Andy Mitten column: At Manchester United, things are very bad – and could get worse

Lynty

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Everyone just getting carried away now. Couple of signings could make make a positive difference but nobody wants to talk about that.
Your right. But how many bad signings do we usually have to make before we find those 'couple of signings to... make a positive difference'?

Our track record in the market is abysmal, hence our squad is bloated with mediocrity and players who wish to be elsewhere. So we could try our luck on a few more signings that could improve us, even though past experience tells us that it'll likely be more disappointments filling the squad. Or we clear the deadwood, address the root cause of the problem and then look for those 'couple of signings'.

The problem is, everyone knew this in September/October but now we are 1 weekend away from the season finishing and we don't look like we have any game plan or transfer strategy prepared for next year. That's why people are getting carried away.
 

Revaulx

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Nah fcuk that. We can be successful regardless of the Glazers.
We should be able to. Liverpool are doing OK under American owners who “don’t understand football” are in it for the money.

The only difference is that FSG employ good people and the Glazers don’t.
 

Hamadovich86

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Ugh this is true, Wolves in particular under their current manager look really bright. If they manage to reinforce they could be a big problem for us and omg I cant believe I just typed that.

Whats worrying for me is that we have yet to see signs of change in the way the club is run, its too soon to judge before the transfer window but honestly theres no reason to be optimistic. After last year's shambolic window I was extremely pessimistic about the season and it turned out to be even worse. I need to see signs of progress off the pitch to be optimistic about our future on the pitch. I think its a massive job, I know Ole and Phelan will give their all but I dont know if they will be given the required support by Woodward and co.
 

RoyH1

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Parein my ignorance, but how connected is this journalist? The bit he said about the dressing room, is he just repeating what someone else wrote or?
 

LuisNaniencia

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Your right. But how many bad signings do we usually have to make before we find those 'couple of signings to... make a positive difference'?

Our track record in the market is abysmal, hence our squad is bloated with mediocrity and players who wish to be elsewhere. So we could try our luck on a few more signings that could improve us, even though past experience tells us that it'll likely be more disappointments filling the squad. Or we clear the deadwood, address the root cause of the problem and then look for those 'couple of signings'.

The problem is, everyone knew this in September/October but now we are 1 weekend away from the season finishing and we don't look like we have any game plan or transfer strategy prepared for next year. That's why people are getting carried away.
Mourinho's first 2 seasons he improved us over the summer. Pogba, Zlatan, Matic. It was a short term fix and didn't go far enough but that's Mourinho for you. If Ole gets rid of 5 players that have shown a shit attitude and gets in 3-5 who will fight for the badge every game we will improve. It's all a bit hysterical right now and the media love it.
 

edgar allan

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Chelsea have much better squad depth, even if they choose not to use it. But yes they will struggle for top 4 without hazard.
Arsenal are screwed if they don't spend, I agree.
If Spurs keep hold of everyone but Erikson (who looks likely to go) and add 1-2 options (surely they will after last year), they'll still be in a great position to make top 4.

The problem are the teams behind us. Wolves and their Mendez connection are in a great position to capitalise on the mess at Old Trafford, the Bridge and the Emirates. So are Everton to a lesser extent.

We should be aiming for top 4, but I truly believe United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton and Wolves will be neck and neck for the final spot next season.
I would add Leicester to that list
 

Moiraine

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Ole has a couple of league titles with Molde and so it is not like we have just appointed Rio as manager with zero experience.
I Closely followed Molde once Ole was appointed Manager. One of those first two titles he won at Molde, they were like 20 odd points behind and caught up right at the end of the season. It was an inspired Victory, the team started really badly but Ole somehow turned it around. I doubt anything like that happening at United. I can't seem to come up a super-superlative degree of the word "Baffled", which I am still to that moment that how our team lost their run, form, passion and all the confidence that we had until the match against Arsenal. This should be postmortemed and culprits should be thrown out of the club.

But that is just my wishful thinking, I don't see any serious effort being made by our fecking CEO.

