Angel Gomes (United confirm departure)

Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,163
I don't think people are saying he's a crap player, but we've made an offer, he's not accepted it.
What do you want United to do, overpay, beg and have another potentially overhyped player on wages we can't move
Agreed. We made that mistake with the likes of Wilson and Januzai - both of which showed a hell of a lot more promise than Gomes.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
19,640
And that's the point you don't see. He was being accelerated into the first team because the central midfield wasn't good outside of Carrick. It was basically Carrick and a revolving door of Giggs, Anderson, Scholes, Cleverley, and Fletcher. Pogba couldn't bide his time for half the season and take his chance going into a proper off season knowing that it was his turn to step up next to Carrick and a few others? Pogba could have been part of that final SAF title team with RVP, but he wasn't patient and went elsewhere to be successful. United were neck and neck with City for the league that year and it was the year United lost to GD against City. United threw away that late two goal lead against Everton at home very late into the season and dropped 2 points from a winning position.
Pogba decided to leave he made the best choice for his career the next season he made 27 appearances for Juve in the league. By the looks of it he wouldnt have made that many league appearances for United simple as that. Whether he was accelerated or not he was in the squad and Fergie was hesitant to trust him.

I dont blame Fergie it was a difficult season but United as a club was complacent with his contract and we did not do enough to convince the player he was a priority above less talented players like Anderson Cleverly et al. That was ultimately what made him seek a move elsewhere.

By the time Fergie started playing him to convince him to stay Pogba had already agreed to join Juve.Too little too late, this is my last post on this matter. We will agree to disagree
 

Grizzly B

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
12
Realistically probably not going to be a first team player here, but obviously has a lot of potential.

Seems to have turned our deal down for playing time next season which seems reasonable from his point of view given that his chances have been limited here this year and Lingard/Andres keep getting picked in front of him.

He is probably doing the right thing for his career, will be a shame if he develops well but don’t think anyone has done anything wrong here, player or club.
 

edcunited1878

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4,320
Location
San Diego, CA
It was the right move for his career. Ask him now about and I bet he would say he would have taken this decision again if time returned. Similarly Gomes took the right decision for his career. Waiting for your chance while you can't get it with key injuries around and trash players playing ahead of you is just a waste of time.
It's a waste of time for some, but for others it's not. You still have the opportunity to train with the first team against top players and develop within the first team. And what is happening with club academies across Europe, are those matches still being played? I say that because that's where his development would be in a big English club, plus some cup matches but even then it's not enough playing time.

He'll never reach his full potential until his mind and body reach maturity and there's a style of play that suits his technical abilities club and league. Can see him go to Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Germany if he choose to go abroad.

Lingard is older obviously, but it took him years to break into the first team with United and when he first did, he got injured then came back into the first team to compete for his chances. He became a United first team player, won an FA Cup Final in dramatic fashion, and has played international with England within a great World Cup run. He showed the persistence and patience needed for some players who really wanted to make it at United.

United wanted Gomes or else they wouldn't have offered him a contract. He didn't see it or believe it in his POV, then so be it. We'll all move on from Gomes and we wish him the best.
 

Crackers

Coolest Cracker in the box
Scout
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
25,161
Location
Glazers Out
Agreed. We made that mistake with the likes of Wilson and Januzai - both of which showed a hell of a lot more promise than Gomes.
I'm struggling to recall what Wilson was like as a player, but surely Gomes has better potential than Wilson?
 

youngrell

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
1,406
Location
South Wales
Is it fact that Ole blocked him going on loan or just rumours that have been turned into fact? Because all I can find is a Sun article with no quotes and I have no memory of it.
 

MDFC Manager

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
16,949
I don't think people are saying he's a crap player, but we've made an offer, he's not accepted it.
What do you want United to do, overpay, beg and have another potentially overhyped player on wages we can't move
Agreed. We made that mistake with the likes of Wilson and Januzai - both of which showed a hell of a lot more promise than Gomes.
Exactly this.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
30,903
Location
Egypt
It's a waste of time for some, but for others it's not. You still have the opportunity to train with the first team against top players and develop within the first team. And what is happening with club academies across Europe, are those matches still being played?

Lingard is older obviously, but it took him years to break into the first team with United and when he first did, he got injured then came back into the first team to compete for his chances. He became a United first team player, won an FA Cup Final in dramatic fashion, and has played international with England within a great World Cup run. He showed the persistence and patience needed for some players who really wanted to make it at United.

