Fair enough, I got that wrong. I don't think it particular negates my point, he could be a Di Matteo, he could be a Flick, or somewhere in the middle. I don't think any of what we've seen gives us any real insight to that or how it would even look. I think Iraola at least has a large body of work and a consistent implemented style, Carrick doesn't have that. I don't see a double standard.
Andoni Iraola
- Thread starter JB08
- Start date
He's my number one choice (assuming Enrique is impossible). I hope we give him serious consideration, which seems likely given the managerial market at the moment.
I don’t think the powers that be see it as a worthwhile risk. Maybe the go for him if Amorim hadn’t happened but they probably want the stabilisation Carrick has brought continuing into next season.
They just battered PSG 3-0 in the Summer. It safe to say that they have much better XI.
So one game in a competition that isnt even the champions league final stages is more important than 38 games?
Chelsea have proven they are average this season. Certain players are better than that but they have some real weak areas and those are important ones like goalscoring. Especially when you consider they've had 7 penalty goals
The only good part of their team is full back and midfield. Cowill is good though. Generally speaking their keeper, defence and attackers are crap.
@Isotope see what you did.
It wasn’t only one game competition though.
This season yes.they’re average. Last season they finished 4th.
Only after Carrick is taking over, United fans would claim we have better XI. Before, do you really believe that?
The reason I mentioned a "double standard" to you was specifically because of the Di Matteo confusion. Since we now agree that Chelsea actually gave him a permanent contract, we were essentially speaking different languages. If you had used Avram Grant (07-08) or Hiddink (08-09) as examples—successful interims who were moved on—there wouldn't have been any confusion.
However, even in those cases, the clubs only moved on from a successful interim because they landed a prestige heavyweight like Scolari or Ancelotti. They didn't replace them with someone who was "promising" or had "potential" from a lower-tier environment. This aligns with my two main points:
1. The "Guaranteed Upgrade" Rule
If United can bring in someone who is obviously better, like Enrique, I’m all for it. But Iraola has no obvious edge over Carrick; he represents the same level of risk, if not more. History shows that "experience" at a lower level rarely translates to an immediate step-up to a giant. For every rare success like Kompany at Bayern, there are multiple failures like Potter at Chelsea, Moyes at United, and more recently, Amorim and Rosenior. Even Xabi Alonso at Leverkusen, who had a much more dominant body of work than Iraola, failed to step up immediately. You could argue that was due to the notoriously difficult dressing room and the failure of the club's management, but United is also famous for having those exact same setups.
2. The Man-Management Hurdle
If we were still in the slump we experienced under Amorim, bringing in Iraola would be a logical experiment. But we aren't in a slump. We are on an amazing run where the players and the fans respect the man in charge.
Replacing a successful, respected interim with an unproven alternative like Iraola doesn't just gamble on tactics—it gambles on the entire dressing room. This man-management factor is constantly overlooked here. Carrick has already cleared one of the hardest hurdles: winning the players over. Bringing in a new guy with "more experience" at a lower level doesn't mean he will have the authority in this dressing room. In fact, by moving on from a successful interim for a unproven one (even if he's promising), you are setting an extremely high standard and putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the successor from day one.
I’m not saying Carrick is a guaranteed success, and I’m not saying Iraola is a guaranteed flop. The bottom line is, when you have points, goals, and a happy dressing room, you only change the head coach for a guaranteed upgrade. Iraola isn't that; he's just a different kind of gamble.
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Yes. Thats why I believed Amorim wasnt doing our players justice. It wouldnt make sense to want change if I didnt already believe we had players who, played in their proper positions would do far better. I didnt expect 3rd when Carrick took over, I thought 4th was very achievable. And thats a lot better than Chelsea in 9th
Sure when they beat PSG of course I thought maybe Chelsea had turned the corner. But they've been worse than last season. One of the reasons being their star player hasnt been like his previous seasons. How good would we be if Bruno wasnt our best performer? Thats essentially where Chelsea are at. Joao Pedro has been good but he hasnt been as good as Cole Palmer in the past couple of seasons so they're more average this season. Honestly I think its a really weird idea that their first 11 is better for in the premier league because it hasnt been and thats despite knowing that they played better than us in our last game in general play. But they lost. And thats one of the main differences. If we played them again I expect the same would happen thus we're better.
