Amorim: «We are maybe the worst team in Man United history»

Do we know for a fact that he caused drama and damage in the dressing room?
 
You are comparing managers from different eras, Fergie in the 80', Mourinho in the 2000' and Slot nowadays at different clubs and that came in different circumstances. I really do not see any point in this comparison. There are also managers like Villas Boas who came from Portugal and was a disaster, Juande Ramos or Frank de Boer.

I am not judging Amorim because he came from Portugal, I am judging him based on what he showed so far at Manchester United. Our recent history post Fergie showed that we allowed managers enough time to show their true colors. Not once has a manager been given an unwarrantable sack and I'm sure Amorim will get the same treatment. If anything, we allowed managers to underachieve more than it was needed.

When a new manager comes at a club and he is worse than the previous underperformer manager, I start to get a little worried.
I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to argue for here. You say 'I am not judging Amorim because he came from Portugal, I am judging him based on what he showed so far at Manchester United.' and then go on to say 'Not once has a manager been given an unwarrantable sack and I'm sure Amorim will get the same treatment.' which seems to agree that judging him this soon doesn't make sense.

As for the bolded, as I've said a number of times it was intended to illustrate a broader point, and one that you seem to agree with when you say 'You are comparing managers from different eras, Fergie in the 80', Mourinho in the 2000' and Slot nowadays at different clubs and that came in different circumstances' - that coming from a weaker league is no indication of a lack of quality (or otherwise) as a previous poster suggested.
 
Probably Amorim is correct in saying that this is the worst United team in history, but where does that
leave players like Rashford ,for example ,who can’t even get on the substitute’s bench of the worst ever United team ?
 
I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to argue for here. You say 'I am not judging Amorim because he came from Portugal, I am judging him based on what he showed so far at Manchester United.' and then go on to say 'Not once has a manager been given an unwarrantable sack and I'm sure Amorim will get the same treatment.' which seems to agree that judging him this soon doesn't make sense.

As for the bolded, as I've said a number of times it was intended to illustrate a broader point, and one that you seem to agree with when you say 'You are comparing managers from different eras, Fergie in the 80', Mourinho in the 2000' and Slot nowadays at different clubs and that came in different circumstances' - that coming from a weaker league is no indication of a lack of quality (or otherwise) as a previous poster suggested.
I think that a manager gets judged/discussed/commented etc immediately after being appointed at any big club, especially Manchester United. It is a big difference between being judged and getting sacked.
And about the fact that he is coming from a weaker league, it really doesn't matter, I said that already, what matters are the results at the new and bigger job.
 
Who in their right mind can argue that this is the worst Manchester United side in recent history? Apart from some compromised incompetent football men like ETH, Murtough etc.
 
I think that a manager gets judged/discussed/commented etc immediately after being appointed at any big club, especially Manchester United. It is a big difference between being judged and getting sacked.
And about the fact that he is coming from a weaker league, it really doesn't matter, I said that already, what matters are the results at the new and bigger job.
Comments are fine but judgments are premature.
 
This has always been a red flag for me with managers, I still reserve judgement on Amorim. But in general having watched football for 30+ years I've yet to see anything to convince me that playing a 3 at the back formation has any tangible benefit over back 4 formations.

Yeah my post comes across harsher on him than intended, but I think that's the basic end game. The formation and style of play has to work for the personell you have available, and vice versa. Its not a one way street.

AMorim has said himself the system is less important than the players. Players can to a degree adapt to different tactics and roles, but they can't magic themselves faster, or taller, or more athletic. . I don't see how in 6 months time Dalot and Mazrouri will suddenly be fantastically suited to wingback, for example. They'll just be more used to being bad at it. Why not just fit the tactics around a system that doesn't leave your players unable to execute them properly?
 
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Good post. It's roughly the criticism we always throw at Pep, that he can only perform in a very specific setup. Surely a manager must have a modicum of flexibility, the job is first and foremost to make a team work, not buy a new team.

Doesn't necessarily mean a change of formation, there is a lot of tuning and adaption of approach to be done within the same numbers in a lineup

Yeah you're right it doesn't have to mean a formaton change. It's about being realistic with what your players can and can't do and not being so tunnel visioned on one specific set up that this becomes irrelevant. I'm not for or against any formation. Just against trying the same thing over and over which visibly isn't working, and expecting it to suddenly work.

Pep has faced similar criticism but I think slightly unfairly, because whatever system he's chosen has generally worked, and he does change/adapt it. I remember them getting spanked at Anfield 4-1 where Liverpool sussed them out tactically. It didn't happen again after that.

When I try to think of good managers who are extremely stubborn/unflexible in their approach, the best I can come up with is Wenger or Jose. Both of whom got left behind once they weren't the manager setting the trend anymore. Both of whom when they were succesful never had to fit their ideals around the mess Amorim has inherited at United.
 