United wanted Gomes or else they wouldn't have offered him a contract. He didn't see it or believe it in his POV, then so be it. We'll all move on from Gomes and we wish him the best.
Why should I waste time playing with reserves and just being glad training with first team while seeing players much worse than me getting to play more minutes while I can move to other clubs, play more, improve myself more and become a much better player faster than just training with reserves. In case of Pogba why he would stay in a club he's barely playing in and seeing United going with Park and Rafael in midfield ahead of him (and losing the match too) with key injuries around when he can move to another big club like Juve and play all the time ? No brainer really. Again if you ask him now about this decision what do you expect ? That he'll say he regrets it and should have stayed and waited for his chance ? His answer would be obvious.

Maybe Lingard waited all this because he's not even as half talented as Gomes or Pogba who knew they're much better than playing for reserves and seeing trash players playing ahead of them. Some players are more ambitious and know their value. Some are just content to stick around and glad to be in such level even if they don't play a minute. Ambition is a key, and I know which profile of player I prefer.

Ultimately it's the right move for his career. He'll be 20 by August. No more time for such a talented player to waste in reserves. Time to move on and seek to develop his talent in a club willing to give him time for that. We didn't play him enough when injuries were left, right and center, we didn't send him in a loan. We just wanted to keep him around even without playing a minute to be just an "option" for when we decide it's the right time to play him. Of course no talented player who really believes in himself will accept such thing. Try to think from the player's perspective, not the club's one.

Yes we'll have to move on but we managed everything about him poorly and again for God sake, I hope we don't come 3-4 years later and bring posts from this thread and laugh at it and regret not managing this situation better. I hope this doesn't happen, because it'll reflect poorly on the club.
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
Scout
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
37,362
Location
W.Yorks
You could read that the other way around mate. Didnt want to commit his future to the club as Ole was reluctant to pick him.
Yeah but I'm just trying to see it from Ole's POV... He's all about it being a privalege to play for United, so maybe him not wanting to commit rubbed him up the wrong way? All just speculation of course.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
19,640
Yeah but I'm just trying to see it from Ole's POV... He's all about it being a privalege to play for United, so maybe him not wanting to commit rubbed him up the wrong way? All just speculation of course.
Pretty poor to block a loan move for the player and then not even play him
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
9,885
I feel we should have given him more chances in the first team but in the time that he did he play he didn't look a top class talent. Appeared to have a lot of technical ability but also struggled to impose himself. We've possibly lost an interesting player but it doesn't look as though the club feel they've lost someone that was a big part of their plans. And we're a club that have been giving youth a chance.
Agree with this
 

Antisocial

Has a Sony home cinema
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
13,958
The seeming lack of links to other clubs (even today when the press are all on him) suggests maybe that the Chelsea link earlier might be correct - he signs for a higher salary, gets loaned for a couple of years and Chelsea then sell him at a profit somewhere later. Should mean that we get a tiny bit back at a tribunal for him at least.
 

JXCK

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
1,855
Location
Old Trafford
I really feel he is being badly advised, if he or his advisors think this is another Pogba situation and he'll have big clubs lining up to sign him, because if he is he has a big shock coming, Pogba was making loads of noise all over Europe at 17 years old, Angel is making a lot of noise ... on social media, and he's 20 in a few months, for once i truly believe we have an exciting project to offer for youngsters, a manager who believes in youth and you will get your chances, however if you want an easy ride he would be better of joining Leeds or a club like that, Chelsea would be career suicide, there's no way he leaves this club for anything other than more money, and well if that's his priority it's a good thing he is leaving, i'd much prefer having players like Williams who keeps his head down, works hard, get's paid well and earning his chances through hard work and determination

Good on the club for not backing down to his most likely ridiculous wage demands, we may finally start to be learning.
 

youngrell

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
1,406
Location
South Wales
Why should I waste time playing with reserves and just being glad training with first team while seeing players much worse than me getting to play more minutes while I can move to other clubs, play more, improve myself more and become a much better player faster than just training with reserves. In case of Pogba why he would stay in a club he's barely playing in and seeing United going with Park and Rafael in midfield ahead of him (and losing the match too) with key injuries around when he can move to another big club like Juve and play all the time ? No brainer really. Again if you ask him now about this decision what do you expect ? That he'll say he regrets it and should have stayed and waited for his chance ? His answer would be obvious.

Maybe Lingard waited all this because he's not even as half talented as Gomes or Pogba who knew they're much better than playing for reserves and seeing trash players playing ahead of them. Some players are more ambitious and know their value. Some are just content to stick around and glad to be in such level even if they don't play a minute. Ambition is a key, and I know which profile of player I prefer.

Ultimately it's the right move for his career. He'll be 20 by August. No more time for such a talented player to waste in reserves. Time to move on and seek to develop his talent in a club willing to give him time for that. We didn't play him enough when injuries were left, right and center, we didn't send him in a loan. We just wanted to keep him around even without playing a minute to be just an "option" for when we decide it's the right time to play him. Of course no talented player who really believes in himself will accept such thing. Try to think from the player's perspective, not the club's one.

