An Impossible Job

[Grinner]

I decided to give this another view not having seen it since it was broadcast and after seeing Squire's Guardian cartoon yesterday.

It's a really fascinating insight into the events of a shitty time in England footy team history and you really get to see just how rubbish our preparations were for big games. The Poland match in particular looks like fecking amateur hour. At times you feel sorry for GT and the injuries but then you see Carlton Palmer, Andy Sinton and Earl Barrett knocking around the squad and that sympathy evaporates. It's also interesting seeing how the 96 team comes out of the ashes of this disaster.

The Ronald Koeman injustice still grates after all these years though.

Also worth watching this afer to see El Tel chomping at the bit to get into the job and sort it out.

 

[RUCK4444]

Ah that great 96' team that rose from the ashes. More unwarranted love for a team that didn't win anything, I really don't get it.

Sorry to pick out just that line but the love in for England 96' team confuses me.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Sorry to pick out just that line but the love in for England 96' team confuses me.

1990 was a high. 1992/1994 was an abject disaster. Seeing Denmark win the next major title after we looked among the best teams at the prior World Cup was a gut punch. As was the 1994 non qualification.

To come into 1996 with a talented team, on home soil, during a good period for the country by most scales.... it felt so good.

1996-1998. Euros, Le Tournoi, WC98 was easily the best 3 year period England have had in the modern era.

 

[horsechoker]

1990 was a high. 1992/1994 was an abject disaster. Seeing Denmark win the next major title after we looked among the best teams at the prior World Cup was a gut punch. As was the 1994 non qualification.

To come into 1996 with a talented team, on home soil, during a good period for the country by most scales.... it felt so good.

1996-1998. Euros, Le Tournoi, WC98 was easily the best 3 year period England have had in the modern era.

I'd argue we're in our best period right now since 2018 with reaching 4th place in the world cup (our best finish since 1990). We have a lot of talented young players who play an attractive style of football. The Euros (partially) in England could have been realisation of this talent but there's always next year.

 

[Grinner]

It's interesting to look at Graham Taylor's record at Villa before his appointment to England. He finished 2nd behind champions Liverpool having beaten Spurs, Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton and Chelsea at home with what isn't exactly a dazzling team on paper. Clearly he was a bit of a yes man with no real baggage so appealed to the FA selectors.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I'd argue we're in our best period right now since 2018 with reaching 4th place in the world cup (our best finish since 1990). We have a lot of talented young players who play an attractive style of football. The Euros (partially) in England could have been realisation of this talent but there's always next year.

.

96 through 98 saw us win competitive matches against Holland, Spain, Italy twice, France. All good sides. A narrow loss to Brazil, with two tournament exits on penalties.

All the current side has managed of note is a win against Spain and Croatia.

Both periods saw some pretty silly losses, for what it’s worth. I’m not suggesting the 1996-1998 side was world class.

 

[Gio]

I'd argue we're in our best period right now since 2018 with reaching 4th place in the world cup (our best finish since 1990). We have a lot of talented young players who play an attractive style of football. The Euros (partially) in England could have been realisation of this talent but there's always next year.

I don't think the current side has overtaken the Euro '96 one. Reaching the semi-finals owed much to a relatively easier run of opponents, compared to the top quality opposition England met in 1996 (Holland, Spain, Germany). Even in 1998 they would have had to defeat Argentina and Holland before reaching a semi-final date with Brazil when all of those nations were packed with quality.

I agree though that this team shows plenty of promise for the next couple of tournaments.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Had no idea Pallister was such a fixture in that England team.

Feel sorry for GT, horrific, overrated players and he was treated appallingly by the press.

96 team were half and lived purely off an effing Lightning Seeds song.

 

[simonhch]

Taylor has been treated appalling by the press. He had a bad run, yes, but I will always remember what he did with Watford. He took them from the Fourth Division to the First in 5 years, came second in the First division in his 6th season, and reached the third round of the UEFA CUP and FA Cup final in his seventh. To take a club from the bottom professional tier to the top, and come second in 6 years in fecking unbelievable. In hindsight, his managerial style was clearly better suited to making a collection of no-mark players perform way above their collective reputations/abilities, rather than manage established First Division and International stars.

 

[Gio]

Taylor’s brand of football was only going to take England so far. Well executed under solid drilled sides like Olsen’s Norway or Charlton’s Ireland it was effective in grinding through qualification groups. But it was never going to cut the mustard in the business end of major tournaments. And it wasn’t that well executed with some shoddy selections. Waddle was ripping it up for the best team in Europe in Marseille, but couldn’t get a game while Andy Sinton and Carlton Palmer did. Hateley was running over the top of domestic and European opposition for Rangers, yet was ignored for the likes of Geoff Thomas and Alan Smith. And he went to Euro ‘92 without a right back in the 23-man squad, crowbarring in the centre half Keith Curle instead. It was just a mess, but he was unlucky too. He fell between two good generations and suffered injuries to his best defender and midfielder in Walker and Gascoigne, while Rob Jones was sorely missed at right back. Yet he should still have qualified for the World Cup as he was robbed against the Dutch and was shamefully treated by the tabloids. So despite his limitations at that level, you felt for the guy.

 

[fps]

Some of this is jawdropping. The giving of odds jokingly as each player steps up to practise penalties in an absurd laddy jokey gathering.... The level of discussion/tactics/organisation is from a different era.

