It is an attacking role. You can see the difference players like Quenda/Amad make when playing there as opposed to Dalot/Mazraoui.
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It's more of a midfielder/winger than defender, they should be higher than our two CMs. I've not looked but I reckon if you compared old school wingers like Beckham and Quenda their average position would be similar.
The difference is we're not used to that anymore as wide players are nearly all proper wide forwards.
The role is the same. Quenda/Amad are just better at attacking than Dalot and Mazraoui.
Hence why having an attacking player there is key to the system.
I think the difference is that old school wingers had full backs behind them, and wing backs do not.
I also don’t think this debate is particularly subjective. Amorim has described the role, and done so specifically in response to questions about him using Amad there. He said the role is ‘just 1v1. Going both ways.’ That clearly dictates that the role is equal parts pffensive as it is defensive.
I also think the attacking aspect of the role is not even necessarily the point. You can’t play offensively from the inside, or from the outside. Even if both offensive, it is a different game. Cunha, for example, is coming to play as an attacker. If ‘wing backs in Amorim’s system is another attacking role’, should we consider him for both? The fact is, his own skill set is more suited to a particular type of attacking than the other. He’s jot suited to running the touchline. Jeremy Doku, for example, or Anthony Elanga - are better equipped to attacking in this particular way, even if we say that both roles are attacking roles.
I don’t think Amad is best suited to running the touchline all game. He has a lot more to offer inside than just this.
But this isn’t American football where a player only plays offensive or defensive roles. The other team will have the ball and Amad will be forced to be a defender.
It’s key for the attacking part of the system. And even then, ‘attacking player’ doesn’t really have any meaning. Should we play Zirkzee there? There are particular attacking qualities that are suited to playing wing back, not just attacking.
Yes, but the idea is that we will dominate the territory for the vast majority of games. Even now, look at the positions Amad takes up when playing at wing-back. He looks like one of our most likely source of goals.
No, we should not play Zirkzee there. Amad has qualities that are perfectly suited to the role.
Everyone still pretending Amorim wants to play players like Amad full time at WB? 
He’s played him there 5 times and every other game he has him at 10. He clearly wants better defensive players at WB.
He’s played him there 5 times and every other game he has him at 10. He clearly wants better defensive players at WB.
I mean I fundamentally disagree with you on what the role involves. We might have seen it primarily be a touchline role so far but Amorim has always had his wing backs come inside and play the through ball or go for goal. Amad will just be asked to do that Quenda role and it's not much different than what he did at Sunderland either.
I'd probably prefer him at the 10 but it's squad dependent and he'll still excel at wing back such are his qualities.
Wingbacks underlap and invert in Amorims system so wouldn’t rule out Amad there
Ultimately, Amad will have some say in where he plays. If he doesn't like WB but keeps getting put there, he'll end up leaving the club as hell be a hot commodity.
Where is he playing then? He isn't playing second fiddle to Cunha and Mbeumo.Everyone still pretending Amorim wants to play players like Amad full time at WB?
He’s played him there 5 times and every other game he has him at 10. He clearly wants better defensive players at WB.
I think we had more options at wing back than 10 available most times and also lack confidence in the midfield ability to cover.Everyone still pretending Amorim wants to play players like Amad full time at WB?
He’s played him there 5 times and every other game he has him at 10. He clearly wants better defensive players at WB.
Amad played alot at wb especially when Amorim first came (when he did not realise how shit the midfield was) and when we had more options in attack (Rashford)
I think Amad could well be an option at wb and I also think his best performances came at wingback
Everyone still pretending Amorim wants to play players like Amad full time at WB?
He’s played him there 5 times and every other game he has him at 10. He clearly wants better defensive players at WB.
I'm convinced he will. The RCM will have to be the more defensive of the two and cover for Amad's defensive failings. The RCB has to be on point as a wide center back and also should be very comfortable defending wide spaces. Do you have an issue if he plays Amad at WB? Or are you just saying based on your understanding of Amorim's tactics, he won't play him at WB?
I worry a bit about this. There was a recent interview and he was asked what was the hardest position to play and he said wing back. Generally if a player is viewed as a wing back, they aren't as well recognized / compensated as they would otherwise. Even this place has many preconceptions about wing backs despite watching Amad play there quite successfully.
