[Perrick Dubois]

Pacist.

 

[Raw]

Nothing wrong with the comment but what is the black dot for..

Supposed to be a red dot emoji, but when you view it on a computer all emoji's are black and white. He tweeted the same thing here:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Supposed to be a red dot emoji, but when you view it on a computer all emoji's are black and white. He tweeted the same thing here:

Right, thanks.

 

[izec]

Someone said he was warming up for 20 minutes but didnt come on, then was angry? Whats that about?

 

[Fergus' son]

Waste of space.

 

[Devil may care]

Poor in the first half but better in the second, looks like he's injured though so that'll be Rooney in on Saturday.

 

[Lay]

Looked terrible in that first half.

 

[NoPace]

Closed down Antonio and created the turnover that led directly to the Rashford goal.

 

[Lash]

Touch was a bit off, but kept the ball moving quickly, at least. Hopefully was just an impact injury.

 

[Witchking]

He needs games to be back to his best and knowing LVG he will never get that. Sad. I think he will leave at the end of this season. He is wasting his career.

 

[Jammydodger7]

He has been useless whenever hes played lately!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

He has been useless whenever hes played lately!

I think you will find he has been injured lately. He wasn't useless against Arsenal and has spent most of the time since injured. He needs game time. That formation last night worked, but you can guarantee that LvG will change it to make sure our friend Rooney can get ready for the Euros.

 

[dichinero]

Was rusty but improved as the game wore on!

 

[kr0nix]

Love him. He's an intelligent player, well suited to a high pressing/quick transitioning team. Too bad LVG doesn't realise this.

 

[Dobbs]

The team doesn't suit him or at least his two midfield partners don't. However the same could be said of Mata. The difference is that Mata still makes sure the basics of his game are on point. Herrera won't ever be first choice here until he gets consistency in his passing game.

 

[Cassidy]

The team doesn't suit him or at least his two midfield partners don't. However the same could be said of Mata. The difference is that Mata still makes sure the basics of his game are on point. Herrera won't ever be first choice here until he gets consistency in his passing game.

No he doesn't

 

[RedorDead21]

Love him. He's an intelligent player, well suited to a high pressing/quick transitioning team. Too bad LVG doesn't realise this.

Sounds like the Kagawa fan boyz spiel....Herrera has had chances and generally not looked great! Hence he's not an auto starter. Too bad Herrera doesn't realize if he shines when he gets a chance more chances will come.

 

[Cassidy]

Sounds like the Kagawa fan boyz spiel....Herrera has had chances and generally not looked great! Hence he's not an auto starter. Too bad Herrera doesn't realize if he shines when he gets a chance more chances will come.

Was one of our better CMs lasts season? I don't think hes been great this season, but so say hes had his chances and not look great is not true

 

[prath92]

Was one of our better CMs lasts season? I don't think hes been great this season, but so say hes had his chances and not look great is not true

So was Fellaini. Last season is last season.

 

[Dobbs]

No he doesn't

You telling Mata's basic passing and touch isn't at least consistent?

Herrera's on the other hand isn't good enough often enough. Yesterday there were lots of little passes that reached a team mate but we're over/under hit or a foot off the floor.

 

[clarkydaz]

We slate Rooney for giving the ball away cheaply so only fair others get it. He's been average at best I'm afraid this year, and I loved how he was looking last year. Don't know what LVG has done to him but Ander doesn't know who or what he is anymore

 

[Eckers99]

I really like his attitude and want him to succeed but either my memory of him being a potentially top player is totally false or he's really, badly out of form. He was very poor yesterday. I think I'm leaning towards 'not good enough' if I'm being honest. He's not good enough with or without the ball. He's energetic but limited.

 

[Dobbs]

I really like his attitude and want him to succeed but either my memory of him being a potentially top player is totally false or he's really, badly out of form. He was very poor yesterday. I think I'm leaning towards 'not good enough' if I'm being honest. He's not good enough with or without the ball. He's energetic but limited.

I'm starting to have doubts. I've always liked his attitude but lately I'm starting to think he's just talking the talk. A disconnect between what he says (which is perfect) and what he does on the pitch.

 

[Cassidy]

You telling Mata's basic passing and touch isn't at least consistent?

Herrera's on the other hand isn't good enough often enough. Yesterday there were lots of little passes that reached a team mate but we're over/under hit or a foot off the floor.

I'm saying they both have games where their touch and passing is off, Herrera granted more often. However there have been a lot of games where Mata is easily dispossessed for fun.

 

[Dobbs]

I'm saying they both have games where their touch and passing is off, Herrera granted more often. However there have been a lot of games where Mata is easily dispossessed for fun.

You've highlighted Mata's weakness as a player. Just like Smallings is his passing, Martial's is his ball striking. That's not what we're discussing

I'm talking about a players bottom level. You know how they used to say even on a bad day Scholes was a 7. Well to a lesser extent it's the same with Mata. Having a bad game or played out of position his technique is still decent. It's rare you come away thinking Mata was wasteful today or his touch was poor.

How many times have we watched Herrera be really poor at the basics of the game? Plenty of occasions come to mind.

