Andrey Santos | 2026/27 Performances

There's a reason pre-season Pirlo is a thing. Big difference in intensity.

But I believe he'll come good. He needs time, he's not the finished article yet.

But we knew that. As a backup he's fine. Baleba will be the starter when he's fit.
 
Highfather_24 said:
There's a reason pre-season Pirlo is a thing. Big difference in intensity.

But I believe he'll come good. He needs time, he's not the finished article yet.

But we knew that. As a backup he's fine. Baleba will be the starter when he's fit.
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The concern for me is he played the whole of pre-season and looked miles off the pace. He should have been the one that looked the sharpest.
 
Lash said:
The concern for me is he played the whole of pre-season and looked miles off the pace. He should have been the one that looked the sharpest.
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Tielemans didn't though and when you are trying to hold the fort on your own it's pretty impossible
 
Highfather_24 said:
There's a reason pre-season Pirlo is a thing. Big difference in intensity.

But I believe he'll come good. He needs time, he's not the finished article yet.

But we knew that. As a backup he's fine. Baleba will be the starter when he's fit.
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Apparently baleva might not be available until after the October International break. He is also coming off the back of a really poor season so the idea he comes back and is immediately first choice and playing to a high standard seems very optimistic.

I find this signing very odd. We paid 50m for a him and he doesn't have the mobility we needed and it's hard to see he has a high ceiling. I watched quite a few of the Chelsea games he played in last season and thought very little of him, he wasn't terrible but also didn't stand out in any way. Compare it to mainoo when he back into the team last season and within a couple of weeks he was amongst the best players kn the team in some big games
 
Lash said:
Agreed, I don't think they married well at all.
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I;d argue Santos/Tielemans is our worst possible combination in CM.

Santos looks to be a pure holder - needs a mobile ball player next to him. Santos will come good - I can see the logic in signing him.
 
VP89 said:
Tielemans didn't though and when you are trying to hold the fort on your own it's pretty impossible
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This is a very valid point. Also, we will see how Mainoo operates with different partners than Casemiro. Maybe it turns out he's actually not slow when not paired with players who turn like a cruise ship.

That said, both Tielemans and Santos look quite slow.

Craig Ward said:
I;d argue Santos/Tielemans is our worst possible combination in CM.

Santos looks to be a pure holder - needs a mobile ball player next to him. Santos will come good - I can see the logic in signing him.
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He does look like a pure holder, although I am not sure if we needed one (at least not for this season). But I guess we've already concluded he's one for the future.
 
Looked like a slug against Hull. However he was surrounded by players who were also sluggish and had very little about them.

Looked like a team playing a dead rubber at the end of a season. Really poor preparation.

Debut to forget, but given everyone else was just as bad, difficult to draw any conclusions.
 
Craig Ward said:
I;d argue Santos/Tielemans is our worst possible combination in CM.

Santos looks to be a pure holder - needs a mobile ball player next to him. Santos will come good - I can see the logic in signing him.
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I though it might balance out, but I thought Santos was a bit more mobile than what I've seen, but that's not the case.

I like Santos, but again, I don't really see Mainoo as a partner for him and I'm not sure Tielemans is now. Baleba will be perfect along side, but then we have to fit Tielemans and Mainoo in somewhere. I don't see any team being less physical than Hull, so we're gonna have to find a solution quick.
 
I don’t see what the plan is with Santos. He’s clearly a long way from being a first team starter at this level. I wonder what we promised him in regards to game time?
 
Is it just me or he looks chubby, almost feels like he has a double chin. He needs to improve his fitness. It seems unprofessional of him to be unfit, despite being available throughout the pre-season.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
Is it just me or he looks chubby, almost feels like he has a double chin. He needs to improve his fitness. It seems unprofessional of him to be unfit, despite being available throughout the pre-season.
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You are not allowed to say that.
But yes he does. Like Anderson after he discovered the McD in Manchester
 
The problem with him is, he does not really have any great trait as a CM, he is not a grass eating high intensity player like Baleba. He is not a great passer, not a great tackler, he can not run with the ball nor can he dribble with the ball. He is just average at everything. He should be fourth choice midfielder behind Mainoo, Baleba and Tielmans.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
The problem with him is, he does not really have any great trait as a CM, he is not a grass eating high intensity player like Baleba. He is not a great passer, not a great tackler, he can not run with the ball nor can he dribble with the ball. He is just average at everything. He should be fourth choice midfielder behind Mainoo, Baleba and Tielmans.
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Seems like a bargain for 50m then
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
The problem with him is, he does not really have any great trait as a CM, he is not a grass eating high intensity player like Baleba. He is not a great passer, not a great tackler, he can not run with the ball nor can he dribble with the ball. He is just average at everything. He should be fourth choice midfielder behind Mainoo, Baleba and Tielmans.
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This. Add the fact that he shows no ambition at all on the pitch. Invisiible.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
The problem with him is, he does not really have any great trait as a CM, he is not a grass eating high intensity player like Baleba. He is not a great passer, not a great tackler, he can not run with the ball nor can he dribble with the ball. He is just average at everything. He should be fourth choice midfielder behind Mainoo, Baleba and Tielmans.
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And all of this based on one game. Interesting.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
Could have gotten Sangare for 41M. Would have been a better signing in my opinion.
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Well, this is something that was mentioned last season.. the quality of our recruitment and scouting. Again, ask the big man running our squad selection, Jason Wilcox, now one of the most powerful people at Old Trafford.