The difference is who has been sitting on the bench since they also booted their manager.
I’m not really disagreeing with you and that’s fair enough I just think at this point Carrick has earned it unless we can get Enrique or someone like that.
There's absolutely every chance he could catch Villa based on what I watched today. That would be one hell of a season.
Terzic to Bilbao... It's so on.
I really hope he doesn’t go to Chelsea. Not because I worry he’d do well but I think he should go to a more stable club and build his reputation.
He’s actually got a pretty decent chance of getting Bournemouth into the champions league if Villa slip up or if they finish 5th and win the Europa League. They have Fulham (away) City (home) and Forest (away). Not easy but Villa are struggling and have some tricky fixtures themselves.
If he does it then, that’s one hell of an achievement. I mean, Bournemouth in the champions league…not sure many of us would have predicted that in our lifetimes
He’s actually got a pretty decent chance of getting Bournemouth into the champions league if Villa slip up or if they finish 5th and win the Europa League. They have Fulham (away) City (home) and Forest (away). Not easy but Villa are struggling and have some tricky fixtures themselves.
If he does it then, that’s one hell of an achievement. I mean, Bournemouth in the champions league…not sure many of us would have predicted that in our lifetimes
I think he's a really good coach and wouldn't be the gamble some posters here think he would be. Unfortunately results have handed the job to Carrick so we'll miss out.
Iraola and Carrick - Dream Team, Tactical prowess and the United way blended
If Villa win the EL, does 6th get CL?I really hope he doesn’t go to Chelsea. Not because I worry he’d do well but I think he should go to a more stable club and build his reputation.
He’s actually got a pretty decent chance of getting Bournemouth into the champions league if Villa slip up or if they finish 5th and win the Europa League. They have Fulham (away) City (home) and Forest (away). Not easy but Villa are struggling and have some tricky fixtures themselves.
If he does it then, that’s one hell of an achievement. I mean, Bournemouth in the champions league…not sure many of us would have predicted that in our lifetimes
If Villa win the Europa League and finish fifth in the league, then the team that finishes sixth would take the EPS spot to play in the UCL.
It could get get even madder - the Premier League might find themselves in a situation where they have a team going into the final game of the season believing that if they win they won't get UCL football, but if they lose they will get UCL football.
Does their opponent have any skin in that game?
Brentford v Liverpool
Can you explain it to me? I can't figure it out
Brentford.
If they are in 6th place and beat Liverpool, and in doing so Villa get 4th place. If Villa win Europa League then 6th place would not get a spot in this scenario.
However if by losing to Liverpool they ensured Villa got 5th spot. With them winning Europa, then 6th place gets the CL spot.
It’s all very hypothetical. Things have to go an exact way for this to happen.
Very well said. Your post didn't get any play, but I generally think that's because it made the points so effectively that the typical negativity in the Caf is finding it hard to manifest in response. Your post is pretty much exactly how I see it too. I like Iraola, and think he would be a promising appointment, but I think it's nothing but a gamble to appoint him - given all the factors, such as experience - and even more so in the wake of Carrick's success so far.
Yes, so unfortunate that Carrick has done so well and gotten us into the CL.
Ahh I see. Thanks
it’s so unfortunate that we’ll miss on the new manager outperforming at a midtable club, because all the others have been huge successes.
Potter and Frank have helped Chelsea and Tottenham win so many trophies since they were snapped up by other clubs than us
It’s so unfortunate that we are actually winning games. I swear some people would rather we suck every year so we can hire the most hyped mid table manager every year.
Apologies for not responding to this, as you bothered to put effort into the response, I thought I'd ad least wait until I put a modicum of it to mine.
