Andrey Santos

One observation on Chelsea and Madrid boards is that, in both cases, their fanbases are strongly against the transfers we're exploring at the figures proposed.

As always, the sentiment is not universal, but their fans generally do not want their clubs to do these deals.

Seems most Chelsea fans (including those here) think Santos is both a decent player today and has a high ceiling. Lots of Chelsea fans quoting much higher fees.

As for Real boards, seems like a lot of people are concerned about the Makelele effect and think Tchoua is the only MF they have really capable of defensive dominance today, with no obvious new signing to replace that impact. Lots of resistance to the idea of him leaving.
 
Smores said:
How many games do we struggle to break a low block down, it's fine playing simple balls forward but as we progress we need more technical passing ability in the team.
Click to expand...
There are many ways to break down a defence.

The whole low block / progressive passes trope isn’t quite the check mate it’s portrayed as on the Caf.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
But he still got relegated, he was in the league for a few years surely he could have consolidated them? You are picking and choosing what is good and what is not.
Click to expand...

He's widely regarded as the best manager in their history, as with Dortmund and one of Liverpool's greatest, by far their best in the Premier League era.

Carrick hasn't achieved anything as a manager yet. He may well go on to be a good manager, he could just as easily be out of a job in 12 months.

It's daft even comparing them at this point.
 
CasaStreets said:
One observation on Chelsea and Madrid boards is that, in both cases, their fanbases are strongly against the transfers we're exploring at the figures proposed.

As always, the sentiment is not universal, but their fans generally do not want their clubs to do these deals.

Seems most Chelsea fans (including those here) think Santos is both a decent player today and has a high ceiling. Lots of Chelsea fans quoting much higher fees.

As for Real boards, seems like a lot of people are concerned about the Makelele effect and think Tchoua is the only MF they have really capable of defensive dominance today, with no obvious new signing to replace that impact. Lots of resistance to the idea of him leaving.
Click to expand...

Both would be really good signings.

If Santos had played for West Ham last season he'd have been first choice, much like Fernandes and for some weird reason people would have been more comfortable signing him.
 
MaMa given red said:
He's widely regarded as the best manager in their history, as with Dortmund and one of Liverpool's greatest, by far their best in the Premier League era.

Carrick hasn't achieved anything as a manager yet. He may well go on to be a good manager, he could just as easily be out of a job in 12 months.

It's daft even comparing them at this point.
Click to expand...
At the time of comparing Klopp at Mainz to current Carrick, Klopp was no better.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
At the time of comparing Klopp at Mainz to current Carrick, Klopp was no better.
Click to expand...

He was miles better, he actually achieved something with Mainz. He got them promoted and kept them punching above their weight in the top league for a few years.

Carrick didn't do anything at Middlesbrough. This such a bad argument :lol:
 
ron86 said:
Klopp done a lot more at mainz than Carrick has ever done as a manager. Boro didn't think he was good enough for them. Klopp was a hero at mainz
Click to expand...
MaMa given red said:
He was miles better, he actually achieved something with Mainz. He got them promoted and kept them punching above their weight in the top league for a few years.

Carrick didn't do anything at Middlesbrough. This such a bad argument :lol:
Click to expand...

He got them promoted by finishing 3rd, then he finished 11th in the Bundesliga the next season. They then finished 16th and got relegated. How is staying up in Bundesliga for 1 season 'kept them punching above their weight for a few years'. As soon as he got relegated he left and they were back to where they started.

Promotion from the Championship in this time period where a lot of clubs have a lot of money, is much tougher than promotion to the Bundesliga.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
He got them promoted by finishing 3rd, then he finished 11th in the Bundesliga the next season. They then finished 16th and got relegated. How is staying up in Bundesliga for 1 season 'kept them punching above their weight for a few years'. As soon as he got relegated he left and they were back to where they started.

Promotion from the Championship in this time period where a lot of clubs have a lot of money, is much tougher than promotion to the Bundesliga.
Click to expand...

So did he do better, the same as, or worse than Carrick then?
 
Mentioned already but I have seen a lot of Chelsea fan saying they don’t want to lose him.
 
I think this signing is in the mould of Lammens and Dorgu. Young high potential ready to break through player on reasonable fees and wages?
 
MaMa given red said:
He was miles better, he actually achieved something with Mainz. He got them promoted and kept them punching above their weight in the top league for a few years.

Carrick didn't do anything at Middlesbrough. This such a bad argument :lol:
Click to expand...
Mainz had never played in the German top flight before Klopp's arrival. Klopp was fantastic at Mainz where he created history by getting the club into the German top flight for the first time in their history. He made that Mainz team punch way above their weight and it was always going to be a enormous task to keep them in the German top flight.
 
