Amber Heard vs Johnny Depp | Depp wins on all 3 counts

[Himannv]

And abuse isn't just physical. It's entirely plausible that he was threatening her and her career.

I think some are mistaking both being guilty of some form of abuse with the phrase "they are both as bad as each other". No it's never that cut and dry, she to my mind (and I do have a lot of experience with a situation like this) is clearly the aggressor and dominant one. But the fact Depp's case both here and in the UK isn't clean shows there's some culpability.

Yeah, I agree with that. It's clear his way of dealing with it generally was to try and get away before it got to a point where is was a full blown war, while she seems to be the instigator more often than not (although I doubt he's free of blame in that aspect). Having said that, there have clearly been instances when it's been a physical altercation where it's unlikely he just always stood there and got smacked around while intoxicated with some substance or other. And as you rightly pointed out, there definitely is verbal abuse from both parties as well.

It's hard to come away from it thinking he's completely innocent and it seems unlikely to me that the jury would think so as well. It's been an interesting case and I think both legal teams have had moments when they've tried to get cheap wins and minor narratives going that take away from the actual issues in question. Ultimately I think they may rule in her favour, which would displease a lot of people, but there's no way she's winning her counterclaim either.

 

[Moby]

I think it's still not proven beyond doubt that he did not hit her at any point and he even admits to the headbutting.

One can say it is impossible for someone who has such kind of a history with substance abuse never had a moment where in an extreme state of being out of their minds they got violent and got physical and of course they'd be within reason for saying that as plenty of alcoholics or addicts do resort to that in that state especially in a martial situation.

However I've experienced seeing addicts also at times go in the exact opposite direction where they are in a constant state of self blame and guilt of being addicted to whatever they are addicted to, and whenever they are using, they just don't get into any other confrontation as they are already feeling guilty of putting themselves, and their family (especially kids) through the 'hell' of living with an addict. And having seen that especially in a marital situation what that can do is drive the partner absolute nuts about the situation (not wrongly btw) because they hate seeing someone they love (and in some cases that someone also being the parent of their kids) in that state, and worse not having any will or mental strength to combat that state. So even through good intentions of getting them out of that state (and this is what Amber has said a few times, that a lot of times she 'initiated' anything it was to stop JD from going into another cycle), they end up taking a wrong action that worsens the situation, and that in turn keeps shifting the addict further and further away from coming to their senses as well.

This is just from my experience of course but the kind of evidence and statements we've seen, it doesn't seem too far from it. Having said that, even in that situation the entire confrontational stuff remains between the two people and at no point the partner of the addict would ever go in public to embarrass the one they have had 'good intentions' of helping and bringing them back to sobriety. That's where all that stops for me, and would differentiate Heard from someone genuinely suffering from the consequences of their partner's addiction and only getting in confrontation as a consequence of that to someone who went on to abuse their partner knowing if anything gets out, they will be able to hide everything behind "they were the ones out of their senses, they started every confrontation and I had to always defend myself". That and of course the subsequent lies that have been exposed multiple times (especially financial ones, that's generally where you can see what someone's real intentions are), erase that notion of Heard for me and easily points towards someone who developed ill intentions (even if it was from the mental stress of living with an addict, it doesn't justify it one bit), and went ahead with turning those intentions into confrontations.

Again that's nowhere near saying Depp never got it wrong, his habits have a huge part to play in why the situation got to where it did, and there's no doubt he would have made the situation worse plenty of times. There's no way for us to exactly pin point what his behaviour leaned towards in those confrontations.

 

[Himannv]

One can say it is impossible for someone who has such kind of a history with substance abuse never had a moment where in an extreme state of being out of their minds they got violent and got physical and of course they'd be within reason for saying that as plenty of alcoholics or addicts do resort to that in that state especially in a martial situation.

