Amad Diallo | Sunderland Loan Watch

justsomebloke

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Correct me if I am wrong, but he like the smallest and weakest players in our squad and we send him to League 1* which is as rough as it get's, instead to Belgium, Netherlands or Portugal where he could develop and play.
This. I can't for the life of me understand why we'd want to send a player like that to the Championship. If physicality is keeping him out of the United squad, then you'd think it'd also keep him out of a Championship first XI.
 

Grande

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If there's a pre-existing thread, presumably it wouldn't be an OP? Anyway, happy to be proved wrong but what to date has he shown you to prove he can make it? Maybe this time you can leave your stroppiness at the door before replying.
You just can’t see it, because it isn’t there yet. But if you write an OP for it, it will exist.

Sorry for the stroppiness. ;)
 

Bondi77

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This. I can't for the life of me understand why we'd want to send a player like that to the Championship. If physicality is keeping him out of the United squad, then you'd think it'd also keep him out of a Championship first XI.
A player does get more time on the ball in the Championship if they are smart with their movement and there is a drop off in the intensity of the fullbacks.
I still think this is a really good stepping stone for the Premier League and learning the language and football culture is also beneficial.
 

roonster09

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I don't understand why people are so eager to write off a player. He is still very young and going by the videos posted he has done well in the limited game time he got. It's a long season with lot of games to go, if he plays like that then he will be in starting 11, which is again one more challenge for young player. Winning his position rather than handing him out starting position.

This loan deal looks good, hopefully he keeps progressing at good and steady rate.
 

horsechoker

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I don't understand why people are so eager to write off a player. He is still very young and going by the videos posted he has done well in the limited game time he got. It's a long season with lot of games to go, if he plays like that then he will be in starting 11, which is again one more challenge for young player. Winning his position rather than handing him out starting position.

This loan deal looks good, hopefully he keeps progressing at good and steady rate.

Confirmation Bias, people have already set out their opinion that he won't make it or United's scouting is terrible or Ole's signings we're all terrible and they're sticking to it.

People take some meaningless pride in being right from the go.
 

Dannn411

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The problem with Amad is the club he’s at. United is just too high a bar for most young players. It’s just a fact. The odds are hugely stacked against him ever making an impact in our first team.

We aren’t quite City yet but they are even worse as a young player. Apart from Foden (who’s insanely talented) there aren’t many young players capable of reaching their first 11 on a weekly basis. It’s futile when they just buy someone like Haaland easy enough.

United and City can just buy the finished players with less risk. Garner was a good example. He’s thinking he’s done well and the club just brings in one of the best players of the past 10 years with 5 CL medals to his name.

We end up selling youngsters as profit making outlets really which I’m fine with. Chelsea do that basically and works. Amad cost too much to make good business but worthwhile to take a punt sometimes.
United is not "too high" a bar at all. Certainly not in the last 10 years. There are several youngsters all over Europe that given enough game time could have easily made it at this club over the dross that has occupied our dressing room in the last 10 years. Its all about having the right people in place to identify the great talents and building a merit-based system that allows youngsters opportunities when the senior players are not good enough (which in our case has been regularly over the last 10 years). Comparing us and City is not a fair comparison at all. The senior players who have played for City in the last 10 years are actually players who are worthy of keeping youngsters out of the team. The evidence is in the 4 premier league titles they have won in the last 5 years. That is not the case for Manchester United.

Take Amad for example, under another manager, Amad could have already made that right wing spot his own, eliminating the need to spend 80 million Pounds on a guy that is only 2/3 years older. Instead our mangers were Ole, past-it Mourinho and past-it Van Gaal.
 

MattJ166

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Whilst I'm not amazing talent scout like so many before me the (admittedly small) showings I've seen of him tend to be positive, he always seems like he's looking to progress the ball and can definitely pull off the more intricate passing between a packed defence but he also doesn't seem tunnel visioned and is willing to just recycle possession if it looks like he might run down an alley as it were.

