It's not particlarly good for sure, but I feel it's important to understand that Serie A was literally rigged or 'fixed' during that time, which makes it quite hard to judge. He also got Parma into 2nd place in Serie A once, hardly the signs of a 'bad' league manager like some weirdos on here have been claiming for years
Ancelotti to make history this season?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Well, both of the big sides he's managed have actually been found guilty of match fixing in Calciopoli scandal, so it should have helped him if anything.
The stick used to beat Ancelotti with is his Juventus stint, he's managed to lose Serie A title to none other than Lazio after having 5 or 6 points lead with four rounds to go.
Zagallo won one World Cup as player, one as manager and other as assistant manager.
Great shout out, his accumulation of 4 world cup titles is legendary, definitely needs to be mentioned more.
Bayern tried Ancelotti after Pep. It was not pretty.
Yeah, that’s why I’ve said it
He's not bad.... but he's still criminally underachieved in the league. He just seems to be right place right time with a good set of players..... to the point that what's happened since he's left makes me think his best work was at Everton 
3 of these 5 titles were glorified freebies, and another gifted to him via Rooney injury.
3 of these 5 titles were glorified freebies, and another gifted to him via Rooney injury.
Yeah, that's how it works
Well, how does it work?Yeah, that's how it works
Should we discredit Lippi's and Capello's achievements in that era?
I am one of those who dont rate Ancelotti that high
He is more of a player manager than a tactics coach and as we found out at Bayern he isnt too much into tactical training
I have seen his team do many epic collapses too
1.2004 CL 4-1 lead vs Deportivo lose 4-0 the return leg
2. 2005 CL semi. 2-0 lead vs PSV, trails 2-0 in return leg until late goals by Ambrosini and Cocu to lose 3-1 on move to final on away goals aggregates and then the epic choke of all time
3. 2005 CL final 3-0 at half time 3-3 by 57mins
4. The latest Chelsea game led 3-1 away, trailed 3-0 at home(4-0) but for Alonso handball
His style works better for knockout than for league marathons though
He is more of a player manager than a tactics coach and as we found out at Bayern he isnt too much into tactical training
I have seen his team do many epic collapses too
1.2004 CL 4-1 lead vs Deportivo lose 4-0 the return leg
2. 2005 CL semi. 2-0 lead vs PSV, trails 2-0 in return leg until late goals by Ambrosini and Cocu to lose 3-1 on move to final on away goals aggregates and then the epic choke of all time
3. 2005 CL final 3-0 at half time 3-3 by 57mins
4. The latest Chelsea game led 3-1 away, trailed 3-0 at home(4-0) but for Alonso handball
His style works better for knockout than for league marathons though
Oh yeah absolutely the Juventus stint is a major black mark, obviously. Even with how good that Lazio side was, they shouldn’t have thrown it away how they did, particularly under Moggi’s stewardship, so to speak. While Milan were also indicted in calciopoli it’s impossible to put them on the same level as Juve in my opinion, and the punishments handed out suggest the same.
Like I said, it's literally quite hard to judge given the things that were going on. A clearly very corrupt period in Italian football coincided with Ancelotti's biggest 'underachievements' in terms of league results. I've always found it a strange stick to beat him with.
As for Capello, Juve were stripped of their league titles under him. Which doesn't have to mean he didn't coach them well.
Same with Lippi. The Juve 1996 side that beat Ajax in the CL final were doped up to the max. They loved their EPO. Doesn't mean Lippi didn't coach them well, doesn't mean they weren't a great team with fantastic players. It does mean they were disgusting pieces of shit, they were simply cheaters who should be stripped of their title.
They wouldn't have except the Lazio ultras were both on the warpath and in Rome and our politicians shat themselves so hard they basically ordered the FA to give lazio "equal treatment" during the run in. Wink wink. That season ended with juventus losing the title in a game of waterpolo
Following season wasn't quite as bad but again they didn't have the usual "edge"
La Liga 99,99% in the bag already, massive advantage in UCL as City and Liverpool probably still battling to the last league match.
Haha didn't know that, but I could feel it at that time.