However I've experienced seeing addicts also at times go in the exact opposite direction where they are in a constant state of self blame and guilt of being addicted to whatever they are addicted to, and whenever they are using, they just don't get into any other confrontation as they are already feeling guilty of putting themselves, and their family (especially kids) through the 'hell' of living with an addict. And having seen that especially in a marital situation what that can do is drive the partner absolute nuts about the situation (not wrongly btw) because they hate seeing someone they love (and in some cases that someone also being the parent of their kids) in that state, and worse not having any will or mental strength to combat that state. So even through good intentions of getting them out of that state (and this is what Amber has said a few times, that a lot of times she 'initiated' anything it was to stop JD from going into another cycle), they end up taking a wrong action that worsens the situation, and that in turn keeps shifting the addict further and further away from coming to their senses as well.

This is just from my experience of course but the kind of evidence and statements we've seen, it doesn't seem too far from it. Having said that, even in that situation the entire confrontational stuff remains between the two people and at no point the partner of the addict would ever go in public to embarrass the one they have had 'good intentions' of helping and bringing them back to sobriety. That's where all that stops for me, and would differentiate Heard from someone genuinely suffering from the consequences of their partner's addiction and only getting in confrontation as a consequence of that to someone who went on to abuse their partner knowing if anything gets out, they will be able to hide everything behind "they were the ones out of their senses, they started every confrontation and I had to always defend myself". That and of course the subsequent lies that have been exposed multiple times (especially financial ones, that's generally where you can see what someone's real intentions are), erase that notion of Heard for me and easily points towards someone who developed ill intentions (even if it was from the mental stress of living with an addict, it doesn't justify it one bit), and went ahead with turning those intentions into confrontations.

Again that's nowhere near saying Depp never got it wrong, his habits have a huge part to play in why the situation got to where it did, and there's no doubt he would have made the situation worse plenty of times. There's no way for us to exactly pin point what his behaviour leaned towards in those confrontations.

Yeah, I agree it's hard to say exactly how he reacted to the pressure and arguments with his wife in that state or indeed if some of the confrontations were caused by his addiction. The substance abuse and alcoholism might have been what brought most of this on to him, in addition to him and Heard being a bad match for each other generally.

The financial aspect is just a strange hill for Heard to die on really. I mean, all she had to say was she plans to donate but just hasn't done it yet and leave it at that. Instead, she wants to look like a saint in every little thing and says things like "I use pledge and donate synonymously" and "I was going to donate, but Johnny sued me". It's not even a thing that's very relevant for the case but she's trying to justify the whole thing and even blame someone else. Ultimately it just gives the impression that she's giving excuses to keep the money and maybe she is.

 

[Redlambs]

Yeah, the donation stuff, the acting for the jury and the script reading all show a level of calculation which doesn't help and ties in with testimonies about her character.

I know some want to simplify that as "oh misogyny it's because she it a woman!" well I'm sure in many cases it is from outside observers, but in that courtroom they will be looking at stuff like that.

That of course doesn't mean Depp isn't doing the same, he clearly has his own gameplay, but his also shows the bumbling addict at times. But he doesn't deny who he is, whilst she constantly does. The difference there is key.

In any case I still don't see him winning, but then neither ever could anyway.

 

[Drainy]

In any case I still don't see him winning, but then neither ever could anyway.

It will depend on 2 things.

1) the jury instructions
2) how much the jury dislike Amber Heard

My understanding is that one instruction will address the headline republication on twitter and will potentially be in favour of Depp.

Most people who are reporting the sense from inside the court think that the jury actively hate Heard so if true could lead to a judgment that's not based in law, but a socialised feeling of justice - burn the witch after drowning her, if you will.

 

[CraftySoAndSo]

"Denny Crane"

"Donny Crane"

 

[lsd]

It will depend on 2 things.

1) the jury instructions
2) how much the jury dislike Amber Heard

My understanding is that one instruction will address the headline republication on twitter and will potentially be in favour of Depp.

Most people who are reporting the sense from inside the court think that the jury actively hate Heard so if true could lead to a judgment that's not based in law, but a socialised feeling of justice - burn the witch after drowning her, if you will.

She is going to be burned?

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

This is proper redcafe, dissecting a topic to absolute death. I mean the subject was barely entertaining to begin with but you cnuts could turn the last few minutes of the 99 champions league final into a snore fest given half the opportunity.

‘It’s misogynistic’
‘No it isnt’
‘Yes it is’
No it isnt’
‘IMO it is’

 

[moses]

Why the feck is this still going on? And why the feck is it public?

