Angel Gomes — Is he the key player to unlock organized defenses?

Gandalf Greyhame

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We've been here before. A player X who has been injured or hasn't been given a chance or is doing well in the youth team or hasn't been bought yet is suddenly the answer to our misery. Everyone increases in value when they're not on the pitch for us.

Player X is eventually given a chance, and fails to live up to the unrealistic expectations the caf sets for him. Unsurprisingly, we discover that one man cannot overturn the gross derelict of years of poor management, disorganised recruitment, a potpourri of poor tactics and a gradual, systemic erosion of confidence in the squad. Then we completely give up on said player and move on to the next new hope.

The cycle is already over with Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba, Lindelof, Fred, Pereira, Martial, Rashford and Shaw. Greenwood, McT and James are at the beginning of their curves, and we've now queued up Gomes by the looks of it.

Good management, a gradual improvement in our final-third play, a visible change in tactics, a long-term view to recruitment and a more experienced, confident and composed group of forwards is the only 'key' to unlocking organised defences.
 

Cassidy

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We've been here before. A player X who has been injured or hasn't been given a chance or is doing well in the youth team or hasn't been bought yet is suddenly the answer to our misery. Everyone increases in value when they're not on the pitch for us.

Player X is eventually given a chance, and fails to live up to the unrealistic expectations the caf sets for him. Unsurprisingly, we discover that one man cannot overturn the gross derelict of years of poor management, disorganised recruitment, a potpourri of poor tactics and a gradual, systemic erosion of confidence in the squad. Then we completely give up on said player and move on to the next new hope.

The cycle is already over with Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba, Lindelof, Fred, Pereira, Martial, Rashford and Shaw. Greenwood, McT and James are at the beginning of their curves, and we've now queued up Gomes by the looks of it.

Good management, a gradual improvement in our final-third play, a visible change in tactics, a long-term view to recruitment and a more experienced, confident and composed group of forwards is the only 'key' to unlocking organised defences.
I agree with that part.

However to ignore the fact that in the current squad he is likely to be the closet to a player with the attributes we need is silly. When we can expect him to be ready to try and do it for the first team though remains to be seen.

Some argue we should try him now, some argue he should be at least getting minutes from the bench, some argue we should wait and see how he does in Europa and League cups.

Fact is what we can all likely agree is that Lingard and Mata are not the answer and Gomes has a shot at being better than them, its just a matter of when, and if he can step up.

I expect at the end of this season we will have a better idea of what we need and who out of the young players we have including Rashford, Martial, James etc are ready to be trusted or need replacing
 

Affirmation

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He is one of the most talented youngsters we have had for a while and is more than ready to be given a role within a starting lineup especially when looking at our options in the same area he plays in. This is a fault on Ole as a manager for not recognizing this problem area which I would say is contributing in costing us winnable games.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Calling Gomes a key player before he's played puts too much weight on his shoulders. I'd be happy with him if he does as well as Mata or Lingard. If he can begin by playing as well as them, Gomes has scope for development; which the other two don't.
 

Bestietom

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The manager is the one who has the final say if he thinks a player is ready or not. Alright he may sometimes think that the physical side of a player may not be enough against the teams he comes up against in the Premier league.
Surely he can see that physicality or size does not matter when you have the skill and technique to master this. There is an example of this with every top team in England and in Europe who have "Small" players in their side.

Gomes has played against Boys and Men who were and are bigger and stronger than him all his life, and came out on top.
His size should be no excuse. The 2 players who we would like to see him replace Lingard/ Mata are no Geoff Capes and are being knocked off the ball every week. He surely can't do any worse.

Gomes has more skill and close control on the ball and might turn out to save us a fortune.
Play him and sign him up, or he probably goes to a rival club and come back to haunt us.
 
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mewnew11

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For me it's who plays along side Gomes that would define his career.

There is no doubt in my mind that angel has all the attributes to become a legend at this club. He has brilliant vision passing and dribbling that make him stand out at his age.

However he needs people in front of him to compensate his weekness which is pace and movement. Although I would argue that his movement behind the lines is as good as a David Silva.

Angel need runners infront of him so that he can feed them and dictate the attack. It's why the United youth team was so successfull. Players like Chong greenwood etc would provide him the run behind and people like garner would shield him of his defensive duty and playmaking.

For angel to be successful in the first team he needs players like martial James and rashford making runs through the line rather than a Mata or a lingard who simply play tiki taka.

All in all I agree that his time is now. Mata or lingard are all known demons who have not taken us to the next level. ITS ANGEL TIME.:devil:
 

jackal&hyde

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So why not play him? You know who Lampard has faith in? Mount.
We already have the youngest first 11 in the league so it's not like we are afraid to play youth.

To me it feels like we are protecting Gomes, maybe even more then Greenwood. He might not be physically (fitness) or mentally quite ready yet and we don't want to risk introducing him to regular first team football just yet. But i'm reasonably sure he will have a big part to play this season. He is IMO the most talented player we've produced since Pogba.
 