I'm looking forward to seeing him progress
 
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Monks_United

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I actually think he could do well. Interestingly enough, he is more in the mold of the playmaking wide player like Sancho and Antony than the wide forwards like Rashford and arguably Elanga. I do think we would need a prolific forward to work with players of this ilk tbh. You could easily see Amad coming back and being a backup to Antony if he does well since we are arguably the most comfortable in numbers in the wide areas compared to the CF, MF, GK and Fullback backups that we need (which again hopefully is something we could get out of Fernandez and Laird).

We cannot hope to buy a first 11 + backup 11 as well. We need to get some of these youngsters in there as backup even if it is only for a season or two. Move them on post that if you have the funds and opportunity to upgrade. Our problem is that we have gone to the extremes i.e. throwing in academy players into the first 11 when they arguably might not have been good enough and then being reluctant to get rid for decent money and upgrade when there was an opportunity. For me, that is the biggest disappointment in terms of what is broken with out squad building.
 

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He's got loads of talent. He's just tiny and inexperienced. Why do there have to be such black and white takes on him? Anything could happen over the next few years.
It’s the way of the Internet Age, alas.

I fully understand people’s scepticism, given United’s poor record of developing young players by way of loans. This does feel like one of the more promising situations though; Sunderland are no longer a basket case and the manager genuinely seems to want to use the player. Fingers crossed…
 

justsomebloke

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A player does get more time on the ball in the Championship if they are smart with their movement and there is a drop off in the intensity of the fullbacks.
I still think this is a really good stepping stone for the Premier League and learning the language and football culture is also beneficial.
Generally yes, but I still think it's a surprising choice of development arena for a player with Diallo's combination of skills and physical limitations. It seems pretty obvious to me he needs to start by building a successful and consistently impactful game around his technical skills, and since coming to Utd he hasn't been anywhere that would seem to facilitate that.
 

izec

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Top talent. Just needs some time to get things going consistently. I always rated him. We just have no real plan for our talents
 

roonster09

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Confirmation Bias, people have already set out their opinion that he won't make it or United's scouting is terrible or Ole's signings we're all terrible and they're sticking to it.

People take some meaningless pride in being right from the go.
Exactly, also it's amazing people still confuse the role of scouts, somehow think they are the ones signing players.

People love to believe they know what they are talking about, especially when it comes to judging young players and also that they have all the meaningful information to judge how the young player will develop or what the player's ceiling is.
 

Ekeke

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This. I can't for the life of me understand why we'd want to send a player like that to the Championship. If physicality is keeping him out of the United squad, then you'd think it'd also keep him out of a Championship first XI.
How do you think someone gets used to playing football against men that will use their physicality as an advantage? He obviously has to repeatedly do it and get better at it.

Its the same as improving his own physicality. The way the human body strengthens itself is repair after you overtax and damage the muscles. If he's not overtaxing himself in a challenging environment he isnt going to improve his situation.

The good news is that Sunderland are doing the best of the teams we loaned our young players to. So even though he might not get as many mins as some of the other players in weaker teams, he's likely training with and learning from better players and when he does get on the pitch he should be in a team that can capitalize on the good things he can bring.
 

Revaulx

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Generally yes, but I still think it's a surprising choice of development arena for a player with Diallo's combination of skills and physical limitations. It seems pretty obvious to me he needs to start by building a successful and consistently impactful game around his technical skills, and since coming to Utd he hasn't been anywhere that would seem to facilitate that.
Technical schmecnical ;)

ETH prioritises hard nuts and grafters over pretty footballers. There’s no doubt the Championship is a physically demanding league, but so is the PL anyway.
 

Ekeke

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I personally don’t see why Elanga is ahead of him.

Just probably an age and physical thing.
Its pretty obvious. They have a very different style. Elanga makes runs in behind and runs a lot for the team creating space for others. He has a good teambuilding attitude even when he has a game where he isnt as dangerous.

Amad is more of the talented individual player who wants the ball and then he can make a pass or do a piece of magic, but having a team full of those players leaves you without the players to do the less glamorous dirty work of space making runs in front, tracking back wingers, etc. So we're picking the more experienced and proven players of that type and Amad needs to show that he's a better option or that he can do more of the team work.
 

