Yeh they concede a lot and I think they drew a lot of score draws. That Bournemouth defence was better than what he has at Liverpool too.
Andoni Iraola | Liverpool manager
- Thread starter JB08
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Actually, they were 4th best team in CS stat. 11 clean sheets in last season.
The lining up of these two posts, one after the other is quite funny, not going to lie.
It's even funnier because I can guarantee you someone at the club advised they pick a team they thought they could beat easily because it's the new manager's first game at Anfield.The lining up of these two posts, one after the other is quite funny, not going to lie.
2-0 up and all and it looked like plain sailing. It could've been a straight forward win if not for that second half.
But they bring on a load of kids in the second half of friendlies, like many teams, because the results literally don't matter
Mate I’ll see you in the mud next month
There was this weird stat I remember from mid season when Bournemouth had been simultaneously involved in the maximum goals in matches as well as maximum 0-0s.
Liverpool have really fumbled their rebuild. This guy is going to struggle big time unless they support him fully.
Apparently Wirtz had a really good game. Maybe he'll have a better second season
Tbh Iraola's not the problem. Any manager would struggle with that squad. I assume they'll stick with him even if they miss out on CL given it's the fault of others at the club really
Is this going to be another manager that’s being found out after moving to a big club? A lot of our fans wanted him but to be honest I can’t see him finishing above Carrick.
I don't think so. I mean, i would love that they fail but their team on paper is still very, very good. They have lack of quality wingers but if they sign Barcola, that attack with Isak and Barcola would be quality.
I don't think that Iraola is high quality manager, though. His Bournemouth was lethal on counter attacks but with Liverpool you can't play like that.
Im not sure. Their back four basically needs a revamp, they need a proper 6, and they need a winger. Isak coming back fully fit from that horror injury is also a TBC.
They have a lot holes in their squad for me.
They have question marks all over really. Look at the important players they've lost or players that have declined since they won the league under Slot, it's crazy how much can change in a year.
Alison is horribly injury prone for a keeper. VVD declined massively last season and can only get worse at his age. Lost Konate, don't really have a set partner for VVD. Bradley injured at RB and Frimpong didn't really look like a PL full back last season. Ekitike long term injury. They never really replaced Diaz's quality on the left side last year. Salah declined and then left. They're now trying to stockpile left wingers and not really addressing the right wing problem.
Then they're hoping the signings they made last summer come good in 2nd season after a disappointing debut season. Kerkez mixed first season but could improve. Wirtz could turn into a top player or could go the way of Kagawa/Mkhitaryan/Sancho where the PL just isn't for him. Isak bit injury prone but could show to be one of the league's top strikers like he did previously.
You could pick holes in all sides to be fair but Liverpool squad has so many issues, it feels like a top 5 race will be their limit rather than title race.
They simply have no pace upfront.
I can't believe how slow and ponderous Isak looks. Hillarious.
I can't believe how slow and ponderous Isak looks. Hillarious.
Define struggle?
6th-10th depending on signings
According to some pundits he had alot of good games last season aswell.
I never actually saw one of these happen myself though.
I agree with all that. Thinking the same more or less but my focus is on best and worst scenario.
This season will solve all those question marks. Kerkez and Frimpong can reach form from Bayer and Bournemouth or can prove that they are not big club material. Isak is a striker who will easily score 20 goals per season but we are yet to see is he injury prone player or not.
And, as you said for Wirtz, no excuses this year. We will see is he new Kagawa or new Bernardo Silva.
I think he is a brilliant coach. But it's one thing to coach Bournemouth in that strategy of high press. It's another to coach a higher possession team. Coaching a team to play with the ball is still the hardest thing to coach in football.
Aren't they linked with Barcola?
Unless he’s going to grow 6 inches, he’ll never, ever be a Premier League full back.
Yep. And spending £100m or so on him would probably be more evidence to a poor transfer strategy.
10th is too low imo, we’ve never finished close to that low in the PL, with way worse squads (and managers) than we currently have.
6th is a kinda realistic scenario but it would need to have us performing at the bottom of our ability imo and/or quite a few injuries.
I’d say 2-6 is the most realistic window with 3-6 being the most likely outcome. I’m including 2 because City lost Pep, Arsenal have a better and more experienced team than us. A lot will depend on injuries, how (if) Isak/Wirtz bounce back after disappointing first seasons, and whether we find a reliable defender to partner Van Dijk with.
Whenever we think that they will struggle, they end up performing like crazy. I am still trying to understand how Slot won a PL title there
Salah had the season of his life and single handedly carried them to it
He better change the colour of his hair
What Merseyside club does he think he signed for?
Let them do it. They should have learned from our mistakes
I'd agree that 10th is unlikely. 6th-8th is where you would realistically finish without some great signings imo. I think the standard of midtable PL teams is way higher than those at the time of your weaker teams of the 2000s. I wouldn't be surprised if Bournemouth end up finishing ahead of you (and some other big teams) this season tbh. I think you have a lot of major weaknesses across so many positions honestly.
