[Quagmaguire]

I'd imagine that opposition players would feel much more irritated by a player who could shoot, or dribble, or pass, or cross, or do something that could actually hurt them. He's statistically poor to awful at all of them.

I'd put money in him being more irritating to his teammates, given his penchant for ignoring runs and better placed teammates to lose the ball through wasteful shooting or poor dribbling.

He's simply nowhere near good enough for the PL, as he's physically outmatched by most of the players he comes up against.

He created assists vs Arsenal, Liverpool, Lyon & scored against Newcastle.

I don't know why people think he can't do it vs PL teams because he has done it now for 3 seasons and he is still only 20.

Garnacho doesn't give the opposition a break, whether it's easy to defend against him or not - he puts the opposition on the back foot because he is going at them like a crazy bull drinking red bull.

This is why Garnacho is absolutely immense off the bench because when he uses that direct energy against tired opposition then he becomes a complete a*rsehole to play against.

That Lyon Belgian kid did the same against us & it shows why we shouldn't just have the same type of player to have for every hole in our squad because we need variety for different occasions & purposes.

 

[Irwin99]

I’m still on the fence as to whether I think he should go in the summer but I think people are underrating him on here.

Said it before but he’s not leaving this team because he’s the only player who has that directness about him. I’m not sure we have another player in the squad that makes that movement for the first goal against Lyon (maybe Amad but that’s it). And even when he’s frustrating and terrible he’s in the game and a threat to defenders, and rarely anonymous.

 

[Dion]

Why can't this practice happen on the training ground, instead of killing so many of our attacks? Also, how would he limit his natural game in a way that wasn't artificial?

Already covered this, it's obviously happening on the training ground too. You can't train one thing then just do another come game time, that would be an absolute mindfeck for a player.

The issue with your argument is that it can be used to justify any continually poor play from anyone on the team. Hojlund will get better at wrestling with centre backs, his natural game, if he keeps doing it. The same goes for Onana's unconventional saves that often bounce back to the opposition, Lindelof being passive and easily bullied, basically every flaw our players have they can get better by practising.

This argument doesn't work, because you don't really want your strikers wrestling centerbacks or your defenders being bullied. You want your wingers to be taking the volume of shots Garnacho is taking.

It's like arguing Hojlund should stop making runs because his runs aren't successful. You want your strikers to make runs, he just needs to be better at them.

 

[Dion]

Apologies for having eyes and therefore accurately describing what happens in our games.

Again, straw man.

 

[Zumbi]

Again, straw man.

Have you ever considered googling what a straw man is? It might help prevent you from misusing that phrase over and over again.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Have you ever considered googling what a straw man is? It might help prevent you from misusing that phrase over and over again.

Scarecrow

 

[The Hilton]

He created assists vs Arsenal, Liverpool, Lyon & scored against Newcastle.

I don't know why people think he can't do it vs PL teams because he has done it now for 3 seasons and he is still only 20.

Garnacho doesn't give the opposition a break, whether it's easy to defend against him or not - he puts the opposition on the back foot because he is going at them like a crazy bull drinking red bull.

This is why Garnacho is absolutely immense off the bench because when he uses that direct energy against tired opposition then he becomes a complete a*rsehole to play against.

That Lyon Belgian kid did the same against us & it shows why we shouldn't just have the same type of player to have for every hole in our squad because we need variety for different occasions & purposes.

That Lyon Belgian kid showed an ability to beat players that Garnacho simply doesn't have.

People think he can't do it vs PL teams because he can't, the stats are quite clear on that. He has 6 goal involvements, 3 of which were against relegated team.

As for not giving the opposition a break, reality is the opposite. He gives them a break every time he shoots waywardly, or loses the ball attempting to dribble.

You're right that we want a variety of players, but that variety shouldn't include holding us back and killing most of our attacks.

I'll agree he's better off the bench, as his poor physical characteristics aren't quite as poor against tired defenders, but immense is nonsense. He's nowhere near good enough for where we want to be.

 

[The Hilton]

Already covered this, it's obviously happening on the training ground too. You can't train one thing then just do another come game time, that would be an absolute mindfeck for a player.


This argument doesn't work, because you don't really want your strikers wrestling centerbacks or your defenders being bullied. You want your wingers to be taking the volume of shots Garnacho is taking.

It's like arguing Hojlund should stop making runs because his runs aren't successful. You want your strikers to make runs, he just needs to be better at them.