Nar, he played him there 4 times in total before the injury.
Everything during the injury claimed we were only playing fullbacks because of Amad’s injury yet once he returned, he was back to being a 10 again.
I have absolutely no issue with it, in fact I’d be much more behind the manager if he ever played much more expansive.
But time and time again, even after those goals v Southampton at WB, as quick as possible he reverted to type and put Amad at ten and got a fullback in at WB.
It’s fine to go on pretending we all know about his system and what he wants to do with it but the proof is in the pudding and so far he’s been extremely reluctant to play anything but defensive players in those positions. Just because he might’ve done something different in Portugal means nothing here, you can get away with things in Portugal that you clearly can’t in the Premier League and that has already given him a rude awakening.
I said he played 10 because we lacked options at 10 and Anorim did not trust the midfield not because of his injury.
Hes scored more goals from the wb position than from 10 and we are signing 2 starting 10s
You ”said”. That’s simply your opinion.
The evidence so far shows that despite him scoring more from WB, the manager rarely wants to play him there.
I obviously hope you’re right because I’ve been one the biggest critics of this 5 man back line nonsense.
Yes thats why he has played him there often even post injury
If you are convinced that Amad is not playing second fiddle to anyone, why do you not see Mbeumo as a wing back then? Or is that supposed to be Amad’s preferred position or something? Both players are forwards, have always been forwards. I think we need more than one quality player coming in there, and I don’t think it’s impossible that we have a 3 for 2 places in that role, with players like Cunha and Mbeumo also being able to play as centre forwards, and Amad seen as a wing back option.
I think the reality is that whenever Dalot has been fit and available, he has generally been Amorim’s first choice RWB (since Dorgu came). I imagine he will not be sold, and I expect him to be the first choice again this coming season. Amorim could have played Amad there against Spurs last week, but opted for Mazraoui in this role that you guys are claiming that he sees primarily as an attacking role instead. I can’t see it being his default position.
In the same interview, he also said he wants to become one of the best players in the world. I doubt he meant ‘world’s best wingback’. It’s very unlikely he will accept becoming a default wing back, just as we would never ever be able to sign a top class winger from anywhere else with the proposition of them becoming a full time wing back. The players that will join teams to play there are players like Nouri, Kerkez, Dumfries etc who have always been full-backs. Either that or average wingers who are just happy to be here. We wouldn’t see Doué, Raphinha, Vini and co joining teams to play wing back. And as evidenced by- we wouldn’t even get the same Quenda that everyone seems to be referring to as their justification. He instead chose to go to Chelsea because he had no intention of playing as a wing back.
Lot of debate here but it seems like a non-issue to me.
There will be plenty of rotation and injuries. He will likely play in both positions similar to what he has done this season.
There will be plenty of rotation and injuries. He will likely play in both positions similar to what he has done this season.
Competition for spaces is a bad thing. With a bit of luck one of Mbuemo and Amad will always be injured so we don’t have this awful scenario of having quality players that can make an impact off the bench.
I don't see us signing Mbeumo to play as a wing-back, partly because he's far too expensive for that role. Amad is a superior ball carrier and footballer in general, whilst Mbeumo has shown himself to be very productive and more limited in what he can do outside of the penalty area.
Time will tell. I don't see Amad as a bench option.
I think even by your description here Amad sounds better suited to playing inside. Mbeumo has a far better engine and if anyone looked at both players and had to (strangely) choose one to play as a wing back, it would almost certainly be Mbeumo based upon skillset.
A player who just scored 20 league goals is not going to be put at wing back over Amad (who scored and created the majority of his goals from there)
I’m not concerned with what blade of grass Amad’s goals were scored from. He scored them from the right side of the attack. If that’s what we’re doing then Mbeumo is not a 10 so scored zero goals from there last season. He scored playing RW. He also scored a number of his goals from the penalty spot.
