Angel Gomes Watch

MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Bring the fecker home.

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Bloody hell he is shorter than I thought.
 
Since we are talking about his height, Rico Lewis is reportedly 169cm, while Gomes is supposed to be 168. Only one cm difference? Doesn't look to be the case watching them together on the pitch. Gomes must be something like 164.
 
Ballache said:
His contract runs out in 2025.
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could certainly be worth looking at. I dont think we need to get carried away, and he may not even be good enough for where united want to be, but my point is that losing young players with potential needn't be a bad thing if we've managed our options properly.
 
Played well. Lovely touch and range of passing. Looks like he made the right move for his career. Hopefully he can continue to build on that and get more opportunities for the national team. We need players like him in the squad.
 
Carl said:
It also has very few players who can control a game of football from midfield.
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This is true, but the best teams in our league currently are full of much more physically imposing players who can also control games from midfield. Unfortunately we need both if we are to compete with them.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Eriksen should be playing more, even this season. He is our best controlling midfielder. Against teams where we'd dominate, he could easily play the role Gomes is playing tonight for England, but our rest defence is shite.
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Fantastic idea. Give the minutes to the guy with the heart condition that is playing on his last legs
Walters_19_MuFc said:
It’s not weird at all. If you watch Ten Hag’s style of football, it’s clear that he prioritizes a midfielder's off-the-ball attributes.

Take Enrique, for example—he let Ugarte go in favour of Neves because Ugarte didn’t meet his on-the-ball requirements. On the other hand, Ten Hag signed Ugarte specifically for his pressing ability, which reflects the way he wants his team to play. No need to get defensive—that’s just how Ten Hag operates, which is why I don’t think Gomes would be an ideal fit.
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One way to look at it. A different explanation would be that we have next to nobody apart from Casemiro who has even average defensive capabilities in our midfield*, so adding a player that excels in it, made absolute sense.

*Forgot Mainoo, but for the sake of the argument, lets leave him out.
 
The real question is, will he start ahead of Mainoo?
Hot take, I actually think he looks better in that role. As he should of course, he's 5 years older.
I think he looks more assured, is better at making himself more available for the ball and he's constantly gesturing senior players like Rice to give him the ball, whereas Mainoo can be sometimes timid about this. These are qualities you develop from experience running a midfield. Joao Neves has similar qualities.
Hopefully we can bring him back.
 
FrankWhite said:
The real question is, will he start ahead of Mainoo?
Hot take, I actually think he looks better in that role. As he should of course, he's 5 years older.
I think he looks more assured, is better at making himself more available for the ball and he's constantly gesturing senior players like Rice to give him the ball, whereas Mainoo can be sometimes timid about this. These are qualities you develop from experience running a midfield. Joao Neves has similar qualities.
Hopefully we can bring him back.
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I don't think Mainoo and Gomes are the same type of player. Gomes seems much of a deep playmaker. If anything Mainoo is a bit similar to Pogba in terms of style.
 
He is a genuinely excellent technical footballer. The only major concern I would have is when the game becomes stretched he simply will not have the running power to get back. There were a couple of breaks Finland had in the first half were Gomes was trying to get back and just not going anywhere.
 
He’s matured well over the last few years. But for those in this thread decrying us releasing him it’s worth remembering a few facts, even if they destroy the hyperbolic narrative:

- He left at 20, having been offered a new contract but refusing it. He left to play regular first team football. He wasn’t going to get that at United yet.
- He spent the next year on loan at Boavista, from Lille, playing in a slightly more advanced role, he did well.
- He was a bit part plaer for Lille in 21-22. Made a fair few appearances but didn’t establish himself in the team.
- 22-23 he really broke through under Fonseca and played a lot more games. He still played a variety of different positions.
- 23-24 he truly established himself as first choice, playing every league game in the latter 2/3 of the season. He still moved around somewhat, playing as a 6, 8 and 10. Second half of last season he had his most consistent run as a deeper midfielder.
- Present day.

