All-Time National XIs

Physiocrat

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This was done a number of years ago in the main football forum but was wondering what the draft community's thoughts were.

Here's a couple to start the ball rolling -



This was tough. Zona Mista or 352 seems the best way to go here. Decided on the Zona Mista mainly because Italy don't have many great RWB. The front three picks itself as does Tardelli. The back line is an embarrassment of riches but I rated Baresi above Scriea and both can't play. Bergomi would be an obvious pick but Maldini is the better all-rounder. Albertini might seem like an odd choice but Italy don't really have any great DMs, especially ones that can pass (didn't think Pirlo would mesh well with Rivera and Baresi). The only other DM I considered was Romeo Benetti who Michaelf7 rates highly but went with Albertini because of his passing.

Here's one for Brazil -

-----------Pele----Ronaldo-------
Rivelino---------------------Garrincha
-----------Cerezo--Falcao-----------
R.Carlos--L.Pereria--Lucio--C.Alberto
----------------Taffarel---------------

Pele must play so I can't fit in Zico as they played to much in the same zone. Garrincha with an excellent defender at RB is a must and gives great balance to the side. Without Garrincha you pretty much have a 4222 as an option which I have never thought was that balanced or else a 352 but why do you want three Brazilian CBs?)

Didi or Gerson aren't really solid enough for me in a two so Falcao reprises his role alongside Cerezo (he has more passing ability but similar defensive acumen as Zito so he gets the nod). Rivelino as a wide-playmaker fits in lovely allowing Carlos to bomb on. I did consider Ronaldinho but wanted a harder worker on the left-wing considering Garrincha is on the right

What's everyone think? Please post your own XIs for Italy, Brazil and any other national side.
 
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Physiocrat

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Here's mine. Probably not ideal, and also no Rivera, but I wanted to have Meazza and Pirlo in.

Is the general consensus here that Conti was better than Donadoni?
In general I think Conti > Donadoni but he makes sense in this setup.

Leaving Rivera out means Pirlo can play although I'm not sure Baresi would like such a dominant playmaker just ahead of him.

I'm dubious of pre-decent footage players so left Meazza out but of course his reputation is excellent in general.
 

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These threads are usually fun until some old fecker born in 1885 replies to your post saying Iniesta shouldn't be in the Spain team and Santiago Bernabéu Yeste deserves to be in the Spain XI for his pre-civil war triumphs.
 

Physiocrat

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These threads are usually fun until some old fecker born in 1885 replies to your post saying Iniesta shouldn't be in the Spain team and Santiago Bernabéu Yeste deserves to be in the Spain XI for his pre-civil war triumphs.
:lol:

I tend to be a fan of the older player but when they have very little footage available I tend to discount them as I have nothing really to work on.
 

Michaelf7777777

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Here are my all time XI's, based on first country played for, for the 9 countries with the strongest all time sides in my opinion (the eight countires that have won the world cup and the Netherlands)

Brazil



Italy



Argentina



Germany



France



Henry is the Left Inside Forward whose name has been left out of the image above

Uruguay



England



Spain



Netherlands

 
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GodShaveTheQueen

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Italy

 

Michaelf7777777

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@Michaelf7777777 You Italian side makes sense but why Bulgarelli over Rivera?
I rate Bulgarelli as at least on par with Rivera but because he spent all of his career at Bologna (except for 2 games at the end of his career in the USA), he isn't as well known. As of 2009, Fabio Capello thinks he is the greatest Italian midfielder ever. One of his teammates at Bologna who was head of the Italian Footballers Association for 43 years described him as having the skills of Rivera and Mazzola put together which means that he will be able to contribute more defensively than Rivera would.
 

Physiocrat

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I rate Bulgarelli as at least on par with Rivera but because he spent all of his career at Bologna (except for 2 games at the end of his career in the USA), he isn't as well known. As of 2009, Fabio Capello thinks he is the greatest Italian midfielder ever. One of his teammates at Bologna who was head of the Italian Footballers Association for 43 years described him as having the skills of Rivera and Mazzola put together which means that he will be able to contribute more defensively than Rivera would.
Interesting stuff, do you know if there is an all-round compilation of him?