What a joke.
 
flameinthesun said:
I don't think its that simple. Rooney used to take ages to get up to speed. Tielemans, Bruno and Cunha had maybe 90mins or 120mins of pre-season football? Either way its a poor result but its much more important the next couple of weeks. We will see if its a fitness thing or if there are deeper problems.
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Rooney scored a hat-trick in his debut for United and scored eight goals in the first game of seasons. He is third on the all-time list. He’s definitely not someone who takes ages to get up to speed.
 
Jeffthered said:
This. Add the fact that he shows no ambition at all on the pitch. Invisiible.
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I know a lot of the people will jump on my post and say give him more time and I am all for giving time to new signings. However, Its just a simple question that I do not see any attribute in him which I would love to have in a CM. Compare him to Tielmans at least he is good with passing and shooting. Mainoo with Dribbling and close control, Baleba with running with the ball, tackling etc.

If he is a fourth choice player, then fine I am okay with him being that limited. However, then should we have spent 50M on our 4th choice player?
 
Trigestis said:
And all of this based on one game. Interesting.
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I have watched him in pre-season as well. He will not magically become Scholes and develop Passing ability. Or turn into Kante next match will he? He just lacks basic attributes which are essential in a CM. I do not blame him honestly, the blame lies with recruitment and scouting what exact attributes did they see in him to think he can work as a CM in PL.
 
I missed the game, did he play poorly?

Trying to make sense of this. Everyone here seems to say he was poor but also reading elsewhere it also sounds like he was maybe our best player on the day aside from Lammens.

His stats looked solid and the 'every touch' clip also seemed reasonable in the context of a team playing poorly - did he do something especially wrong?
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
I have watched him in pre-season as well. He will not magically become Scholes and develop Passing ability. Or turn into Kante next match will he? He just lacks basic attributes which are essential in a CM. I do not blame him honestly, the blame lies with recruitment and scouting what exact attributes did they see in him to think he can work as a CM in PL.
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His passing is fine for a CM, and he was still in the top percentile for line breaking passes even last season and showed great potential with it this pre-season. No idea what you were watching.

If he just "lacks basic attributes that are essential in a CM" he would never have been considered a huge Brazilian CM talent or Ligue 1 Team of the Year player as a midfielder.

You have literally watched one professional game of him and arriving to conclusions already. Seriously?
 
Garethw said:
I don’t see what the plan is with Santos. He’s clearly a long way from being a first team starter at this level. I wonder what we promised him in regards to game time?
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Hopefully we don’t promise any player anything when it comes to game time.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
The problem with him is, he does not really have any great trait as a CM, he is not a grass eating high intensity player like Baleba. He is not a great passer, not a great tackler, he can not run with the ball nor can he dribble with the ball. He is just average at everything. He should be fourth choice midfielder behind Mainoo, Baleba and Tielmans.
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What a description :lol:
 
Thing is, if you don’t have physicality, mobility or defensive dominance, then you have to be really good in other areas of the game. Otherwise you’re left with those really annoying mid at all, master of none players who merely keep things ticking and little else. Hopefully he can show those qualities soon.
 
From the little I’ve seen of him, I think he’ll maybe be the utility player in our midfield. The one who is able to pair with everybody else but not an ultimate starting player. So if Baleba is injured or off form he’ll come in to pair with either Mainoo or Tielemans, likewise if both of those are missing he will step in alongside Baleba.

I think his biggest strength is reading the game (without being elite at this yet) and proactively cutting out passing lanes, while himself passing quickly through the middle. Whereas he’s good at the later, I wonder if he overdoes it due to being unable to switch play from side to side to open up the game. Due to that limitation he’s a bit predictable as he is not very fast and can’t run with the ball, neither is he strong as to be able to shield it from pressure, so his first thought is to pass it on short usually forward and through the middle.

He’s definitely an interesting player but I think that lack of physicality and passing range might hold him back, but he’s only 21 so lots of room to develop. I don’t think Casemiro has the passing range at his age and I thought he was fairly good at it in his 30s.
 
I think as a group of fans we're so used to blaming the midfield to the point that with any bad result, we automatically blame them. Neither Santos nor Tielemans are physical beasts, but they controlled the centre of the pitch without much fuss, even with Tielemans clearly unfit (probably a bit more to do with Hull letting us have it).

Apart from that comical McMessi moment, we didn't get carved open through the middle with transitions as we've had to suffer in the past, we were not overrun at any point, they both had a very high number of passes and a very high pass percentage, ending with us having 71% possession or something wild. Now I'm not saying they were great by the way, but the job was done in midfield.

Granted, they're not Casemiro-level monsters in both boxes, but not many are, as that's not a midfielder's primary job. We got done by set pieces, and other than that, all the Hull City threat came from the wide positions. We also had to deal with a reshuffled, dysfunctional forward line which offered no threat.