In any case, I am not advocating for Mbeumo to play as a wing back either. It would be no less moronic than playing Amad Diallo as a wing back, given both are forward players. Amad has been the best forward player we have this season. Mbeumo has (probably) been Brentford’s. Obviously, neither player should be playing as a wing back. I just think people need to stop doing this thing where they act as if things that are obviously not a good idea, are. Why on earth would Amad be a wing back? He’s been a forward his entire career. He has great close control and can navigate congested areas, and can score goals. And I couldn’t give a heck what Geovanny Quenda did either tbh. Who the hell is Quenda? A kid who just turned 18 playing in Portugal, who himself has insisted that he is not a wing-back.
Feck Amorim for the fact that we’re even having this discussion!
Actually Mbuemo didn’t score all of his goals at RW… some were at CF and some were as a 10…
Okay, well Amad also scored goals as a 10. In addition to that not being the only thing that footballers do on the pitch - he’s also just a far better footballer and a player you want on the ball in areas where space is limited, and doesn’t have the engine for areas where space is massively open.
All his best games this season have been at wing back. He has largely struggled whilst playing inside.
You still think of WBs as defenders, that's your problem. They're meant to be wingers who get forward to form a front 5. Amorim always refers to them as wingers. That's why Amad has done well when he's played there, breakfast l because he actually gets into wide areas. Playing as the 10 means he has to stay narrower, or abandon the position to go out wide
Lot of faith in this kid, think he can be close to Saka's level. Expect him to go into even another level next season.
A major reason to why he has struggled is because the team does not progress the ball to him in progressive areas and neither does he have lots of movement around him. Mazraoui does not have the athletic capability to be up and down the wing and he's had very limited time with Dalot on his side.
I personally have no issue with where Amad plays as long as we're not asking him to play behind or feed worse/lesser players. With the current personnel we struggle to play it out from the back, struggle to control and progress it through midfield. Therefore at RWB, he's essentially dropping deep near in his own half picking it off the RCB and then trying to make forrays 40-60 yards ahead with the whole opposition in front of him and then passing it to players like Garnacho, Hojlund, Mount (to a lesser extent) etc who don't create themselves or give him something to bounce off.
If it was Wirtz ahead of him and two Caicedos in the middle dominating the middle, I'd have no issue with Amad in the RWB because at least we'd know he'd be getting the ball in advantageous areas with less emphasis of him needing to drop deeper to play more tempo and link up possession. However, that's not the case and if we bring Mbeumo in front of him, I'd say that's creating the issue I mentioned above. It'll still be miles better than our current set up because we would on paper have two marauding/athletic profiles with proven productivity that can cause havoc in the opposition half but Amad may still be creating/passing it to Mbeumo first before he can then get any opportunity to attack the opposition box himself. It's bit of an upwards but at the same time sideways step of where we'd want Amad and his development to be i.e as near the opposition final third as possible.
Of course it's just rumours and we may/may not get Mbeumo and he may/may not be the 10 but Amad's 'best' position is more nuanced than where he's been 'effective' most this season.
He’s been largely excellent all season. Given the fact that he’s played limited football at wing back at all, your summation would suggest he’s had a poor season, which he hasn’t.
I don’t. I think of them as wing backs.
And Amorim doesn’t ‘refer to them as wingers’ either. He refers to them as wing backs. And for the cast majority of the season, he has played fullbacks in this role (whether Amad has been available or not).
Because there is no young Casemiro out there. And if he would, he would be crazy expensive, rather willing to a place with better chances on silver ware and he would probably still struggle if played next to an AM disguised as CM.
No I don't think you are right here. A wingback has works the wing. He is neither an attacker, nor a defender. He is both because he works the wings. Whether a manager prefers one skillset over the other depends on his ideas for the team but the position itself isn't either one or the other.
Do they? I've watched a few of those tactics breakdowns for Amorims Sporting side and I don't recall anything like that. At the end of the day, the wingbacks are the cornerstones of the 3-4-3 formation to provide width. There are no other players to do that, so who would the wingback underlap with? One of the 10s who goes out wide? Something like that is possible but I'd say, we are probably better off for now to make the system work as it is.
For what its worth, I don't rule Amad out as well. It is good that he has the ability to play there. But it certainly shouldn't be the default. Because you want a player like that to be involved and as the player who is providing the width, thats not ideal. Just remember Rashford under ETH, he hated his position because he had to hold width and was therefor further away from the action.
Fekir?!
I was probably Fekir's biggest fan on here back in the day but I think that ship has sailed.
Yes they do
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