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Technical schmecnical ;)

ETH prioritises hard nuts and grafters over pretty footballers. There’s no doubt the Championship is a physically demanding league, but so is the PL anyway.
Yep very clear that ETH is all about physicality like Mourinho, should have been clear when we signed 6'7 Lisandro Martinez to be our big clunker at CB
 

Revaulx

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Exactly, also it's amazing people still confuse the role of scouts, somehow think they are the ones signing players.
True. It’s therefore doubly unfortunate that both our scouts and the ones signing players have been hopeless. Let’s hope things have now changed for good.

Even idiots can do sensible things by accident on occasion. Let’s hope Amad is one of the sensible things.

People love to believe they know what they are talking about, especially when it comes to judging young players and also that they have all the meaningful information to judge how the young player will develop or what the player's ceiling is.
Very true. A healthy dose of scepticism is vital, but some people just seem concerned about being “proved right”. Because more players fail than succeed, one’s judgement is more likely to be vindicated if it’s a negative one.
 

Mickeza

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It’s actually interesting that because Amad wasn’t first choice for the 6 months he was at Rangers we’ve written it off as a shit loan. By the end of the loan he was starting games again including the cup final with his work rate that he was slammed for by Rangers fans much increased. He’s come back looking bigger, faster and fitter than he did when he left and playing with more intensity. And not being a guaranteed starter is no bad thing if it unlocks that inner determination - he’s clearly worked hard pumping the irons in the summer. What we all need to remember about Amad is that Watford game was only his 20th senior appearance - I do think he will very quickly go from not being ready to being ready. I had doubts Sunderland would be a good fit but they’re building a good young team - if by the end of this loan spell he’s starting games regularly and impacting championship games and dealing with that physicality and intensity then I’d say he’s nailed on to be a very good player.
 

justsomebloke

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How do you think someone gets used to playing football against men that will use their physicality as an advantage? He obviously has to repeatedly do it and get better at it.

Its the same as improving his own physicality. The way the human body strengthens itself is repair after you overtax and damage the muscles. If he's not overtaxing himself in a challenging environment he isnt going to improve his situation.

The good news is that Sunderland are doing the best of the teams we loaned our young players to. So even though he might not get as many mins as some of the other players in weaker teams, he's likely training with and learning from better players and when he does get on the pitch he should be in a team that can capitalize on the good things he can bring.
The point is that learning to deal with physicality shouldn't be the first priority. He needs to develop his technical game first, because that's what's going to put him on a good team in a good league.
 

justsomebloke

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Technical schmecnical ;)

ETH prioritises hard nuts and grafters over pretty footballers. There’s no doubt the Championship is a physically demanding league, but so is the PL anyway.
That's debatable, but even if it's correct, being a grafting hard nut isn't what is going to put Amad Diallo on United or any other team. Physicality isn't his game, it's just something he has to learn to deal with to create the space for what is his game. And I question that the optimal way to develop that game is putting him in a league and on a team where he has to have a lot of focus on dealing with how physically challenging things are. The PL naturally wouldn't be any better - if he was ready to play there regularly, he wouldn't be loaned out.

But of course, it depends on where you think he is in his development process. If you consider him basically fully formed in his technical game, then he'd be at the point where learning to thrive in this environment should indeed be next on the agenda. If United thinks this is the case, Sunderland makes sense, and so did Rangers before that. But, and this is the big issue for me, he has never at any point in his career started regularly for any senior level team. Ever. He had just a couple of sub appearances for Atalanta, not a lot more for United, and he was an infrequent starter at Rangers. How can anyone be considered more or less fully formed given that? And if he isn't, I don't understand how it's not best for him to go somewhere he can play regularly and focus on the things that are going to be the basis for his game, rather than on the things that are going to work against him. THEN he can go play for Stoke or whatever to learn to deal with the physicality.
 