Santos, from what I've seen, is not an all action player. He takes good defensive positions, blocking spaces in midfield, and plays a simple but very effective game which is easy to overlook or even deride when we have poor games - a bit like his manager.
 
BarryWinks said:
From the little I’ve seen of him, I think he’ll maybe be the utility player in our midfield. The one who is able to pair with everybody else but not an ultimate starting player. So if Baleba is injured or off form he’ll come in to pair with either Mainoo or Tielemans, likewise if both of those are missing he will step in alongside Baleba.

I think his biggest strength is reading the game (without being elite at this yet) and proactively cutting out passing lanes, while himself passing quickly through the middle. Whereas he’s good at the later, I wonder if he overdoes it due to being unable to switch play from side to side to open up the game. Due to that limitation he’s a bit predictable as he is not very fast and can’t run with the ball, neither is he strong as to be able to shield it from pressure, so his first thought is to pass it on short usually forward and through the middle.

He’s definitely an interesting player but I think that lack of physicality and passing range might hold him back, but he’s only 21 so lots of room to develop. I don’t think Casemiro has the passing range at his age and I thought he was fairly good at it in his 30s.
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Casemiro was always very solid as the deepest midfielder (DM, #6, holding whatever we call him). He was difficult to dribble past, never the quickest around but very strong in duels, also effective at tackles. Even in his last seasons with us you could see that. I don't see that yet with Santos. The bolded part is what people "say" about Santos, but yet to be seen. A few games played at walking pace mean the holding midfielder will always look like he's in "right place right time", even if we put Zirkzee there. Whenever the game was played faster, Santos was not even bad, just nowhere to be seen. But, to be honest, this was mostly last 2 games where Andrey and Tielemans combined into clusterfeck of a midfield duo (not entirely their fault, definitely not Santos fault).

Passing wise I see a lot of similarities between Casemiro and Santos, no complaints here. He was probably nervous but he saw passing options and tried to execute them, I think this will be fine. It's the defensive part of the game I am worried about, from what I have seen in pre-season and vs Hull (very limited of course) he looks weak in duels.
 
He suits a 3 man midfield. As do all our CM's. It's a conundrum for Carrick.

Keep in mind with the Casemiro comparisons, he had the luxury of playing next to two other CM's most of his career.
 
Marwood said:
He suits a 3 man midfield. As do all our CM's. It's a conundrum for Carrick.

Keep in mind with the Casemiro comparisons, he had the luxury of playing next to two other CM's most of his career.
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Saying players suit a 3 man midfield, means they aren’t good enough.
 
Marwood said:
Possibly. Although I think they're all good players they are all lacking something.

But did Casemiro not suit a 3 man midfield?
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The problem is one which I’ve been saying all summer - you get these players who are all very different. People were saying that they compliment each other, well they do when you look at them as a three or a four. But actually we need players who are good enough to play in a two, not those who are lacking so much that you need an additional player.

What midfielder doesn’t suit a three? It’s about being good enough to play in a two.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
The problem is one which I’ve been saying all summer - you get these players who are all very different. People were saying that they compliment each other, well they do when you look at them as a three or a four. But actually we need players who are good enough to play in a two, not those who are lacking so much that you need an additional player.

What midfielder doesn’t suit a three? It’s about being good enough to play in a two.
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Agree with you.

If you play with a proper No.10 as we do the two CM's need to be very rounded players. Which ours aren't.

People saying Baleba has to play but that means two of our central three(Baleba and Bruno) are pretty loose in possession. I don't think that works.

But at the same time there are certain types of midfielders who can be very good but belong in a 3. Casemiro is probably the best example. I think Darren Fletcher was another.
 
Marwood said:
Agree with you.

If you play with a proper No.10 as we do the two CM's need to be very rounded players. Which ours aren't.

People saying Baleba has to play but that means two of our central three(Baleba and Bruno) are pretty loose in possession. I don't think that works.

But at the same time there are certain types of midfielders who can be very good but belong in a 3. Casemiro is probably the best example. I think Darren Fletcher was another.
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Which is why the solution might be to move away from a traditional 10
 
Lyng said:
Which is why the solution might be to move away from a traditional 10
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We have hardly played with traditional No 10 though , Bruno play is closer to support striker than a proper no 10 anyway I agree with the sentiment we need to move towards proper midfield 3 .
 
Seems odd to me to sign a player as part of a midfield re-build who doesn't seem to pair well with anyone else. I think him with Mainoo would be no better. In fact, I'm not even sure Mainoo and Tielemans would work either to be honest. Whos doing the running.
 
The problem as we've seen this weekend in the PL, its a chaotic league. Games will be more end to end now due to the rule changes, the speed the ball needs to be back in play, they've really done all they can to ensure teams won't be able to control games and control possession and therefore dictate the tempo. Turnovers are going to be higher than ever this season, It makes players like Santos difficult to select IMO, due to his physical limitations. The recruitment team have gone for profiles of players that don't match where the league is going which is end to end, I mentioned it last week on the Wilcox thread about his decision making, I think we'll regret our summer acquisitions and we'll need another rebuild next summer.
 
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