I'm assuming Jacquet will be a success even though I haven't seen him much, based mainly on how much you paid for him, but even assuming he is a success, I don't think injury prone Joe Gomez and Ronald Araujo are enough cover for there. I understand you guys like Leoni, and he seems pretty talented, but he also has a bad injury and I'm sceptical about how reliable he will be really for this season at least.
Your full back positions are the biggest issue. They're an absolute mess. I don't think you have a single player that's good enough to be playing there regularly. Maybe you could make Kerkez work if you brought in a defensive cb-style rb to sit deeper, but his positioning is horrendous. Frimpong's even worse to the point I don't think you can even consider him a rb. Maybe he won't be so much of a disaster if you push him to the rw, especially since that's another position where you're extremely weak and lacking any proven quality.
Gravenberch has only had 1 truly good season in his career imo, and he was awful last season. Early signs from what I've seen of him in pre-season don't look like he's suddenly going to regain the form of 2 seasons ago. MacAllister might improve on a really poor season last year and he isn't one of your biggest weaknesses, but probably still a big downgrade on the level he was performing at 2 years ago.
You seem to be selling Gakpo who didn't perform very well last season but was also one of your only sources of goals still in the squad. Wouldn't expect too much from Ngumoha at his age. He's talented but unlikely to be contributing too much this season. Chiesa seems close to useless at this stage in his career. There seems to be some love for Victor Munoz. I've no idea what his level is but 6 goals and 2 assists in La Liga last season sound pretty average to me.
I don't like Wirtz at all. I think he actively makes your team structure worse. He has talent but that doesn't mean he's a net positive for you. I assume he'll be playing more central than on the wing under Iraola. Let's see how he does, but I had my doubts over him before he joined from the Bundesliga and pretty much everything I was sceptical about he struggled with in his 1st season. The amount of space you get in the Bundesliga is simply completely different to the PL and the quality of defending in general in that league is really terrible. Can be fun to watch but makes it a risky league for attaking transfers imo (and we have experienced that ourselves with Sancho who was just as highly rated there as Wirtz).
In terms of positives for you, I'll say Szoboszlai is an excellent player and pretty much as well-rounded a midfielder as you could ask for. I'd hope to see him being used exclusively as a midfielder this season instead of needing to be an emergency rb like at times last season. If he was to get an extended injury 8th-10th might not seem as extreme frankly.
I do think Isak will have a much better season also (and you really need him to in Ekitike's absence). He was world class at Newcastle and I think it's more likely than not that he'll at least get back to double figures in the Prem this season. Ekitike will give you a boost when he returns also, but missing him for the entire first half of the season will be tough to deal with, especially as Isak can be quite injury prone himself. I assume you'll bring in someone to help with that (rumours of Endrick on loan).
I like Barcola so he probably will improve you, but worth noting his end product right now is pretty inconsistent. I'd back him to improve that, but it is possible he won't and there will also be big pressure on him due to the likely massive fee involved.
I think you have more work to do than is realistically possible in the remainder of the window basically, which is why I think you're going to struggle more than most think. If that happens some might blame Iraola, especially given Slot had won the league in his 1st season, so finishing lower than him the following season on paper looks really bad. However, in reality I just think your recruitment/planning team have just done a horrendous job preparing for this season. It's actually very strange to see given you have done so well on that side for the last decade prior.
Klopp had them at 82 points the season before so in hindsight they had a better base level at the time, even though most people predicted them to decline post-Klopp.
But realistically, he squeezed one more great seasons from VVD and Salah before their inevitable decline, with Salah having an all time season winning games every week. Once Salah and VVD became washed due to age there wasn't a lot left.
Pace has never been his thing. He's basically a (significantly) more polished version of Zirkzee and in the right setup, he can be lethal. Last year, he couldn't contribute much because of injuries - he did OK in the games he played although he didn't score a ton of goals. Between him and lame duck Wirtz, I'd be far more concerned if Isak was playing against us.
Were the rumours of them cycling on and off caffeine season by season true? Also weren't there rumours that over half the squad was asthmatic and therefore could take some performance enhancing medicine? Or was that all just bunk?
They also almost always lose to Liverpool. Last time they beat Liverpool at home was in December 2015. Away - mid 1990s. The win in league cup final was one-off.
I mean I get what you're saying but it's one of those where it seems that one side never wins, similar to: Everton against Liverpool (2 wins in 15+ years), Fulham against City (without a win since April 2009 and 20 consecutive defeats in all competitions since February 2012).
But with a new manager and all players gone, Newcastle will have to surprise everyone. Perhaps get a signing or two until that game as well.