He’s now 24. It’s taken him 3-4 years away from United, at Boavista and Lille, to get enough minutes and development to eventually reach this point. He was always likely to be a late developer. His size, while not being a handicap now that he’s technically and position slot matured, was a handicap as he sought to establish himself. He didn’t have natural gifts of size, strength or pace to rely on, if he got himself into trouble with his play. As a DM this made it virtually impossible to integrate him at a top level side, necessitating him leaving to learn his trade at a lower level of football. It was absolutely the right move for him. Mainoo, for reference, is 5 years younger than Gomes. Which is an enormous amount of development time.

I agree that he’s a lovely little player now (no pun intended). It’s hard to judge how good he is against the calibre of opposition faced today. It’s no real test. But he clearly had unique qualities that make him an interesting addition to the England squad. Can’t have too many technically gifted players in my opinion. I do doubt whether moving back to United would be right for him. It’s hard to judge whether he’s good enough to start in midfield for a top 6 PL side, it’s a massive step up from what he’s faced to date, including today. No doubt he’d be an excellent rotational option, but unsure if that’s what he wants to be. Think he wants to play, week in, week out.

Lots of reasons to want him back, but also lots of reasons he might not want to come back. Would really like to see him play against a top team, to see how he fares. Great to see him in the England team, and despite him leaving, a lot of pride in seeing another academy graduate represent England.
 
Thought he played really well, will be interesting to see him in against a better standard of opposition.

Not long ago the media lauded Alexander-Arnold after he beat Malta's road sweepers and white van men as world class.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s not true at all. As per the edit to my last post. This is a manager who rates De Jong over all and happily moved on Fred to make space for Mainoo. It’s just a complete fabrication to say he prefers runners to technical CMs. I’m sure he’d have happily have signed Neves ahead of Ugarte. That wasn’t an option though, was it?
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Agreed. Ten Hag’s fixation on De Jong and Mainoo’s role as a technician are clear, but we can't overlook how effective both are off the ball as well. These are the types of players we should be targeting. Yet, so far, we've signed very few with a strong blend of technique and energy. Mainoo, thankfully already at the club, is one of the few exceptions. Other than Eirksen, everyone else has been more known for their off-the-ball attributes.

Paul Scholes also weighed in on this. Speaking on The Overlap, he pointed to players like Martin Zubimendi and Ilkay Gündoğan as ideal targets for United, citing their ability to control games and dictate tempo.

"I think that's the type of player they need," Scholes said. "A controlling midfield player to take the sting out."

He also voiced concerns about Ugarte’s technical ability, comparing him to Sofyan Amrabat, and argued that United don’t need another midfielder focused on tackling. Instead, he emphasized the need for someone with a “tactical brain” and “football intelligence” to control games and reduce our over reliance on fast counter-attacks.

Source: Tribuna.com
 
NZT-One said:
Fantastic idea. Give the minutes to the guy with the heart condition that is playing on his last legs

One way to look at it. A different explanation would be that we have next to nobody apart from Casemiro who has even average defensive capabilities in our midfield*, so adding a player that excels in it, made absolute sense.

*Forgot Mainoo, but for the sake of the argument, lets leave him out.
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Talk about being over-dramatic. Deary me!

Yes, it does make sense. Where's the Mainoo alternative then? Or is ten Hag going to put in the 'guy with the heart condition that is playing on his last legs'?
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Agreed. Ten Hag’s fixation on De Jong and Mainoo’s role as a technician are clear, but we can't overlook how effective both are off the ball as well. These are the types of players we should be targeting. Yet, so far, we've signed very few with a strong blend of technique and energy. Mainoo, thankfully already at the club, is one of the few exceptions. Other than Eirksen, everyone else has been more known for their off-the-ball attributes.

Paul Scholes also weighed in on this. Speaking on The Overlap, he pointed to players like Martin Zubimendi and Ilkay Gündoğan as ideal targets for United, citing their ability to control games and dictate tempo.

"I think that's the type of player they need," Scholes said. "A controlling midfield player to take the sting out."