Mainoldo

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We already have the youngest first 11 in the league so it's not like we are afraid to play youth.

To me it feels like we are protecting Gomes, maybe even more then Greenwood. He might not be physically (fitness) or mentally quite ready yet and we don't want to risk introducing him to regular first team football just yet. But i'm reasonably sure he will have a big part to play this season. He is IMO the most talented player we've produced since Pogba.
It’s hardly a stat that proves anything. We’ve just happened to buy a first team ready 19 year old right back and our centre midfielder partner is 21/22 now instead of 30. But McTomminay has been a first team squad player for 3 years now.

We aren’t protecting Gomes we bust believe he is not strong enough for the league. If he was 5’10 he’d be on the bench. Also it’s not good management because he’s not going to stay with lack of games.
 
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Our fans are putting way to much expectation on 19 year old Angel Gomes and 17 year old Mason Greenwood. It's unfair to expect these kids to save our season. Angel is about 5'3" and weighs about 130 lbs, he may not even be physically ready for the PL.
 

romufc

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Gomes is in his final year of his contract, he wants game time or will probably leave on a free.

He doesn't get game time because he is not good enough.

You cannot expect a 19 year old to come and solve our attacking issues when our experienced players are misfiring.
 

LVGSdive

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Gomes is in his final year of his contract, he wants game time or will probably leave on a free.

He doesn't get game time because he is not good enough.

You cannot expect a 19 year old to come and solve our attacking issues when our experienced players are misfiring.
I expect him to be an upgrade on Lingard and Mata.

The same way that a young Sancho was an upgrade or a young Hudson-Odoi was an upgrade.

If we start playing him now we will reap the benefits in 2-3 years time.
 

RedNed77

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I’m looking forward to the inevitable meltdown when Dortmund and Bayern come sniffing around in January and he’s still not had any game time.
 

Cassidy

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Gomes is in his final year of his contract, he wants game time or will probably leave on a free.

He doesn't get game time because he is not good enough.

You cannot expect a 19 year old to come and solve our attacking issues when our experienced players are misfiring.
Not necessarily true
 

Pughnichi

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Gomes is in his final year of his contract, he wants game time or will probably leave on a free.

He doesn't get game time because he is not good enough.

You cannot expect a 19 year old to come and solve our attacking issues when our experienced players are misfiring.
We have thrown 19yr olds in before so he should at least be on the bench. His talent is there for all to see.
 

romufc

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We have thrown 19yr olds in before so he should at least be on the bench. His talent is there for all to see.
We have thrown 19 year olds when we have a team with experience as well.

I doubt we have thrown a 19 yr old when our 21 yr old striker is misfiring
and average age of 24.

Ole has already said, we will see more of Gomes in September, October.

We can all judge how good Gomes actually is then.
 

romufc

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I expect him to be an upgrade on Lingard and Mata.

The same way that a young Sancho was an upgrade or a young Hudson-Odoi was an upgrade.

If we start playing him now we will reap the benefits in 2-3 years time.
Again, he is in final year of his contract.

Sancho was an upgrade to who?
Hudson Odoi was an upgrade to who? Hazard?
 

GenZRed

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He hasn't got much senior experience and some are starting to think he is the answer to our prayers when he is 17?

No chance. He may have potential, but expecting him to just walk in and get us firing is just wishful thinking.
 

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He must start against Astana and Rochdale or at least get 30 minutes against Astana. After that I think he'll be featuring more frequently. I'm sure he'll do a better impression than Lingard and Mata.
 

Lash

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He must start against Astana and Rochdale or at least get 30 minutes against Astana. After that I think he'll be featuring more frequently. I'm sure he'll do a better impression than Lingard and Mata.
I think Ole will start him against Astana. If it was away, I think he wouldn't have a chance, but at home we should be golden. he should probably get minutes against Leicester based on our last few games, but not sure he'll do that.
 

romufc

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CHO was an upgrade on Willian
What has CHO done that he has shown to be an upgrade to Willian?

Willian is ageing hence he is being phased out with CHO phased in, it is more a replacement than upgrade.
 

Raven

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Our fans are putting way to much expectation on 19 year old Angel Gomes and 17 year old Mason Greenwood. It's unfair to expect these kids to save our season. Angel is about 5'3" and weighs about 130 lbs, he may not even be physically ready for the PL.
Stop perpetuating this myth.
 

Raven

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He's officially listed at 1.6m, which in feet is about 5'3"

How can it be a myth when it's his officially listed height by the club?
Read back through his thread, that was a measurement taken about 2 or 3 years ago. This has been gone over time and time again, the guy is 5'5 or 5'6.
 

DSG

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Gomes is in his final year of his contract, he wants game time or will probably leave on a free.

He doesn't get game time because he is not good enough.