NoPace said:
Carrick was pretty big. Helpful at DM.

I agree with Fernandes, but my guess is to get someone even at 90% of Scholes level on the ball we're gonna need to convert a 10, as happened with Scholes or Kroos. If you're that good on the ball, you're probably a 10 as a youngster at youth levels and then when you do start playing top level it's often as a 10 (or out wide) because of a lack of experience defensively and their coaches want them to create, so give them freer roles.
Click to expand...
I think our marquee signing will be the #6. And the prospect would be the #8. If its Tchoumeni and Stiller, I would be very happy. But I do think we need that playmaker in there. Like you said, former #10s fit that profile, even Modric and Eriksen. If PSG sign a new midfielder, I would be looking at their sub bench. Ruiz might be good short term deal.
 
Mitten I think said on TOTD that Santos is the future for brasil at no6 and a very smart player.
 
ron86 said:
But the boro board still didn't think he was good enough or they wouldn't have sacked him
Click to expand...
Just like Kompany getting relegated with Burnley, then they sacked him. The Burnley board didn't think he was good enough or they wouldn't have sacked him.

Remind me, which club does he manage now?
 
ron86 said:
Klopp done a lot more at mainz than Carrick has ever done as a manager. Boro didn't think he was good enough for them. Klopp was a hero at mainz
Click to expand...
Nagelsmann was more impressive than both.

What's the point of debating this nonsense, its clearly flawed (and in the wrong thread)
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Just like Kompany getting relegated with Burnley, then they sacked him. The Burnley board didn't think he was good enough or they wouldn't have sacked him.

Remind me, which club does he manage now?
Click to expand...
Except Burnley never sacked Kompany, they agreed he could leave when Bayern came in for him. Try getting your facts right.
Anyway, this is the Santos thread, I'm not arguing with someone about whether Carrick is better than Klopp
 
Last edited:
What I will say though is he has those sort of chubby hamster cheeks casemiro had so I am fully on board with this signing.
 
Ruud_Street said:
One of Santos’ strengths, is his ability to move the ball forward quickly. I’d say if United are targeting him, that’s one of the reasons why.
Click to expand...
Exactly and that was one of my points when I asked the other poster if they were under that impression. Santos is much more than just a young destroyer and reminds me a lot of how Essien was, he has a high ceiling and will only improve.
Smores said:
How many games do we struggle to break a low block down, it's fine playing simple balls forward but as we progress we need more technical passing ability in the team. You can't just rely on Bruno spamming creativity, yeah he's great at it but it's easier to mark out of a game.

Think I'd prefer Santos to Tchouameni as the fee would be more justifiable. We can try for a solid midfield and add later but at some point we will need someone with actual progressive passing ability.
Click to expand...
You realise that breaking down a low block isn’t just in creative passing and defence splitting balls right ? Winning the ball and getting it forward quickly before the opposition can regroup is also an important method and that’s where we also massively struggle.

The reason why we need plsyers like Santos and Tchouameni is so when players like Mainoo or Ederson drive forward with the ball we’re not exposed for a counter which with Casemiro we were and Ugarte playing meant we were weak and slow on the ball with him only managing sideways or safe balls.

Both of Santos and Tchouameni have the stamina and positional sense to cover any gaps in midfield created by Mainoo or Ederson driving forward whilst also being able to play quick passes forward themselves as well as breaking up play and releasing the ball quick to stop any regroup from the opposition, it’s why Carrick himself publicly said a midfielder for us needs to be more of an all rounder which both Santos and Tchouameni are.
 
davidmichael said:
Exactly and that was one of my points when I asked the other poster if they were under that impression. Santos is much more than just a young destroyer and reminds me a lot of how Essien was, he has a high ceiling and will only improve.

You realise that breaking down a low block isn’t just in creative passing and defence splitting balls right ? Winning the ball and getting it forward quickly before the opposition can regroup is also an important method and that’s where we also massively struggle.

The reason why we need plsyers like Santos and Tchouameni is so when players like Mainoo or Ederson drive forward with the ball we’re not exposed for a counter which with Casemiro we were and Ugarte playing meant we were weak and slow on the ball with him only managing sideways or safe balls.

Both of Santos and Tchouameni have the stamina and positional sense to cover any gaps in midfield created by Mainoo or Ederson driving forward whilst also being able to play quick passes forward themselves as well as breaking up play and releasing the ball quick to stop any regroup from the opposition, it’s why Carrick himself publicly said a midfielder for us needs to be more of an all rounder which both Santos and Tchouameni are.
Click to expand...