As for wanting our wingers to take the volume of shots that Garnacho does, the only reasoning I could see from you is because it's similar to the volume Eze and Cunha take, because they're both wanted by posters on here? Let me know if there are posts I'm missing, but that alone is definitely faulty logic, as it ignores all the other aspects to their respective games. For example, they're both decent dribblers, whereas Garnacho is one of the worst players in the league at it. They're also better crossers, better chance creators, both have better defensive stats, and in Cunha's case he's a much better shot too.

In Cunha's case, taking that volume of shots is less of a problem because he's so much better at it than Garnacho. His shot conversion rate is over double.

The underlying assumption that, because he's taking all these shots, and running down so many blind alleys, that he'll automatically get better at it is faulty too. It certainly hasn't so far, he won't suddenly develop the physical tools to stop being outpaced and overpowered by most of the players he comes up against either. On top of that, I don't see either improving until he fundamentally reworks his game to stop having his head down so much, as he seems to be forced into a choice of knowing where the ball is or where everyone else is on the pitch around him.

 

[Dion]

Have you ever considered googling what a straw man is? It might help prevent you from misusing that phrase over and over again.

I think you'd benefit from learning what they are more than I would.

 

[Tincanalley]

I like Garnacho. He is young and has ability and can learn. I think he will be great next year.

 

[Dion]

As for wanting our wingers to take the volume of shots that Garnacho does, the only reasoning I could see from you is because it's similar to the volume Eze and Cunha take, because they're both wanted by posters on here? Let me know if there are posts I'm missing, but that alone is definitely faulty logic, as it ignores all the other aspects to their respective games. For example, they're both decent dribblers, whereas Garnacho is one of the worst players in the league at it. They're also better crossers, better chance creators, both have better defensive stats, and in Cunha's case he's a much better shot too.

In Cunha's case, taking that volume of shots is less of a problem because he's so much better at it than Garnacho. His shot conversion rate is over double.

The underlying assumption that, because he's taking all these shots, and running down so many blind alleys, that he'll automatically get better at it is faulty too. It certainly hasn't so far, he won't suddenly develop the physical tools to stop being outpaced and overpowered by most of the players he comes up against either. On top of that, I don't see either improving until he fundamentally reworks his game to stop having his head down so much, as he seems to be forced into a choice of knowing where the ball is or where everyone else is on the pitch around him.

Well actually, it's more because his shot volume is pretty much bang average for a wide forward. Those two were just examples from players who play in similar teams. Cunha isn't actually all that better at shooting than average, certainly this season his conversion rate is outright deceptive. He's disgustingly over-performed this season to a level nobody is going to sustain (he's the league leader in this with almost twice his xG), he's pretty average at finishing if you look across a wider sample size. Though it's worth highlighting when he was Garnacho's age he was similarly under-performing, it's not actually all that uncommon. He finished below his xG in 5 of his first 6 seasons.

Except that's not the assumption, nobody said he will automatically do anything. You've actually touched on the solution yourself (partly) below in the second bolded bit. While I fundamentally disagree that a 20 year old winger isn't going to improve physically, I think it's pretty much guaranteed, there's a lot of things he can do (like making more intelligent runs with the ball across defenders rather than trying to run straight past them) or, as you said, actually start running with his head up more so he can attack space rather than being shepherded into dead ends, that will help him significantly in all aspects of his game.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Great game from Garnacho. He’s learning that inside forward 10 role so well. Taking care of the ball, and putting some really high quality low crosses and cutbacks into the box with his weaker foot.

The touch against Lyon and there was another touch in the first half just shows me that this guy has a lot of potential. People forget how young he is.

 

[Superunknown]

I thought he played well today. The only player in our attack who looked like creating something.

 

[Godfather]

Did well today. Ran his socks off and has some nice touches

 

[bgoodall]

Had three amazing crosses for Hojlund, Bruno, and Mount. None put it on target. Thought he advanced the ball really well today and didn’t force things. My motm.

 

[Ballache]

He should have had like 3 assists today.

 

[11101]

Fact is in most games he is the only player giving opponents something to think about. Unless we magically conjure up a title winning frontline, he's our best forward.

He has also adapted his game under Amorin and is making smarter decisions.

 

[Raoul]

Played relatively well given his option in the box was Hojlund.

 

[Isotope]

Excellent game. He must be the most fouled player on the pitch. His ability on running at defenders is a great asset as a 10 on this Amorim's system.

 

[Quagmaguire]

He is not a progressive penatrative passer in front of the opposition but I find his cut back crosses are world class when he gets in behind the opposition.

Alot of unnecessary criticism on this kid & whilst I like him because he offers us something different to the system players - I think he will be a great player for a manager who utilises the tactics to get the best use out of him.