You basically think or seem to suggest that most of our not great players will perform at the bottom of their ability - which is of course a possibility but then it's also at least partially on the manager. If Iraola figures it out we might have a long-term LB, a working midfield with a proper 6 again, and a very able attack. On the contrary, again going against your analysis
, I don't expect a lot from Isak in the first few months of the season, he looks off pace so far (understandable).Definitely agree that we need more work than is realistically possible at this stage. Even if the window is open until the end of the month, the season starts in two weeks, so all less than ideal. But if you make this same analysis about some other teams such as Chelsea (new manager, lots of new players and overturn, awful last season, ...), Bournemouth (lost their manager), Spurs (awful last season), Everton (meh), ... I don't see a lot of teams consistent enough to have us lower than 6th at the moment. And that's assuming United continues on the same upward trajectory as last season and Emery once again has Vill up and running (who lost two extremely important playres with Rogers and Tielemans).
I don't expect a lot from this season but I'll be happy if Iraola shows signs of progress and that he knows where he's taking this team. A top 4 challenge deep into the season should still be a somewhat reasonable expectation, whether we make it or not is of less importance to me, I just want to enjoy our football again, last season was absolutely dire in that respect, to the point I couldn't even stomach to put it on anymore.
I think the danger you lot face is how disjointed everything feels rather than all your players underperforming.You basically think or seem to suggest that most of our not great players will perform at the bottom of their ability - which is of course a possibility but then it's also at least partially on the manager. If Iraola figures it out we might have a long-term LB, a working midfield with a proper 6 again, and a very able attack. On the contrary, again going against your analysis
Definitely agree that we need more work than is realistically possible at this stage. Even if the window is open until the end of the month, the season starts in two weeks, so all less than ideal. But if you make this same analysis about some other teams such as Chelsea (new manager, lots of new players and overturn, awful last season, ...), Bournemouth (lost their manager), Spurs (awful last season), Everton (meh), ... I don't see a lot of teams consistent enough to have us lower than 6th at the moment. And that's assuming United continues on the same upward trajectory as last season and Emery once again has Vill up and running (who lost two extremely important playres with Rogers and Tielemans).
I don't expect a lot from this season but I'll be happy if Iraola shows signs of progress and that he knows where he's taking this team. A top 4 challenge deep into the season should still be a somewhat reasonable expectation, whether we make it or not is of less importance to me, I just want to enjoy our football again, last season was absolutely dire in that respect, to the point I couldn't even stomach to put it on anymore.
For instance, if I were you I would be concerned about:
1) The manager. Already he is getting excuses in about squad size and how you lot cannot put in a performance for 90 mins. Then there is his complete lack of experience at a top level club as either a player or manager, coupled with him usually playing counter attack (which won't work when everyone low blocks you.)
2) You squad depth in really poor. This means some of your players are going to have to do 50+ games, which runs the risk of injury as the drop off after them is stark.
3) You have some really bad injuries to key players. Both your young CB's are coming in after long layoffs, your best attacker snap his achilles and isn't back until the NY at best. You best FB is always injured. The guy you have to hope can led the line for you for the first four months is know for breaking down often. Your GK1 has been crazily injury prone for a GK in the past two years.
4) There doesn't seem to be joined up thinking with your transfers. Last Summer looks more and more disastrous in that you overpaid and understocked key areas. This Summer looks like you don't have the dollar to spend again as you're struggling to raise any cash as there aren't many sellable assets.
5) You've lost your aura. Last year this allowed you a bit of breathing room at the start of the season but now everyone knows there is a bit of blood in the water and you could be vulnerable.
Obviously, looking at your first XV players you've got a very good team, but once you take away the injuries, the lack of form of some of your expensive signings, your managers lack of experience and the lack of quality/experience in depth and it really does look dicey.
All this said, knowing your luck you come out flying and win the first five. Which is a bit like last Summee where I was one of the few voices saying I thought Liverpool weren't in a great spot and could be in trouble, then you went out and one 5-6 on the spin.
Squad building isn’t just about blowing your load on overhyped attackers for inflated fees. In midfield and defence they haven’t progressed well and letting to of starting players for free, is just really poor from all involved.
I do agree that they still have quality and tbh some takes in this thread are very optimistic (for us). If they are well managed they should get CL football. It’s more in the context of a top team (which they recently were) that I say that they’ve fumbled.
More pressure and expectation on iraola
Can't read too much into pre-season. I've not yet watched the game but can imagine that being 2-0 up, only to lose, is likely down to giving fringe and young players a go in the second half, or tinkering with tactics.
Still work to be done and positions to fill, but I wouldn't read too much into the pre-season games as I've been down that road before, after a good pre-season, and watched us flop the next PL season
Still work to be done and positions to fill, but I wouldn't read too much into the pre-season games as I've been down that road before, after a good pre-season, and watched us flop the next PL season
Slot really did a number on us. It's fecking unfathomable he wasn't sacked in January. Hughes could see what was, or rather wasn't, happening on the training ground and either was or acted clueless.