They play a lot of friendly matches basically for money. They use a huge number of players. Look at who plays in the competitive games.
Alex Telles - SIGNED for United
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Even so, given the pool of selection, I'm surprised how relatively low on quality players find themselves in that team.
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10M seems a tad absurd.
This will go down to the final day of the window. For once im in agreement with the club. Hammer that price down sub £10mil. In 90 days Porto will get nothing for him.
We're already seen as easy. A club sets their asking price for a player, we come in on a low ball offer, we haggle for 2 months then on the last day we accept to pay the original asking price every single time, instead of just paying the original price at the start so the player has more time to integrate.
If another club waits to get him on a free then that money saved will increase his wages. Its not an impossible situation other clubs could pay him more than us.
Brazil give caps out like confetti. It helps the clubs sell their players as they can call them a 'National' player. Its a con. It the competitive games that are the important factor.
Like when?
Incorrect. We paid less for Bruno and AWB.
Daniel James.
A £7.5m target for Leeds cames to us for £18m
Harry Maquire.
If reports are true Leicester wanted £85m and we paid £80m but considering we could of got him for £75m the season before we're still out of pocket.
Bruno.
£47m with £20 in add ons. Even the Sporting VP said we paid £16m over the odds.
AWB.
Was up for sale anywhere between £50m-£55m. We started negotiating at £35m (if reports are true) and still ended up paying the £50m. Although we did get the Zaha sell on clause included so a massive big well done for Ed.
These are just our last 4 transfers and one thing they have in common is we've paid way over the odds for the lot of them.
Edit:
Forgot to mention VDB who was a good price but if it wasn't for Van Der Sar we probably would of been fleeced for him as well.
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Your own analysis disagrees with your statement. With Maguire and AWB you have shown that we paid less than the selling club wanted. No point comparing to a previous summer, you might as well state we could have bought Maguire from Hull for £20m. It’s irrelevant.
With James it’s debatable/ unknown what Leeds were going to pay. It’s also widely reported to be a fee of £15m.
Bruno - sounds like sour grapes from the CEO. I’m pretty happy with his transfer fee, and you not?
What about DVDB - or did you miss that out because it doesn’t fit your narrative?
That sort of thing only works if you're negotiating from a position of strength. United need a left back really badly, whereas they don't need ~15-20m€ that badly. It's better to spend the money now, and get a player they need (and a first team ready left back in his prime is precisely what they need) rather than write off a large portion of the season, and probably lose him somewhere else when another club inevitably pip United to his signing 3 months later.
Makes sense.
We don’t need a left back “really badly”. We are in a position of strength. That’s very clear, and we hold the cards.
It’s not a priority position, there are other options and there would appear to be zero interest from any other club.
You do realise who our owners are??
I think we need a left back but the club will look at it differently - two current options in squad, the one you’ve identified could sign a pre contract in 3 months.....all in, there is no chance they will approve spending 20m in those circumstances.
Actually got the edit in before your reply so it does fit my narrative
and with Bruno I am happy with his transfer fee because it isn't my money.Relative or not if we've saved a few million on transfer fees, the United tax does exist. Once we come sniffing around a player the selling team sometimes (most times?) asks for ludicrous transfer fees so even if we did get them slightly cheaper we're still paying over the odds.
I don’t disagree that we have often paid more. But certainly when it comes to buying PL players, clubs have money and can easily turn down fees. Look at Zaha and Grealish, clubs would have been prepared to pay massive fees for them, but the clubs can turn it down.Actually got the edit in before your reply so it does fit my narrative
Relative or not if we've saved a few million on transfer fees, the United tax does exist. Once we come sniffing around a player the selling team sometimes (most times?) asks for ludicrous transfer fees so even if we did get them slightly cheaper we're still paying over the odds.
My edit - I quoted you before you made your DVDB edit!
I do indeed, and I fully believe that if (when) United feck up the deal over a couple of million pounds, they have once again made a right pig's ear of a transfer that should have been easy and quick to handle.
Maybe Ajax let us have v.d Beek cheap out of sympathy. It's like the 8 year old girl knocking on your door wanting to sell you cookies - and she is so bad at it, it's efficient because everyone thinks...she will never sell any cookies, and so everyone buys one
Woodward might be a genious (or not)
United don’t get any credit for that. It was all van der SaarMaybe Ajax let us have v.d Beek cheap out of sympathy. It's like the 8 year old girl knocking on your door wanting to sell you cookies - and she is so bad at it, it's efficient because everyone thinks...she will never sell any cookies, and so everyone buys one
Woodward might be a genious (or not)
Apparently Van De Sar felt sorry for us.. some of the things people come up with is crazy.
Just because he is ex United player doesnt mean his interests are not Ajax. Yes, it makes negotiations easy but he isnt going to accept £10/20m lower because he played for us.
Speaking of our good ties with Ajax, why not Tagliafico?
So, it's not "every single time" then, is it?Actually got the edit in before your reply so it does fit my narrative
Relative or not if we've saved a few million on transfer fees, the United tax does exist. Once we come sniffing around a player the selling team sometimes (most times?) asks for ludicrous transfer fees so even if we did get them slightly cheaper we're still paying over the odds.
I don't get why lots of you would rather wait and get Telles for Free. And think that paying 15 mln now is not smart.