Being reported in The Guardian that he regrets both the press conference and the post game player meeting where he lost his sh*t. ‘I’m a young guy. I make mistakes and will try to do better.’ He claims that he’s most frustrated at himself.

It’s pretty rare for someone in such a high profile position to publicly acknowledge they were wrong, and so I think this speaks well of him.

Let’s hope some good comes from this.
 
Had it been Guardiola, or Klopp, the press would have been all 'good old Pep' and 'that's the way to deal with these pampered players.'
 
Yeah my post comes across harsher on him than intended, but I think that's the basic end game. The formation and style of play has to work for the personell you have available, and vice versa. Its not a one way street.

Players can to a degree adapt to different tactics and roles, but they can't magic themselves faster, or taller, or more athletic. Force feeding something that doesn't work will just make them give up on it.

Yep, I can certainly appreciate that these players will need time to adapt to 343 and the club will have to sell and sign players for Amorim to make it work.

But the part I have a problem with is why? What benefit does one particular formation have over another?

Especially for a club that has recently made itself virtually skint buying £600m+ worth of players for Ten Hag's 4231. To now launch into yet another another rebuild right away because we're switching formations. If the club belive Amorim is the man fair enough they should back him. But I hope we have a long term plan that goes beyond Amorim built around 343 and we aren't just adopting it because Amroim was the only coach that was available mid-season.
 
Being reported in The Guardian that he regrets both the press conference and the post game player meeting where he lost his sh*t. ‘I’m a young guy. I make mistakes and will try to do better.’ He claims that he’s most frustrated at himself.

It’s pretty rare for someone in such a high profile position to publicly acknowledge they were wrong, and so I think this speaks well of him.

Let’s hope some good comes from this.

If true it does but I do hope the club get him some training in how to deal with the media. We didn't seem to do that with Ten Hag.
 
Had it been Guardiola, or Klopp, the press would have been all 'good old Pep' and 'that's the way to deal with these pampered players.'

You mean multiple league and CL winners Guardiola & Klopp? That's probably why.
 
Being reported in The Guardian that he regrets both the press conference and the post game player meeting where he lost his sh*t. ‘I’m a young guy. I make mistakes and will try to do better.’ He claims that he’s most frustrated at himself.

It’s pretty rare for someone in such a high profile position to publicly acknowledge they were wrong, and so I think this speaks well of him.

Let’s hope some good comes from
I don't think making rash statements after a match AND to the players and then having to retract them speaks very well of him. Not very impressive.
 
I don't think making rash statements after a match AND to the players and then having to retract them speaks very well of him. Not very impressive.
Except there was nothing wrong with his statements in the press conference, nor is the fact he bollocked our players. Apologising doesn’t mean he thinks he said anything he doesn’t mean, he just perhaps doesn’t want to be shown to be against the players
 
If true it does but I do hope the club get him some training in how to deal with the media. We didn't seem to do that with Ten Hag.
Surely, knowing how to handle the media is just basic competence for a manager on this level.
 
Except there was nothing wrong with his statements in the press conference, nor is the fact he bollocked our players. Apologising doesn’t mean he thinks he said anything he doesn’t mean, he just perhaps doesn’t want to be shown to be against the players
Sorry what, he called his own statements "mistakes", apologised for them and stated he'd try to learn from it and not do it again. So obviously he thinks there's something wrong with his statements.
 
Probably Amorim is correct in saying that this is the worst United team in history, but where does that
leave players like Rashford ,for example ,who can’t even get on the substitute’s bench of the worst ever United team ?

8/10 for effort. Wasn't easy to find an angle to bash Rashford from, well done.
 
This thread has made me come in to the United forum more than i probably have in 20 years, because it's very interesting to see the reactions to a batshit insane thing for a football manager of Manchester United to say. He fecked up, got too emotional, and he probably realises now that he did. And you still have supporters saying he did the right thing.

It was an insane thing to say, and that's the actual fact of it. I like what I see of Amorim, and I had followed his Sporting journey enough to know he might be the difference maker for you, but the pressures of managing United are another level, and that's looking like where will be found wanting, which is a shame, because with the right personnel he will probably be the guy to get you back to some competitive level.
 
Sounds to me like he’s been given a massive bollocking from his bosses and now he’s back pedaling.
 
Yep, I can certainly appreciate that these players will need time to adapt to 343 and the club will have to sell and sign players for Amorim to make it work.

But the part I have a problem with is why? What benefit does one particular formation have over another?