If, the club does decide to fix things, they might not be able to get ideal personnel for DOF. That is my biggest worry.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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everything is so doom & gloom around the club at the moment.

these articles pretty much rehash the same rhetoric; truth is the club has closed ranks to the press from a high level so i don’t read anything as it’s generally sourced through a leak - & peaks generally tend not to have the best interests of the club.

i’m reserving all judgment till august; we’ve fell so far that things need to change or the cash cow will stop generating cash.

i have a suspicion things will change, cause they have to. will that mean titles, i dunno but aside the top 2, there’s room to close the gap & generate one if we play this right.
 

sunama

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Given how poor we have been since Paris, I honestly don’t see how we can hope to achieve much beyond mid table next season. Smalling, Jones, Young, Rojo and Co will still be here. That is the stark reality.
My prediction is mid table, and Ole fired in 2019.
Jones, Smalling & Co, had their contracts renewed to save money. It's pretty obvious.
Back in Summer 2018, when Woodie lied about why he didn't buy more players (because Jose's targets were not viable), the truth was that he wanted to save money.
If in doubt, follow the money and that will answer the question.

Someone will need to fact check this, but my understanding is that our net spend for the last 3 transfer windows has been around £60M, which is absolutely shocking. Where have all the company profits been going? Into the Glazers' pockets.
If fans say, "I don't want us to spend money", you are indirectly saying that you want that money to into the pockets of the Glazers.

Jose had to be fired, as he simply wasn't interested anymore. His ambition was not matched by Woodward's, so he had to go. But when we fired the serial winner, this told me all I need to know. Top 4 is the aim, while spending as little as possible and promoting as much youth as possible (to save money).
If fans want us to win trophies, they need to get Woodward out of the club. His ego will never allow us to move forward.
 

sunama

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i’m reserving all judgment till august; we’ve fell so far that things need to change or the cash cow will stop generating cash.
People keep saying this. We have been "falling" for 7 years and our profits are going from strength to strength.
Your theory does relate to reality. We can keep finishing in 4th/5th place and our profits will keep on rising, as has been the case for the last 7 years.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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People keep saying this. We have been "falling" for 7 years and our profits are going from strength to strength.
Your theory does relate to reality. We can keep finishing in 4th/5th place and our profits will keep on rising, as has been the case for the last 7 years.
i’ll be the first to say my feelings are generally assumptions.

i just think with the ‘populist ‘ rise of liverpool & growing financial clout of other teams we’ll need success or the lustre will fade.

the whole noodle partnerships & innovative streams are being exploited now by our rivals & i think the prem bubble is primed to burst.

at the core of it though; we have a newly appointed manager who is yet to sign a player so i’ll give him time.
 

LonelyFire

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We should be able to. Liverpool are doing OK under American owners who “don’t understand football” are in it for the money.

The only difference is that FSG employ good people and the Glazers don’t.
Question - how much money have FSG taken out of Liverpool since the takeover? I believe it is none. How much have the glazers taken out of Utd in that same time? Fortunes.

feck all to do with just good people. They have a fundamentally different objective to what the glazers do.
 

Revaulx

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Question - how much money have FSG taken out of Liverpool since the takeover? I believe it is none. How much have the glazers taken out of Utd in that same time? Fortunes.

feck all to do with just good people. They have a fundamentally different objective to what the glazers do.
Hard to compare. Liverpool were loss making in FSG's early years. The losses came about as a result of paying interest on leveraged debt, which is the same as at United.

What is interesting is that both clubs' gross spend over the last five years is very similar. Liverpool's net spend is massively lower, thanks to them reaping the financial benefits of good past recruitment (Suarez, Coutinho). United's net spend is far higher as they have to get rid of past mistakes at a loss.
 

LonelyFire

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Hard to compare. Liverpool were loss making in FSG's early years. The losses came about as a result of paying interest on leveraged debt, which is the same as at United.

What is interesting is that both clubs' gross spend over the last five years is very similar. Liverpool's net spend is massively lower, thanks to them reaping the financial benefits of good past recruitment (Suarez, Coutinho). United's net spend is far higher as they have to get rid of past mistakes at a loss.
Not disputing the 2nd part but don’t agree hard to compare. I’m saying glazers do not have the same objectives as FSG - one is making decisions based on football and the other continues to run the club as a piggy bank.

We can talk about Woodward and co. all we like but they are in place because they are delivering what the owners truly want - money. Nothing will change at Utd until those lecherous bastards are gone.
 

Needham

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...and to compound how bad they are, we're the only "top 6" team without a major final coming up.
 

john moran

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Hard to compare. Liverpool were loss making in FSG's early years. The losses came about as a result of paying interest on leveraged debt, which is the same as at United.