 

[Redlambs]

Now it's actually proper redcafe that we've got some miserable cnut in here telling us how we can't discuss things on a forum.

 

[Drainy]

She is going to be burned?

Her career is burning to the ground, at least.

She’s going to be alright regardless of the result though, in fairness. She'll just file for bankruptcy to discharge any judgment and Elon Musk will probably pay her way.

 

[Drainy]

Why the feck is this still going on? And why the feck is it public?

Don't you think it's better that be can judge the proceedings and evidence ourselves in open court?

 

[Walrus]

And abuse isn't just physical. It's entirely plausible that he was threatening her and her career.

I think some are mistaking both being guilty of some form of abuse with the phrase "they are both as bad as each other". No it's never that cut and dry, she to my mind (and I do have a lot of experience with a situation like this) is clearly the aggressor and dominant one. But the fact Depp's case both here and in the UK isn't clean shows there's some culpability.

Im not sure that anyone on here is disputing that Depp is far from perfect. The key differences for me are;
* Depp comes across as more realistic and willing to accept fault. Every time I have seen Heard speak, it seems far more like a victim mentality with zero acceptance that she has (ever) done anything wrong.
* Depp has already lost a shit tonne of money and credibility over the last few years as a result of what has happened. Heard has had none of that. If we are now saying that they are both equally to blame (which isnt specifically what I am saying, but hypothetically), then it seems very unfair the respective treatment of the two of them over the last few years.
* Heards statements and testimonies appear to be quite riddled with holes, and at times simply calling other people liars. Obviously the point of lawyers is to try to trap people and control the narrative, and you can argue that its simply a case that Depp's lawyers are doing a better job of it, but its hard to sympathise with someone who seems to be just caught up in their own hype and frequently making contradictory statements. The 'pledge vs donate' argument, and the 'tell them Johnny' audio clip by themselves are far, far more damaging that anything I have seen Depp say or do, so far.

 

[moses]

Don't you think it's better that be can judge the proceedings and evidence ourselves in open court?

Nah. I think shit like this is best done like family court, behind closed doors. To protect the reputation of anyone innocent. Also to raise the overall standard of all of our lives. This shit is grim.

Ideally we'd be too busy to give a toss about 2 people we don't know. It's base celebrity worship or do ye lot sit in the gallery of your local courts?

I actually did twice, once as a student journo and once waiting to see a judge about an ongoing legal proceeding. Its much much more depressing without the safety net of privilege and wealth.

 

[Drainy]

Nah. I think shit like this is best done like family court, behind closed doors. To protect the reputation of anyone innocent. Also to raise the overall standard of all of our lives. This shit is grim.

Ideally we'd be too busy to give a toss about 2 people we don't know. It's base celebrity worship or do ye lot sit in the gallery of your local courts?

I actually did twice, once as a student journo and once waiting to see a judge about an ongoing legal proceeding. Its much much more depressing without the safety net of privilege and wealth.

They are both public figures that have alleged that their reputations have been damaged by each others defamatory statements.

It's in the public interest to have transparency in this process to be able to judge for themselves what occurred.

 

[moses]

They are both public figures that have alleged that their reputations have been damaged by each others defamatory statements.

It's in the public interest to have transparency in this process to be able to judge for themselves what occurred.

You sound like Piers Morgan.

Too much judgement around imo. Life is complicated.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Im not sure that anyone on here is disputing that Depp is far from perfect. The key differences for me are;
* Depp comes across as more realistic and willing to accept fault. Every time I have seen Heard speak, it seems far more like a victim mentality with zero acceptance that she has (ever) done anything wrong.
* Depp has already lost a shit tonne of money and credibility over the last few years as a result of what has happened. Heard has had none of that. If we are now saying that they are both equally to blame (which isnt specifically what I am saying, but hypothetically), then it seems very unfair the respective treatment of the two of them over the last few years.
* Heards statements and testimonies appear to be quite riddled with holes, and at times simply calling other people liars. Obviously the point of lawyers is to try to trap people and control the narrative, and you can argue that its simply a case that Depp's lawyers are doing a better job of it, but its hard to sympathise with someone who seems to be just caught up in their own hype and frequently making contradictory statements. The 'pledge vs donate' argument, and the 'tell them Johnny' audio clip by themselves are far, far more damaging that anything I have seen Depp say or do, so far.