He also voiced concerns about Ugarte’s technical ability, comparing him to Sofyan Amrabat, and argued that United don’t need another midfielder focused on tackling. Instead, he emphasized the need for someone with a “tactical brain” and “football intelligence” to control games and reduce our over reliance on fast counter-attacks.

Source: Tribuna.com
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I don’t think I’ve ever seen Ugarte play. So don’t really want to launch a passionate defence of him. And definitely not in a thread that isn’t about him. All I wanted to do here was disagree with the notion that ETH couldn’t possibly be interested in a player with Gomes’ qualities. Because that’s obviously untrue.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
It’s not weird at all. If you watch Ten Hag’s style of football, it’s clear that he prioritizes a midfielder's off-the-ball attributes.

Take Enrique, for example—he let Ugarte go in favour of Neves because Ugarte didn’t meet his on-the-ball requirements. On the other hand, Ten Hag signed Ugarte specifically for his pressing ability, which reflects the way he wants his team to play. No need to get defensive—that’s just how Ten Hag operates, which is why I don’t think Gomes would be an ideal fit.
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It’s good having a plan off the ball but it’s just as important if not more that we have a plan on the ball. We’re clueless when attacking and in possession. Our pressing as improved this season though and you can tell but for a team that’s looking to play a possession based or controlled game we’ve got a long way to go and we must target a midfielder next year who can control and dictate games.
 
DJ_21 said:
It’s good having a plan off the ball but it’s just as important if not more that we have a plan on the ball. We’re clueless when attacking and in possession. Our pressing as improved this season though and you can tell but for a team that’s looking to play a possession based or controlled game we’ve got a long way to go and we must target a midfielder next year who can control and dictate games.
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We’ll make another move for De Jong next season, only to be told he’s not for sale. Then, in typical fashion, we’ll scramble to sign someone with a completely different skill set a week before the deadline.
 
cj_sparky said:
Thought he played really well, will be interesting to see him in against a better standard of opposition.

Not long ago the media lauded Alexander-Arnold after he beat Malta's road sweepers and white van men as world class.
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Yea, he played the Jorginho role vs a team that parked the bus and chased counters, and he did a really good job as a metronome, made himself available (in ample space, mind) and played through press when it was on. Defensively he did well interrupting counters.

He’ll get more chances based on that, and we’ll see how it develops.
 
I don't think physicality is a problem. He plays in the French league, which is most similar to the PL in terms of physicality. We really do need a player of his profile. Eriksen's problem is that when pressed, he doesn't have Gomes' ability/agility on the ball to escape pressure. He also can't join in attacks like Gomes can due to his lack of athleticism at his current age.

You can fit him and Mainoo in a midfield 3, but that's assuming you have Bruno on the bench or elsewhere in attack. And he can also fit Mainoo's role when injured or when Mainoo needs a rest.
 
Red Rash said:
Bloody hell he is shorter than I thought.
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Amazing Nani still playing in top flight in Portugal despite being on year younger than Rooney.

Nani’s been tearing it up on the 7-a-side tournaments also.

Maybe Utd should sign more Portuguese ballers like the two above or Bruno/Dalot as they have amazing duration and so (until the regulation change) they could, in good faith, have been granted 15-20 year contracts when signed as youth players.
 
I'm wondering if he'd want to come back. He's been making a name for himself over the last two years and it's culminating in pending international recognition now. On his current trajectory and performance levels he is on course to make the next World Cup.

Perhaps he continues to progress and elevate in France and becomes undeniable enough a player that anyone looking to buy him is genuinely thinking about him as a first team fixture and not a rotation option or someone who its nice to have sat on the bench to roll out for specialist games.

He, Ugarte and Mainoo looks like a capable midfield to me, and as others have mentioned, he can play as a deeper-lying #8 and give Mainoo a chance to rest and recover.

I still think we're going to make a move for Wharton - if he doesn't go supernova and into the obscene price bracket - so I loop back to my initial train of thought on whether Gomes would look at what should be a strong set of midfielders and fancy it or not. Having said that, if he is going to a big club from Lille, competition is going to be a lot fiercer regardless and that's something he has to be prepared for.