Firstly they're not close to being all rounders they're just not. They're defensive midfielders who pick up the ball and lay it off with relatively simple passes, that's the extent of their role currently (slightly less so with Santos). Can they sometimes play more progressively? Sure

To your first point it's not the only means but the quickest way to counter is a pass breaking the lines. If you need to first pass it sidewards and forwards to get to your creative player who can make the pass (Bruno) then it gives time for the opposition to set. I've seen Madrid fans specifically call that out as a fault of Tchouameni for instance, he's slow and safe at times so it kills attacks.

I do think Ederson might suprise people on this. I didn't see much of him last season but the previous season I did and he often played decent passes through the lines to the wide players.

As a fan base we've been devoid of midfield creativity for so long now I think some have forgot its importance.
 
Smores said:
Firstly they're not close to being all rounders they're just not. They're defensive midfielders who pick up the ball and lay it off with relatively simple passes, that's the extent of their role currently (slightly less so with Santos). Can they sometimes play more progressively? Sure

To your first point it's not the only means but the quickest way to counter is a pass breaking the lines. If you need to first pass it sidewards and forwards to get to your creative player who can make the pass (Bruno) then it gives time for the opposition to set. I've seen Madrid fans specifically call that out as a fault of Tchouameni for instance, he's slow and safe at times so it kills attacks.

I do think Ederson might suprise people on this. I didn't see much of him last season but the previous season I did and he often played decent passes through the lines to the wide players.

As a fan base we've been devoid of midfield creativity for so long now I think some have forgot its importance.
Click to expand...


"I saw a singular Real Madrid fan say this on redcafe, therefore it must be true.."
 
dinostar77 said:
Mitten I think said on TOTD that Santos is the future for brasil at no6 and a very smart player.
Click to expand...

Rather than just take last season in microcosm and use that to form our entire opinion on a player, if you look at base skillets like his passing stats for last season they're outstanding (better than Fernandes or Anderson). Previous scouting reports and his profile as a youth player also point towards much more of the 6/8 hybrid type player we were targeting with Anderson and Fernandes as well. At Strasbourg he was known for late runs into the box and scoring very frequently, so if you look at all the data and his profile all the way up to last season I think there's a huge amount of potential that simply wasn't used for his role at Chelsea last year.

I think he's a very interesting prospect and well worth the outlay if Chelsea are asking around the £40-50m mark. Even if he continues at the level and in the role he was last season we won't lose a great deal (if anything at all) on that pricetag. If he's available and we can also sign someone like Tchouameni to come straight in and take up that number 6 position being vacated by Case he's an absolute no-brainer as a midfield recruit, one we can use now but also develop into something much, much more.
 
Smores said:
Firstly they're not close to being all rounders they're just not. They're defensive midfielders who pick up the ball and lay it off with relatively simple passes, that's the extent of their role currently (slightly less so with Santos). Can they sometimes play more progressively? Sure

To your first point it's not the only means but the quickest way to counter is a pass breaking the lines. If you need to first pass it sidewards and forwards to get to your creative player who can make the pass (Bruno) then it gives time for the opposition to set. I've seen Madrid fans specifically call that out as a fault of Tchouameni for instance, he's slow and safe at times so it kills attacks.

I do think Ederson might suprise people on this. I didn't see much of him last season but the previous season I did and he often played decent passes through the lines to the wide players.

As a fan base we've been devoid of midfield creativity for so long now I think some have forgot its importance.
Click to expand...
You’ve just said it yourself that it’s the extent of their roles CURRENTLY as that’s what’s asked of them, pre Real as can be seen Tchouameni showed he’s actually a better passer than some claim him to be and was often compared to Pogba so much like the likes of Casemiro and Yaya Toure showed when they came to the PL from La Liga as there’s not as much reliance on technical ability in the PL as there is in La Liga as the PL is a far more physical league.
 
Mainoo is going to be the one sitting alongside whoever partners him. Thats why I think Santos is a good signing. He can get up and down and is a threat arriving into the box. Him and Ederson both can do the same job or play together with Santos less physical but more of a creative threat.

I would assume we will go in for Bouaddi or Baleba or someone like that for the second 6 when Tchou/Real inevitably price us out of a move and that's the rebuild. Not very exciting but hopefully functional and a set of players who can really grow at the club
 
Ali Dia said:
Mainoo is going to be the one sitting alongside whoever partners him. Thats why I think Santos is a good signing. He can get up and down and is a threat arriving into the box. Him and Ederson both can do the same job or play together with Santos less physical but more of a creative threat.

I would assume we will go in for Bouaddi or Baleba or someone like that for the second 6 when Tchou/Real inevitably price us out of a move and that's the rebuild. Not very exciting but hopefully functional and a set of players who can really grow at the club
Click to expand...
I expect this too, but i think it'll be Sangare at the end of the window.
 
We should play a bit hard ball, like they did with Garnacho, 35m with sell on would be good for us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.