I also think he has improved this season. Much better work rate & defending, much better crossing but regressed shooting probably because he is playing deeper.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Still frustrating but much better.

 

[DRJosh]

one of our more positive players. In a better team, he will shine.

 

[Frank White]

Looked good for the most part and got his head up to actually put in some decent balls. Definitely one of the better performers but doesn't say much considering we've just been beat by Wolves.

 

[Bobski]

He needs another yard of pace to play the way he wants to play. Makes good runs, creates separation but then gets caught fairly easily.

 

[saik]

For me that was probably his best game for us. A lot less selfish today. If he keeps doing that every week there might still be some hope left. Seemed like he's learning how to use his first touch to get away from players. That assist vs Lyon and there were couple of instances today as well.

 

[jem]

I thought he was excellent today. Unselfish, dynamic, hardworking…everything you’d hope to see.

 

[Superunknown]

I thought he was excellent today. Unselfish, dynamic, hardworking…everything you’d hope to see.

We were two attackers short in that game. One next to him for him to bounce off, and that one player in front of him to either finish things off or to make space to allow Garnacho to get into the box. Amad next to Garnacho and a higher quality striker in front of both, and we win this game easily.

 

[Godfather]

I thought he was excellent today. Unselfish, dynamic, hardworking…everything you’d hope to see.

I agree. Not sure where that came from but he seems to have it in him

 

[MadDogg]

Had a good game today. Did his job in terms of creating for others, but everyone else (even Bruno) let him down today. Was kicked and fouled all over the pitch as well.

 

[Oldham]

Very good today.
Would be stupid to sell him...

 

[arnoldS]

How was he excellent today? Are the standars so low now? He can't dribble past a player, his shooting technique is horrible, he cant finish and more often then not his final decision is the wrong one. He runs a lot and creates space but thats about it. I hope to god that we replace him along with Rasmus in the next window, at least we would get a bit money for him.

 

[Frank White]

Very good today.
Would be stupid to sell him...

Very debatable. 60m and we'd be stupid not to. He was decent today against a Wolves team that looked shite. IMO next season he shouldn't be one of the front three that start week in, week out. Off the bench no problem but if a big transfer comes in for him I'd take it.

 

[Charlie Foley]

Today was good. Should have had about 3 assists if someone on our team could finish

 

[The Hilton]

How was he excellent today? Are the standars so low now? He can't dribble past a player, his shooting technique is horrible, he cant finish and more often then not his final decision is the wrong one. He runs a lot and creates space but thats about it. I hope to god that we replace him along with Rasmus in the next window, at least we would get a bit money for him.

He was better than usual today, but you're correct that there's quite an overreaction in this thread, I've seen excellent and even world class, it's crazy.

He created 3 chances, with an xA of 0.33, worked hard as usual, attempted the most crosses in the match with a 0% success rate, lost the most duels in the match, in general it was a mixed bag.

 

[Quagmaguire]

The same people genuinely hate him & turn to this thread day by day.

Sell him if we get good money but the element of support people give our players and young ones who work hard is absolutely disgusting & I put them as bad as Woodward and the Glazers for our downfall.

Shitting on nearly every player that is the new hotspot like its a tik tok hype that everyone joins.

Glad that Maguire stuck a finger up their arse and shut them up for a whilst because plenty of these fans know shit all about football.

 

[dubplate warrior]

He has improved in the last couple of games. Still think he's not it moving forward.

 

[Frank White]

The same people genuinely hate him & turn to this thread day by day.

Sell him if we get good money but the element of support people give our players and young ones who work hard is absolutely disgusting & I put them as bad as Woodward and the Glazers for our downfall.

Shitting on nearly every player that is the new hotspot like its a tik tok hype that everyone joins.

Glad that Maguire stuck a finger up their arse and shut them up for a whilst because plenty of these fans know shit all about football.

Genuine question what comment has warranted that reply? And that bit might actually be one of the strangest comments I've seen on here.

 

[dubplate warrior]

The same people genuinely hate him & turn to this thread day by day.

Sell him if we get good money but the element of support people give our players and young ones who work hard is absolutely disgusting & I put them as bad as Woodward and the Glazers for our downfall.

Shitting on nearly every player that is the new hotspot like its a tik tok hype that everyone joins.

Glad that Maguire stuck a finger up their arse and shut them up for a whilst because plenty of these fans know shit all about football.

Bizarre comment.

 

[Quagmaguire]

Genuine question what comment has warranted that reply? And that bit might actually be one of the strangest comments I've seen on here.

Bizarre comment.