Final gameday a deluge fell on Perugia and the pitch was basically a pool. Impossible to play football. Game delayed, lazio win theirs, if juventus doesn't win they're champions, pitch is, again, quite literally a pool. Lazio ultras parade around rome with open caskets. 30 minutes later the pitch in Perugia is still a pool, but the FA orders the game to go through anyways. Juventus lose 1-0, Lazio win the league. Order to the FA came from the GovernmentHaha didn't know that, but I could feel it at that time.
Now state his achievements.
3 CL titles
5 league titles
His name isn’t English
In the short term i'd say the opposite, his relaxed nature and good man management combined with the muscle memory of the previous management hit a perfect sweetspot. His problems come around season 2 when the muscle memory fades and players want to be properly stimulated again, it's why he hasn't lasted long anywhere since Milan.
He joked that clubs hire him for his laid back nature then fire him for the same reason but it's actually true. Sometimes a squad really need his type of management but while successful it has a short shelf life.
You might not like him, but he's one of the greatest of all time, and a few isolated results don't change that. You can pick holes in any manager's resume.
Conveniently forgetting that he will be the first and only manager to ever win the league in the big 5. That is an astonishing achievement, likely to never be repeated unless Guardiola fancies a go at PSG and then Serie A.
Maybe his tactical and training workrate didn't live up to the high teutonic standards of Bayern fans, but there is more to managing that. Being a leader of men, managing a star studded dressing room, and getting players to perform when it counts. That's also the mark of a top manager.
The good news for Ancelotti is that he is going to get three super players next season for his squad so a big part of the motivation and competitivity between his footballers will be ensured without much effort from his part. Sharing the playing time and keeping everyone happy is going to be a huge problem though.
To put in even more perspective the only other managers to have won in 4 countries including at least 1 of the big 5 leagues are
Jose (England, Spain, Italy and Portugal)
Happel (Holland, Belgium, Germany and Austria)
Ivic (Holland, Portugal, Belgium and France)
Beyond Jose and Pep are there any other mangers who have won in even 3 of the top 5 leagues?
Weird to include games where he qualified?
That parma side had some of the best talent italy has ever produced, also he definitely isn't as great league wise as he is as a knockout manager.
The doping debacle is definitely one of the more interesting parts of that era, ajax players swear on their lives that the juve players were doped to the max , but nothing really came out of it.
It also bears to mention that olympique de Marseille was stripped of their league achievements but not the European one which i always found amusing.
I feel at this point you just gotta already assume that everyone is engaging in some shady shit whether it be doping or paying of the officials just look at how many decisions barca and real got to their favor .
Anyway a bit of a digression from the point of the thread.
You can only win where you have competed. Why did Ferguson not win in Spain Italy Germany?
There is a reason he has 5 league titles in 17 seasons. The CL is a knockout competition and many things go into winning it including huge amount of luck that is why Di Matteo with his CL title has been jobless for a while now
Its the show me your medals argument in the dressing room. Ancelotti has done it all as a player and a manager, shame he never rocked up at Old Trafford. Massively tactically underated.
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Very impressive feat. Shame he never got to manage Utd. In hindsight he was probably the right manager post fergie instead of moyes.
Where he stands when we talk about greatest managers ever?
Definitely top 8 for me. I think probably in that 4-8 region.
Incredible achievement.
He is a great manager.
Who cares if Bayern didn’t like his tactics or training?
He still knows best how to beat them. If I am not mistaken he has knocked them out 3 times in the CL including a couple of thrashings. He has probably knocked them out more often than any other manager in (recent) history.
Who cares if Bayern didn’t like his tactics or training?
He still knows best how to beat them. If I am not mistaken he has knocked them out 3 times in the CL including a couple of thrashings. He has probably knocked them out more often than any other manager in (recent) history.
Top man
Nice post for your 7777th post.
Wow, didn’t realise. What a numberNice post for your 7777th post.
Glad it has been attributed to Ancelotti.
Can't put a number on it as there's so many things to consider (era? club v international? revolutionary style or not? etc.) and so many great managers. He's far from finished obviously so could achieve a lot more.
The only thing against him is maybe the fact that he doesn't have that many total league titles (it's just the one in most countries he's managed in).
In his favour is this new record of winning a title in all five top leagues and also the fact that he jointly holds the record for CL/European Cup wins with Zidane and Paisley)
This picture goes hard.Top man