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2021-22 Performances


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AltiUn

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Championship is arguably the 6th best league is Europe (and certainly more relevant for his development at United than other leagues, such as the Portuguese, Serie B etc).

If he can get 35-40 games, in a side likely pushing for promotion, it'll be better than getting half as many appearances in a team parking the bus in the Premier League. Take Januzaj as an example of us getting it wrong by loaning him to Sunderland, where he was in a team that didn't have an attack, or to Dortmund, where he didn't play.

I think some people just have a snobbish and unrealistic view of things if they have a problem with this loan.

It'd be interesting if he smashes it, whether that would propel him straight into the first team, or if it would make him in demand enough to earn a loan next season to a side from a top league.
No it's not. It's entertaining but certainly not one of the best, it is however relevant to his United development, as you said. I'd be very comfortable loaning him to Sheffield United considering how well they looked after Henderson. By what @Blades1889 is saying, it sounds like they have an attacking manager, with a system that plays wingers and a lack of wingers to complete that system, which would suggest a significant amount of gametime opportunities.
 

Champ

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He is not getting playing time because of Sancho, Greenwood and even Mata, not James.

James is insignificant, Amad has played mostly from the right, and James has mostly played on the left and some on the right, before Amad came to the club. Neither is a real choice centrally as we have plenty of options there, and playing some odd minutes won't suddenly change that. Again, Amad going on loan will not be based on James who barely gets time himself. The big change is us buying Sancho, not James.

The one that James is really competing with is Elanga, and it would have been interesting to see if he had played ahead of James gainst Leeds if he was not injured as he played a lot of minutes in preseason, and had better performances than James.
Sancho (can play Right Left or through the middle) Greenwood (can play right or through the middle) Mata (can play right or through the middle) Rashford (can play right left or through the middle), James (can play right, left or through the middle)

You noticing a pattern yet?

Quite obvious that James isn't insignificant in this, although I have never insinuated that James is the reason why Amad is going on loan, but he certainly is a factor in the decision if Amad does eventually go on loan.

Not quite sure still why you can't see that the point you have raised is essentially the same as the one I originally made?!

Elanga is head and shoulders above Amad in terms of development right now, really hope he gets game time this season.
 

Mickson

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It's competitive league but there's no real quality within the teams.
Well, I could agree with that. The top teams in several leagues are probably better than the best in The Championship but as a league overall, it's one of the 10 best IMO.
 

meamth

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Why isn't he getting the playing time here? What is the reason?

Think about it.

James isn't insignificant considering they both play in the same positions. Amad has played wide right and through the middle, James has played....let me guess....that's it, wide right and through the middle.
He's a kid with kid's body, for now.

Let him grow a bit more.
 

Ace of Spades

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Sancho (can play Right Left or through the middle) Greenwood (can play right or through the middle) Mata (can play right or through the middle) Rashford (can play right left or through the middle), James (can play right, left or through the middle)

You noticing a pattern yet?

Quite obvious that James isn't insignificant in this, although I have never insinuated that James is the reason why Amad is going on loan, but he certainly is a factor in the decision if Amad does eventually go on loan.

Not quite sure still why you can't see that the point you have raised is essentially the same as the one I originally made?!

Elanga is head and shoulders above Amad in terms of development right now, really hope he gets game time this season.
None of the players you mentioned have played significantly through the middle. The least of all James.

James is very insignificant, and not a factor for him going on loan. James was there last season and Amad did not go on loan, we bought Sancho and now he is going on loan. See the difference.

The point you are making is not the one I am making, which is the cause of disagreement.

Elanga is not head and shoulders above Amad in terms of development, he has had less time in the men's game than even Amad, he is another that could go on loan, but he has had injury problems in the past and is injured again so maybe that is why he will be kept in the club for a bit longer.
 

Champ

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None of the players you mentioned have played significantly through the middle. The least of all James.

James is very insignificant, and not a factor for him going on loan. James was there last season and Amad did not go on loan, we bought Sancho and now he is going on loan. See the difference.

The point you are making is not the one I am making, which is the cause of disagreement.

