. If the 'intelligence is hard to come by' I'd advise not bloody shooting in the first place! Or wait until you can have some reliable information, otherwise it's needless bloodshed. But who cares, as long as its non American blood, amirite?

Of course sometimes the only way you know for sure if the Intel was good or bad is after the fact. Same with whether the info is reliable or not.

 

[Kaos]

Are drones producing a tangible positive effect in the war on terror? Or are they actually radicalising more people than the number of terrorists they allegedly pacifiy?

If its the latter you have to wonder what exactly is the point.

 

[LeChuck]

Are drones producing a tangible positive effect in the war on terror? Or are they actually radicalising more people than the number of terrorists they allegedly pacifiy?

If its the latter you have to wonder what exactly is the point.

If the tangible effect you want is to perpetuate and continue this mindless cycle of violence and retribution under a false pretense, then yea, A* for drones.

Of course sometimes the only way you know for sure if the Intel was good or bad is after the fact. Same with whether the info is reliable or not.

This isn't a science experiment where we are testing the validity of results. These are people's lives being lost. Innocent people, with no affiliation, from rural backgrounds, largely uneducated, are being so casually and carelessly killed on a continual basis. It's exasperating and saddening. Who exactly is being held responsible here? Who is accountable? I can produce countless statistics for the amount of innocent civilians and children killed by US drones in Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. The same thing is happening in Yemen. It's ridiculous. (And before anyone nit picks, yes in the most recent example, they are the Afghan army not civilians, I can see that, but I'm coming from a wider point).

 

[Raoul]

Are drones producing a tangible positive effect in the war on terror? Or are they actually radicalising more people than the number of terrorists they allegedly pacifiy?

If its the latter you have to wonder what exactly is the point.

They are easily the most effective tool in the "war on terror", since they not only take a lot of nutters off the battlefield, but are also completely debilitating from a psychological perspective in eastern Afghanistan and the tribal Pakistani areas. Terrorists are now well aware they can be eliminated irrespective of where they are. Its basically a highly effective tool to terrorise the terrorists.

 

[LeChuck]

They are easily the most effective tool in the "war on terror", since they not only take a lot of nutters off the battlefield, but are also completely debilitating from a psychological perspective in eastern Afghanistan and the tribal Pakistani areas. Terrorists are now well aware they can be eliminated irrespective of where they are. Its basically a highly effective tool to terrorise the terrorists.

A nonsense post. How can they differentiate between a terrorist and a civilian if they strike indiscriminately? They are completely debilitating for children, women, farmers, innocents in those same areas. How you can write what you've written with a straight face is beyond me. There is an immeasurable and irrefutable amount of evidence which has highlighted the needless and unnecessary destruction they have caused.

 

[Raoul]

A nonsense post. How can they differentiate between a terrorist and a civilian if they strike indiscriminately? They are completely debilitating for children, women, farmers, innocents in those same areas. How you can write what you've written with a straight face is beyond me. There is an immeasurable and irrefutable amount of evidence which has highlighted the needless and unnecessary destruction they have caused.

It seems you're just discovering that innocent people die in wars. Having actually been in that area, I've seen the good and the bad, so I actually have a leg to stand on here. Bottom line, drones are highly effective which is precisely why not coincidentally, our Nobel Peace Prize winning President has greatly expanded their use over his war mongering predecessor.

 

[LeChuck]

It seems you're just discovering that innocent people die in wars. Having actually been in that area, I've seen the good and the bad, so I actually have a leg to stand on here. Bottom line, drones are highly effective which is precisely why not coincidentally, our Nobel Peace Prize winning President has greatly expanded their use over his war mongering predecessor.

Oh yea, that's why I'm assuming you were all for Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. What an absolute joke. And Obama winning the Nobel prize. I'm glad he's got that on his CV. It's a real achievement, and not a load of sanctimonious bollocks. The fact that you would use Obama winning the Nobel prize as a facet of your argument is hilarious.

I didn't know that the Afghan people had signed up for war. I'm sure the relatives of the villagers who've died over the last decade can shrug their shoulders and say 'hey, it happens!' in war.

The bottom line here is that you would rather kill all, which is a pathetic stance to take. As long as it's not US blood being spilled, who cares right?

 

[Raoul]

Oh yea, that's why I'm assuming you were all for Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. What an absolute joke. And Obama winning the Nobel prize. I'm glad he's got that on his CV. It's a real achievement, and not a load of sanctimonious bollocks. The fact that you would use Obama winning the Nobel prize as a facet of your argument is hilarious.

I didn't know that the Afghan people had signed up for war. I'm sure the relatives of the villagers who've died over the last decade can shrug their shoulders and say 'hey, it happens!' in war.

The bottom line here is that you would rather kill all, which is a pathetic stance to take. As long as it's not US blood being spilled, who cares right?

We're talking about drones not the A-Bomb. Drones are targeted to take people out in cars and physical structures whilst leaving the rest of the surroundings unharmed, which is a far cry from using atomic weapons, so in that sense your analogy is woefully flaccid.

The drones are generally used more across the border in the tribal areas and have been effective in destabilizing TTP operations and removing their leadership. If the cost benefit was too high on the cost side, they wouldn't continue. The fact that they have been effective as they are is the main reason they won't just continue, but will be increased in the future, especially as US troops wind down.