Wasn't just another switch like Di Stefano. Won a world cup with them.
True, but still
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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True, but still
Actually another player who doesnt get his due credit in our drafts is Bedin.

Should have used him instead him instead of Monti. Was after all the defensive lynch pin of Grande Inter
 

Šjor Bepo

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they can probably send three GOAT defensive setups yet they cant one midfield one
 

Physiocrat

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they can probably send three GOAT defensive setups yet they cant one midfield one
Yup. Italy is a relative basket case for CMs.

Actually another player who doesnt get his due credit in our drafts is Bedin.

Should have used him instead him instead of Monti. Was after all the defensive lynch pin of Grande Inter
Bedin isn't a bad shout to be fair.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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So for the country most blessed with GOAT defenders, you go with a top heavy formation? :lol:
Err, Italy has won 4 WC's till date and 50% of them are with such formations (WW in 1934, 1938)? :confused:

Also, variety is the spice of life. We already have the zona mistas posted above :)
 

Gio

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I rate Bulgarelli as at least on par with Rivera but because he spent all of his career at Bologna (except for 2 games at the end of his career in the USA), he isn't as well known. As of 2009, Fabio Capello thinks he is the greatest Italian midfielder ever. One of his teammates at Bologna who was head of the Italian Footballers Association for 43 years described him as having the skills of Rivera and Mazzola put together which means that he will be able to contribute more defensively than Rivera would.
Yeah, he's probably my favourite all-round Italian CM/#8.
 

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Err, Italy has won 4 WC's till date and 50% of them are with such formations (WW in 1934, 1938)? :confused:

Also, variety is the spice of life. We already have the zona mistas posted above :)
Not sure what the WCs won in 30s have to do when we are talking about players who weren't even born then? Unless you are questioning the fact that the all time pool of Italy is defense heavy when talking about player quality. It's like putting up a Brazilian all time XI and going 5 at the back.
 

Šjor Bepo

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full muppet:lol: defensive diamond and still no place for Nesta who is a top 3 CB of all time, unreal!
Tactics: Team wont concede so those 2 up top with the little help from Conti need to invent a goal for the 1:0 win.

 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Not sure what the WCs won in 30s have to do when we are talking about players who weren't even born then? Unless you are questioning the fact that the all time pool of Italy is defense heavy when talking about player quality. It's like putting up a Brazilian all time XI and going 5 at the back.
Take it easy Moby :lol:
Lets just say its my favorite XI rather than the best XI
 

harms

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Just do an uber-defensive 4-4-2 :)

Baggio Riva
Facchetti Scirea Tardelli Conti
Maldini Baresi Nesta Bergomi
Buffon​
 

Gio

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Riva
Baggio - Meazza
Facchetti - Pirlo - Tardelli - Bergomi
Maldini - Baresi - Nesta
Buffon
 

harms

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Riva
Baggio - Meazza
Facchetti - Pirlo - Tardelli - Bergomi
Maldini - Baresi - Nesta
Buffon
Yeah, that's probably the most realistic set up with Conti on the bench as a more attacking right wing option. Such a shame that we only have a few minutes (if not seconds) of Meazza caught on film though :(
 

Himannv

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@GodShaveTheQueen I always thought of Luis Monti as Argentinian but I see now he's played for both teams. Seems a bit of a shame to leave out Facchetti.
 

Physiocrat

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Spain is a really odd one. A mish mash of different styles over time which wouldn't work that well with each other. You either go with Xaviesta and Biscuits or a more direct setup with Gento.

-‐----------------Raul------------
--Villa---------------------Amancio Amaro
-----------Iniesta----Xavi---------
----------------Busquets----------
Camacho--Pique--Puyol--Salgado
------------------Casillas-------------

Raul should work well as a false 9 and Amancio providing a bit more directness than that Spain side had. Still though is Tiki Taki with a high-line.

My preferred line-up is more direct with a deeper defensive line.