 

[Cassidy]

You've highlighted Mata's weakness as a player. Just like Smallings is his passing, Martial's is his ball striking. That's not what we're discussing

I'm talking about a players bottom level. You know how they used to say even on a bad day Scholes was a 7. Well to a lesser extent it's the same with Mata. Having a bad game or played out of position his technique is still decent. It's rare you come away thinking Mata was wasteful today or his touch was poor.

How many times have we watched Herrera be really poor at the basics of the game? Plenty of occasions come to mind.

No because I am talking about him being easily dispossessed due taking a poor first touch, something which is basic. Forget his limitations as a player, he has also had quite a few poor games where even the basic things have been off.

 

[Eckers99]

I'm starting to have doubts. I've always liked his attitude but lately I'm starting to think he's just talking the talk. A disconnect between what he says (which is perfect) and what he does on the pitch.

Definitely. He seems to really get the club - as does Mata. Both of them conduct themselves well and seem like good professionals but neither of them has done enough to demand a spot in the team and both create problems when they play. I think we should be looking to replace the pair this summer.

 

[Dobbs]

No because I am talking about him being easily dispossessed due taking a poor first touch, something which is basic. Forget his limitations as a player, he has also had quite a few poor games where even the basic things have been off.

Don't think I've ever seen anyone accuse Mata of having a poor first touch. It's consistently the best at the club.

He gets dispossessed because he's tiny and slow. Neither of which he can do much about.

 

[berbatrick]

The patience LvG shows for some players (Rooney, Fellaini, Mata) is matched only by how quickly he jettisons others, like Herrera. When he's been given a run of games, he's been good. And it's no coincidence the team plays better with him around. His cameo vs Everton was great and we moved the ball around midfield with zip and purpose -- and he never featured vs Spurs despite that game being suited to a high-tempo player like him, not Mata.

 

[Spock]

Herrera was not particularly impressive yesterday, but can you blame him? He gets no run of games and has to play with Fellaini, Lingard et al who simply aren't United quality.

When he gets his run he's very good, but it's a very fair question to ask just what we want from him as a regular starter that he can actually deliver. The answer may not work in his favor.

 

[prath92]

Herrera was not particularly impressive yesterday, but can you blame him? He gets no run of games and has to play with Fellaini, Lingard et al who simply aren't United quality.

When he gets his run he's very good, but it's a very fair question to ask just what we want from him as a regular starter that he can actually deliver. The answer may not work in his favor.

This is ridiculous now. Both lingard and Fellaini were much better than him last night but Herrera isn't playing well because he was playing with lingard and Fellaini?

 

[limerickcitykid]

The patience LvG shows for some players (Rooney, Fellaini, Mata) is matched only by how quickly he jettisons others, like Herrera. When he's been given a run of games, he's been good. And it's no coincidence the team plays better with him around. His cameo vs Everton was great and we moved the ball around midfield with zip and purpose -- and he never featured vs Spurs despite that game being suited to a high-tempo player like him, not Mata.

That just simply isn't true though. How is he patient with Fellaini but jettisons Ander when he plays Ander more? He also had a spell of about 7 starts in a row in January and it consisted of some of his worst performances in his time here. So this needs a run of games and is good when he does doesn't wash either. He has been poor this season and believe it or not, it isn't Fellaini's fault.

 

[Boycott]

This is ridiculous now. Both lingard and Fellaini were much better than him last night but Herrera isn't playing well because he was playing with lingard and Fellaini?

Spot on.

 

[Dobbs]

This is ridiculous now. Both lingard and Fellaini were much better than him last night but Herrera isn't playing well because he was playing with lingard and Fellaini?

Good post.

 

[Spock]

This is ridiculous now. Both lingard and Fellaini were much better than him last night but Herrera isn't playing well because he was playing with lingard and Fellaini?

Perhaps you should try reading the post you quote! I wrote:

Herrera was not particularly impressive yesterday, but can you blame him? He gets no run of games and has to play with Fellaini, Lingard et al who simply aren't United quality. ​

"He gets no run of games..." which means when he does come on, finally, it'll take a game or two hit top gear. Like most players.

As for Fellaini and Lingard, let's not get carried away.

Fellaini did indeed have a good game by his standards but he's hardly the kind of true midfielder a player like Herrera can link up with to create scoring chances. Fellani is a box-crashing attacking midfielder, a poor man's Andy Carroll. Even his goal, a match-winner, was hardly a thing of beauty. And take a close look at his defending on the West Ham goal...atrocious.

As for Lingard, I agree he put in a nice performance yesterday but Lingard is a level or two below Herrera.

 

[Dobbs]

Perhaps you should try reading the post you quote! I wrote:

Herrera was not particularly impressive yesterday, but can you blame him? He gets no run of games and has to play with Fellaini, Lingard et al who simply aren't United quality. ​

"He gets no run of games..." which means when he does come on, finally, it'll take a game or two hit top gear. Like most players.

As for Fellaini and Lingard, let's not get carried away.

