Nonsense. Yoro is a brilliant CB talent, Mainoo is absolutely a gem in midfield, then Bruno is definitely top class/probably world class for me.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 9
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 1
I've also been one of his critics, but fair play he did really well today. Decision making was on point, passed when he should have, dribbled when he had to, defended when he was needed, and gave us an outlet when we desperately needed one. Needs to build on that, as really need him to produce against Sociedad.
I think playing on the right forces him to pass more because the cut in and shoot option has less appeal for him. The end result is a better player.
All young players have fundamental flaws in their game. Should we just bin them all off because they're not the finished article yet.
Like people have said he's better in space but if he wants to be the guy for us going forward he has to learn to do it against low blocks. This was the Rashford problem and he never figured it out.
Learning to trust the overlap, becoming more of a give and go merchant around the box and looking up when crossing would be a good start.
Learning to trust the overlap, becoming more of a give and go merchant around the box and looking up when crossing would be a good start.
Of course not, but that doesn’t take mean we should keep them all on the off chance they all become world beaters. Garnacho is a player that divides opinion, and whilst there are some sound reasons for keeping him, there are also some sound arguments for selling him. He does have some pretty fundamental flaws and limitations that could affect his ceiling, so it’s not an unreasonable debate to have.
Only saw the highlights but he definitely looked dangerous today.
That isn't at all true. They will have flaws, but the ones that stand a chance of making at the top level will have flaws that can be addressed.
Garnacho's flaws are the kind that are permanent.
For starters, he isn't fast enough, either in pace or acceleration, which is one of the main reasons he struggles to beat players (he has one of the lowest take on success rates in the league). That's not something that can change.
He also plays with his head down, which is a big contributor to his being so selfish and wasteful, as he doesn't know what the rest of the pitch looks like when he's on the ball. He'd need to rebuild his game from the ground up in order to rectify this.
If we want to get back to the top level, he's miles away from ever being at the level we need. His ceiling for us is as an impact substitute who we can roll the dice with.
Much better. I hope he knows this is expected of him every game.
Was very good today...
Refusing to pass to Colyer was really annoying.
Pretty good game other than that.
Pretty good game other than that.
What?
The guy always gets behind the defence and plays primarily on the counter mostly because of his speed and acceleration
Wins the free kick that leads to the goal, has three crosses (two accurate), won one tackle, made one clearance and won seven duels. Takes two shots and cafe jumps at chance to call him selfish.
This is a 20 year old playing against Arsenal. He did well. Just say so and stfu for once.
This is a 20 year old playing against Arsenal. He did well. Just say so and stfu for once.
Works better when we have low possession and tries to play on the counter more.
Still a winger and not a 10 so in the end I just don't see how he works for Amorim in the future.
Still a winger and not a 10 so in the end I just don't see how he works for Amorim in the future.
I selected Antony because if you believe these numbers indicate an extremely high performer then surely a player whose numbers are far better than Garnacho in almost every category would be a better fit? Do you think Antony has been an extremely high performer at United?
That was his best game in a long while, playing on the right forces him to think more outside of the box as his usual pattern of cutting in and shooting is devoid given his preferred foot.
Irrespective, he still needs to adapt his game for the left because Amad should be the 10 with a wingback for the right coming in summer depending on how the budget looks in a few months time.
He has been an outlet in the games recently, his speed offers versatility for the midfield in possession even De Ligt has played the diagonal ball across the field from time to time.
Irrespective, he still needs to adapt his game for the left because Amad should be the 10 with a wingback for the right coming in summer depending on how the budget looks in a few months time.
He has been an outlet in the games recently, his speed offers versatility for the midfield in possession even De Ligt has played the diagonal ball across the field from time to time.
Bingo, also playing in more of a counter setup is what he's grown up in. He also has a good left foot its worth saying, so he can come inside with genuine danger for the FB.
His pace and acceleration are really poor, he's regularly outpaced by opposition defenders, and he struggles to get past players from a standing start (even with a running start he isn't great, but the headstart does help sometimes).