It does not work like that, if we do get him for free he is gonna asked for much better contract, being 28 he would probably get sth like 4+1. Knowing we have saved 15 mln he would ask for 2/3 of that so around 10 mln, 2.5 mln per year more than his normal contract would be right now, so that is around 50 k per week. I bet normally he would be on 70-80 k now and 120-130 if he gets here next year.
In terms of Money we need to invest is not much difference if we gonna pay him and Porto or just him.
But in terms of other factors difference is huge
We would get player we need right now to help us play better and have more quality in terms of squad options. If we get him now or next year he would probably get that 4-5 years contract with the option to extend it for 1 more year. So he would probably be here while being 29,30,31,32. If we buy now we can add 28 to that list if we buy next year 33. This is the difference you get. And The last part... his contract, if one day we would like to sell him, it will be much easier to done it while he will be on 70-80 k rather than 50 k more.
So yeah, buy now.
It does not work like that, if we do get him for free he is gonna asked for much better contract, being 28 he would probably get sth like 4+1. Knowing we have saved 15 mln he would ask for 2/3 of that so around 10 mln, 2.5 mln per year more than his normal contract would be right now, so that is around 50 k per week. I bet normally he would be on 70-80 k now and 120-130 if he gets here next year.
In terms of Money we need to invest is not much difference if we gonna pay him and Porto or just him.
But in terms of other factors difference is huge
We would get player we need right now to help us play better and have more quality in terms of squad options. If we get him now or next year he would probably get that 4-5 years contract with the option to extend it for 1 more year. So he would probably be here while being 29,30,31,32. If we buy now we can add 28 to that list if we buy next year 33. This is the difference you get. And The last part... his contract, if one day we would like to sell him, it will be much easier to done it while he will be on 70-80 k rather than 50 k more.
So yeah, buy now.
Forget his contract situation bottom line is he’s worth £18m and more, get the deal done. You aren’t signing a LB with his ability for 18m elsewhere.
I think you have it wrong. There’s the very real option of getting him on a free, and that’s a reason to negotiate a good price.
We want to secure a deal now, but won’t be forced into doing so.
The best case scenario is get him now, for a decent fee.
Ok so I should of said nearly every single time. My mistake. Doesn't take away from the fact we NEARLY always get fleeced in the transfer market. VDB looks like value for money but before that it was probably RVP. That's a lot of transfers in between.
No he didn't say that and I'm surprised so many people are still falling for the clickbait headlines that the media put out.
The Sporting VP said that by refusing to sell in the summer, they ended up getting what they originally wanted when we came back in January. In other words, our offer at the beginning of the year was £16m less than what Sporting wanted and they refused to sell at that point. In January we then came back and gave them the extra £16m to get the deal done.
Bruno is an example of what you're talking about because we did haggle for ages before eventually giving them what they wanted, but it didn't cost us any extra by waiting. Unlike Maguire where it apparently did.
I wouldn't say we necessarily lack ambition by not signing Telles now, we have spent money, but those in power are so incredibly dim and short sighted that they can't see the consequences on the football side of failing to see this move through now. Telles likely won't have the type of impact Bruno has had but we're clearly in need some decent wingers/wing backs. he would help address a major need so get it fecking done.
If you were him you will ask for a lot more money as well to compensate another year of "low wages" in Porto and also I can be signed for free. 10m sign on fee is reasonable as well.
It costs you points in the table.
I thought about specifying it didn't cost us any extra financially to avoid that kind of comment, but ultimately decided not to since you're right. It almost cost us top 4 and CL qualification as well so it came very close to costing us financially that way, but we managed to get our shit together enough (most notably because of Bruno himself) to get that.
The same reason probably why Liverpool sign Thiago this summer rather than wait till January and sign him for free. I highly doubt there is any saving at all.
According to the Sporting VP they upped the price from 4 months before by 16m so it sounds to me like we could of got him for 16m cheaper than we actually paid.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksp...bruno-fernandes-sporting-lisbon-transfer/amp/
Sporting President has recently said that if they sold Bruno today he'd be worth 20m due to Covid, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to his claims as the guy is clearly bittered with the transfer deal.
duncan talking out of his arse again.
Probably the most unreliable source now that mourinho is gone.
10 is probably the initial offer and then incentives. Wouldn't say a bad deal for Porto.
He can sign a contract in 3 months. He is not going for more than 15-20 with add ons
He can sign a contract in 3 months. He is not going for more than 15-20 with add ons
Read his quotes instead of the fluff around it.
“I realised in the negotiations that was convinced that we were going to give in and that for €50m he was doing the deal. Well they ended up paying 65 million.
“They were wrong and ended up paying what we wanted. We went to get 20 million more than if we had sold four months ago.”
He's blatantly saying that we were offering about €50m and they refused it, then we came back in January and gave them the €65m that they were originally asking. The €20m figure is the rough difference (65m minus 50m is only 15m so obviously the figures aren't exact) between what he would have been accepting if he accepted our original offer and what he got by sticking to his guns and refusing to accept anything under their asking price. The media then spun that to say that we could have got him for €45-50m in the summer, which is actually the exact opposite of what he's saying.
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Apparently, in order for Porto to buy more players, they first have to sell Telles to get the funds. Talks are at an impasse for now.
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