[Hammondo]

One of our best players last season. A big uproar amongst fans when Ten Hag wasn't playing him. Now we are seeing him being forced to play wingback....which is effectively fullback in this system. A complete waste of his talents.

Our wingbacks are not like fullbacks.

 

[acnumber9]

He's never once looked like he's playing fullback. For all the flaws in the system, stopping Amad from being high up the pitch isn't one of them.

No, instead we have two left wingers who both want to occupy the same space and cut inside leaving us devoid of any width.

 

[TwoSheds]

Creating competition for places from a position of strength is a legitimate strategy. But if you are starved for quality in multiple areas of the pitch it’s a genuinely strange one.

It's a perfectly normal thing to do when a player you want becomes available. We're shit because the coach isn't very good and/or the players have no belief, not because we need a world class player in every position. Obviously to be the best of the best you do but then you'd also need a squad too.

No midtable team is passing up the opportunity to buy a forward who could take their attack up a level to buy a prospect in midfield instead, even if their midfield needs work. There are some calibre / fit of players you just go for when they're available and I really don't think Mbeumo and Cunha are poor choices from that point of view.

 

[JJ12]

No, instead we have two left wingers who both want to occupy the same space and cut inside leaving us devoid of any width.

They both provide width and they both cut in. They aren't thick, they should be able to work that out through time together.

The system isn't working for other reasons.

 

[acnumber9]

They both provide width and they both cut in. They aren't thick, they should be able to work that out through time together.

The system isn't working for other reasons.

They shouldn’t have to work it out, it’s fundamentally flawed. Both have a natural inclination to cut in on their stronger foot. Neither thrive going on the outside.

 

[flameinthesun]

He's never once looked like he's playing fullback. For all the flaws in the system, stopping Amad from being high up the pitch isn't one of them.

Our wingbacks are not like fullbacks.

If you look at the average positions, our Wingbacks play much closer to Fullbacks than Wingers.

 

[Idxomer]

He's never once looked like he's playing fullback. For all the flaws in the system, stopping Amad from being high up the pitch isn't one of them.

He does though, like against Fulham. There's a reason Amorim often prefers to play with an actual fullback instead of him.

 

[Fortitude]

No, instead we have two left wingers who both want to occupy the same space and cut inside leaving us devoid of any width.

I think also last season both players were free-spirited players who had carte blanch to do what they wanted and had others literally move out of their way to permit them to play their game. You now have a case of both of them not being able to be that maverick because it steps on the toes of the other, so it’s not just cutting inside that becomes problematic but the unpredictable nature of when they want to go outside. Neither of them suit playing on tracks so it was vitally important that they learned the tendencies of one another to avoid the problems we see.

Amad is not a traditional, classic wingback, but it currently feels like he would have to be for at least Mbeumo to thrive. But if he were a classic wingback, his own game and productivity would be heavily compromised. We have two RWF’s trying to figure out how to play with one another.

 

[TwoSheds]

I think also last season both players were free-spirited players who had carte blanch to do what they wanted and had others literally move out of their way to permit them to play their game. You now have a case of both of them not being able to be that maverick because it steps on the toes of the other, so it’s not just cutting inside that becomes problematic but the unpredictable nature of when they want to go outside. Neither of them suit playing on tracks so it was vitally important that they learned the tendencies of one another to avoid the problems we see.

Amad is not a traditional, classic wingback, but it currently feels like he would have to be for at least Mbeumo to thrive. But if he were a classic wingback, his own game and productivity would be heavily compromised. We have two RWF’s trying to figure out how to play with one another.

Isn't it awful that a footballer should be asked to use their brains to work together?

 

[Fortitude]

Isn't it awful that a footballer should be asked to use their brains to work together?

It remains to be seen. Clubs don’t put themselves in positions where like and like are pitted in some 50:50 gauntlet often because it’s generally a bad idea. It’s a risk that isn’t taken lightly with £60m+ assets.

 

[TwoSheds]

It remains to be seen. Clubs don’t put themselves in positions where like and like are pitted in some 50:50 gauntlet often because it’s generally a bad idea. It’s a risk that isn’t taken lightly with £60m+ assets.

So what have Arsenal done with their wingers and CMs then?