1. So I would only say there's no obvious edge if you're heavily weighting the interim stint. Carrick has literally never:
- Had a pre-season for a prem team
- Managed a full season in the prem
- Develop and shaped a premier league squad
- Develop and implement a playing style over a long period of time
2. I think it's split down the middle with the fans and again, I think we're weighting this aspect too heavily. If the only thing missing was gelling the well assembled squad together, then I would weight this higher. We're about to drastically change the squad anyway with heavy investment in the summer and supposedly change our style. I think this would make sense as an argument if we were just going to add to the team slightly and keep the same style of play, but I'm sure that's not going to be the case.
I'm also not saying it's a massive upgrade, In my opinion I just think there's way more things to hang your hat on for Iraola:
- Style of play - we know what that would be and think it would suit United (that's up for debate though)
- Developing players - has a long list of players in the prem that have gone on to massive clubs
- Developing a squad - he actually uses and rotates his squad very effectively, in game as well
- Consistent improvement in an ever changing environment - losing best players
- Man management - lots of testimony to it from ex players
- Knows and has this squads trust
- Incredible form since he took over mid season
- Has played for the club before, so there's an emotional tie
Also, to be clear, Enrique would absolutely blow both out the water.
Why is it relevant how Potter or Frank did? If we're just saying, "look this mid table manager who plays a different style of football, with completely different players at a different club did not do well." Then the flip argument, "look at all these big name managers United have hired that failed" is stronger. It's all broadly irrelevant. What matters is the squad we have right now, what is it suited for, and what types of players will we be targeting.
United need to decide how we want to play before anything else. People need to get way less blinded by emotion when thinking about coaches, we're in the era of data focused recruitment and DoFs now, the head coach is replaceable and far less important than the days of managers. Half their job is literally just keeping players on onside, I'd argue more even, which is Carrick's strongest suit from the little evidence we have in fairness although how much of that is solely on him vs simply following such a terrible man manager in Amorim.
Because people are making this argument that somehow of ALL the midtable managers we’ve seen make the move and who almost all failed, somehow Iraola would be the exception.
And people do this only to shite on the club because that’s one of the favorite activities of Caf members. Management is clueless for not appointing yet another hype manager of the season who plays attractive football.
Who’s blinded by emotion? I don’t even care about Carrick. But history tells me the absolute majority of coaches like Iraola have failed to make the step up, so unless a top top coach us available, Carrick or Iraola are equally risky, but Carrick actually shown that for now he managed to get us results and as you said have the players on his side. Is he the guy that will bring us back to glory? Probably not. But there is no more certainty that Iraola.
We’ve spent the last 6 or 7 years saying « it can’t get worse than our actual manager ». Yet it kept getting worse. Carrick’s interim has steadied the ship.
I also have nothing against Iraola, but for now he only strikes me as the next manager in a long list of hyped managers that completely disappeared when they tried their hand at a bigger club.
I did not read that all but the clear difference between Iraola and these other guys is that he’s a disciple of Bielsa and schooled at Bilbao so he’s already way beyond those others. There is clear potential for something great in him.
You seem to have ignored my post? Loads of mid table managers have failed at various clubs, some have done ok, loads of big name managers have failed at various clubs, some have done ok. The manager is much less important than recruitment but saying mid table managers rarely make the step up is pretty meaningless given different players, clubs, owners etc.
People generally seem to be being quite level headed about the next appointment - most seem to accept their top choice isn't available and so it's a case of Carrick vs others and the current favourite and obvious choice would be Iraola because a) he has run down his deal and b) he has got a team punching significantly despite continuously getting asset stripped. From that you mitigate the fear of whether a coach is PL proven (obviously he is as he plays in the PL) and if the recruitment is masking his abilities somewhat (Potter or Frank would be great examples here in my opinion). The choice is more stylistic to be honest, do they want someone who bases their offence off a high press or not. If they don't they should just keep Carrick.
This is key for me and I currently have no idea how Carrick actually intends to play going forward. I don't see the way we're playing a good long term solution and I don't know what he's suggesting we do long term, if we are to change.
Shows how high the standards were at Chelsea. We were 3rd in the league, but results in the CL were poor and Abramovich rage quit on RDM after we lost 3-0 to Juventus.
You are right though. RDM was given a 4 year contract after winning the CL, then sacked 4 months later.
The same Bielsa who failed at Leeds?