Andreas Pereira Loan watch - Lazio 2020-21

Lentwood

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We’re still not great at picking loan moves for our players.

Why Lazio? Was he ever likely to start most games? Why Serie A? Not exactly “shop window” is it...the top few teams wouldn’t want him and as far as I can tell, the bottom 13/14 clubs are potless. It’s also a relatively competitive league with lots of tight games. Not great for a bit-part attacking player.

Surely with a player like Pereira, you accept paying his wages for a season and send him somewhere like the Ligue Un or the Eredivisie or even Celtic/Rangers. That way, he starts every week, probably gets a few goals and a few assists and suddenly he’s a more attractive prospect. Even if you send fringe players to other PL clubs and they do only moderately, at least they’re in the shop window for clubs who actually have money to spend.

We’ve sent two players to Italy this season. Both have hardly played and both will come back having not raised their reputation or value at all.
 

Bastian

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Dalot has played 10 games, which is more than I expected he'd get. And probably 10 times the amount he'd have played at United. Scored last weekend too.

The Lazio loan though has been terrible. A wasted year.
 

ti vu

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We’re still not great at picking loan moves for our players.

Why Lazio? Was he ever likely to start most games? Why Serie A? Not exactly “shop window” is it...the top few teams wouldn’t want him and as far as I can tell, the bottom 13/14 clubs are potless. It’s also a relatively competitive league with lots of tight games. Not great for a bit-part attacking player.

Surely with a player like Pereira, you accept paying his wages for a season and send him somewhere like the Ligue Un or the Eredivisie or even Celtic/Rangers. That way, he starts every week, probably gets a few goals and a few assists and suddenly he’s a more attractive prospect. Even if you send fringe players to other PL clubs and they do only moderately, at least they’re in the shop window for clubs who actually have money to spend.

We’ve sent two players to Italy this season. Both have hardly played and both will come back having not raised their reputation or value at all.
Nobody else wants him, even for loan while paying his wage. It's a surprise Lazio took him. Pereira is not some brilliant talent in high demand.

Our squad was full as is. So had he stayed, we had to make a decision to whether leaving him or another somebody out. We already had to leave Rojo, Jones, Romero out while paying them wage.

Said in the summer, and repeat it now. We got carried last season when quite some of players qualified as U21 to allow us a bloated squad. It's bad planning leading to panic when the window opened both in recruitment, and outgoings.
 

pascell

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Dalot has played 10 games, which is more than I expected he'd get. And probably 10 times the amount he'd have played at United. Scored last weekend too.

The Lazio loan though has been terrible. A wasted year.
We've handled his development very poorly on the whole. The loans to Valencia and then Granada were baffling, they don't play the same systems as each other and it was a waste of two seasons of his development.
 

Adam-Utd

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We’re still not great at picking loan moves for our players.

Why Lazio? Was he ever likely to start most games? Why Serie A? Not exactly “shop window” is it...the top few teams wouldn’t want him and as far as I can tell, the bottom 13/14 clubs are potless. It’s also a relatively competitive league with lots of tight games. Not great for a bit-part attacking player.

Surely with a player like Pereira, you accept paying his wages for a season and send him somewhere like the Ligue Un or the Eredivisie or even Celtic/Rangers. That way, he starts every week, probably gets a few goals and a few assists and suddenly he’s a more attractive prospect. Even if you send fringe players to other PL clubs and they do only moderately, at least they’re in the shop window for clubs who actually have money to spend.

We’ve sent two players to Italy this season. Both have hardly played and both will come back having not raised their reputation or value at all.
He just isn't very good.

This is the issue with our squad, our fans get attached to bang average players just because they've played in our academy for a few years.

It was pretty clear early on he was never going to be good enough for United, same with people like Fosu Mensah.
 

dinostar77

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He just isn't very good.
Agreed. Mid table championship or midtable portugese or French league teams. He needs a reality check.
 

Adam-Utd

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Agreed. Mid table championship or midtable portugese or French league teams. He needs a reality check.
The game at home to Villa, and the match away to Sheffield proved that to me.

He was fine in matches with a slow tempo where he could rely on technique, but in fast paced games he was lost.
 

Lentwood

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He just isn't very good.

This is the issue with our squad, our fans get attached to bang average players just because they've played in our academy for a few years.

It was pretty clear early on he was never going to be good enough for United, same with people like Fosu Mensah.
Neither are Jordan Ibe, Rhian Brewster or Dominic Solanke but Liverpool have managed to get the best part of £60m for them.

There are a couple of things we could do in my opinion to start getting better transfer fees for our unwanted Academy players.