 

[FootballHQ]

Taylor’s brand of football was only going to take England so far. Well executed under solid drilled sides like Olsen’s Norway or Charlton’s Ireland it was effective in grinding through qualification groups. But it was never going to cut the mustard in the business end of major tournaments. And it wasn’t that well executed with some shoddy selections. Waddle was ripping it up for the best team in Europe in Marseille, but couldn’t get a game while Andy Sinton and Carlton Palmer did. Hateley was running over the top of domestic and European opposition for Rangers, yet was ignored for the likes of Geoff Thomas and Alan Smith. And he went to Euro ‘92 without a right back in the 23-man squad, crowbarring in the centre half Keith Curle instead. It was just a mess, but he was unlucky too. He fell between two good generations and suffered injuries to his best defender and midfielder in Walker and Gascoigne, while Rob Jones was sorely missed at right back. Yet he should still have qualified for the World Cup as he was robbed against the Dutch and was shamefully treated by the tabloids. So despite his limitations at that level, you felt for the guy.

I always think Taylor's reign was similar to Hodgson's exactly 20 years later. Took over between two generations (Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney all just getting too old) and the new generation getting loads of injuries. Think Graham had Shearer and Gazza out for chunks of his reign.

That and both having a conservative percentage style that got good success at majority of clubs they both managed yet demands for expressive style of play which neither were comfortable with and so you got the poor tournament results and unconvincing style.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Having watched An Impossible Job for the first time fairly recently a few things stood out.

- Taylor did seem like an incredibly nice bloke.
- Was Phil Neal's remit just to agree with and repeat whatever Taylor said? A big shame especially considering he was an such an elite player who enjoyed such an illustrious and trophy laden career. The clip with Neal taking that further and actually mimicking Taylor's actions really cracked me up.
- His meeting with prison inmates, with discussions about the structure of English football, i.e. too many games and kids playing on full-size pitches instead of smaller ones like in other European countries.
- The bust up with the journalist Rob Shepherd was pretty entertaining.

 

[DixieDean]

I don't think the current side has overtaken the Euro '96 one. Reaching the semi-finals owed much to a relatively easier run of opponents, compared to the top quality opposition England met in 1996 (Holland, Spain, Germany). Even in 1998 they would have had to defeat Argentina and Holland before reaching a semi-final date with Brazil when all of those nations were packed with quality.

I agree though that this team shows plenty of promise for the next couple of tournaments.

2018 had to play one more game to get to the semis.

And the '96 side were dam lucky against Spain. They had a perfectly good goal ruled out. If that's given, it's just another bang average England tournament.

They only played well twice and lost one of those games!

 

[Gio]

2018 had to play one more game to get to the semis.

And the '96 side were dam lucky against Spain. They had a perfectly good goal ruled out. If that's given, it's just another bang average England tournament.

They only played well twice and lost one of those games!

Well I don't think the number of games matters as it reflects how many teams are in the tournament - and the more teams, the more cannon fodder in the competition. Basically I rate pumping Holland 4-1, and draws with Spain and Germany higher than England's single draw with Colombia, as the wins over Tunisia, Panama and Sweden don't mean a lot in comparision.

But yes Spain were robbed - it was two good goals wrongly ruled out!

 

[Grinner]

Having watched An Impossible Job for the first time fairly recently a few things stood out.

- Taylor did seem like an incredibly nice bloke.
- Was Phil Neal's remit just to agree with and repeat whatever Taylor said? A big shame especially considering he was an such an elite player who enjoyed such an illustrious and trophy laden career. The clip with Neal taking that further and actually mimicking Taylor's actions really cracked me up.
- His meeting with prison inmates, with discussions about the structure of English football, i.e. too many games and kids playing on full-size pitches instead of smaller ones like in other European countries.
- The bust up with the journalist Rob Shepherd was pretty entertaining.

Big Lawrie Mac too...what did he bring to the table exactly?

 

[DixieDean]

Well I don't think the number of games matters as it reflects how many teams are in the tournament - and the more teams, the more cannon fodder in the competition. Basically I rate pumping Holland 4-1, and draws with Spain and Germany higher than England's single draw with Colombia, as the wins over Tunisia, Panama and Sweden don't mean a lot in comparision.

But yes Spain were robbed - it was two good goals wrongly ruled out!

To add to this, something I had forgotten about until recently is in the Semi-final V Germany, Germany had a good headed goal ruled out in extra time for no reason at all.

 

[Chipper]

A bit of a random diversion, not really worth a thread of it's own, I see Alan Smith got a mention. He was good, no? 2 time division one top scorer. He was somewhat one dimensional from memory and kind of epitomised George Graham's 1-0 to the Arsenal as it was him who often got the "1" but I remember him being effective there.

Now he never really did it for England based off his stats but what I've somewhat become fascinated by lately is that he and Lineker were together at Leicester. For their stature at the time that was some quality, anyone remember what they were like together there?

 

[Grinner]

A bit of a random diversion, not really worth a thread of it's own, I see Alan Smith got a mention. He was good, no? 2 time division one top scorer. He was somewhat one dimensional from memory and kind of epitomised George Graham's 1-0 to the Arsenal as it was him who often got the "1" but I remember him being effective there.

Now he never really did it for England based off his stats but what I've somewhat become fascinated by lately is that he and Lineker were together at Leicester. For their stature at the time that was some quality, anyone remember what they were like together there?

Smith had more to his game than being a target man but I wouldn't say he was ever international quality.

 

[FootballHQ]

He was huge in the 2-0 at Anfield. Scored the first with far post flicked header than brilliant assist for Michael Thomas.

Also scored that rarest of things, a winning goal for Arsenal in a european final. Incredible to think an Arsenal team that started likes of Ian Selley and Steve Morrow actually won v that Parma side

Underrated anyway.