The only thing that gets me with this is the use of ‘far from perfect’ to describe Depp. That term, or variations on it, have been used as an umbrella term throughout this trial, usually followed by a ‘but’. i.e. ‘Depp is far from perfect, BUT’.
But let’s be honest with ourselves. It’s a cop out to use that phrase, allowing the writer to appear to be balanced in their criticism without actually acknowledging that there’s a chance he’s committed violent and sexual offences against someone else.. Let’s be specific about what he may and may not have done.

 

[NicolaSacco]

They are both public figures that have alleged that their reputations have been damaged by each others defamatory statements.

It's in the public interest to have transparency in this process to be able to judge for themselves what occurred.

Im enjoying watching this trial but dude, it’s absolutely not in the public interest any more than slowing down to watch a car accident is.

 

[Drainy]

You sound like Piers Morgan.

Too much judgement around imo. Life is complicated.

Oh god, don't say that!

Maybe, but Heard has weaponised that judgement to ruin Depp's career, if he's not guilty then the only way to get his message out is through a public trial - look how a closed court dealt with it previously and how there are people in this thread who rely upon that case's outcome to condemn Depp without seeing just how uncredible his accuser is.

 

[moses]

Oh god, don't say that!

Maybe, but Heard has weaponised that judgement to ruin Depp's career, if he's not guilty then the only way to get his message out is through a public trial - look how a closed court dealt with it previously and how there are people in this thread who rely upon that case's outcome to condemn Depp without seeing just how uncredible his accuser is.

Johnny will be fine and they're literally professional actors so who knows.

Privileged bastards the pair of them. This shit happens to people with no safety net or road back and we couldn't give a toss.

Don't mind me though, I'll be less grumpy after another coffee! Then I should work! !

 

[Moby]

Nah. I think shit like this is best done like family court, behind closed doors. To protect the reputation of anyone innocent. Also to raise the overall standard of all of our lives. This shit is grim.

Ideally we'd be too busy to give a toss about 2 people we don't know. It's base celebrity worship or do ye lot sit in the gallery of your local courts?

I actually did twice, once as a student journo and once waiting to see a judge about an ongoing legal proceeding. Its much much more depressing without the safety net of privilege and wealth.

In normal situations where people not only lose their reputation but also their livelihood, wealth, means to make ends meet and what not it is beyond depressing. I wouldn't be able to get through a full episode of the Jeremy Kyle show if I tried!

People in this case are relatively less disturbed given these two are still gonna have enough to carry on with their normal lives, which has made this more of an entertainment show than anyone being that seriously concerned about their futures.

 

[lsd]

Seems like there are people here that have decided ok Amber has clearly done far worse things in this relationship plus lied and ruined Johnny career however she is a woman so it's only right she faces no real consequences and feck him

 

[Moby]

Seems like there are people here that have decided ok Amber has clearly done far worse things in this relationship plus lied and ruined Johnny career however she is a woman so it's only right she faces no real consequences and feck him

And then have the nerve to accuse others of bias and sexism.

 

[Denis79]

Seems like there are people here that have decided ok Amber has clearly done far worse things in this relationship plus lied and ruined Johnny career however she is a woman so it's only right she faces no real consequences and feck him

Haha yup, Amber can shit on how many beds she wants, take all 10 fingers. She's a woman and hot so we have to feel sorry for her. We are misogynists if we dont .

 

[fallengt]

Why the feck is this still going on? And why the feck is it public?

It's comedy gold. You missed the best show in decade and I'm even not kidding.