Especially for a club that has recently made itself virtually skint buying £600m+ worth of players for Ten Hag's 4231. To now launch into yet another another rebuild right away because we're switching formations. If the club belive Amorim is the man fair enough they should back him. But I hope we have a long term plan that goes beyond Amorim built around 343 and we aren't just adopting it because Amroim was the only coach that was available mid-season.
I doubt we have a plan. Nothing points to it and Ashworth who was supposed to do the planning left in a hurry. The plan is either to be a midtable team (most likely) or buy a lot of players who can play 343, which we can't afford.
 
Sorry what, he called his own statements "mistakes", apologised for them and stated he'd try to learn from it and not do it again. So obviously he thinks there's something wrong with his statements.
Maybe he said that out of pressure, but there wasn’t anything actually wrong with his statements. Do you disagree with anything he said?
 
8/10 for effort. Wasn't easy to find an angle to bash Rashford from, well done.
I wasn’t having a go at Rashford , I used him as a example ,for obvious reasons, there are several players at United who cannot get into “ the worst ever Man Utd team “ .
 
Will fans complain when he now starts giving us the PR responses and makes excuses for these players & board?

This job is lose lose for any manager.
 
I wasn’t having a go at Rashford , I used him as a example ,for obvious reasons, there are several players at United who cannot get into “ the worst ever Man Utd team “ .
He's still one of our top scorers this season despite being left out for weeks now so it's a bit of agenda posting.
 
I wonder if our lack of transfer activity this window is more dilly-dallying by Ineos, similar to the summer with EtH, who are now starting to have doubts on committing transfers to a 343

We’re really in an utter mess.
I’m still hopeful we will make some MAJOR additions in the current transfer window.
 
This has always been a red flag for me with managers, I still reserve judgement on Amorim. But in general having watched football for 30+ years I've yet to see anything to convince me that playing a 3 at the back formation has any tangible benefit over back 4 formations.
We've been so good in a four at the back system it mokes sense to play that way.




Sarcasm in case you missed it.
 
Will fans complain when he now starts giving us the PR responses and makes excuses for these players & board?

This job is lose lose for any manager.

I hope he doesn't go down that route, he's the most honest manager we've had.
 
The 19-year-old started in the Euro finals. Maguire, Fernandes, de Ligt, Martínez, Onana, Garnacho, Dalot, Rashford, Mazraoui, Casemiro, Eriksen, and Ugarte have all achieved significant success at club level and have competed at the highest international stage, reaching semi-finals and finals, and even winning the most prestigious international trophies.

The team is shite because the tactics are shite.
Why were they shite before Amorim when they played four at the back?
 
I would encourage all United fans to go back and re-watch the game at West Ham at the end of October. We lost, it was Ten Hag's last match in charge. We weren't great but it was actually a very decent performance and we were unlucky to lose. Our chance creation was really good, our finishing was poor, and we controlled large sections of the game both in and out of possession.

It wasn't good enough and Ten Hag hadn't been getting results for more than a year so he was sacked fair enough. But we weren't "the worst team in the history of Manchester United" when he left. We're there now because of how much worse we've got since then.

There are good arguments for the fact that this is just the pain we have to go through to become an Amorim team and for people who think like that, I think they have a totally reasonable case. I also really hope they're right. But on the basis that all I'm seeing is a team regressing fast (aside from a few decent, but often quite desperate performances against the big boys) I can't really think that's the case.

If Ten Hag had stayed I think his United team finishes 6th-8th and maybe wins the Europa League. Clearly not good enough for where United want to be. But 3 months later his successor has us looking over our shoulder at the relegation spots and using "worst in history" language. Fair enough, but we weren't the worst in history when you arrived, Ruben. You've made us that.

Genuinely agree, I think Eth would have finished lower in the league but there's no consistency with Amorim and he's still making mistakes with team selection hence he's heavily using substitutes early on during games.

He's giving himself too much of a heavy load to carry, he's got until 2027 meaning almost the majority of signings need to hit the ground running for the club to close a top 6 position within at least 12 months time from the summer window.

Amorim can mention pain and difficulty but his countenance gives it away, that even he wasn't anticipating results / performances to be as bad as they are.
 
For some strange reason, ETH wanted to play basketball. Whenever He played to the team's strengths we looked better, not world beater but better than this.
Whats "this"? Because we looked decent against Arsenal and Liverpool, just as we occasionally looked decent when Ten Hag was manager

It's almost as if the manager is irrelevant
 
Whats "this"? Because we looked decent against Arsenal and Liverpool, just as we occasionally looked decent when Ten Hag was manager

It's almost as if the manager is irrelevant
The team performs better when the managers abandon their rigid insistence on implementing a system and playing style that does not suit the players—for example, the games against Brighton at home and away last season. The players looked much better in the away game when Erik ten Hag shifted away from his insistence on sticking to a style that wasn’t working.