You cannot expect a 19 year old to come and solve our attacking issues when our experienced players are misfiring.

So, let me get this straight:

Gomes is in the last year of his contract, so we shouldn’t play him, because he’s going to leave anyway.

Also, there is no way he is good enough to play because we have superstars like Jesse Lingard and Juan Mata who have been top performers for us this season and have created countless goals.

Because he is only 19, there isn’t possibly anything he would add to our attack.

So, we should continue to roll out Lingard and Mata despite 2+ seasons and 100+ games of data that proves they aren’t good enough.

Now I know why we have done a poor job of promoting academy players. We have to have an injury crisis for any of these players to get a chance.
 

romufc

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So, let me get this straight:

Gomes is in the last year of his contract, so we shouldn’t play him, because he’s going to leave anyway.

Also, there is no way he is good enough to play because we have superstars like Jesse Lingard and Juan Mata who have been top performers for us this season and have created countless goals.

Because he is only 19, there isn’t possibly anything he would add to our attack.

So, we should continue to roll out Lingard and Mata despite 2+ seasons and 100+ games of data that proves they aren’t good enough.

Now I know why we have done a poor job of promoting academy players. We have to have an injury crisis for any of these players to get a chance.

I did not say let's not play him.

So you want a 19 year old who in his final year of his contract, to be our main creator, who if he performs really well will have PSG, Barca all looking to give him a big contract. Hmm who does this remind me of? Janujaz.

But we have data to say Gomes is better than Mata and Lingard?
I am not saying Lingard should start or Mata should but we have to be careful.

There is a reason managers dont start 19yr olds, but who am I to say, you know more than most managers so hey.
 

Foxbatt

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If you don't give him the opportunity to play then you won't know. Playing in the reserves or the u21 doesn't show the reality of playing in the first team.
Give him his chance to start a few games and then let's see if he is ready or not.
If you don't buy a lottery ticket then you will never win it.
 

NWRed

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I did not say let's not play him.

So you want a 19 year old who in his final year of his contract, to be our main creator, who if he performs really well will have PSG, Barca all looking to give him a big contract. Hmm who does this remind me of? Janujaz.

But we have data to say Gomes is better than Mata and Lingard?
I am not saying Lingard should start or Mata should but we have to be careful.

There is a reason managers dont start 19yr olds, but who am I to say, you know more than most managers so hey.
??? what is this supposed to mean, players are picked when the manager thinks they are ready, the more talented a player is the younger he tends to be a regular. Giggs, Rooney, C. Ronaldo, Shaw, Rashford, Martial are all players who were first team regulars for in their teens.
 

romufc

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??? what is this supposed to mean, players are picked when the manager thinks they are ready, the more talented a player is the younger he tends to be a regular. Giggs, Rooney, C. Ronaldo, Rashford, Martial are all players who were first team regulars for in their teens.
Yes exactly when they are ready, so you would trust the manager to know whether they are ready or not?

Ole has already said we will see more of Gomes in Sept / Oct
 

NWRed

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Yes exactly when they are ready, so you would trust the manager to know whether they are ready or not?

Ole has already said we will see more of Gomes in Sept / Oct
So he must think he's ready then, and seeing as we're lacking creativity upfront, something Gomes has in abundance, it seems like it's time to get him in the side.

You said managers don't start 19 years olds, they do.
 

DSG

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I did not say let's not play him.

So you want a 19 year old who in his final year of his contract, to be our main creator, who if he performs really well will have PSG, Barca all looking to give him a big contract. Hmm who does this remind me of? Janujaz.

But we have data to say Gomes is better than Mata and Lingard?
I am not saying Lingard should start or Mata should but we have to be careful.

There is a reason managers dont start 19yr olds, but who am I to say, you know more than most managers so hey.
If we are afraid of PSG and Barca coming in and stealing our academy players, we might as well not have an academy. Or let's just develop mediocre players that nobody wants?

You are not saying we should start Lingard or Mata. Who else on the squad is capable of unlocking packed in defenses?

We don't have data on Gomes, which is why he needs to play so we can see what we have. We know Lingard and Mata are shite, so there's that.

Whether or not someone is 19 is a really poor reason to not play someone. Yeah, Messi was a disaster at 19, so was Mbappe. Pulisic was terrible, Sancho, Ronaldo, Havertz, Felix, Brandt, Gotze, de Jong, DeLigt. Cesc Fabregas was lucky to get into that Arsenal side.... etc. etc.

Playing Gomes against Crystal Palace or West Ham or Burnley for 30 minutes, just to see what you have in the lad, doesn't seem like a big ask to me.
 

BringNaniBack

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Worth a try, at least one of Gomez or Fred needs to be given a run in the team to change the balance of our midfield.

Either we stick with Pogba and McTominay sitting deep and play Gomez at number 10 or we have Mctominay and Fred sitting behind Pogba, giving Pogba less responsibility and more opportunity to get forward.