 

[Red Stone]

Im not sure that anyone on here is disputing that Depp is far from perfect. The key differences for me are;
* Depp comes across as more realistic and willing to accept fault. Every time I have seen Heard speak, it seems far more like a victim mentality with zero acceptance that she has (ever) done anything wrong.
* Depp has already lost a shit tonne of money and credibility over the last few years as a result of what has happened. Heard has had none of that. If we are now saying that they are both equally to blame (which isnt specifically what I am saying, but hypothetically), then it seems very unfair the respective treatment of the two of them over the last few years.
* Heards statements and testimonies appear to be quite riddled with holes, and at times simply calling other people liars. Obviously the point of lawyers is to try to trap people and control the narrative, and you can argue that its simply a case that Depp's lawyers are doing a better job of it, but its hard to sympathise with someone who seems to be just caught up in their own hype and frequently making contradictory statements. The 'pledge vs donate' argument, and the 'tell them Johnny' audio clip by themselves are far, far more damaging that anything I have seen Depp say or do, so far.

Heard has also played up the innocent victim and domestic abuse survivor bit, even though she was as abusive herself, and played up the generous philanthropist who doesn't need or want the divorce money bit, even though she donated sweet feck all. She used both of those fabricated acts to gain huge amounts of fame and favour with the public.

Even if Depp is an abuser it doesn't change how I feel about Heard. Being that dishonest about such serious issues is a really fecking reprehensible, narcissistic and sociopathic thing to do, and speaks volumes of her complete lack of moral and ethical character. Just the fact that she shafted a children's hospital and still had the gall to still take the credit for her "donation" is disgusting enough on its own, without considering the plethora of other shit on her record. Worthless human being.

Now, if it turns out that Depp is in fact innocent and she knowingly tanked his career on completely false allegations on top of all the other shit she's pulled... Whoo boy.

She's either just a regular big piece of shit or one of the biggest pieces of shit, but at the end of the day, she's shit and her career should be over.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Seems like there are people here that have decided ok Amber has clearly done far worse things in this relationship plus lied and ruined Johnny career however she is a woman so it's only right she faces no real consequences and feck him

You should post quoting the people who have actually said that. Otherwise it might look like you are creating an absurd argument that never actually happened, in order to then shoot it down.

 

[VP89]

She is so clearly acting when she turns on emotion during her lawyer's examination. It must be ridiculously obvious to the jury.

 

[cyberman]

Johnny will be fine and they're literally professional actors so who knows.

Privileged bastards the pair of them. This shit happens to people with no safety net or road back and we couldn't give a toss.

Don't mind me though, I'll be less grumpy after another coffee! Then I should work! !

Having your life ruined by untrue allegations will never be fine no matter how rich the victim is?
Its weird too since lower level abusers are more likely to move on than the likes of Depp due to their actual fame. My sister in law got sexually harassed by a cook at work and he then found work 20 minutes away that was closer to his home!

 

[Redlambs]

The only thing that gets me with this is the use of ‘far from perfect’ to describe Depp. That term, or variations on it, have been used as an umbrella term throughout this trial, usually followed by a ‘but’. i.e. ‘Depp is far from perfect, BUT’.
But let’s be honest with ourselves. It’s a cop out to use that phrase, allowing the writer to appear to be balanced in their criticism without actually acknowledging that there’s a chance he’s committed violent and sexual offences against someone else.. Let’s be specific about what he may and may not have done.

So what are you suggesting that Walrus is saying with that term? That he believes he is guilty of the "violent and sexual offences" but is trivialising them? Because his post and many others read like they don't believe those parts (due to lack of evidence) but do some of the less bad stuff, like being an addict and being horrible back.

This is the problem, it's not an all or nothing. Most in here seem to agree that both are clearly at fault for things, we just don't know how deep it goes. So it's perfectly fair to suggest neither are good people and not having to continue to say either are "allegedly worse in the scale of the abuse" every single time.


Oh and I don't buy the whole "believe" every person who speaks out about domestic abuse either. I certainly never expected everyone to instantly take my side and believe me, what I wanted was to be listened to and taken seriously. You can't just instantly rush in and believe the person speaking out is completely telling the truth all the time, that's exactly how we got here. The original problem here was Amber was listened to and believed, whereas Depp wasn't. That's the crux and ultimately why that people are seeing Heard act like she is and thinking something is up. Because it should always be a two way street, and it clearly wasn't between these two. So whilst we don't actually know the depth of what went on, what we have seen with our own eyes is both sides are guilty of at least being horrible to each other on multiple occasions...so on that front, calling both of them "far from perfect" is entirely apt.

