Most sprinters and footballers develop peak physical sprint speed and acceleration between 20-24, and documented that footballers are normally at their fastest between 22-26. barring injuries, there is every reason and evidence that he will improve a fair bit. Depends on his mindset.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 10
- Yellow cards
- 5
I'd be really interested to see that documentation. I don't doubt that players hit their physical peak in their mid-twenties, but it would be good to have some examples of players that radically improved relative to the other players in the league, which is what Garnacho would need to do.
His poor speed on the ball is also heavily influenced by his poor technique on the ball; head down, poor touches, poor awareness. There's just so much missing to his game, which is why I don't see him making it at the top, especially not in the PL.
Considering he has 3 or 4 assists and 1 goals in the league go back and watch them all
Sancho has a higher expected assists per 90 minutes than Isak this season, so he's obviously carrying some threat.
Anyway once again, this is the Garnacho thread, do you have any response to the comment about his dribbling?
A midfielder has higher expected assists than a striker shock horror.
I just asked you for your reasoning for why he's so unthreatening as you claimed, and you used his low number of goals and assists. Yet when it's pointed out that his expected assists is higher, you're now disparaging it as a measure? It's genuinely impressive how incoherent that is!
Anyway, you're clearly not interested in engaging about Garnacho, the actual subject of this thread, so I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Context in football is a wonderful thing. Does he have a higher xG than Isak? NoI just asked you for your reasoning for why he's so unthreatening as you claimed, and you used his low number of goals and assists. Yet when it's pointed out that his expected assists is higher, you're now disparaging it as a measure? It's genuinely impressive how incoherent that is!
Anyway, you're clearly not interested in engaging about Garnacho, the actual subject of this thread, so I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Speaking of context, this is the Garnacho thread, I've tried 3 times to get you to engage on that topic. If you'd like to continue it, feel free to quote me in a more appropriate thread, but you've taken what was originally relevant to the thread with another poster completely off topic and I don't want to derail this thread anymore.
If you can’t see the falacy in the way you are using that stat then there is no need to talk about Garnacho with whom that stat has clouded your judgement
As much as i think he is a brainless chicken head when it comes to delivering any kind of end product, i think he may be our best bet to play as the number 9 in the Europa League final. At least he has pace to get in behind the Spurs back line.
I would much prefer to see Mount, Bruno, Amad trying to feed him, than Garnacho trying to find Hojland.
I would much prefer to see Mount, Bruno, Amad trying to feed him, than Garnacho trying to find Hojland.
That's an obvious cop out, anything to avoid debating the actual point.
You're welcome to make a case in favour of Garnacho's dribbling if you like.
Ahhh I see. So you're calculation is that apparently we all have to include competitions like the Carling cup and Charity shield when judging Garnacho vs everyone but we can't include dribbles/key passes/through balls/chances created/shot creating actions/successful take ons/progressive passes/passing into penalty area/crosses into penalty area etc
This makes perfect sense. Who doesn't know that a goal in the charity shield is a more meaningful metric than all the above.
It really takes a special kind of mental gymnastics to claim that Garnacho was ahead of Yamal and Doue last season.
I can remember having frustrating conversations with other United fans in the past about young players here who, to my eyes, clearly weren't good enough (Cleverley and Gibson come to mind, Richardson even before that). Overly optimistic fans' counter-arguments would always revert back to the players' age, often citing Darren Fletcher's development as a reason why we should stick with them. My point then was that drastic improvements like the one Fletcher underwent in his mid-20s are the exception rather than the rule. While it certainly is worth pointing out that a large number of top class forwards in world football weren't exactly tearing up trees at Garnacho''s age, it doesn't follow that he's likely to reach that level because he's doing comparatively decent at a similar age. So, to be clear, I'm certainly not making that kind of point.
