He wasn't cheap. He was bought for c. 36 million euros rising to 40m. For a talent as unproven and raw as he was when we bought him (he barely had any top flight football) that's a huge risk.
Amadou Onana | Ornstein: Villa agree ~50m deal
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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He wasn't cheap. He was bought for c. 36 million euros rising to 40m. For a talent as unproven and raw as he was when we bought him (he barely had any top flight football) that's a huge risk.
Can't say I've really noticed him much since his move to Everton, not that that's really a fair marker. But for a team that has been overran in midfield pretty much every game for the last couple of seasons, it's a bit worrying?
Although I have only witnessed him play a few times outside of matches against United, I noticed that while he appeared physically dominant, his first touch was inconsistent and his passes were subpar. Admittedly, it's a limited sample, but based on a handful of games and a per-90-minute seasonal statistical analysis, I do not see him as a superior player to McTominay, and he may not even be better than Mainoo could potentially become.
I don’t disagree with any of that but sometimes we also need to look at the reasons we outlined. We can’t sign every single player, it’s impossible
Some posters here have this tendency to think if we signed that said player, his trajectory would be the same as with the other club he signed for and he would be class within the same time period as with the other club whilst ignoring how massive the pressure would be and how low opportunities he’s gonna get here for his development. I mean how stupid is that?
Not to mention the same people would be out with their pitchforks if that player didn’t produce from the get go saying the same things how poorly run we are as a club.
Exactly
The only thing McT has over him currently is goals to his game + I don't really understand the need to bring up Mainoo as he's played a handful of pre-season games which aren't really the best place to judge a player.
Utds problem is that we basically never take a chance on a player like that. We buy known quantity after known quantity and then complain that we can’t sell them on - usually due to their high salaries they demand by being a known quantity and the fact they’ve not improved because they were already at the height of their limits. Pair that with us performing poorly in general, has resulted in massive losses.
In certain positions I’m happy to go with that approach. Eg. Onana for GK signing or if we bought Harry Kane as our ST signing.
But for Mounts position I wish we had taken a chance on a younger, high potential 8. There are/were plenty out there.
I really like Onana, but he doesn't seem to me a sure thing on United's midfield.
What it looks to me like we need is someone who's calm, make good decisions, is press-resistant and has good running capacity and physique.
What it looks to me like we need is someone who's calm, make good decisions, is press-resistant and has good running capacity and physique.
I think it's a difference to take a chance on a player like Caicedo who was £4m compared to Onana at c. £35m especially when you had so many issues in your squad addressing. I think it was fair that you went for Casemiro because you needed instant quality. There was as much chance that Onana could flop as he could succeed whereas with Casemiro there was far less risk factor.
I don't really see this as a Mount or Onana choice either. I think Ten Hag wants both types of midfielder which is why you're linked with Onana/Amrabat still.
Sliding into mediocrity. We are no longer a club that fights for the big titles. We’ll become even more irrelevant with signings like this. It’s a shame.
Also, we reportedly actually went in strongly for Caicedo at the time, just like we did for Bellingham when he was leaving Birmingham. But they chose differently.
That's a problem for all top Premier League clubs now though, surely? The money in the PL is so significant that teams in other leagues (outside of those at the highest level) can't afford those players. So basically the pool to sell the most expensive players is Real, Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, other top PL clubs or, now, Saudi Arabia. Otherwise you're looking at teams that can't afford those wages and fees.
At this rate we’ll be claiming members of this forum are better than McTominay
When considering signing Amadou, "potential" plays a huge role as we are basing our decision on what he could achieve rather than what he has already achieved. Personally, I believe investing in a homegrown player's potential is a better choice.
I don't really understand your post?
I think McT is a good PL player, nothing more and probably won't get any better than he currently is. So is Onana but he has the potential to be a top class PL player.
How much football some of you guys watch when you can confidently make such definitive statement about a player . I hardly follow much football outside United I won't even be able to Describe what Kind of player he is can you ?
Yeah, but you have Casemiro and Eriksen over 30 and looking leggy with VdB and McT probably on their way out. That leaves Mount and Bruno as your midfielders under 30 and at the club next summer aside from talent like Mainoo who is untested at PL level. You're going to be signing 1 or 2 more in the next few seasons and it's likely one will be someone of Onanas profile (young but with potential).