Elanga is not head and shoulders above Amad in terms of development, he has had less time in the men's game than even Amad, he is another that could go on loan, but he has had injury problems in the past and is injured again so maybe that is why he will be kept in the club for a bit longer.
Greenwood: 'My best position is number 9'....Mata and James have and will continue to play wide right and through the middle.

Is James ahead of Amad in the pecking order for forward positions, yes or no?

A question was asked of Amad where his best position is, his answer? Wide right. In fact Ole even mentioned he looks comfortable on the right, cutting in. That puts him in direct contention with the players I mentioned, its not rocket science is it really.

Amad only joined us in January, so of course he didn't go on loan :lol: ridiculous.

Elanga is head and shoulders ahead of Amad in terms of development, quite literally. Theres no doubting that, Ole has already stated that Elangas future is dependant on Amad's. So if Amad is sent out on loan, Elanga will stay and be part of the first team.
 

Ace of Spades

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Greenwood: 'My best position is number 9'....Mata and James have and will continue to play wide right and through the middle.

Is James ahead of Amad in the pecking order for forward positions, yes or no?

A question was asked of Amad where his best position is, his answer? Wide right. In fact Ole even mentioned he looks comfortable on the right, cutting in. That puts him in direct contention with the players I mentioned, its not rocket science is it really.

Amad only joined us in January, so of course he didn't go on loan :lol: ridiculous.

Elanga is head and shoulders ahead of Amad in terms of development, quite literally. Theres no doubting that, Ole has already stated that Elangas future is dependant on Amad's. So if Amad is sent out on loan, Elanga will stay and be part of the first team.
Greenwood has barely played as a 9, Mata will play on the right and middle but not James, he has certainly not played trough the middle for any considerable time to say that is a position that he is even considered for. It is mostly left and some right, before we had other options there and injuries there, he won't play on the right much once all options are available.

James is not ahead of Amad in the pecking order.

Yes, Amad is a right winger, the same way James is a left winger. He is not in competition with Amad.

Amad could have been sent on loan immediately after we brought if that is what we wanted, clearly we did not. But with Sancho here, he can go, not because of James.

Elanga is not head and shoulders ahead of Amad, that is simply not true. He has played less than even Amad, and Elanga's future has nothing to do with Amad, and vice versa, the same as James they don't compete for the same positions. Amad going on loan or not is not related to Elanga's future. Elanga could stay, but it is not certain yet and he is injured anyway.
 

Champ

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Greenwood has barely played as a 9, Mata will play on the right and middle but not James, he has certainly not played trough the middle for any considerable time to say that is a position that he is even considered for. It is mostly left and some right, before we had other options there and injuries there, he won't play on the right much once all options are available.

James is not ahead of Amad in the pecking order.

Yes, Amad is a right winger, the same way James is a left winger. He is not in competition with Amad.

Amad could have been sent on loan immediately after we brought if that is what we wanted, clearly we did not. But with Sancho here, he can go, not because of James.

Elanga is not head and shoulders ahead of Amad, that is simply not true. He has played less than even Amad, and Elanga's future has nothing to do with Amad, and vice versa, the same as James they don't compete for the same positions. Amad going on loan or not is not related to Elanga's future. Elanga could stay, but it is not certain yet and he is injured anyway.
Firstly in relation to the bolded part, Ole has himself suggested that what happens with Amad will impact Elanga and vice versa, mainly due to Rashford being out also.

If James isn't ahead of Amad in the pecking order, why is it looking likely that Amad will be going out on loan and not James? Seems a strange decision in that regards. Surely if Amad was ahead in terms of playing time you'd want to keep him at the club rather than potentially loan him to a Championship club?

Why would we have sent Amad out on loan straight away? It would make more sense to get him integrated into the club and evaluate how he gets on before making a decision. Which lo and behold is what the club have done!

Remind me what position James played on Saturday please?!

I think you need to quit with this as it's getting you no where. Nothing you are saying now is of any use to the conversation.
 