It's definitely not 'poor' for goodness sakes - he's just not out and out rapid like some other PL attackers. He's scored plenty of goals beating covering defenders for pace from direct balls though. This forum can't help but deal in extremes.
He's better on the right because he can't just cut in every time so the defender has to worry about him going both ways. The right side suits him so much better.
It's definitely poor for a winger/wide forward, a position for which pace is a key attribute. There's a reason his dribbling success rate is one of the worst in the league, and it's a key contributor to why his end product is so bad, as he doesn't have the pace to give himself time to look up.
As for these "plenty of goals", I've watched the "all the goals" video on the United website just now to see I'm being unfair, and there's a couple at best that could be described as you have done, and they were very early in his United career. Calling that "plenty" sure looks like dealing in extremes.
His top end speed is nothing special but his agility and acceleration is excellent, no concerns about that at all. He's just not that good on the left and incredibly inconsistent/predictable from that side and tries to cut in too often. On the right he's way more unpredictable, better, lifts his head up and is a smarter footballer that also has a better time with his dribbling.
I thought he was pretty good yesterday. The last 3 or so matches I have felt like his touch was a lot more assured in tight spaces when being pressed.
This?
If so, bizarre. Literally most of these goals demonstrate pace and acceleration and leaving at least one defender behind in a foot race.
1st goal - contradicts you
2nd goal - contradicts you
3rd goal - contradicts you
5th goal - contradicts you
9th goal - contradicts you
Actually a weird thing to say about a right footed winger/attacker these days. But yet it's true in Garnachos case. He should continue to play there going forward.
We'll have to agree to disagree, as I have no idea where you're seeing him lifting his head up or playing smarter on the right. He's forced to go on the outside to stay on his favoured foot, which makes him less predictable, and he worked hard on yesterday which was commendable, but other than that it's the same head down play with terrible decision making. His i
And lets be clear, his dribbling is objectively awful, he has one of the lowest success rates in the league.
Lets go through each of these shall we?
1 & 2 are him at full sprint beating a defender who's slower to get going, but I'll give you those.
3 is the one clear example of him winning a foot race, he easily outpaces a much slower CB.
The 5th goal he gets the drop on the defender but that defender still ends up ahead of him, so it doesn't contradict me, it's a great example of him being beaten in a foot race. Fortunately the keeper left his near post wide open.
The 9th goal is a cross where he's in the box? He doesn't outpace anyone, the defender stays level with him despite running further in order to close the angle, and the ball across the box was perfect.
So you've got 3 real examples, which were his first 3 United goals. Which supports a point I've been making for ages; Garnacho was electric when he broke into the first team, but he's been figured out now. It's also possible he's lost a yard of pace due to bulking up (or just growing up).
Honestly I don't think it's that weird. I feel like there's an obsession for inverted wingers that has led to a drop in quality in wide players because managers are forcing them in. It's much easier to play on your natural side, while you have to be far more talented in general to make it work as an inverted winger. If the opponent knows you will always cut in on your stronger foot, then you have to really perfect that skill, and most of the time an inverted winger will look to be a goalscoring wide player so it's always going to be "cut in and shoot". How many wide forwards like that are truly good enough to be worth it? Guys like Salah of course, but someone like Rashford for example struggled with consistency always as that was his big thing. If he developed on the right, maybe he would have more to his game, he can still be a scorer but would have more creativity and would be better rounded. A club like United needs a truly world class scorer, so if the player isn't at that level for that quality, no use trying to force it in. Let them be creators and more well rounded attackers.
He creates multiple chances every time he plays on the right, good cut backs and picks out passes (like many times yesterday or for his assist for Zirkzee vs Sociedad) while on the left he gets Rashford syndrome and runs into dead ends as he looks to cut inside and shoot but gets crowded out. He's still capable of cutting in from the left but picks his moments better (like vs City in the Community Shield).
And let's be clear, he gave Arsenal's left fullbacks a torrid time yesterday, so much so that they changed the player who tried to deal with him 3 times throughout the game since they couldn't get a grip on him. Calafiori had a nightmare, Lewis Skelly did no better and then they brought on Tierney to help too.