Plus it's more the fact that Mainoo has been elevated to ridiculous levels on here due to good pre-season performances. Onana has played at a World Cup and didn't look out of place, same in the PL.
United never bid for Caicedo, they identified him before anyone else but were put off by the complications surrounding his third party ownership so decided not to bid, Brighton swooped in shortly afterwards.
Onana has never put in the performance for you that Scott did v Everton ironically enough last season. On his day he has the potential to overrun a midfield.
It’s not just goals that Scott had over Onana. I’ve yet to see a comparison that Scott comes out on top of and there’s always supposedly valid reasons why, It’s the danger of becoming a meme player. You’d swear he was some 32 year old journey man player
I’ve seen it all when Onana is rated ahead of him.
Potentially controversial, but as an example, I wanted us to go for Palhinha last summer and despite Casemiro’s very good season, I would still argue that at £20m Palhinha would have been a better signing.
Love Casemiro, but for me that’s an example of where our squad building has again been poor. Luckily we have Saudi on the market now, which may save some of our losses on these players.
No, of course Onana wasn’t ever an alternative to Mount. I think that talk has only come about with the McT rumours and Erik wanting another tall, strong, aggressive CM to replace him. Don’t see it happening unless Scott goes.
His progressive passes and progressive carry stats show that his technique is limited, he has a bit of the Micah Richards in that his physical prowess cover for his lack of technical ability.
Or maybe you're just feeding into hyperbole? I've not said McT is a bad player, he isn't. He's a good player but he has his limitations, as does Onana currently but with far more potential. I'd argue Onana vs the league leaders Arsenal was a much better performance.
You're just further proving that you haven't watched him much by feeding into lazy stereotypes.
I've barely noticed Onana but isn't he very athletic? Can really get around the pitch at pace?
Which Fellaini obviously couldn't.
The crux of my argument is not that we should refrain from signing Onana due to our abundant midfield options. Rather, my contention is that Onana falls short of the caliber of players we already possess, and with the availability of talents like Sangaré and Amrabat, investing in him would be imprudent. Furthermore, although Mainoo lacks experience at the highest level, Onana's performance from the previous season suggests that he has only just met the standards.
A ridiculous opinion, especially when you've admitted that you've barely watched him. He has average and below average performances but he showed that he can cut it in the PL quite comfortably. His issues are his mentality more than his ability and the only reason he isn't ready to be a starter at a top club this season. I think by the end of this season he will be polished enough and take steps with that concentration to be ready.
But you bought potential just like we have with Hojlund. What I’m saying is though he cost you that much but he’ll cost another team double that now to take him away from you.
When compiled over an entire season, statistics are damn near indisputable evidence.
Really? Didn't know that. Thanks.
They remove context of how a team plays, where a player plays, the team around him and their positioning and abilities etc. If you're posting them in isolation (which you are) and reducing technical ability to progressive passes/progressive carry stats (which you did) then yeah, I think it's ridiculous. As said before, stats are good and valuable but they're meant to be used in conjunction with the eye test.
For teams that aim to score frequently, progressive passes and carry stats are crucial. Personally, I found that these stats boosted my evaluation of him, as they showed significant improvement compared to my initial impression from limited games last season, where he appeared awkward when facing the goal.
Mount has been widely mocked on social media after 1 game...this lad wont stand a chance, even if he came for free.
Which I haven't denied, but there is much more to technical ability than both of those and if you had watched him in every game you'd see that he has the ability to add those facets to his game consistently and the reason he hasn't/doesn't for Everton as consistently is because of his role in the team and the set-up hence why reducing everything to stats can be problematic.
After reading through the Mount thread comments, it appears that some individuals have immediately dismissed him without giving him a chance to showcase his skills on the field. As a result, I trust your expertise in evaluating a player whom you have watched more extensively than I have.
No one is saying we should.
Mount was given the 7 and most of the nonsense is coming from Chelsea fans
Stood out at Everton last season. Both in terms of performances and height.
Take a look at Manuel Locatelli's Fbref profile before and after his move to Juventus if you think stats give you the full picture into a players abilities. Same player, different team. His legs haven't fallen off so he can still kick the ball but his statistical profile is completely different. He's gone from a 99th percentile progressive passer to a 70th. Statistics don't provide complete context and show tendencies rather than ability. We know Bruno is an excellent passer but if you took his passing completion you would think he's below average.
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