GregtheRed_

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You don't have a point
Which is exactly my point.
You don't have a point.
:lol: my point is entirely better than yours.
No, you don't have a point.
Again, my point exactly.
No, you don't have a point.
Think we just have to call it a stalemate lads. :lol:
 

laughtersassassin

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Isn't the fee contingent on him meeting certain parameters, which he won't meet if he remains on the bench for us or stuck somewhere between the U23s and a bench role. He is clearly too good for the unders but still too light for this league and its physicality yet staying here won't benefit him at all if he isn't going to play.

I also don't think that he is going to the Championship as some sort of audition such that it's curtains for him if he fails, our management already rate him which is why they paid big money for him. What this loan will do for him is to give him substantial first team minutes in a competitive league, if he succeeds it could help his case but he isn't going to be written off if he fails there as we have invested too much on him already.
Sancho (can play Right Left or through the middle) Greenwood (can play right or through the middle) Mata (can play right or through the middle) Rashford (can play right left or through the middle), James (can play right, left or through the middle)

You noticing a pattern yet?

Quite obvious that James isn't insignificant in this, although I have never insinuated that James is the reason why Amad is going on loan, but he certainly is a factor in the decision if Amad does eventually go on loan.

Not quite sure still why you can't see that the point you have raised is essentially the same as the one I originally made?!

Elanga is head and shoulders above Amad in terms of development right now, really hope he gets game time this season.
Elanaga is not ahead of Amad in anything other than his physical attributes.

Which he always will be. Amad is small and always will be.

He might get a bit stronger but that's about it.

He hasn't got bullied in a single game for us. And he has got stuck in.

James is like 22 and gets bullied more in games.
 

Ace of Spades

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Firstly in relation to the bolded part, Ole has himself suggested that what happens with Amad will impact Elanga and vice versa, mainly due to Rashford being out also.

If James isn't ahead of Amad in the pecking order, why is it looking likely that Amad will be going out on loan and not James? Seems a strange decision in that regards. Surely if Amad was ahead in terms of playing time you'd want to keep him at the club rather than potentially loan him to a Championship club?

Why would we have sent Amad out on loan straight away? It would make more sense to get him integrated into the club and evaluate how he gets on before making a decision. Which lo and behold is what the club have done!

Remind me what position James played on Saturday please?!

I think you need to quit with this as it's getting you no where. Nothing you are saying now is of any use to the conversation.
No, Ole has said no such thing. Show me where he says that Elanga stays if Amad leaves, if not then stop making shit up. There is no relation between the two.

James is not ahead of Amad in the pecking order. Amad is going on loan to get more game time than he gets here and that has nothing to do with James. James is not a starter for us, nor does he play any significant minutes. He is going on loan to develop as a player, and playing consecutive matches is better than sporadic games for us. A loan is considered as that is considered better for his development. And the championship is not a bad league, plenty of very good players have developed there, not that only championship clubs are after him.

If he was not ready then he would have been sent on loan immediately, and Atlanta were open to having him on loan again. We wanted him get here and be a part of the squad as we were lacking options. Now that Sancho is here that is not the case, not because the evaluation is that he us not ready, just that it is better for him to get more time somewhere than the small minutes he will get here.

Remind me how many players did we have available.

I think you need to stop spouting nonsense and get a clue, you clearly need it.
 

sglowrider

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To be fair, there aren't many that have gone on loan, come back and have had long and fruitful careers at the club.
I can think of only Beckham, O'Shea and Jonny Evans, of which only Becks became a regular starter.
That is not to say the same fate will befall Amad, but statistics are not on his side.
Young Jesse who is just starting out his career...
 

Champ

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No, Ole has said no such thing. Show me where he says that Elanga stays if Amad leaves, if not then stop making shit up. There is no relation between the two.

James is not ahead of Amad in the pecking order. Amad is going on loan to get more game time than he gets here and that has nothing to do with James. James is not a starter for us, nor does he play any significant minutes. He is going on loan to develop as a player, and playing consecutive matches is better than sporadic games for us. A loan is considered as that is considered better for his development. And the championship is not a bad league, plenty of very good players have developed there, not that only championship clubs are after him.