That said, I do clearly see something in Garnacho. His movement, work rate and agility are very good, and don't think that he's poor technically. His shooting is terrible so, it's hard to argue against his shot technique being poor, but his first touch is generally fine (not so much yesterday, granted), and while he's not an elegant dribbler in the mould of someone like Hazard, he doesn't look clumsy in his ball handling either. He has that ability to suddenly stop with the ball and then go which is difficult for defenders to handle, especially in the penalty area. Even if he doesn't go past his man it creates a bit of time and space (his ability to actually use that time and space to pick out a teammate is erratic of course, but does seem to be getting better). Composure in the final third is usually the final thing the click in a players development, and I don't see why he won't improve in that regard and become a quality winger by the time he hits his prime.
I understand if people just don't see it with him, that's fair enough. The strength of some people's conviction that he isn't gonna make it seems very premature to me though. I hope we keep him and he plays a more rotational/impact sub role next season.
That said, I do clearly see something in Garnacho. His movement, work rate and agility are very good, and don't think that he's poor technically. His shooting is terrible so, it's hard to argue against his shot technique being poor, but his first touch is generally fine (not so much yesterday, granted), and while he's not an elegant dribbler in the mould of someone like Hazard, he doesn't look clumsy in his ball handling either. He has that ability to suddenly stop with the ball and then go which is difficult for defenders to handle, especially in the penalty area. Even if he doesn't go past his man it creates a bit of time and space (his ability to actually use that time and space to pick out a teammate is erratic of course, but does seem to be getting better). Composure in the final third is usually the final thing the click in a players development, and I don't see why he won't improve in that regard and become a quality winger by the time he hits his prime.
I understand if people just don't see it with him, that's fair enough. The strength of some people's conviction that he isn't gonna make it seems very premature to me though. I hope we keep him and he plays a more rotational/impact sub role next season.
Plenty of evidence to support this.
Ferguson on Ronaldo:
"We worked hard with Cristiano on strength and explosiveness, and the results were incredible. His speed and power became world-class"
Ronaldo on his speed:
"I always wanted to be faster, stronger, more explosive. I trained in the gym after training, that made a huge difference." - notice, huge difference.
- Dortmund U23-coach Mike Tullberg (2021):
So even tactically, you will most likely see a massive improvement in Garnacho in the next 3-4 years.
Mujika, I., et al. (2016) - on how players peak muscle power og rate of force development (RFD) develops between 20-25 for male athletes. - a source that explains how male athletes develop greatly after 20 up till 25.
The myth that you are at your physical peak at 20 is just that, a myth. Bale massively improved his speed from 19-23 - Salah became faster at Roma and then Liverpool - Alphonso Davies became quicker. Salah:
“I worked a lot on my body and my sprinting after I moved to Roma. I changed my diet, my gym routine, everything. That’s why I became faster and stronger." - he was 23 at the time.
Sure, there are players who are amazingly rapid at 17 like Giggs and who never got faster after 20 because of injuries, but that is not the normal trajectory. With proper training, you improve speed, strength and agility - adding too much muscle will be detrimental, however, so it's about finding that sweet spot.
I've said it before and I'll say it again..
I'm really struggling to be onboard with the refusal to sell Garnacho. I find it fascinating that a large portion of our fan base is struggling to see that their blind love for players is one of the largest factors in our demise as a club currently. It's like none of you learn from constantly getting your fingers burned with players, especially in the 'post Fergie era'. This constant blind faith/hope is what has led this club into the position we're in now, obviously mixed with horrendous owners and people like Ed Woodward handing out hundreds of thousands per week like it's peanuts.
Look at what your loyalty to players has done to this club over the past decade. The same player that received your (our, I am not in this camp personally, I see players for what they are. I do not wear red tinted glasses for the sake of it) love and admiration only 7-8 years ago, is now playing for a club in the Midlands, on £325k p/w and has been nothing short of atrocious for the past 2.5 years, basically since his purple patch in 22/23. What did your loyalty to this player achieve? Please I need to know. If we'd have sold him off the back of his purple patch at the end of 22/23, we'd have probably received offers north of £60/70m, quite easily, but we didn't. We instead made him one of the highest earners at the club, again, OFF THE BACK OF A PURPLE PATCH and he then returned true to his real form and stunk the place out. Now we're here.