 

[Big Ron’s Coat]

It's a perfectly normal thing to do when a player you want becomes available. We're shit because the coach isn't very good and/or the players have no belief, not because we need a world class player in every position. Obviously to be the best of the best you do but then you'd also need a squad too.

No midtable team is passing up the opportunity to buy a forward who could take their attack up a level to buy a prospect in midfield instead, even if their midfield needs work. There are some calibre / fit of players you just go for when they're available and I really don't think Mbeumo and Cunha are poor choices from that point of view.

We’re four matches into the league season and our only goal from open play came from a punt from the keeper.

 

[JJ12]

He does though, like against Fulham. There's a reason Amorim often prefers to play with an actual fullback instead of him.

Amorim has always preferred to play wingers rather than fullbacks in those roles.

 

[Fortitude]

So what have Arsenal done with their wingers and CMs then?

What do you mean?

 

[acnumber9]

Isn't it awful that a footballer should be asked to use their brains to work together?

Even if they do it still puts them in positions where they won’t thrive. They’re occupying the same spaces which makes them easier to defend against and that is because we’re asking them to do things that hamper their natural game.

 

[TwoSheds]

We’re four matches into the league season and our only goal from open play came from a punt from the keeper.

And that's because the coaching is shit, not because Mbeumo and Cunha are shit. Doesn't help that Cunha is injured of course.

 

[TwoSheds]

Even if they do it still puts them in positions where they won’t thrive. They’re occupying the same spaces which makes them easier to defend against and that is because we’re asking them to do things that hamper their natural game.

That's like saying you can't play 2 centre mids or centre forwards or something. Of course you can, they need to not run into each other and play as a partnership which appears to be an alien concept to some of you. Admittedly modern football, particularly with our team of apparent strangers, doesn't often seem to involve using their brains to solve problems but that is the essence of the game. To give up on it is to give up on football for me.

Also Amad has looked much better at right wingback than he did at either left or right wing this year to me. He's just not playing very well which is obviously a problem. He's not our main problem though.

 

[acnumber9]

That's like saying you can't play 2 centre mids or centre forwards or something. Of course you can, they need to not run into each other and play as a partnership which appears to be an alien concept to some of you. Admittedly modern football, particularly with our team of apparent strangers, doesn't often seem to involve using their brains to solve problems but that is the essence of the game. To give up on it is to give up on football for me.

Except it’s nothing like saying that. How many teams play with a left footed wing back or full back on the right hand side? If the answer is next to none, why do you think that is?

 

[Smores]

Even if they do it still puts them in positions where they won’t thrive. They’re occupying the same spaces which makes them easier to defend against and that is because we’re asking them to do things that hamper their natural game.

They're not being asked to occupy the same space, it's a dumbed down view of 'oh they're both good at cutting in' as if that's all they do.

The ask is that given the situation sometimes the wing back cuts in and sometimes the 10. Why people here would rather players do the same thing every time and telegraph their movement for easy defending is beyond me.

Amad is brilliant at those touchline deep runs and Mbeumo is a superb crosser. They're very well rounded players who are more than capable of it.

 

[acnumber9]

They're not being asked to occupy the same space, it's a dumbed down view of 'oh they're both good at cutting in' as if that's all they do.

The ask is that given the situation sometimes the wing back cuts in and sometimes the 10. Why people here would rather players do the same thing every time and telegraph their movement for easy defending is beyond me.

Amad is brilliant at those touchline deep runs and Mbeumo is a superb crosser. They're very well rounded players who are more than capable of it.

I didn’t say that’s what they are asked to do. I said it’s what they do because it’s where their strength lies and is their natural game.

Neither player likes to go on the outside and use their right foot. I don’t know how people can watch and see that this isn’t a problem.

 

[Big Ron’s Coat]

And that's because the coaching is shit, not because Mbeumo and Cunha are shit. Doesn't help that Cunha is injured of course.

I’m not having a go at Cunha or Mbeumo. They are both very good players. But their transfers made no sense with our clear lack of quality in other positions all over the pitch. I agree that the coaching is holding us back massively. But ignoring the spine of the team for luxury signings in positions where we already had decent options was daft either way.

