Andre Marriner

Denis' cuff

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I can’t remember the match now, I think it was last season, but after ignoring a blatant penalty award to United, when Marriner was questioned after the match his response was “I didn’t want to be the star of the show on match of the day tonight “.

With that attitude and hordes of ex-Liverpool in the studio it’s hardly surprising they get favourable decisions.
 

arnie_ni

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Milner smashed someone at the half way line and it was a clear bookable offence but he played advantage. Play only stopped when Milner stopped an attack at the edge of his own box 30 seconds later, which he got booked for.

Can the ref double book a player for 2 seperate bookable offences if he plays advantage on the first one?

Ive never seen it happen, but it should have
 

andyox

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Milner smashed someone at the half way line and it was a clear bookable offence but he played advantage. Play only stopped when Milner stopped an attack at the edge of his own box 30 seconds later, which he got booked for.

Can the ref double book a player for 2 seperate bookable offences if he plays advantage on the first one?

Ive never seen it happen, but it should have
Same thing happened with Rudiger in the Carabao Cup Final this season. I can't find a good video of it, but more or less the same as today. KDB was breaking forward and was scythed down by Rudiger about 35 yards from goal, ball rolled on to D. Silva so referee played advantage, and D. Silva was then scythed down by Rudiger on the edge of the box. Both fouls took place within about 5 seconds of each other and both were obvious yellow cards (cynical sliding tackles from behind with no attempt to play the ball) but he only received one.

It seems unfair to me. If the fouls had been delivered by different players then the referee would've had to produce two yellow cards, one for each player. There surely can't be a law to prevent the referee giving the same player two yellow cards, so I'm guessing it's just the referee bottling it on both occasions.
 

Denis' cuff

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If that was Pogba on Shelvey he would have sent him off and we would never hear the end of it.

That’s my problem with Marriner he’s a complete homer. He’d favour the home team give every half free kick to the home side and then let them do whatever they want too.

He isn’t so much a homer, as he is a fecking coward who plays to the media gallery.

The opposite of eg: Mike Dean. You have to acknowledge it’s a difficult job but they are supposed to be professionals. It’s not so much that they make mistakes - that is just human error and acceptable but a lot of this stuff is actually a pattern of behaviour.
 

ninjaskill

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The whole fecking crew needs to be demoted, especially that assistant referee who made the call for Fabinho. The fourth official should have brought Arnold’s incorrect punishment administration to Mariner at halftime either privately or with the rest of the crew (I couldn’t see who the fourth official was, but he had to be another PL center official & needed to ensure that the same sort of idiocy didn’t permeate into the second half). As far as the other assistant referee, the only official who didn’t make a glaring feck up, he should be demoted simply due to proximity to the shitshow.
All he should have done was book Alexander Arnold for handball it’s not the biggest mistake. You aren’t denying a clear goal scoring chance if the team scores a goal two seconds later anyway
 

calodo2003

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All he should have done was book Alexander Arnold for handball it’s not the biggest mistake. You aren’t denying a clear goal scoring chance if the team scores a goal two seconds later anyway
The fact that the goal was scored has nothing to do with the handball, they were two separate plays. By the letter of the law, Arnold should have received a retro card , Yellow or red can be debatable. But referees don’t try to take stock of both sides & try to balance calls out. The goal was allowed to stand due to the fact that the referee allowed play to go on through an advantage. The fact that advantage was employed means that the referee deemed that Arnold committed an infraction. The result of the advantage play has no bearing at all regarding to what severity the retro punishment would be. They are two independent, objective plays that mean nothing to one and other except through advantage being called.

The same issue happened with Milner’s two cautionable offenses near the end of the game. Mariner waved advantage after the first cautionable offenses, meaning he registered & drew attention the first foul because he played advantage & had the time to raise his hands signaling for advantage. Fifteen seconds later, Milner commits another cautionable offenses & this time Mariner blew the play dead. Mariner fecked up by not issuing two yellow cards to Milner. It doesn’t matter how close those fouls were in real time, those two fouls were unique plays separated by the advantage call. This time Mariner potentially took into account that the fouls were so close together that it could have been unfair to give Milner two bookings, but, the proper call should have been just that.

Both plays show how subjectivity should not be employed when officiating football matches especially at top levels. It was an embarrassing showing by Mariner. If he would have done what he was supposed to do, he would have risen significantly in quality & assessment by both the English & international referee association assessors. Hopefully he & his team will be punished by the same assessors for a shit performance yesterday.
 

reuben290

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Same thing happened with Rudiger in the Carabao Cup Final this season. I can't find a good video of it, but more or less the same as today. KDB was breaking forward and was scythed down by Rudiger about 35 yards from goal, ball rolled on to D. Silva so referee played advantage, and D. Silva was then scythed down by Rudiger on the edge of the box. Both fouls took place within about 5 seconds of each other and both were obvious yellow cards (cynical sliding tackles from behind with no attempt to play the ball) but he only received one.