There are other names that can be added to this to; Jesse, Martial, Pogba (kind of), Shaw. These players were given all of the loyalty from the fans and what did they/have they done in return? Shaw has unfortunate injuries but my god he should've been sold a while back. He is NEVER fit. Only now is a majority of the fan base onboard with selling him, but it's almost too late now.
You're allowing yourselves to get your fingers burned again if you do it with Garnacho. Garnacho is NOT the player you think he is, or who he thinks he is. The eye test proves it and so do the numbers. He's made 90+ PL apps so far and his numbers are not great by any means. If we are offered £60m+ for him in the Summer, he has to go. We would be morons to turn it down. There are better players than Garnacho out there, for cheaper too. Charles De Ketelaere is one of them.
From my own perspective, I've never really been on the Garnacho bandwagon as much as some other fans have, and I just mean that from a general point of view. I've not overrated him, I've seen him for what he is, a young winger from the academy that was promoted to the squad due to depth in that position being dreadful (Rashford & Antony).
Garn is not what he himself thinks he is I'm afraid, it's as simple as that. He can wear the CR7 boxers, have the flashy hair and do the suii, it all means jack when anyone with even a slither of football knowledge can see that he has the football IQ of a Pub League player, and that isn't an exaggeration either. As someone that has watched every game so far this year, and for years prior, he really hasn't been overwhelmingly amazing at all. His decision making has improved since Ruben arrived and he was dropped etc, but prior to that he honestly struggled to get the basics right, it was quite spectacular to watch actually.
A few months ago he was approached outside OT by a fan who criticised him for not passing the ball more often and questioned his decisions etc. Of course this is not what a fan should be doing to a player before a match, but he was voicing the opinions of the fans that watch football with their eyes and not with their red tinted glasses.
At one point this season, a specific page on social media reported on him with the following headline..
None of the players above (I'll list below) have more goals + assists this season than Alejandro Garnacho - 11/11/2024
Players listed:
At this stage of the season, Garna had the most shots attempted, dribbles attempted, worst passing distance and worst passes attempted out of that entire list. So he had taken the most shots with a poor conversion rate, had passed the least with the least passes attempted and had an absolutely shocking dribbles attempted to complete ratio, but that wasn't reported by said page, only his G+A. Poor reporting, poor analysis and it quite frankly gets the moronic fans on his side with no context.
Regarding his dribbles completed, at this point in the season he had attempted 30 dribble take ons in all comps and was successful a grand whopping of SIX (6) times. 70% of those occasions he failed miserably. That was the worst ratio by a country mile out of all of those players listed. Again, if you are a proper fan of the club though, you don't need the stats and/or data to tell you this, the eye test was enough, because he was doing it week in week out with little to no success. For all of us United fans, think of the Chelsea game in November, this one sticks with me as we could've put that game to bed if Garn had even a slither of football intelligence.
Overall, Garn is not the player that he thinks he is, and he's not the player that your average fan thinks he is either. He's a somewhat freshly promoted academy prospect that has some promising qualities but also carries some damning negative traits too, which balances him out. There will be fans that might respond to this post and claim that I'm being harsh or unfair. If you truly think this then you're one of the problems with this club. Ruben has dropped him and the board are clearly interested in listening to offers for him, if you think you know better then that's fine, but I'm here to tell you that you don't. If an offer was to come in at the right asking price (£70m currently) then we would be completely insane to not accept it. We could layer the contract with insane sell on clauses / buy back clauses etc to sweeten the deal if he all of a sudden turns into who HE thinks he is, but at this moment in time selling him would be a good decision from the board.