Fellaini did indeed have a good game by his standards but he's hardly the kind of true midfielder a player like Herrera can link up with to create scoring chances. Fellani is a box-crashing attacking midfielder, a poor man's Andy Carroll. Even his goal, a match-winner, was hardly a thing of beauty. And take a close look at his defending on the West Ham goal...atrocious.

As for Lingard, I agree he put in a nice performance yesterday but Lingard is a level or two below Herrera.

You realise that with these varying criteria Herrera can't ever be blamed for his own performances. First of all it's down to not having a consistent run. When he does get that run of games it's then the fault of players like Fellaini and Lingard. He can't go wrong.

 

[Spock]

You realise that with these varying criteria Herrera can't ever be blamed for his own performances. First of all it's down to not having a consistent run. When he does get that run of games it's then the fault of players like Fellaini and Lingard. He can't go wrong.

But I did blame Herrera for his poor performance, the explanation being that gets few minutes under LVG and was simply out of sorts in that first half. Maybe he has a bad attitude or maybe he's always injured and thus gets no minutes. But when you get no minutes and are suddenly brought on the pitch you can't expect top gear instantly.

We've seen Herrera in top gear after a 3-4 match run and he's vastly superior to Fellaini and Lingard. So I wouldn't "blame" Fellaini and Lingard for the poor play of Herrera in the first half but you can't expect Herrera to hit top gear with players who have poor pace, ability and vision (Fellaini) or limited experience and ability (Lingard).

One could, presumably, argue that if you put Messi next to Fellaini and Lingard that Messi would still be Messi. Maybe, but I'm not so sure about. If Messi had no played a full 90+ for months and only got a 10 minute cameo in his last two appearances AND he had to play with Fellaini and Lingard I'm pretty sure Messi wouldn't be peak Messi. He'd be maybe 60% of peak Messi.

Don't worry, I'm not suggesting that Herrera is the equal of Messi. I'm only making the point to say that if you put even Messi under the same circumstances Herrera was put in yesterday Messi wouldn't be "Messi". Herrera was poor yesterday, at least in the first half, and much of that can be explained by the total absence of match fitness, technically as well as physically. When you compound that with having Herrera play with Fellaini and Lingard you're just not going to get a world class performance from him. Fellaini and Lingard had fight in them yesterday didn't show any real class -- nor did Herrera -- but no caftards here make the case that Fellaini and Lingard are anywhere near the class of Herrera.

But Fellaini scored the match-winner. That is a verifiable fact.

 

[Dobbs]

But I did blame Herrera for his poor performance, the explanation being that gets few minutes under LVG and was simply out of sorts in that first half. Maybe he has a bad attitude or maybe he's always injured and thus gets no minutes. But when you get no minutes and are suddenly brought on the pitch you can't expect top gear instantly.

We've seen Herrera in top gear after a 3-4 match run and he's vastly superior to Fellaini and Lingard. So I wouldn't "blame" Fellaini and Lingard for the poor play of Herrera in the first half but you can't expect Herrera to hit top gear with players who have poor pace, ability and vision (Fellaini) or limited experience and ability (Lingard).

One could, presumably, argue that if you put Messi next to Fellaini and Lingard that Messi would still be Messi. Maybe, but I'm not so sure about. If Messi had no played a full 90+ for months and only got a 10 minute cameo in his last two appearances AND he had to play with Fellaini and Lingard I'm pretty sure Messi wouldn't be peak Messi. He'd be maybe 60% of peak Messi.

Don't worry, I'm not suggesting that Herrera is the equal of Messi. I'm only making the point to say that if you put even Messi under the same circumstances Herrera was put in yesterday Messi wouldn't be "Messi". Herrera was poor yesterday, at least in the first half, and much of that can be explained by the total absence of match fitness, technically as well as physically. When you compound that with having Herrera play with Fellaini and Lingard you're just not going to get a world class performance from him. Fellaini and Lingard had fight in them yesterday didn't show any real class -- nor did Herrera -- but no caftards here make the case that Fellaini and Lingard are anywhere near the class of Herrera.

But Fellaini scored the match-winner. That is a verifiable fact.

Yeah I still don't see where you blame Herrera for his own performance levels. You've just reiterated lack of game time and poor team mates.

 

[arthurka]

We play better when Herrera plays end off..

 

[Spock]

Yeah I still don't see where you blame Herrera for his own performance levels. You've just reiterated lack of game time and poor team mates.

Lack of game time explains, at least partly, his poor performance in the first half. What's there not to get?

An alternative explanation is that Herrera is a shit footballer and that his performance yesterday in the first half is what one would expect. I happen to disagree with that view but that's another way of explaining Herrera's performance yesterday.

The reason I've reiterated the "lack of game time" thesis is that the previous post suggested that I put it all on Fellaini and Lingard, which is not the case. I only mentioned having to play with Fellaini and Lingard IN ADDITION to Herrera's lack of game time.

Any footballer, either a god like Messi or a solid professional like Herrera, needs to play to maintain form. You take players off the pitch, for whatever reason, for a month or so and they're going to need at least a half or maybe 1 or 2 games to regain form.