If he was not ready then he would have been sent on loan immediately, and Atlanta were open to having him on loan again. We wanted him get here and be a part of the squad as we were lacking options. Now that Sancho is here that is not the case, not because the evaluation is that he us not ready, just that it is better for him to get more time somewhere than the small minutes he will get here.

Remind me how many players did we have available.

I think you need to stop spouting nonsense and get a clue, you clearly need it.
Right you are.

James is getting more minutes on the pitch becuase he's below Amad in the pecking order...again, right you are.

My original point was Amad isn't ready for the first team yet, you have consistently agreed with that notion yet gone on some rambling diatribe claiming I have no point despite agreeing with my very point.

It's quite clear that you are having a bit of a melt down here so I think it's probably best for all concerned, and certainly for yourself, that we leave this here.
 

Plant0x84

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Look at Chong who you’ve loaned out to Birmingham. MOTM on his debut and looks comfortable in this league already. A Championship loan is not as bad as most of you are suggesting.
Absolutely! It’s just snobbery. Weird how two years with you guys was good enough for Deano, but not for Amad. I imagine you’ll be fighting for promotion which would be a great experience for Amad, plus the championship is a more physical league than the Prem, which will help him improve his strength. I personally think it would be a great move. Makes more sense to me than sending Pellistri to Alaves for example.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Well, I could agree with that. The top teams in several leagues are probably better than the best in The Championship but as a league overall, it's one of the 10 best IMO.
No it isn't.

Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue One, Bundesliga. I think it's quite clear Championship as a league is a much higher level than Eredivisie.
Eredivisie and Primeira Liga are both better than the Championship. The Championship is definitely not a much higher level than either of these.

You may think this because of how close in level all the teams in the Championship are, and how far ahead the likes of Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord are above the bottom teams in Eredivisie. But the 2 leagues I mentioned are much better and the players possess a much better level of technique.
 

Mickson

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No it isn't.



Eredivisie and Primeira Liga are both better than the Championship. The Championship is definitely not a much higher level than either of these.

You may think this because of how close in level all the teams in the Championship are, and how far ahead the likes of Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord are above the bottom teams in Eredivisie. But the 2 leagues I mentioned are much better and the players possess a much better level of technique.
OK, Global Football Ranking disagrees with you: https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/

Eredivisie isn't anything special at all. The teams at the bottom of the table are awful. But yes, and as I said earlier, some top teams are better than the ones in The Championship, Ajax for example.
 

Ace of Spades

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Right you are.

James is getting more minutes on the pitch becuase he's below Amad in the pecking order...again, right you are.

My original point was Amad isn't ready for the first team yet, you have consistently agreed with that notion yet gone on some rambling diatribe claiming I have no point despite agreeing with my very point.

It's quite clear that you are having a bit of a melt down here so I think it's probably best for all concerned, and certainly for yourself, that we leave this here.
James played because we lack options, his time has been decreasing since his debut season, and that will only continue as we get more options. Even without Amad, James will get even less time this season I'd everyone remains fit.

And you are wrong about him not being ready for first team, nor did I ever agree with you about that point. I only agreed that a loan was not a bad idea, and that is not because of him not being ready, which us nonsense, just that he will find it difficult to get time here as we have plenty of options. No where am I implying that he us not ready.

The only one looking like a melt is you, considering that you are the one making stuff up and trying to make this about James.
 

The holy trinity 68

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OK, Global Football Ranking disagrees with you: https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/

Eredivisie isn't anything special at all. The teams at the bottom of the table are awful. But yes, and as I said earlier, some top teams are better than the ones in The Championship, Ajax for example.
It actually agrees with me and disagrees with you..

Eredivisie 7th, Primeira Liga 6th, Championship 11th.
 

Mickson

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It actually agrees with me and disagrees with you..

Eredivisie 7th, Primeira Liga 6th, Championship 11th.
I said it was one of the 10 best, which the rank says (in Europe). If it's better than Eredvise is up for debate. IMO it is but I can understand if you think differently. It's not better than the Portuguese League though.
 

gajender

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Fair enough, sorry if I derailed the thread.
No need for apologies mate I have seen some of Champ's back and forth with other poster as well , he is quite persistent in his arguments and he doesn't seem like one to cede any ground .
 

luke511

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Fair enough, sorry if I derailed the thread.
You haven't, I was having to argue the same thing with him a few pages back. I don't know how someone can argue that Amad is nowhere near first team ready due to his physicality (I presume), and defend James in the same breath. James is just as lightweight as him.
 