------------------Villa--------------
Gento------------------------Amancio Amaro
------------L.Suarez---Pirri----------
----------------X.Alonso----------
Camacho--Hierro--Puyol---Salgado
---------------Casillas------------------

Spain is really poor in the right back area
 

Physiocrat

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Riva
Baggio - Meazza
Facchetti - Pirlo - Tardelli - Bergomi
Maldini - Baresi - Nesta
Buffon
Do you reckon Pirlo and Baresi would work well? I was concerned that Pirlo would want everything played through him which would limit Baresi
 

Gio

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Do you reckon Pirlo and Baresi would work well? I was concerned that Pirlo would want everything played through him which would limit Baresi
Yeah I don't see much of an issue. Even Guardiola wanted to throw him into the tiki-taka mix. And I reckon Baresi would prefer to have somebody with Pirlo's abilities to bounce passes off, rather than the somewhat more workmanlike alternatives. Plus I think he's generally under-rated in this company. He's got the best tournament record of any of their midfielders.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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@GodShaveTheQueen I always thought of Luis Monti as Argentinian but I see now he's played for both teams. Seems a bit of a shame to leave out Facchetti.
Yea, its a shame regarding Facchetti, but as good as the zona mistas have been over the years, when you try to club all Italian players and create one, the midfield and attack dont have the ideal chemistry or player quality or both.

You would want someone more creative than Tardelli like a Suarez perhaps. But you cant add Pirlo there.

Rivera and Meazza don't work without actual wide players for me. (Meazza take it with a pinch of salt as I am basing on what I read)

Mazzola perhaps can but then is not rated very high here (I rate him higher than Rivera, his career trajectory from early 60's to 70's is brilliantly consistent in multiple roles).

None of the zona mistas posted till now made me feel awestruck. Did you with any of them?
 

Physiocrat

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Yeah I don't see much of an issue. Even Guardiola wanted to throw him into the tiki-taka mix. And I reckon Baresi would prefer to have somebody with Pirlo's abilities to bounce passes off, rather than the somewhat more workmanlike alternatives. Plus I think he's generally under-rated in this company. He's got the best tournament record of any of their midfielders.
That's one reason I put Albertini there as he was very good on the ball but not as dominant as Pirlo. It would have been interesting to see Pirlo is tiki taki. My immediate thought it wouldn't have worked with Xavi but you never know.

Assuming Pirlo and Baresi would work then I think this would be another possibility (I'm discounting Meazza due to a lack of footage-

--------------------Baggio-----Riva----------
Facchetti--Bulgarelli---Tardelli---Conti
----------------------------Pirlo------------------------
-----------Maldini---Baresi----Nesta------
--------------------------Buffon----------------
 

BlackShark_80

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Brazil:
-----------Pele----Ronaldo-------
Rivelino---------------------Garrincha
-----------Zito----Didi-----------
Nilton--Pereria--Da Guia--Djalma
----------------Gilmar---------------

Argentina:
----------------Batistuta--------------
Kempes-------Maradona---------Messi
-----------Monti-------Redondo-----------
Marzolini--Passarella--Perfumo--Zanetti
-------------------Carrizzo-----------------

Uruguay:
------------------Suarez--------------
Schiaffino-----Fransescoli--------Scarone
-----------Varela--------Goncalves-----------
VR. Andrade--Santamaria--Nasazzi--JL.Andrade
------------------Mazurkiewicz-----------------

Germany:
-‐----------------Muller------------
Walter----------------------Rummenigge
--------Breitner-------Netzer---------
---------------Matthaus---------------
Brehme--Kohler----Beckenbauer--Vogts
------------------Kahn----------------

France:
-----------Henry----Fontaine-------
----------------Platini----------------
---------Zidane-------Tigana-----------
---------------Makelele---------------
Amoros--Desailly--Tresor---Thuram
----------------Barthez---------------

Italy:
-------------------Riva--------------
Baggio----------Rivera---------Meazza
-----------Tardelli-------Benetti-----------
Facchetti---Maldini----Baresi---Bergomi
-------------------Buffon-----------------

Holland:
---------------Van Basten------------
Cruyff-------------------------Gullit
-----Van Hanegem---Neeskens---------
-----------------Rijkaard---------------
Krol------Stam--------Koeman--Suurbier
---------------Van Beveren----------------

Spain:
-----------------Villa------------
Gento-------------------------Amancio
--------Suarez---------Xavi---------
------------------Pirri---------------
Camacho--Hierro-----Puyol---Segarra
-----------------Casillas----------------

Portugal:
------------------Eusebio--------------
Ronaldo----------Costa---------Figo
-----------Coluna--------Sousa-----------
Hilario--Germano--Carvalho---Correia
------------------Bento-----------------

England:
------------------Greaves--------------
Finney-----------Charlton---------Matthews
-----------Edwards------Robson-----------
Cole-------Moore-------Wright-----Armfield
------------------Banks---------------------
 
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Invictus

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For All-Time National XIs I increasingly like the idea of taking the skeleton of a great team or a great segment, and making qualitative fortifications/alterations rather than assembling one from bare-bones — mostly for chemistry/balance reasons.