I'm really struggling to be onboard with the refusal to sell Garnacho. I find it fascinating that a large portion of our fan base is struggling to see that their blind love for players is one of the largest factors in our demise as a club currently. It's like none of you learn from constantly getting your fingers burned with players, especially in the 'post Fergie era'. This constant blind faith/hope is what has led this club into the position we're in now, obviously mixed with horrendous owners and people like Ed Woodward handing out hundreds of thousands per week like it's peanuts.
Look at what your loyalty to players has done to this club over the past decade. The same player that received your (our, I am not in this camp personally, I see players for what they are. I do not wear red tinted glasses for the sake of it) love and admiration only 7-8 years ago, is now playing for a club in the Midlands, on £325k p/w and has been nothing short of atrocious for the past 2.5 years, basically since his purple patch in 22/23. What did your loyalty to this player achieve? Please I need to know. If we'd have sold him off the back of his purple patch at the end of 22/23, we'd have probably received offers north of £60/70m, quite easily, but we didn't. We instead made him one of the highest earners at the club, again, OFF THE BACK OF A PURPLE PATCH and he then returned true to his real form and stunk the place out. Now we're here.
There are other names that can be added to this to; Jesse, Martial, Pogba (kind of), Shaw. These players were given all of the loyalty from the fans and what did they/have they done in return? Shaw has unfortunate injuries but my god he should've been sold a while back. He is NEVER fit. Only now is a majority of the fan base onboard with selling him, but it's almost too late now.
You're allowing yourselves to get your fingers burned again if you do it with Garnacho. Garnacho is NOT the player you think he is, or who he thinks he is. The eye test proves it and so do the numbers. He's made 90+ PL apps so far and his numbers are not great by any means. If we are offered £60m+ for him in the Summer, he has to go. We would be morons to turn it down. There are better players than Garnacho out there, for cheaper too. Charles De Ketelaere is one of them.
From my own perspective, I've never really been on the Garnacho bandwagon as much as some other fans have, and I just mean that from a general point of view. I've not overrated him, I've seen him for what he is, a young winger from the academy that was promoted to the squad due to depth in that position being dreadful (Rashford & Antony).
Garn is not what he himself thinks he is I'm afraid, it's as simple as that. He can wear the CR7 boxers, have the flashy hair and do the suii, it all means jack when anyone with even a slither of football knowledge can see that he has the football IQ of a Pub League player, and that isn't an exaggeration either. As someone that has watched every game so far this year, and for years prior, he really hasn't been overwhelmingly amazing at all. His decision making has improved since Ruben arrived and he was dropped etc, but prior to that he honestly struggled to get the basics right, it was quite spectacular to watch actually.
A few months ago he was approached outside OT by a fan who criticised him for not passing the ball more often and questioned his decisions etc. Of course this is not what a fan should be doing to a player before a match, but he was voicing the opinions of the fans that watch football with their eyes and not with their red tinted glasses.
At one point this season, a specific page on social media reported on him with the following headline..
None of the players above (I'll list below) have more goals + assists this season than Alejandro Garnacho - 11/11/2024
Players listed:
- Saka
- Dembele
- Kvara
- Mbappe
- Leao
- Nico Williams
- Olise
- Foden
At this stage of the season, Garna had the most shots attempted, dribbles attempted, worst passing distance and worst passes attempted out of that entire list. So he had taken the most shots with a poor conversion rate, had passed the least with the least passes attempted and had an absolutely shocking dribbles attempted to complete ratio, but that wasn't reported by said page, only his G+A. Poor reporting, poor analysis and it quite frankly gets the moronic fans on his side with no context.
Regarding his dribbles completed, at this point in the season he had attempted 30 dribble take ons in all comps and was successful a grand whopping of SIX (6) times. 70% of those occasions he failed miserably. That was the worst ratio by a country mile out of all of those players listed. Again, if you are a proper fan of the club though, you don't need the stats and/or data to tell you this, the eye test was enough, because he was doing it week in week out with little to no success. For all of us United fans, think of the Chelsea game in November, this one sticks with me as we could've put that game to bed if Garn had even a slither of football intelligence.