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CM10

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Shame the goal he set up got disallowed, that cross was on the money. Mowbray's comments suggest he quite likes him so hopefully it won't be too long before Amad's starting games.
 

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That's debatable, but even if it's correct, being a grafting hard nut isn't what is going to put Amad Diallo on United or any other team. Physicality isn't his game, it's just something he has to learn to deal with to create the space for what is his game.
it’s absolutely baffling to me that we’re currently watching City dominate this league with Foden and Silva working their arses off every week and people still say stuff like this. Working hard and running into spaces isn’t an option. There is no level of technical talent Amad can possess where it allows him to play with little physicality. ETH doesn’t favour work rate and physicality over technical ability - he demands both. Just like Pep.
 

Nou_Camp99

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What have you got to go on? He's certainly talented. He desperately needs games and preferably for a side that's not massive underdogs (like Pellistri unfortunately had when he was in Spain). I think the fee may mess with some people's perspectives. If he'd have been bought for 10m I think there would be a lot more patience.

I think he'll turn into a very good player if we manage his career properly.
Couldn't get regular game time at Rangers. Now struggling at a team newly promoted from league one.

That's not the level this club aspires to be at.

I'd be amazed if he's not sold within the next 2 years.
 

Revaulx

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That's debatable, but even if it's correct, being a grafting hard nut isn't what is going to put Amad Diallo on United or any other team. Physicality isn't his game, it's just something he has to learn to deal with to create the space for what is his game. And I question that the optimal way to develop that game is putting him a league and on a team where he has to have a lot of focus on dealing with how physically challenging things are. The PL naturally wouldn't be any better - if he was ready to play there regularly, he wouldn't be loaned out.

But of course, it depends on where you think he is in his development process. If you consider him basically fully formed in his technical game, then he'd be at the point where learning to thrive in this environment should indeed be next on the agenda. If United thinks this is the case, Sunderland makes sense, and so did Rangers before that. But, and this is the big issue for me, he has never at any point in his career started regularly for any senior level team. Ever. He had just a couple of sub appearances for Atalanta, not a lot more for United, and he was an infrequent starter at Rangers. How can anyone be considered more or less fully formed given that? And if he isn't, I don't understand how it's not best for him to go somewhere he can play regularly and focus on the things that are going to be the basis for his game, rather than on the things that are going to work against him. THEN he can go play for Stoke or whatever to learn to deal with the physicality.
I think you’re doing the Championship a disservice here; for all its toughness, there are plenty of sides that play decent football. It isn’t comprised of Pulis-era Stokes by any means, and the variance in quality of opposition is surely a lot less than in the SPL.

The key thing, as you say, is that he gets games. Pellistri couldn’t get them at the worst side in La Liga; at least Sunderland is just down the road and it should be easy to monitor how he’s getting on there. Mowbray may not be the greatest manager in the world, but he looks like he’s genuinely keen to have Amad at his disposal.
 

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The point is that learning to deal with physicality shouldn't be the first priority. He needs to develop his technical game first, because that's what's going to put him on a good team in a good league.
Not if they cant have an okay game against someone a bit physically stronger than them. Every player from every team will face that a lot, because thats the way weaker teams play against stronger teams
 

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He is 20 years old, he's small, not much first experience. Ignore the price for now and how much we could recoup. He is very talented, maybe he is not a winger, I can see him coming through the middle and at his age, it's rare to see youngsters at big clubs command a place. I think he will need to spend 2 years on loan before we really know what he can do. Unfortunately the injury he had at start of last season set him back 6 months to a year. He could have played more regular football in the Netherlands. Rangers probably was not the best place but he did play a decent role in a cup win which hopefully should make him hungry for more. When I see him, I think David Silva but he needs to continue to grow into his body and build better upper strength. He's been at Sunderland for a few weeks now, he won't start straight away, he's competing with people who have played more first team games than him, so as he gets more experience we should know more. Ruling him out based on a fee and him not getting games is too premature.
Tldr: needs to bulk up.
 