 

[Smores]

I didn’t say that’s what they are asked to do. I said it’s what they do because it’s where their strength lies and is their natural game.

Neither player likes to go on the outside and use their right foot. I don’t know how people can watch and see that this isn’t a problem.

Because the only situation that's true is when they're trying to get a shot off. i know we've had years of selfish cut in merchants but these two aren't Rashford and Garnacho and that isn't the only focus. They're very good at linking play and started the season quite well at doing just that.

To say they don't or are in anyway incapable of making the outside run for the assist is just not true. Especially Mbeumo who was fantastic at an outside run at Brentford.

What I expect has happened is teams know to defend that side and double mark. We need Cunha back to stretch defences on the left because it's a bit too easy for them right now.

 

[acnumber9]

Because the only situation that's true is when they're trying to get a shot off. i know we've had years of selfish cut in merchants but these two aren't Rashford and Garnacho and that isn't the only focus. They're very good at linking play and started the season quite well at doing just that.

To say they don't or are in anyway incapable of making the outside run for the assist is just not true. Especially Mbeumo who was fantastic at an outside run at Brentford.

What I expect has happened is teams know to defend that side and double mark. We need Cunha back to stretch defences on the left because it's a bit too easy for them right now.

You’re making up things I haven’t said. I didn’t say they were incapable, I said it is not where they thrive. Amad has had an absolutely stinking start to the season so there’s very little evidence they link well together.

There’s a reason why teams don’t typically have a left footer at right back or right wing back and it’s because it condenses the play into the centre.

 

[poleglass red]

There's an exaggeration to how bad he has been.

Sub appearance vs Arsenal - he played well and created a few openings with his dribbling
Fulham game - It was a bit of a nothing performance, but I wouldn't call it bad. Dalot was worse after coming on.
Grimsby - He was awful here, his worst performance for United.
Burnley - He played well and was a nuisance most of the game, should've scored.
City - played on the left, which doesn't suit him in any system and was non-existent. He was better when he moved to the right and created United's best chance from the kind of position he should find himself in constantly if he were playing as a right winger.

I think a bit like Garnacho, he's more useful as an impact sub than an actual starter at this stage of his career. This is his 6th season with us now and we've still not seen consistent good play, He's had loans, one in Scotland where he tanked and one at Sunderland in the championship where he did well. Still young at 23 but a very frustrating player. We've seen glimpses where he looks class, in big games as well, but he really needs to start showing impact on a consistent basis. I'm not sure he has it in him to be honest.

 

[Shark]

My two cents is that this manager has completely nullified everything that made him great.

 

[Salford_Red83]

So its Amad's turn now to be sacrificed an the Alter of Amorim?

 

[Pickle85]

My two cents is that this manager has completely nullified everything that made him great.

Or he's been over hyped by a fanbase desperate for a ray of sunshine in the middle of what's been a bleak couple of years. At his best he's, tidy, a good dribbler and a decent passer. At his worst he's a passenger that struggles to impose himself. Still youngish, so it's not that surprising, but he's not the worldie some built him up to be

 

[acnumber9]

Or he's been over hyped by a fanbase desperate for a ray of sunshine in the middle of what's been a bleak couple of years. At his best he's, tidy, a good dribbler and a decent passer. At his worst he's a passenger that struggles to impose himself. Still youngish, so it's not that surprising, but he's not the worldie some built him up to be

When a new manager comes in he’ll be what he should be. A pretty handy back up to Mbeumo.

 

[Idxomer]

I think a bit like Garnacho, he's more useful as an impact sub than an actual starter at this stage of his career. This is his 6th season with us now and we've still not seen consistent good play, He's had loans, one in Scotland where he tanked and one at Sunderland in the championship where he did well. Still young at 23 but a very frustrating player. We've seen glimpses where he looks class, in big games as well, but he really needs to start showing impact on a consistent basis. I'm not sure he has it in him to be honest.

6th season on his contract, which started when he was 18. I'm not sure that the first season should count, as he arrived in January and played for the reserves team a bit. Ultimately, we've never seen consistent good play because he never had a full season of consistently playing without interruptions, except at Sunderland. Considering the state of the team last season, he played as well as you expect from any young forward (11 goals and 10 assists).