Overall, Garn is not the player that he thinks he is, and he's not the player that your average fan thinks he is either. He's a somewhat freshly promoted academy prospect that has some promising qualities but also carries some damning negative traits too, which balances him out. There will be fans that might respond to this post and claim that I'm being harsh or unfair. If you truly think this then you're one of the problems with this club. Ruben has dropped him and the board are clearly interested in listening to offers for him, if you think you know better then that's fine, but I'm here to tell you that you don't. If an offer was to come in at the right asking price (£70m currently) then we would be completely insane to not accept it. We could layer the contract with insane sell on clauses / buy back clauses etc to sweeten the deal if he all of a sudden turns into who HE thinks he is, but at this moment in time selling him would be a good decision from the board.
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I'm absolutely on the same page as you regarding Garnacho, and I've been saying it for a LONG time. Unfortunately our fans have a serious problem with their red tinted glasses, and claim that any negative comments about our players, even when backed up with stats AND the eye test, is just a case of being negative for the sake of it. This, as you and I both know, is not true.
Garnacho is just not very good. The fact we had an opportunity to earn £60m from his sale was daylight robbery. I've no doubt that he will 'flourish' over in the Serie A or La Liga, but that's because those leagues are not as physical as the Prem. Hence why Antony looks like a winger we'd look to sign if he was doing this for Betis with no previous time at United (due to us just signing anyone and everyone).
I seriously cannot understand why people can't get their heads around this fact, it's truly mind boggling. Our entire team is shocking, bar Bruno, when it comes to actual world class ability. Ten Hag has quite literally built one of the worst teams I've seen in 30years of being a fan. We are the least physical side in the PL by a large margin, which funnily enough is one of the reasons why we've progressed so far in the UEL. We have yet to meet a PL team in this years competition and we are unbeaten. Unfortunately, we're about to meet the first one in the final, and to not be overly pessimistic, it will likely be a thrashing in favour of Spurs. However much I hope it's not, it likely will.
Now we are finally at rock bottom of the table, I can safely say this (again) I WOULD HAVE EVERY SINGLE SQUAD OF PLAYERS AHEAD OF US IN THE LEAGUE, IN TERMS OF PERSONNEL, BARRING WEST HAM.
If fans struggle to agree with that statement then I'm afraid that your blind faith to this club will be the ultimate detriment to it.
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The problem is he misses so many big chances. Don't have the stats but it's possible he's missed like 10+ big chances. Terrible finishing from Garnacho this season.
These chances are created alot by himself.
No one says he doesnt miss big chances - it's that these chances are usually created by his own ability to get in to the right position.
Remember yesterday when he missed a chance from a cross or corner at the back post yesterday?
There's no reason for a LW/LAM to be the one trying to score a tap in at the far post; that's the role of the striker but Garnacho misses a simple goal because as a LW he ends up having a lot of chances because he constantly finds himself in positions that fool the opposition.
Then yesterday I saw Garnacho trying to score a header at the back post that he couldn't even jump and compete for
it was really funny how he finds himself in such dangerous positions but then that danger doesn't really lead to much at the moment.This is why people say he isn't our best player because Amad and Bruno are, but he is usually one of our most dangerous players that starts making the opposition absorb pressure because they have to monitor and control Garnacho like a rat in a test laboratory.
Anyway, alof of people have made their mind up about him- the ones who want him gone won't feel at rest unless he is out of the club. He didn't even play in the first half and he is getting alot of hate compared to the players that played the whole game & didn't perform.
If I had to choose Garnacho or Amorim though, I'd choose Garnacho because so far I see more potential in the player than the manager that has lost 17 games.
Those are good quotes, and I've already agreed that there will be some improvement, but is there any way you can quantify it?