You want some stats? 7/10 ground duels won, 89% pass accuracy. But yeah let's call him wasteful and equally shit on the right
Your point is he has poor pace/acceleration. All of the goals I highlighted contradict this.
5 -
clearly times run, beats defender to ball. If you don't understand how a covering defender will then catch up when an attacker checks back with the ball, no amount of explanation I give will be of help.
9 -
good example of his pace as the counter comes.
So of what 10 goals (?), half of them show at least good speed, contrary to your assertion that his
Garnacho is quite nippy but not rapid. "Really poor pace" is obviously an overstatement.
If he finishes the season strong, it's an even better reason to sell IMO. I just dont see where he fits long term here. He's a wide player that cant beat defenders off the dribble, has medium pace, has poor finishing, and struggles with decision making. His strengths are that he's ultra direct, not afraid to shoot, and gets into good positions. For him to really reach the expected heights, his finishing, chance creation, and decision making would all have to improve drastically. Not saying it wont, but if we can get 60 mil of pure profit for him, I'd do it.
His assist for Zirkzee was another head down blind pass, I made a point of watching replays to see at what point he looked up, he didn't. It worked out well, and his instincts for where to play the ball are better on the right, but the fundamental flaws in his game are still there.
As for yesterday, lets expand on your cherry picked stats.
His passing accuracy in the final 3rd was 78%, his crossing success rate was 66%, his expected assists was 0.09. So he created nothing. His xG was 0.07, for 2 shots, which again points to his wastefulness with low percentage shots. His dribbling success rate was 50% (2 attempts, 1 success) which, while being way better than his average, doesn't exactly point to a "torrid" time for Arsenal's fullbacks.
This feels like such a weird stretch of trying to disregard anything he does well. I just went and looked back at the goal, this is basically impossible to tell.
So your examples of his good pace are one where he's clearly outpaced by the defender, and another where he isn't any faster but gets to a perfectly placed cross?
I think it's clear we have different definitions as to what constitutes "good" pace for a forward player. Mine is being quick enough to consistently beat his man (something he's objectively terrible at). Yours seems to be timing his runs well (which he does do regularly I agree) even if he's then caught up with.
Anyway we've gotten really into the weeds here and it isn't helping the thread, so let me try to go back to the point. It's factual that he has an extremely poor success rate for dribbles and take-ons. I'm sure you can accept this. A major reason for that is that he lacks the pace to get past opposition players. For a player with dribbling and taking on players as such a core facet of his game, I'd say not having the pace to do that at all well makes his pace poor.
It's an observation, there's no stretch at all, nor is it weird to point out such an obvious and consistent failing in a United player. It comes across as defensive that you've jumped to "weird" and "stretch" rather than engaging in the point I'm making about his flaws and why he's been so ineffective for us.
As for the goal, I've just gone back for another look, and its quite clear that he's staring at the ball until after he plays it across the edge of the box.
He regularly hits top speeds in excess of 35 km/h, most often our fastest player. His recorded highest top speed is 35,48; Vini Jr is recorded at 35,5. you wouldn’t call him extremely slow.
I agree he is not lightening fast. He’s no young Giggs, Ronaldo, Kanchelskis or Valencia, nor a Nani. However, his pace isn’t really that much of an issue. He’s about average paced for a PL winger, as stats would suggest. Suggesting he was faster when he broke through either suggests you think he’s a terrible trainer or that you think you lose pace from 18-20, which is absurd.
Alright you're being ridiculous with that. Done with this conversation if you have your head in the sand. Head down blind pass for just picking out Zirkzee and knowing where he is
I don't know about anybody else, and maybe I'm wrong, but I see a player willing to learn to play where the manager wants him to and willing to work hard. I still think selling him at this point would be a bad mistake.
I'm harsher than Garnacho than most and was very open to selling him in January. I have absolutely no investment in being overly defensive about him. Your zoning in on something that you can't really know is weird and a stretch.
There are 3 images of his move in the goal. Looks to me like he can quite easily see what's happening in his periphery. Which I imagine helped him play the perfect pass to Zirkzee, literally ideal into his run.