 

[Redlambs]

Seems like there are people here that have decided ok Amber has clearly done far worse things in this relationship plus lied and ruined Johnny career however she is a woman so it's only right she faces no real consequences and feck him

Not sure I'd go that far, but some certainly haven't given a shred of thought to what men go through in abuse cases both as the accuser and defender and forget that misogyny isn't specific to women.

 

[Redlambs]

From experience, one thing that gets me about Heard in particular was that claim of "documenting" evidence for 5 years. What evidence that hasn't been tampered with?

Because I documented shit for that amount of time and I never had to lie or change images, although as per the norm being the man I wasn't believed originally despite all mine, when it went to people who actually knew what the feck they were doing the case went by incredibly quickly from that point. Even down to things like bruises and cuts, rather than hide them I made excuses which then made people realise looking back.

She literally has doctored photos and redacted meta data. I don't care how much you want to believe her, but how can it be explained with so many people involved the shear lack of real evidence that can't be questioned? That doesn't prove it didn't happen of course, but it does show that her words on the stand are far less than trustworthy just like the comment about the leaks.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Is there any chance Amber could be held liable for all the blatant lies and perjury she has committed in court? Regardless of the verdicts, I hope she would get rightfully punished for all her despicable acts.

 

[Redlambs]

Is there any chance Amber could be held liable for all the blatant lies and perjury she has committed in court? Regardless of the verdicts, I hope she would get rightfully punished for all her despicable acts.

In an ideal world her and her lawyers would face charges for those clearly doctored images. Just like anyone should be if found clearly to be lying.

But obviously that would be another case full of trash "experts" and nonsense and ultimately get nowhere.

 

[Denis79]

It's comedy gold. You missed the best show in decade and I'm even not kidding.

Yup! Considering how little our club has entertained us this was needed

 

[Mart1974]

"Donny Crane"

Son!

 

[moses]

It's comedy gold. You missed the best show in decade and I'm even not kidding.

You see that I get. I don't buy the poor millionaire / public interest angle.

 

[RacingClub]

Because I documented shit for that amount of time and I never had to lie or change images, although as per the norm being the man I wasn't believed originally despite all mine, when it went to people who actually knew what the feck they were doing the case went by incredibly quickly from that point. Even down to things like bruises and cuts, rather than hide them I made excuses which then made people realise looking back

I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that mate.

I think stories like yours are a big reason that public opinion has shifted against Heard. (Moreso than ingrained "Misogyny" or a PR Offensive orchestrated by Depp)

 

[moses]

Having your life ruined by untrue allegations will never be fine no matter how rich the victim is?
Its weird too since lower level abusers are more likely to move on than the likes of Depp due to their actual fame. My sister in law got sexually harassed by a cook at work and he then found work 20 minutes away that was closer to his home!

Absolutely he's worse off than before it happened. But relatively he's still doing OK.. Relatively his life is as far from ruined as is possible. Yes, I know rich people have feelings too but their wealth and privilege and influence are massive safety nets. And I'm not factoring in extra sympathy due to fame. Christ. The poor rich famous people.

The mother of my kids is extremely wealthy, and she assaulted me befure I left her and the kids for years. Trust me, wealth makes a difference.

 

[Denis79]

You should post quoting the people who have actually said that. Otherwise it might look like you are creating an absurd argument that never actually happened, in order to then shoot it down.

Anyone speaking against Heard has been quickly shot down as a misogynist by her two, three neutered defenders. interestingly they all claim to be 'neutral' which is hilarious when reading through some of the pages of this thread.

Many of us came in to this thinking Depp was a proper cnut but the court has shown that she isn't any better, more likely she is worse. Now 2-3 of her defenders can't accept that some of us can't find the slightest of sympathy for Heard. I guess all have their reasons why but for me it's the fact that the crazy lady is a fecking hypocrite. Even if I put aside all her lies this trial and I still can't find sympathy for an abuser crying about being abused, I simply can't.

But the main reason why I follow this isn't because I care how they fare, I don't give a shit how this goes. I follow this for the entertainment.