If we're making the assumption we could see a "massive improvement" because Garnacho is 20, then logically it tracks that we'll see the same in every 20 year old footballer. Keep in mind that Garnacho doesn't just need to improve, he needs to improve relative to the opposition in the premier league, many of whom are also young, developing, yet already physically ahead of him.
A goal in a competitive match counts, why wouldn't it? Strange argument. The discussion was about productive players in his age group. So yes, you look at productivity, not metrics. He's got plenty of metrics he excels in and others he doesn't do as well in which is fine.
Agree, but at least he gets in a possition to have a big change. Rasmus doesnt even miss many as he is never in the right place.
The metrics he excels in aren't that many, and they all say the same thing. He usually gets the ball in dangerous positions and doesn't do much with it.
Apart from be really productive relative to players in his age group or younger.
Nobody is disputing that he's had bad finishing this season. Its likely to improve, just as in the previous 2 seasons it wasn't like this.
Well that's not true, isn't he like the 3rd player with the highest output at his age or something like that?
So why doesn't he do much with it?
If he did and put away every chance he got then he would be a generational talent which everyone knows he is not but he is a good young player who has a good output for his age.
You'll have to justify why it counts but all of the stats I mentioned don't. Because if you're suggesting that 1 goal in what is effectively a friendly game is more of a measurement of a players "productivity" than a full year worth of dribbling/key passes etc then you've got your work cut out.
When you say productivity do you mean goals and assists? Otherwise what do you mean by you look at productivity and not metrics?
Because players like Inzaghi can do absolutely crap all in a game and still come up with the goods & be absolutely legends of the game if their output is good.
Garnacho is young and far away from that level but he output is good enough, top 3 best players at his age in the world to not really give a feck about his dribbling ability if he ultimately is useful.
You & @The Hilton would sell Inzhaghi because he doesn't have dribbling stats of Ronaldinho & the passing stats of Ozil even though what Inzaghi simply had was the ability to be at the right place at the right time and ultimately score a goal. The best ability of the game.
Garnacho has enough output at his age at the age of 20 to not care so much if he is dribbling with his face down looking at the ball, because I couldn't care less if he was dribbling with his head turned backwards aslong as he was scoring goals and assists for us.
I've said it before he has stats at 20 that have matched or beaten players in their prime in the PL playing for one of the worst top team squads of all time & yet he is the 3rd best player in his age group and people want to bin him off.
I'm sorry but you are just waffling for the sake of it now.
Why are you taking it upon yourself to assert Garnacho as one of the top 3 20yr olds in the world? Are you purposely being this obtuse?
Honestly, I believe that Arsenal fans are some of the worst in the world, but my god, if you and Bosnian were the pool of reference for United fans then we would be at the top of the list by a country mile. We have a top 3 player in the world, but are currently one above the relegation zone in our domestic league.. honestly, the drivel I'm having to endure on this thread is painful. That top 3 talent that you proclaim, is also among the top 5 players at the club that have the most minutes across all comps. So he is a part of the team that is one place above relegation. That top 3 talent, is in a team, that is one above relegation, as the forward player for said team.
I suppose next you'll say that Amad is in the top 3 for his age group, while we also currently house one of the best 10's in world football (this is closer to fact), and have a top 3 centre back for his age group (Yoro) yet again, we are... one... place... above.. relegation.
Please, stop it.
Productivity is always used to mean goals and assists, yes.
Underlying metrics is different and describe what type of player he is. He's got plenty of quality metrics. You look at metrics to see what sort of player he is, what his strengths and weaknesses are and find what role suits him best and how to use him effectively, and project those long term to see what kind of player he can turn into.
Garnachos metrics that he excels at fit into him being a really productive player.
- Progressive carries
- Carries into final third
- Carries into the box
- Touches in the box
- Progressive passes received
- Shots
- Non pen xG
Anyway. His metrics show he has great movement and is always in a great position to receive passes and be in a chance, is really effective with how he carries the ball, but he isn't a great 1 vs 1 dribbler. Watching him shows he is excellent at creating a yard of space to shoot or pass which is supported in his metrics, so it's about honing those abilities, which he has shown lots of ability in too, just inconsistency (and again, he's 20, that's to be expected).