Ace of Spades

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No need for apologies mate I have seen some of Champ's back and forth with other poster as well , he is quite persistent in his arguments and he doesn't seem like one to cede any ground .
I will have to remember that in the future.


You haven't, I was having to argue the same thing with him a few pages back. I don't know how someone can argue that Amad is nowhere near first team ready due to his physicality, and defend James in the same breath. James is just as lightweight as him.
I would say even more lightweight than Amad. Amad can actually ride challenges and hold his ground, James just does not have any ability to hold a player back. Floored by a breeze that guy.
 

The holy trinity 68

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I said it was one of the 10 best, which the rank says (in Europe). If it's better than Eredvise is up for debate. IMO it is but I can understand if you think differently. It's not better than the Portuguese League though.
That rank says it is 11th not 10th. 11 is not the top 10.
 

Champ

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James played because we lack options, his time has been decreasing since his debut season, and that will only continue as we get more options. Even without Amad, James will get even less time this season I'd everyone remains fit.

And you are wrong about him not being ready for first team, nor did I ever agree with you about that point. I only agreed that a loan was not a bad idea, and that is not because of him not being ready, which us nonsense, just that he will find it difficult to get time here as we have plenty of options. No where am I implying that he us not ready.

The only one looking like a melt is you, considering that you are the one making stuff up and trying to make this about James.
Some people can be absolutely delightful on this forum.

Glad we agree on the stuff about Amad though.

As you were...
 

Glorio

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@Champ out of interest, where did Ole say Elanga's future is dependent on Amad?

Can't say I've seen anything like that quoted or written anywhere
 

Mr PG

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Sancho (can play Right Left or through the middle) Greenwood (can play right or through the middle) Mata (can play right or through the middle) Rashford (can play right left or through the middle), James (can play right, left or through the middle)

You noticing a pattern yet?

Quite obvious that James isn't insignificant in this, although I have never insinuated that James is the reason why Amad is going on loan, but he certainly is a factor in the decision if Amad does eventually go on loan.

Not quite sure still why you can't see that the point you have raised is essentially the same as the one I originally made?!

Elanga is head and shoulders above Amad in terms of development right now, really hope he gets game time this season.
if you think Elanga is ahead of Amad development-wise you don't understand football. Amad is an assist machine..both in junior and senior football.
 

Champ

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if you think Elanga is ahead of Amad development-wise you don't understand football. Amad is an assist machine..both in junior and senior football.
Then I obviously don't understand football!


To develop means to grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate,
Have you seen the images of Elanga recently, the guy is ripped,
He is physically more developed than Amad, as for mentally neither I nor you can say anything.
Technical development, Amad is a technical player but Ole is saying Elangas development is giving him a headache as he is thinking of keeping him involved in the first team, that would suggest to me that Elanga is developing at a good rate so far and seems to be ahead of Amad in that instance.
 

Champ

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@Champ out of interest, where did Ole say Elanga's future is dependent on Amad?

Can't say I've seen anything like that quoted or written anywhere
Solskjaer stressed that Elanga's future will be tied to those of Amad and Marcus Rashford, the latter of whom is considering undergoing shoulder surgery that could see him miss the first three months of United's campaign.

Of course, with Elanga, a decision on him is a big one. There’s Marcus and his injury status, so we’ll make a decision on Amad when he comes back and sit down with him.”
 

Dve

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Solskjaer stressed that Elanga's future will be tied to those of Amad and Marcus Rashford, the latter of whom is considering undergoing shoulder surgery that could see him miss the first three months of United's campaign.

Of course, with Elanga, a decision on him is a big one. There’s Marcus and his injury status, so we’ll make a decision on Amad when he comes back and sit down with him.”
Where have you been, mate. Rashford had his surgery soon 2 weeks ago and is certainly not considering another one, just for the fun of it.
 
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