1) Be very careful where we send players on loan and prioritise them actually getting good game-time in a league they can perform at an above-average level in. For example, I understand that if we're trying to loan a player out and recoup wages, that somewhat limits our options. Therefore, I'd be happy not to be too worried about that, especially because I wouldn't have thought to many Academy players would be on a significant amount of money to a club like Utd. Instead, we should be thinking 'where can this player go on loan, play 40 games and be the star of the show'? For example, if we had sent Pereira to Celtic or PSV Eindhoven, for example, I am sure he would have been far too good for the SPL or the Eredivisie and someone either at the lower-end of the PL or in La Liga, Ligue Un, Serie A etc...might have taken a punt at something like £20m. Instead, we've messed around, sent him on odd loans, brought him back into the playing squad, given him limited exposure in a struggling team and then sent him on loan to a club he's realistically not really cut-out for. He's hardly in the shop window by playing the odd game for Lazio in Serie A.

2) Sell players earlier at the peak of their potential 'hype'. Also, have some kind of cut-off point at which a player can reasonably be expected to remain at the club WITHOUT having broken into the match day squad on a regular basis. For example, we could say IF a player hits 20/21 and they aren't regularly considered for selection then they should be moved on. This sounds risky but it's not if you include a buy-back clause at a reasonable level. It's how most 'top' clubs have managed the sale of their home-grown prospects for a while now.

In this scenario, we could have sold a player like Brandon Williams, who has had limited game-time since the arrival of Telles, for £15m+ at the start of the season. We could then have included a buy-back at £30m and a 30% sell-on fee. That way, if he DOES because good enough for our first team AND we need a player in that position, we can sign him back for the bargain price of £30m. If he becomes a good player but not quite good enough for United and/or we just don't need a fullback, we've not only banked £15m but we could also bank 30% of another decent fee.

It's actually very rare that a player coming through our Academy will prove good enough for the first XI. We shouldn't be ashamed about letting players go for fees in their early 20s. It's not necessarily the wrong thing to do, even if they turn out to be really good, because the argument is they would never have gotten to that level had they just been sat on our bench or farmed out on weird loans!
 

Adam-Utd

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Neither are Jordan Ibe, Rhian Brewster or Dominic Solanke but Liverpool have managed to get the best part of £60m for them.
The key difference is they're english, and they sold them at a young enough age that they still had "potential"

Pereira is the wrong side of 20 now to be worth anything decent.
 

gajender

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The key difference is they're english, and they sold them at a young enough age that they still had "potential"

Pereira is the wrong side of 20 now to be worth anything decent.
Just to add further they were sold to English Clubs and two of them were striker and one was winger who usually command slight premium as well.
 

Adam-Utd

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Just to add further they were sold to English Clubs and two of them were striker and one was winger who usually command slight premium as well.
and 2 of them went to Bournemouth with Eddie Howe who clearly WAY over paid.
 

#07

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Value protected. Fantastic return on that new deal. :lol:
 

redshaw

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More money down the drain, duff players on long contracts while quality players like Tielemans go begging.

I hope he can go on loan again for his own sake.
 

::sonny::

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Pogba will be sold, and he will try to play his chances
 
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Zlatattack

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More money down the drain, duff players on long contracts while quality players like Tielemans go begging.

I hope he can go on loan again for his own sake.
Exactly this. Why we insist on retaining crap players is beyond me. They add no value to the squad. Might as well have kids from the under 23's in there.
 

BlahRules

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Exactly this. Why we insist on retaining crap players is beyond me. They add no value to the squad. Might as well have kids from the under 23's in there.
I never understand this, we give them a long contract on the basis if they may come good. We should be selling them with a buyback clause incase if they do come good.

We should be promoting youth to the fringe on the odd chances they make the cut and if not, sell them with a buyback clause.
 

2 man midfield

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Surely this is just the first part of a deal being reached with Lazio, i.e for them to reject the 27m option price? Then we come back and say ok you can have him for £2.50?

Anything to get him off the books.
 

SoCross

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Still better than Donny.
Unfortunately, this is true. Andreas would have shown more and had shown more.

Hopefully DVB will come good next season.

As for Pereira...his technique is good but he struggled with the pace of the game. Wouldn’t be adverse to loaning him out to an English club side next season. Might do well for one of the promoted sides, perhaps one of Swansea or Brentford.
 

kundalini

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Only 2 uneventful pages of his loan stint. How did he actually do at Lazio?
528 mins in Serie A. 3 starts 23 sub appearances. Scored 1 goal + 2 assists. 1 red card and 5 yellow. 133 mins in CL, 0 starts, 5 sub appearances, 1 assist.

He was a sub who came on for the last 15 mins in a variety of different roles (CM, AM, LW, SS). Not easy to assess beyond him being unable to force his way into the Lazio team.

https://fbref.com/en/players/6639e500/Andreas-Pereira

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/andreas-pereira/leistungsdaten/spieler/203394/plus/0?saison=2020
 
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golden_blunder

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You remember when everyone was crazy about seeing him in the first team?
Then we did and he was crap.
There is a huge gulf between reserve/underage football and the first team for a PL top club