So the talent he can be is a highly productive player, who can score plenty of goals and get a solid amount of assists because he gets in great positions all the time, but that would be greatly helped by having others in our squad who also have good movement or playing alongside a natural scorer, which we don't have. That's obviously a very useful profile of player to have. And it all circles back to support and explain that he's just a very productive player and will progress to be a more productive player as he develops.
First of all because he won't play against players his own age all the time. He will play against players in their prime as well. If he only faced one fullback his age who trained as rigurously as him, then that may be negated IF both stay injury free. Thus, if he plays a 25 year old who is at his physical peak, then he will close that gap or even exceed in terms of explosiveness. Considering there are arguments that he may gain improvement in acceleration with as much as a 0,1 sec improvement on the first 10 yards and as much as 1 km/h for top speed, improving him well past 36 km/h, putting him close to the very top in terms of speed.
Furthermore, there is little reason to suggest that every player trains as well as the other. If that were so, Ronaldo wouldn't have become the player he did, compared to others. He was always fast, but he wasn't the speed demon he became in his mid twenties. How much you improve from 20-25 depends on how quick you were to begin with, and how well you train. We know a little bit about the former with Garnacho - he's naturally fast, but not the fastest. Can he improve to get there, certainly, but it will require a helluva lot of hard and dedicated work.
A metric is a quantifiable measurement used to evaluate a players performance. Goals and assists are both metrics that we use for these reasons the exact same reason as key passes/chances created/through balls/successful dribbles etc.
Why is an assist "productivity" and not a metric but key passes is a metric and not productivity?
Where is this an accepted definition?
"Output" doesn't reflect metrics though. His overall output is mostly a byproduct of him largely having more opportunities than almost any other young player in a big team. He's been essentially a locked in starting XI player who's given freedom to shoot as much as he'd like (he takes more shots than 97% of all other attackers in football). Naturally any decent player will rack up some decent counting stats with that level of volume.
Great metrics would be if he was middle of the pack in terms of shots/ etc. but had great per 90 stats showing he was effective and efficient with his actions even if the total stats weren't as high.
Your final sentence is the really pertinent one for me. Garnacho has multiple areas of the game that he'd need to improve dramatically, all of which would individually require a whole lot of hard and dedicated work, there just isn't enough training time for it all.
Still, it was an interesting chat, it's definitely a shame there don't seem to be any quantified data for how much faster footballers have gotten and how, but as you say it depends a lot on the footballer's natural ceiling.
Do you think Napoli or whoever will bid anything close to that for Garnacho? i don't. The only team linked with him who might be mad enough to pay a fee in that region are Chelsea (and I still highly doubt it), and I don't wanna sell him to an EPL club unless it's for a ridiculous mark up
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Chelsea 1:0 Man Utd
New
Quietly cost us the game.
Not with him getting beaten by the turn, that could happen to anyone, but the initial space he gave to James to get the secure touch and momentum
Lapses in concentration are costly..
Not with him getting beaten by the turn, that could happen to anyone, but the initial space he gave to James to get the secure touch and momentum
Lapses in concentration are costly..
I am more concerned that his attacking contribution was nothing in the match. In the end as well. He could have crossed the ball at the end but lost it recklessly. He needs a lot of space and time to do anything.
if we got 60 million for him id be fine with it. Scout 2-30 million cost attackers and trust the scouting department. Dont see any way in which we get that offer though.
Wasted our last chance of an attack with a hopeless dive, and that just about sums him up - crumbles under any pressure.
Lacks athleticism and any physical attributes. Can't stand players like that.
Shit for their goal. Ball watching, too slow to get out, dives in and leaves James with an easy clip into the box.
Watching him try to sprint past James for that final attack was laughable. James had played the entire game by the way. Too many players of his quality in the squad, explains why we are where we are.