What is interesting is that both clubs' gross spend over the last five years is very similar. Liverpool's net spend is massively lower, thanks to them reaping the financial benefits of good past recruitment (Suarez, Coutinho). United's net spend is far higher as they have to get rid of past mistakes at a loss.
Exactly . The Glaziers are a vulture fund and they placed a vulture capitalist banker in charge . The only hope for UTD is that an offer from Saudi will be just too good to resist to the vultures especially if they think things might start going sour for them
 

Esquire

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I Closely followed Molde once Ole was appointed Manager. One of those first two titles he won at Molde, they were like 20 odd points behind and caught up right at the end of the season. It was an inspired Victory, the team started really badly but Ole somehow turned it around. I doubt anything like that happening at United. I can't seem to come up a super-superlative degree of the word "Baffled", which I am still to that moment that how our team lost their run, form, passion and all the confidence that we had until the match against Arsenal. This should be postmortemed and culprits should be thrown out of the club.

But that is just my wishful thinking, I don't see any serious effort being made by our fecking CEO.

If, the club does decide to fix things, they might not be able to get ideal personnel for DOF. That is my biggest worry.
Can you please let us know what style of football was played by Molde under Ole? Competition is all relative of course but interested to know if Molde for example pressed like we did when we were on that hot streak. What was Molde’s fitness levels vis a vis rest of the league?
 

Esquire

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Not disputing the 2nd part but don’t agree hard to compare. I’m saying glazers do not have the same objectives as FSG - one is making decisions based on football and the other continues to run the club as a piggy bank.

We can talk about Woodward and co. all we like but they are in place because they are delivering what the owners truly want - money. Nothing will change at Utd until those lecherous bastards are gone.
For me, Glazers are anathema not because they are profiting. They are the owners and making money and increasing asset value is of course their right. What is perplexing they must surely realise is that they can’t keep going on this current model because the product itself is losing value and we need a drastic change management.
 

mitchmouse

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Pretty much spot-on (and I think I remember hearing Mitten is a United fan). I said in July that the club was in a total mess and once again next season we'l be as likely to relegated as we are to win the title. Need a massive clear out - and not just the players
 

LonelyFire

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For me, Glazers are anathema not because they are profiting. They are the owners and making money and increasing asset value is of course their right. What is perplexing they must surely realise is that they can’t keep going on this current model because the product itself is losing value and we need a drastic change management.
Club value has not decreased per se. They bought the club for approx. 750m and are rumoured to be quoting 3.5bn for a sale. They are in the exact position they want to be.
 

Esquire

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Club value has not decreased per se. They bought the club for approx. 750m and are rumoured to be quoting 3.5bn for a sale. They are in the exact position they want to be.
Won’t disagree but what I am saying is that the product ie the football performance, result and thus value surely won’t support the asset (the club) value in the long run. Now whether the inactivity hints at something bigger (potential sale) is interesting. But doubt it.
 

GBBQ

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So City potentially selling their 33 year old central defender with on and off injury problems is why we should sell 3 English players, 2 of which are in their 20s and all of whom count towards our homegrown players rule? They're not world beaters but Jones and Smalling are definitely useful as squad options at least. Young should hopefully see minimal game time but he is at least a good utility player for a few positions when 1st and 2nd choice aren't available.
 

LonelyFire

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Won’t disagree but what I am saying is that the product ie the football performance, result and thus value surely won’t support the asset (the club) value in the long run. Now whether the inactivity hints at something bigger (potential sale) is interesting. But doubt it.
I doubt it as well - I still think they believe a streaming deal for broadcast rights would be one last big increase in value.

This summer will speak volumes because if they keep spending fairly minimal then perhaps they are gearing up to sell. More likely they will follow the same pattern as they did in previous summers when we failed to qualify for CL...haphazardly spend money on players they can market rather than on the needs of the team.
 

el3mel

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So City potentially selling their 33 year old central defender with on and off injury problems is why we should sell 3 English players, 2 of which are in their 20s and all of whom count towards our homegrown players rule? They're not world beaters but Jones and Smalling are definitely useful as squad options at least. Young should hopefully see minimal game time but he is at least a good utility player for a few positions when 1st and 2nd choice aren't available.
People using this homegrown excuse? :lol::lol:

We have plenty of them. We can sell all the 3 and will have no problem with that rule for years to come.
 

GBBQ

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People using this homegrown excuse? :lol::lol:

We have plenty of them. We can sell all the 3 and will have no problem with that rule for years to come.
Ok so a better idea is to sell 2 centre backs and bring in at least 3 new ones?
 

amolbhatia50k

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Everyone just getting carried away now. Couple of signings could make make a positive difference but nobody wants to talk about that.
Yeah I do think if we sign the right 4/5 players well be in a very good position next season. As always when things are bad they look worse.
 