It seems unfair to me. If the fouls had been delivered by different players then the referee would've had to produce two yellow cards, one for each player. There surely can't be a law to prevent the referee giving the same player two yellow cards, so I'm guessing it's just the referee bottling it on both occasions.
I've never agreed that players should be given two yellow cards for two different fouls... reason being, the whole point of a yellow card is to receive a warning. I just don't think it seems right to punish a player with two yellows when you haven't shown him the first one yet. If a player is shown a yellow, it makes him think twice about going in for another heavy challenge (it should do anyway). In the heat of the moment, when the referee plays advantage, it's very possible that the same player will carry on and commit two fouls. Using this sort of logic would mean a lot more players being sent off just for the sake of being technical... for example if a player pushes another in the chest twice (one push is often a bookable fence so two would mean two yellows), or if a player takes off his shirt and runs into the crowd (which I've seen happen many times)... there should be one yellow for the shirt removal (which I don't agree with anyway), and one yellow for running into the crowd. I just think it's common sense, something which football should never lose.
 

dbs235

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The fact that the goal was scored has nothing to do with the handball, they were two separate plays. By the letter of the law, Arnold should have received a retro card , Yellow or red can be debatable. But referees don’t try to take stock of both sides & try to balance calls out. The goal was allowed to stand due to the fact that the referee allowed play to go on through an advantage. The fact that advantage was employed means that the referee deemed that Arnold committed an infraction. The result of the advantage play has no bearing at all regarding to what severity the retro punishment would be. They are two independent, objective plays that mean nothing to one and other except through advantage being called.

The same issue happened with Milner’s two cautionable offenses near the end of the game. Mariner waved advantage after the first cautionable offenses, meaning he registered & drew attention the first foul because he played advantage & had the time to raise his hands signaling for advantage. Fifteen seconds later, Milner commits another cautionable offenses & this time Mariner blew the play dead. Mariner fecked up by not issuing two yellow cards to Milner. It doesn’t matter how close those fouls were in real time, those two fouls were unique plays separated by the advantage call. This time Mariner potentially took into account that the fouls were so close together that it could have been unfair to give Milner two bookings, but, the proper call should have been just that.

Both plays show how subjectivity should not be employed when officiating football matches especially at top levels. It was an embarrassing showing by Mariner. If he would have done what he was supposed to do, he would have risen significantly in quality & assessment by both the English & international referee association assessors. Hopefully he & his team will be punished by the same assessors for a shit performance yesterday.
People criticising referees this much should try refereeing a game first. It's fecking hard. If we punished refs for every mistake there'd be no one left to referee.
 

GaryLifo

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Weird one though isn’t it? Newcastle would have been better off with the penalty and Liverpool down to 10. Maybe Atsu should have just smashed it wide.
For handball that prevents a goal I've always thought it should be a decision for the team who have been offended against. They can either have an instant goal awarded regardless or they can opt for the offending player to be sent off but no penalty and no goal awarded.

So your choice is goal or play ten men. Would make for some interesting tactical decisions.
 

OldSchoolManc

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The blatant favouritism of the officials, towards Liverpool last night, was a disgrace!
The non penalty, non carded ‘advantage’ for stopping a certain goal with his hand.
The Fabinho dive, which resulted in a free kick goal. Right in front of the linesman!
Milner giving two yellow card tackles in one sequence of play.
VVD’s MMA tackle on a Newcastle player just outside their box.
I could go on, but I’d have a meltdown.
 

calodo2003

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The fact that the goal was scored has nothing to do with the handball, they were two separate plays. By the letter of the law, Arnold should have received a retro card , Yellow or red can be debatable. But referees don’t try to take stock of both sides & try to balance calls out. The goal was allowed to stand due to the fact that the referee allowed play to go on through an advantage. The fact that advantage was employed means that the referee deemed that Arnold committed an infraction. The result of the advantage play has no bearing at all regarding to what severity the retro punishment would be. They are two independent, objective plays that mean nothing to one and other except through advantage being called.

The same issue happened with Milner’s two cautionable offenses near the end of the game. Mariner waved advantage after the first cautionable offenses, meaning he registered & drew attention the first foul because he played advantage & had the time to raise his hands signaling for advantage. Fifteen seconds later, Milner commits another cautionable offenses & this time Mariner blew the play dead. Mariner fecked up by not issuing two yellow cards to Milner. It doesn’t matter how close those fouls were in real time, those two fouls were unique plays separated by the advantage call. This time Mariner potentially took into account that the fouls were so close together that it could have been unfair to give Milner two bookings, but, the proper call should have been just that.