The closes way I can describe our fanbase are the people who voted for Brexit. Our fanbase always vote for the next big change and vote for the brexit but when all the problems happen everyone starts pretending like they never voted for it in the first place

Did our fans want Pogba? 5 years later our fan base act like they never wanted him as our most expensive player ever.

What about Ten Hag? I remember about how many fans wanted to sack our manager to hire Ten Hag & now suddenly he is the worst manager in United’s history, its suddenly everyone else's fault except the fans who were screaming their happiness when he became a choice put on their table.

Remember Van Gaal? All our fans wanted Mourinho after SAF, we got Van Gaal a couple years afterwards but our fans still wanted Mourinho and so we got a Mourinho past his prime and a manager that was tactically completely opposite of Van Gaal because he was "too boring" for the fan base and finished 5th or 6th after winning the FA Cup aswell.

Amorim looked like the new guy and all the fans wanted him because his little team was beating big teams like City & Arsenal but suddenly our fans don't like seeing United play like a small team.

Player wise?
Bruno - our best ever player in our last ten years has been targeted as the core problem for the whole teams downfall which is crazy. He continues to perform and the fans act like their voice is never heard.

Maguire - a huge transfer fee that Maguire could not control & was never a player that didn't try hard but was targeted and turned to meme on media across the world. Do these fans wish this happened to them in their job? Maguire is strong mentally as he is physically and comes back - suddenly what happens? Fans pretend they did nothing wrong & blank our the past like it never happens. Maguire performs well, everyone is dancing, just one bad performance and the fans start shouting about how his resurgence was just a fake and he is still rubbish. Didn't react quickly enough to 2nd Lyon goal and the fans were already turning him back in to a meme on the Internet- last minute equaliser and then what do the fans do? Pretend like they never said anything bad and move on.

Rashford - The complete opposite of Maguire, someone who is obviously mentally weaker than Maguire and felt like he needed a new challenge from the force Fans went to target him. Interestingly Rashford's hate was mostly through media & shows that fans can be heard outside the stadium. United fans would make it obvious that if he tried hard that they wouldn't be against him and wouldn't have the pressure on him. Mental problems or phsyical/injuries pressure was never taken to these supporters head showing how one dimensionally fans can think.

Antony - We all love players that work hard for the badge right? People would say it to Rashford's workrate but suddenly Antony does that and hard work is simply not good enough and so Antony turns to a purely left footed meme that now finds happiness in a free stresless Spain than a moody pressureful old Trafford.

Sancho - Also Felt happy outside United because the pressure fans put & instantly talked about this when moving to Chelsea

Zirkzee - 30 mins in to a game fans boo him off not even playing half a season of games and suddenly he has started to improve and atleast get the fans off their seats and fans again hide under the duvet like they did nothing wrong.

Garnacho - Rashford leaves so United fans need to target a new fault in the group of players. Fans hear a completley media driven news about how we are struggling PSR wise without having no idea about how much money we have. At the same time Napoli who are a better team than us in the world target Garnacho possibly to replace Kvartshekellia. Fans believe this would make us rich enough to sign the next shiny toy. But what happens if the next shiny toy turns to a flop? Every fan will pretend they never asked for it and it's everyone else's faults because their hands are clean. Ever since this PSR wallet has entered some our fans head, Garnacho is targeted as a player that many would drive to the airport themselves without knowing our economic background in the first place.

Mctomminay - Constantly told out to be not good enough for us and used as a mark of our demise but suddenly we are 16th and suddenly people are questioning if he played in thr wrong position after seeing his performances for Scotland and Napoli.

Casemiro - Talked about as he is old and a pensioner. A player who is living for his money purely because of his high wage which is not Casemiro's fault. Talked about as a player we should never buy because of his wage & age. Yet the fans thinks all of this is his fault. Casemiro's performances drop and fans target him and Casemiro talks about how he doesn't want to move proving that he can hear this pressure. His performances improve with many performances being vital in this season and suddenly the fans act like they did nothing wrong. Same happened with Eriksen last year who was targeted for being too old.

Some would believe that its them targeting these players is why these players improve rather than their own hardworking characteristics.

You want more?

Inconsistent players like Dalot gets a lot of hate after alot of good performances for us over the last two seasons when playing at RB. People see his performances at LB and people can't stand him. High IQ there.

Dorgu - People have given up on him already because he isn't crossing in the ball like Beckham.

Vidic & Evra.

Our fans are the worst in the world and for every action there is a reaction. Our fans assume their voice has no negative influence on the club but believe they only have positive influences on the club. That is not support, it's a delusion lower footballing IQ than Garnacho's.