Fosu-Mens

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If Pogba and Herrera leaves, and we are stuck with Lingard, Rashford, Lukaku, Martial and some new signing up front, then i could see us fall behind the likes of Wolves, Everton and Leichester.
 

Hal9000

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I personally would not mind slipping down the league for a few seasons, feck it, lose some sponsorship money, knock some value off the club. Maybe Glazers will finally sell up.

Lets face it, this club will never get back to the days of Fergie till we sort out the entire behind the scenes and get the structure of the club back. Woodward, Glazers etc need to go.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I personally would not mind slipping down the league for a few seasons, feck it, lose some sponsorship money, knock some value off the club. Maybe Glazers will finally sell up.

Lets face it, this club will never get back to the days of Fergie till we sort out the entire behind the scenes and get the structure of the club back. Woodward, Glazers etc need to go.
My sentiments exactly. Rather slip to 8th or 9th next year, watch things get really bad and then maybe just maybe there will be too much pressure from disgruntled fans to sell up.

Our fans on here at this time of year get fixated on the transfer window and forget who is running the club and deals. "A few good transfers and we will be fine" line gets rolled out and what happens? It turns to shit every single time.

I'm done with the Glazer era and Woodward now. Don't care how we do it but we simply have to get them out now. I can see protests coming back and worse than ever if things don't pick up. United fans simply had enough.

Imagine if Real Madrid were going through what we are. Their fans would riot. Not suggesting we riot obviously but too many people are just accepting them as 'decent' owners. Truth is they are disastrous and don't have Fergie to save their skin anymore.

Glazer SCUM out out out !!!!
 

Fosu-Mens

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My sentiments exactly. Rather slip to 8th or 9th next year watch thing get really bad and then maybe just maybe they will be too much pressure from disgruntled fans to sell up.

Our fans on here at this time of year get fixated on the transfer window and forget who is running the club and deals. "A few good transfers and we will be fine" line gets rolled out and what happens? It turns to shit every single time.

I'm done with the Glazer era and Woodward now. Don't care how we do it but we simply have to get them out now. I can see protests coming back and worse than ever if things don't pick up. United fans simply had enough.

Imagine if Real Madrid were going through what we are. Their fans would riot. Not suggesting we riot obviously but too many people are just accepting them as 'decent' owners. Truth is they are disastrous and don't have Fergie to save their skin anymore.

Glazer SCUM out out out !!!!
Glazers will only sell if the club becomes less financially attractive: Revenue goes down, no profit, new sponsordeals are not as valuable etc. They do not care about the fans opinion as long as the financial side is good.
 

amolbhatia50k

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That's key.
Yup. That's a large part of what being a top manager is all about. It's the case with Pep and Klopp's signings. Many found Gundogan to be an average signing due to injuries, but he's clearly a City player. Maybe not the force he had the potential to be but fits them depsite not being considered special. We obviously being a poorer team need players who make a bigger impact however we need to start making sure every new signing fits into the overarching plan.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Glazers will only sell if the club becomes less financially attractive: Revenue goes down, no profit, new sponsordeals are not as valuable etc. They do not care about the fans opinion as long as the financial side is good.
If we continue to slide further and further away from the big trophies.....it's only a matter of time until the money starts to drop. Be more empty seats next season than ever before too. Cup games won't be close to being full and Europa League might get 45/50,000 tops for some games.

Last 3 years we've gone from 9pts behind City, to 19 the following season and currently 29 this year. Sponsors are soon going to realise we aren't the go to team anymore.
 

Fosu-Mens

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If we continue to slide further and further away from the big trophies.....it's only a matter of time until the money starts to drop. Be more empty seats next season than ever before too. Cup games won't be close to being full and Europa League might get 45/50,000 tops for some games.

Last 3 years we've gone from 9pts behind City, to 19 the following season and currently 29 this year. Sponsors are soon going to realise we aren't the go to team anymore.
A matter of time. Only potential obstacle is the growth in popularity of football globaly. This is the main reason as for why we are still financially profitable... If this growth translates into an even more lucrative new EPL-deal in 2021 and the new CL-deal the year after, then this might neutralize the detoriation of this club financially. And the Glazers can continue their ownership over their neglicted cash-cow.
 

FlawlessThaw

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I personally would not mind slipping down the league for a few seasons, feck it, lose some sponsorship money, knock some value off the club. Maybe Glazers will finally sell up.
Not going to happen as long as the PL remains a cash cow.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Parein my ignorance, but how connected is this journalist? The bit he said about the dressing room, is he just repeating what someone else wrote or?
Andy Mitten has been doing the United We Stand fanzine for 30 years. He's very much connected.