Both plays show how subjectivity should not be employed when officiating football matches especially at top levels. It was an embarrassing showing by Mariner. If he would have done what he was supposed to do, he would have risen significantly in quality & assessment by both the English & international referee association assessors. Hopefully he & his team will be punished by the same assessors for a shit performance yesterday.
I did it for a long time at a pretty USSF high level, it can be decently enjoyable at very intermittent times & soul-crushingly disappointing a bit more often.
 

calodo2003

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I've never agreed that players should be given two yellow cards for two different fouls... reason being, the whole point of a yellow card is to receive a warning. I just don't think it seems right to punish a player with two yellows when you haven't shown him the first one yet. If a player is shown a yellow, it makes him think twice about going in for another heavy challenge (it should do anyway). In the heat of the moment, when the referee plays advantage, it's very possible that the same player will carry on and commit two fouls. Using this sort of logic would mean a lot more players being sent off just for the sake of being technical... for example if a player pushes another in the chest twice (one push is often a bookable fence so two would mean two yellows), or if a player takes off his shirt and runs into the crowd (which I've seen happen many times)... there should be one yellow for the shirt removal (which I don't agree with anyway), and one yellow for running into the crowd. I just think it's common sense, something which football should never lose.
Such events are not common at all & certain fouls rise to the immediate booking or sending off. Do you not think there should be sendings off for violent conduct early in matches, but warnings instead?

The flip side of your argument also is that the player committing the multiple cautionable offenses knows he can & will take advantage of most likely getting no punishment for one of the fouls. A massive advantage could be gained by the fouling player’s team by either sniffing out promising buildup of the opponents or intentionally injuring an opposing player.

I agree to a certain extent that there should be common sense when administering fouls by the center official. The risk is that employing too much common sense will bring subjectivity too much into play, eroding the framework of the ‘letters of the law’ & eroding any confidence in the officials as there will be little structure to their performance & both players & fans will always be confused as to how the referees will officiate from match to match.
 

Cutch

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Milner smashed someone at the half way line and it was a clear bookable offence but he played advantage. Play only stopped when Milner stopped an attack at the edge of his own box 30 seconds later, which he got booked for.

Can the ref double book a player for 2 seperate bookable offences if he plays advantage on the first one?

Ive never seen it happen, but it should have
 

Mb194dc

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Milner should have had two yellows.

Rudiger in the league cup final the same.
 

reuben290

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Such events are not common at all & certain fouls rise to the immediate booking or sending off. Do you not think there should be sendings off for violent conduct early in matches, but warnings instead?

The flip side of your argument also is that the player committing the multiple cautionable offenses knows he can & will take advantage of most likely getting no punishment for one of the fouls. A massive advantage could be gained by the fouling player’s team by either sniffing out promising buildup of the opponents or intentionally injuring an opposing player.

I agree to a certain extent that there should be common sense when administering fouls by the center official. The risk is that employing too much common sense will bring subjectivity too much into play, eroding the framework of the ‘letters of the law’ & eroding any confidence in the officials as there will be little structure to their performance & both players & fans will always be confused as to how the referees will officiate from match to match.
No of course not. If an incident is deemed worthy of a straight red then it's a straight red. It's just my opinion though... I just think it goes against the point of a yellow card which is supposed to be a warning to the player to behave himself for the rest of the game.
 

andyox

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I've never agreed that players should be given two yellow cards for two different fouls... reason being, the whole point of a yellow card is to receive a warning. I just don't think it seems right to punish a player with two yellows when you haven't shown him the first one yet. If a player is shown a yellow, it makes him think twice about going in for another heavy challenge (it should do anyway). In the heat of the moment, when the referee plays advantage, it's very possible that the same player will carry on and commit two fouls. Using this sort of logic would mean a lot more players being sent off just for the sake of being technical... for example if a player pushes another in the chest twice (one push is often a bookable fence so two would mean two yellows), or if a player takes off his shirt and runs into the crowd (which I've seen happen many times)... there should be one yellow for the shirt removal (which I don't agree with anyway), and one yellow for running into the crowd. I just think it's common sense, something which football should never lose.
A yellow card isn't a warning, it's a punishment for a foul/infraction. By your logic, a player committing a yellow card worthy offence (where play continues due to advantage) would effectively have immunity to commit any other fouls up until the point that the ball goes out of play or the referee blows his whistle for the second foul since he could only be given one card. That's not fair. And as above, it can't be right that two yellow card-worthy fouls in the same play by two different players would lead to two yellow cards (one for each player), but two yellow card-worthy fouls by the same player would only lead to one yellow card. That's not a fair application of the rules.
 

calodo2003

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No of course not. If an incident is deemed worthy of a straight red then it's a straight red. It's just my opinion though... I just think it goes against the point of a yellow card which is supposed to be a warning to the player to behave himself for the rest of the game.
Yellow cards for infractions aren’t attention getters or warnings, it is reflective of a serious infraction. They aren’t suggestions to a player in how he / she should play the rest of the match.
 

Samid

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How the feck is he still getting games at this level?!

Marriner, Dean, Atkinson. Swear the shitter you are the longer you are allowed to stay on as a PL ref.
 

Jack-C20

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Looks all at sea.

I’m not checking if that joke has been made before and I’m not checking.

He is annoying though. Doing that thing all refs do where they wave away free kicks, trying to look strong only to give a free kick for the same thing in two minutes time.
 

arthurka

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Don't care about the refs anymore. We should focus on ourselves it's not a pretty sight to behold.