 

[dubplate warrior]

The closes way I can describe our fanbase are the people who voted for Brexit. Our fanbase always vote for the next big change and vote for the brexit but when all the problems happen everyone starts pretending like they never voted for it in the first place

Did our fans want Pogba? 5 years later our fan base act like they never wanted him as our most expensive player ever.

What about Ten Hag? I remember about how many fans wanted to sack our manager to hire Ten Hag & now suddenly he is the worst manager in United’s history, its suddenly everyone else's fault except the fans who were screaming their happiness when he became a choice put on their table.

Remember Van Gaal? All our fans wanted Mourinho after SAF, we got Van Gaal a couple years afterwards but our fans still wanted Mourinho and so we got a Mourinho past his prime and a manager that was tactically completely opposite of Van Gaal because he was "too boring" for the fan base and finished 5th or 6th after winning the FA Cup aswell.

Amorim looked like the new guy and all the fans wanted him because his little team was beating big teams like City & Arsenal but suddenly our fans don't like seeing United play like a small team.

Player wise?
Bruno - our best ever player in our last ten years has been targeted as the core problem for the whole teams downfall which is crazy. He continues to perform and the fans act like their voice is never heard.

Maguire - a huge transfer fee that Maguire could not control & was never a player that didn't try hard but was targeted and turned to meme on media across the world. Do these fans wish this happened to them in their job? Maguire is strong mentally as he is physically and comes back - suddenly what happens? Fans pretend they did nothing wrong & blank our the past like it never happens. Maguire performs well, everyone is dancing, just one bad performance and the fans start shouting about how his resurgence was just a fake and he is still rubbish. Didn't react quickly enough to 2nd Lyon goal and the fans were already turning him back in to a meme on the Internet- last minute equaliser and then what do the fans do? Pretend like they never said anything bad and move on.

Rashford - The complete opposite of Maguire, someone who is obviously mentally weaker than Maguire and felt like he needed a new challenge from the force Fans went to target him. Interestingly Rashford's hate was mostly through media & shows that fans can be heard outside the stadium. United fans would make it obvious that if he tried hard that they wouldn't be against him and wouldn't have the pressure on him. Mental problems or phsyical/injuries pressure was never taken to these supporters head showing how one dimensionally fans can think.

Antony - We all love players that work hard for the badge right? People would say it to Rashford's workrate but suddenly Antony does that and hard work is simply not good enough and so Antony turns to a purely left footed meme that now finds happiness in a free stresless Spain than a moody pressureful old Trafford.

Sancho - Also Felt happy outside United because the pressure fans put & instantly talked about this when moving to Chelsea

Zirkzee - 30 mins in to a game fans boo him off not even playing half a season of games and suddenly he has started to improve and atleast get the fans off their seats and fans again hide under the duvet like they did nothing wrong.

Garnacho - Rashford leaves so United fans need to target a new fault in the group of players. Fans hear a completley media driven news about how we are struggling PSR wise without having no idea about how much money we have. At the same time Napoli who are a better team than us in the world target Garnacho possibly to replace Kvartshekellia. Fans believe this would make us rich enough to sign the next shiny toy. But what happens if the next shiny toy turns to a flop? Every fan will pretend they never asked for it and it's everyone else's faults because their hands are clean.

Mctomminay - Constantly told out to be not good enough for us and used as a mark of our demise but suddenly we are 16th and suddenly people are questioning if he played in thr wrong position after seeing his performances for Scotland and Napoli.

Casemiro - Talked about as he is old and a pensioner. A player who is living for his money purely because of his high wage which is not Casemiro's fault. Talked about as a player we should never buy because of his wage. Yet the fans thinks all of this is his fault. Casemiro's performances drop and fans target him and Casemiro talks about how he doesn't want to move proving that he can hear this. His performances improve with many performances being vital in this season and suddenly the fans act like they did nothing wrong.

Some would believe that its them targeting these players is why these players improve rather than their own hardworking characteristics.

You want more?

Inconsistent players like Dalot gets a lot of hate after alot of good performances for us over the last two seasons when playing at RB. People see his performances at LB and people can't stand him. High IQ there.

Dorgu - People have given up on him already because he isn't crossing in the ball like Beckham.

Vidic & Evra.

Our fans are the worst in the world and for every action there is a reaction. Our fans assume their voice has no negative influence on the club but believe they only have positive influences on the club. That is not support, it's a delusion lower footballing IQ than Garnacho's.

Yeah won't read all of that but as highly paid professionals in one of the biggest clubs in the world you either perform or accept scrutiny.