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Confirmation Bias, people have already set out their opinion that he won't make it or United's scouting is terrible or Ole's signings we're all terrible and they're sticking to it.

People take some meaningless pride in being right from the go.
Absolutely spot on.
 

Remember the geese

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Lots of United fans doubling down on Amad now. They have already made their bed in the 'he's quality' camp.

Honestly never understood the hype. Most of the football he played before joining us was for Atalanta's second team. He hadn't even made 20apps in the first team, had he?

An absolute travesty of a signing. He's not going to make it here.
Very odd that you can't see the hype. He is quite obviously a really talented footballer. How is it a travesty of a signing? If we compare him to Dan James briefly, Amad's fixed fee was a similar amount of money to James' and will only climb towards £40m if he becomes a World Class player, practically. Out of the two of them, Amad is the superior talent. There is no reason why he can't compete with Antony for a place on our right hand side. Even if we don't allow him that opportunity and decide to sell in the future, we should be competent enough to get our money back for him.
 

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So you think someone will pay 40+ for Amad (for us to make a profit)
I think it should be made very clear to people that we didn't pay £40m up front for Amad. Unfortunately this myth is clouding the judgement of many posters here. Amad cost something along the lines of £18/19m. His fee will only reach closer to £35m if lots of objectives are achieved and he essentially becomes a top player.
 

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who gives a shite if we make a profit? We’re not Dortmund

only thing that matters is if he’s good enough for the first team

if he isn’t we’ll lose money on him, no doubt
 

Trequarista10

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It’s actually interesting that because Amad wasn’t first choice for the 6 months he was at Rangers we’ve written it off as a shit loan. By the end of the loan he was starting games again including the cup final with his work rate that he was slammed for by Rangers fans much increased. He’s come back looking bigger, faster and fitter than he did when he left and playing with more intensity. And not being a guaranteed starter is no bad thing if it unlocks that inner determination - he’s clearly worked hard pumping the irons in the summer. What we all need to remember about Amad is that Watford game was only his 20th senior appearance - I do think he will very quickly go from not being ready to being ready. I had doubts Sunderland would be a good fit but they’re building a good young team - if by the end of this loan spell he’s starting games regularly and impacting championship games and dealing with that physicality and intensity then I’d say he’s nailed on to be a very good player.
Agreed. Challenges/struggle/difficulties are better learning and development opportunities than instant success at a level that doesn't provide a challenge.

I have no idea if Diallo will make it at United or not, but I'm confident before long he will be invaluable at Sunderland and then he's well positioned to make a further step up next season - either another loan perhaps to a top division side, or as part of our squad.

He's an unusual case because he was bought for a huge fee without much first team experience. I don't have unwavering faith in our scouting/recruitment team, nor our ability to transition youth players into the first team, but he's obviously talented from what we've see of him so far and given the outlay we've spent on him I do expect we'll give him opportunities before we consider moving him on. Whether he takes those opportunities or not nobody has any clue beyond wild speculation based on limited info.
 

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Some fantastic takes here, writing off a player at 20, who hasn't had a lot of first team football. He will only improve with more game time and looks like he will get that with this loan - injury permitting.

Maybe just let him develop on the loan and try and have a bit of patience with young players?
 

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Some fantastic takes here, writing off a player at 20, who hasn't had a lot of first team football. He will only improve with more game time and looks like he will get that with this loan - injury permitting.

Maybe just let him develop on the loan and try and have a bit of patience with young players?
Its just weird coming from fans of a club that has been renowned for developing youth/academy players -- or maybe they are unaware of that?
 

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Some fantastic takes here, writing off a player at 20, who hasn't had a lot of first team football. He will only improve with more game time and looks like he will get that with this loan - injury permitting.

Maybe just let him develop on the loan and try and have a bit of patience with young players?
Ironically the post declaring him a failure talked about it being those giving him a chance doubling down!

He’s looked very talented with obvious physical flaws when he has played but he’s shown wonderful touch and ball playing ability at times, but some have decided he’s awful and a waste of money/time and decided to double down in the bed they’ve made.
 
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