Pepe Romário
Sócrates Zico
Falcão Cerezo
Júnior Pereira Lúcio Cafú
Gilmar​

Griezmann Mbappé
Platini
Giresse Desailly Tigana
Lizarazu Blanc Thuram Amoros
Barthez​
Littbarski Müller Rummenigge
Fußballgott Netzer Bonhof
Breitner--Kohler--Kaiser-Vogts
Maier​
Probably not the most heady mix of personnel or individual talents, but the teams should work reasonably well as a collective because we aren't making fundamental changes to the structure of the skeleton.
 

Gio

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Following on from Invictus above, the trick with Brazil is deciding where the proven partnerships should be interrupted for the sake of overall quality. There are world-beating full-back, flank, central midfield and attacking partnerships and it's probably not worth upsetting them for a sideways quality move. On that basis, I've gone for:

Ronaldo
Rivaldo - Pele - Garrincha
Zito - Didi
Roberto Carlos - Da Guia - Lucio - Djalma
Julio Cesar
Cesar to me is the most rounded overall keeper with the highest peak, although Taffarel's overall tournament contribution is clearly the strongest. World-Cup-winning partnerships in Djalma/Garrincha, Didi/Zito, Pele/Garrincha, Rivaldo/Ronaldo/RC all given their place. Cases to be made for Cafu, Nilton, Perreira, T Silva, Falcao, Mauro Silva, Ronaldinho, Rivelino, Zico and Romario.
 

harms

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Quite a tough challenge to make separate XIs for ex-USSR nations. Parts of them look brilliant, but overall there are usually a few weak positions.

Russia

Streltsov
Arshavin - Ivanov - Chislenko
Netto - Voronin
Zhirkov - Shesternyov - Onopko - Anyukov
Yashin​

Ukraine

Blokhin - Shevchenko - Belanov
Zavarov
Konkov - Muntyan
Demyanenko - Kuznetsov - Baltacha - Bessonov
Rudakov
Germany (unbalanced as feck, probably needs a Litti or someone in the place of one of the midfielders)

Müller - Rummenigge
Netzer
Matthäus - Breitner
Schweinsteiger
Brehme - Kohler - Beckenbauer - Lahm
Kahn
France

Henry - Griezmann
Giresse - Platini
Tigana - Desailly
Lizarazu - Blanc - Thuram - Amoros
Barthez
Spain (again, weird formation more akin to their 2010 borefest)

Iniesta - Villa - Raul
Xavi - L. Suarez
Busquets
Camacho - Hierro - Puyol - Ramos
Casillas
Italy (no pre-war players)

Baggio - Riva
Facchetti - Pirlo - Tardelli - Conti
Maldini - Baresi - Nesta - Bergomi
Buffon​
 
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Physiocrat

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England -

Finney----Greaves----Matthews
------Charlton---Robson------
-------------Scholes-----------
A.Cole--Moore--Rio--Armfield
-------------Banks-------------
 

Enigma_87

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For Italy zona mista or 3-5-2'ish one seems the best bet.

@Physiocrat as others mentioned I'd only swap Albertini for Pirlo and Bergomi as a RCB instead of Nesta with Maldini as LCB. Nesta is obviously the better defender but Bergomi is a seamless fit.

For Brazil 5-3-2 or 4-3-3(4-2-3-1) is the best for me.

---Ronaldinho---Fenomeno---Garrincha
------------------Pele
------------Falcao----Zito
Nilton-----Lucio---Pereira-----Cafu
-------------J.Cesar

or

----------Pele------Fenomeno
--------------Zico
B.Carlos----Falcao---Cerezo---Cafu
--------Aldair-----Pereira
------------Lucio
------------J.Cesar