I think it's a bit early for that last sentence.

 

[Pickle85]

When a new manager comes in he’ll be what he should be. A pretty handy back up to Mbeumo.

Agreed. I like him but he's not someone we'll have Madrid beating our door down for in the next few years.

 

[Remember the geese]

A lot of people don't seem to want him at wing-back. That is bizarre. He's terrific in that position. It doesn't nullify him going forward. He's our best option by a mile and is a real threat.

 

[Red_toad]

My two cents is that this manager has completely nullified everything that made him great.

Last manager didn't play him, so how so?

 

[FerociousCorgis]

cant really blame amorim for Amad form this season. He is getting forward plenty, just honestly amad has played like shit so far this season. Doesn't seem to be confident really and is just making the wrong decision way too much.

 

[Shark]

A lot of people don't seem to want him at wing-back. That is bizarre. He's terrific in that position. It doesn't nullify him going forward. He's our best option by a mile and is a real threat.

Which is why he's pulled up what stats so far this season?

 

[TwoSheds]

Except it’s nothing like saying that. How many teams play with a left footed wing back or full back on the right hand side? If the answer is next to none, why do you think that is?

Because left footers are rarer than right footers? How many teams over the years have set up with 2 right footers down the right side? Do they automatically get in each others' way? Somebody should have told Gaz and Becks that I suppose.

 

[Cutch]

Which is why he's pulled up what stats so far this season?

Sub first game
Missed an absolute sitter against Burnley
Won a penalty against Burnley
Set up a sitter for Mbuemo v Arsenal

Hes still been busy despite not in top form and has been more threatening than say Wirtz who plays closer to goal at Liverpool.

Should have multiple returns at this point with better finishing which has been the story at United for so long now.

 

[Shark]

Sub first game
Missed an absolute sitter against Burnley
Won a penalty against Burnley
Set up a sitter for Mbuemo v Arsenal

Hes still been busy despite not in top form and has been more threatening than say Wirtz who plays closer to goal at Liverpool.

Should have multiple returns at this point with better finishing which has been the story at United for so long now.

That wasn't a dig at Amad necessarily, I'm just not sure calling anyone a ''threat'' in this bogus system is adequate when we've barely even scored a goal from open play.

 

[Remember the geese]

That wasn't a dig at Amad necessarily, I'm just not sure calling anyone a ''threat'' in this bogus system is adequate when we've barely even scored a goal from open play.

What @Cutch said basically. We are creating threat though. Even against City last weekend we created multiple possibilities by winning the ball high up and by playing through their press with ease. Poor decision making and a poor final ball cost us opportunities and goals. That was the difference. City were far more ruthless.

 

[poleglass red]

6th season on his contract, which started when he was 18. I'm not sure that the first season should count, as he arrived in January and played for the reserves team a bit. Ultimately, we've never seen consistent good play because he never had a full season of consistently playing without interruptions, except at Sunderland. Considering the state of the team last season, he played as well as you expect from any young forward (11 goals and 10 assists).

I think it's a bit early for that last sentence.

23 now, can we still use the young card. I know it's young but we aren't talking about an 18 year breaking through from the youth team. We spent decent money on him. Garnacho was 2 years younger than him and scored 11 goals last season also. First season ,came in Jan as you say write off. Half season in SPL another write off, 1 season in EPL with Sunderland- another write off. That's essentially 2 seasons from his 6 we've got nothing. You can say experience, but had he been good enough he wouldn't have been loaned out. I hope he does come good on a consistent basis, but even in our poor team right now, I don't see where he starts. He won't play as a 10 when Cunha is fit. I don't think he's defensively good enough to play wing back. I'll reassert my point, for us he's at best, an impact sub.

 

[acnumber9]

Because left footers are rarer than right footers? How many teams over the years have set up with 2 right footers down the right side? Do they automatically get in each others' way? Somebody should have told Gaz and Becks that I suppose.

But not non existent? It was a slightly different game then wasn’t it? How many top teams play with a right footer on the right wing these days? How many of today’s wingers play like David Beckham did?

The main reason we don’t see left footers at right back is because it’s not advantageous to do so. If it was, we’d see it more.