Yes we'll have to move on but we managed everything about him poorly and again for God sake, I hope we don't come 3-4 years later and bring posts from this thread and laugh at it and regret not managing this situation better. I hope this doesn't happen, because it'll reflect poorly on the club.
Scholes, a player of similar stature, wasn’t getting minutes at this age either. He only started to feature at 20 and was still only introduced sparingly for a while after that.

You’d swear Gomes was 24 the way some are going on. He’s got plenty of time still. Scholes ended up with 700+ appearances.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
30,903
Location
Egypt
Scholes, a player of similar stature, wasn’t getting minutes at this age either. He only started to feature at 20 and was still only introduced sparingly for a while after that.

You’d swear Gomes was 24 the way some are going on. He’s got plenty of time still. Scholes ended up with 700+ appearances.
Gomes didn't get minutes when we were playing with Lingard, Periera and Mata. I'm not sure how people are expecting him to think he'll play more when Pogba and Bruno are starters now so yeah worth sticking around than seeking my future in another club.
 

Igor Drefljak

Definitely Russian
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
5,774
Location
The Wastelands
Every man and his dog knows Gomes is a better player than Lingard.

They've been able to judge his U23 performances against kids and make that judgement (Not that most have seen him play either :lol:)
 

dove

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
5,077
Interesting player and although he didn’t exactly do anything great in the matches played he should have definitely came into our main squad instead of Lingard who is just shite.
 

youngrell

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
1,406
Location
South Wales
Gomes didn't get minutes when we were playing with Lingard, Periera and Mata. I'm not sure how people are expecting him to think he'll play more when Pogba and Bruno are starters now so yeah worth sticking around than seeking my future in another club.
If he thinks he’s good enough then yes, he should believe he will get the opportunity.

The 3 players you mentioned are likely to be moved on or phased out in the very near future.
 

Castia

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
11,540
Every man and his dog knows Gomes is a better player than Lingard.

They've been able to judge his U23 performances against kids and make that judgement (Not that most have seen him play either :lol:)
At this moment in time he isn’t better though. He isn’t better than Lingard that’s the point.

Lingard and Pereira are both bang average and shouldn’t be near the first team and Gomes isn’t even at their level. At 19 he’s got potential and needs to be playing first team football but he’s not good enough for United, in fact he wouldn’t get much game time at any PL club at this stage.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
30,903
Location
Egypt
If he thinks he’s good enough then yes, he should believe he will get the opportunity.

The 3 players you mentioned are likely to be moved on or phased out in the very near future.
Or just move to a club where I'll play more and get to improve myself much better and faster, rather than tying myself to the club and gambling on some thing that might not happen, seeing how it didn't actually happen when worse players were starters for us.

It's currently the right move for him, regardless if he turns out being a new Pogba for us or not.
 

M Bison

Full Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
4,107
Location
In the Wilderness
Supports
York City
I honestly couldn’t care less. We’re building a squad of players that want to be here and if he doesn’t, then it’s best he goes now.

If he was the talent people say he is, clubs would have been lining up for him to sign a pre contract before now.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
2,777
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Pretty poor to block a loan move for the player and then not even play him
why do you state that this has happened? Is it becuse you know it, or have you just gone all in on a rumour? it soundspoor, but itmay also sound like an unfounded accusation., unless it’s founded, of course.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
19,640
why do you state that this has happened? Is it becuse you know it, or have you just gone all in on a rumour? it soundspoor, but itmay also sound like an unfounded accusation., unless it’s founded, of course.
Because it did happen and Ole said it before window closed. Same for Garner and Chong
 

youngrell

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
1,406
Location
South Wales
Or just move to a club where I'll play more and get to improve myself much better and faster, rather than tying myself to the club and gambling on some thing that might not happen, seeing how it didn't actually happen when worse players were starters for us.

It's currently the right move for him, regardless if he turns out being a new Pogba for us or not.
Well that depends largely on where he ends up and how it pans out.
 

Lee565

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Messages
1,300
Surprise Dortmund havent been linked, seems like the type of deal they would try pull off.
 

Gavinb33

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
194
Location
Watching the TV or is it watching me
Makes you wonder why he isn't getting playing time though, Ole gives a lot of chances to young players, its not good enough for people outside of the club to say he has got potential you have to trust the coaches that see it daily to make the choice as to why he isn't playing, potential alone isn't enough you have to show everyday why you deserve it and it looks like he isn't or hasn't been doing that
 

Chriss10

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
22
If he was good enough then Ole would be playing him. It’s that simple... I’m a big fan of Angel but he’s clearly not doing enough in training to get a chance
 

youngrell

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
1,406
Location
South Wales
Where is Nicky Butt in all this? Isn’t it his job to pave a way from the youth team to the first team?

Penny for his thoughts right now.
 

Igor Drefljak

Definitely Russian
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
5,774
Location
The Wastelands
At this moment in time he isn’t better though. He isn’t better than Lingard that’s the point.

Lingard and Pereira are both bang average and shouldn’t be near the first team and Gomes isn’t even at their level. At 19 he’s got potential and needs to be playing first team football but he’s not good enough for United, in fact he wouldn’t get much game time at any PL club at this stage.
Sorry, I was talking on behalf of half the cafe and their ability to know whose better than who with more than likely never / rarely watching Gomes, and knowing how he does in training
 

Red Stone

Full Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
7,409
Location
Norway
I get that he's leaving considering he hasn't gotten games, but there was room for him here even if we are planning on bringing in Sancho. Gomes should have played ahead of both Mata and Lingard this season, and those two should be out the door this summer. At least there's potential in Gomes.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
14,813
Where is Nicky Butt in all this? Isn’t it his job to pave a way from the youth team to the first team?

Penny for his thoughts right now.
Two players 19 and under have played 67 games between them for United this season. If that is his job then he’s doing it pretty well.
 

RikRuud

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
1,767
Location
Auckland, NZ
Has not been a standout performer in the 23's for 2 years. Didn't sign a contract offer. Shame but bye bye.
 

edcunited1878

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4,320
Location
San Diego, CA
Why should I waste time playing with reserves and just being glad training with first team while seeing players much worse than me getting to play more minutes while I can move to other clubs, play more, improve myself more and become a much better player faster than just training with reserves. In case of Pogba why he would stay in a club he's barely playing in and seeing United going with Park and Rafael in midfield ahead of him (and losing the match too) with key injuries around when he can move to another big club like Juve and play all the time ? No brainer really. Again if you ask him now about this decision what do you expect ? That he'll say he regrets it and should have stayed and waited for his chance ? His answer would be obvious.

Maybe Lingard waited all this because he's not even as half talented as Gomes or Pogba who knew they're much better than playing for reserves and seeing trash players playing ahead of them. Some players are more ambitious and know their value. Some are just content to stick around and glad to be in such level even if they don't play a minute. Ambition is a key, and I know which profile of player I prefer.

Ultimately it's the right move for his career. He'll be 20 by August. No more time for such a talented player to waste in reserves. Time to move on and seek to develop his talent in a club willing to give him time for that. We didn't play him enough when injuries were left, right and center, we didn't send him in a loan. We just wanted to keep him around even without playing a minute to be just an "option" for when we decide it's the right time to play him. Of course no talented player who really believes in himself will accept such thing. Try to think from the player's perspective, not the club's one.

Yes we'll have to move on but we managed everything about him poorly and again for God sake, I hope we don't come 3-4 years later and bring posts from this thread and laugh at it and regret not managing this situation better. I hope this doesn't happen, because it'll reflect poorly on the club.
I don't disagree with your belief in wanting players who are hungry and are ambitious. But when you're that young, that small, that weak, but have potential, it's going to take time. I think United know how to develop players by now. If I come up through the ranks at United, and I really wanted to play for them and they wanted me, I'd sign with them knowing that time is still on my side.

Pogba's situation is nowhere near Gomes's situation because of player talent and player mental/physical/emotional status. Again, Pogba was the exception and not the rule.

All players know their value, especially when they are part of a first team squad and first XI. Gomes has always been on the fringes of being a first team squad player.

As a player of that age and that stature, I'd have more patience if I really wanted to play for United. They believed in me through my teenage years and still believe in me by offering me a contract that bridges me from teenage years into early 20s as a professional.

I don't think Gomes has been treated any differently compared to Garner, Greenwood, McTominay, Henderson, and the other youth players who have resigned a contract going into this season or during the season. They've been given a path towards the first team and believed in the process set by the club. Gomes doesn't believe it in anymore. If he does himself good in a career after United, that's great on his part, happy for him. But only time will tell and really it's now up to Gomes to see how far his talent and self-belief carries him. I hope he goes to a club that is a good fit for him in terms of his talents and not just because of the immediate money he could make. We'll see an "Angel Gomes - 20/21 Performances" thread I'm sure, and then we'll be able to continue to judge him.

Either way, if I'm the player I have a lot to prove and improve on myself as a professional regardless of what club I'm playing for. The economics and politics of this can always get sloppy and be far from the truth.
 

GledTheRed

Full Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
9,291
Location
Twitter thread
Probably best he leaves to be honest, we can't keep them all happy and if he was good enough he would have had more chances.