A hypothetical of:

Wharton
Gomes
Collyer

Mainoo
Ugarte

Mount(?)/new signing
Bruno

With Eriksen and Casemiro offloaded gives a good mix of skill, graft, pace and power and ranges from the ability to play very technical football to a selection that can be very physical, proactive and downright aggressive.

If he's a free agent next summer, it means he can start talking with prospective clubs from January, right? It's going to be a very interesting season for him and that January window predicated on what he does in the interim. The fact he is a free will interest more parties, I think.
 
He was completely mismanaged here. His talent was obvious. He needed game time if he was to stay. Yes we offered him an extension, but it would have been dumb to sign. That was more from the club to offer it. Ole ignored him after impressing in pre season and he chose to leave.

He never got a loan either, as we did not want to but also never let him play senior football. Such a weird planning.

I am glad he is doing well. Moving to United now makes no sense, we dont play the type of football he would thrive in. Maybe if ETH gets sacked and we emphasis the midfield as the heart of the team and our play.
 
Fortitude said:
I'm wondering if he'd want to come back. He's been making a name for himself over the last two years and it's culminating in pending international recognition now. On his current trajectory and performance levels he is on course to make the next World Cup.

Perhaps he continues to progress and elevate in France and becomes undeniable enough a player that anyone looking to buy him is genuinely thinking about him as a first team fixture and not a rotation option or someone who its nice to have sat on the bench to roll out for specialist games.

He, Ugarte and Mainoo looks like a capable midfield to me, and as others have mentioned, he can play as a deeper-lying #8 and give Mainoo a chance to rest and recover.

I still think we're going to make a move for Wharton - if he doesn't go supernova and into the obscene price bracket - so I loop back to my initial train of thought on whether Gomes would look at what should be a strong set of midfielders and fancy it or not. Having said that, if he is going to a big club from Lille, competition is going to be a lot fiercer regardless and that's something he has to be prepared for.

A hypothetical of:

Wharton
Gomes
Collyer

Mainoo
Ugarte

Mount(?)/new signing
Bruno

With Eriksen and Casemiro offloaded gives a good mix of skill, graft, pace and power and ranges from the ability to play very technical football to a selection that can be very physical, proactive and downright aggressive.

If he's a free agent next summer, it means he can start talking with prospective clubs from January, right? It's going to be a very interesting season for him and that January window predicated on what he does in the interim. The fact he is a free will interest more parties, I think.
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I don't think he'll want to go anywhere he isn't a regular. He's had a taste of being a first team fixture now and probably won't want to risk his career going backwards.

I don't think simply coming in to play squaddie to Kobbie would be his idea of a progressive career move. So you kind of have to ask if you believe the two can play together in a midfield pivot - not all of the time, but enough of the time that you're not just splitting both players' minutes in half.

And while you've put forward the idea of the two playing with Ugarte in a three when Bruno is elsewhere, I don't think there'd be enough matches of that kind to move the needle.

There are a lot of posts that suggest it would be easy to bring Angel home and how it's a no-brainer to do so. But as you've alluded to, that's only true if we really really want him. Not if we fancy him as somebody nice to have back.
 
I'd love to have him back, but that's because I would like to see us build a midfield without Bruno or any #10

It just doesn't seem to work for us. As others have said a midfield of Mainoo, Ugarte and Gomes seems pretty balanced, with the only glaring weakness being height and physicality. Mainoo will continue to grow into his frame though and that could solve that issue.

With the fact Bruno is seemingly going nowhere I'm not sure we'll be able to convince him to join. Bruno starts every game, so he'd be minute sharing with Mainoo and Ugarte, and unless Mainoo becomes much more effective defensively I can't see a time you'd have Bruno, Mainoo and Gomes as your midfield 3.

Already next summer we'll need a CB, LB and winger. Getting a CM in on a free would definitely help release funds for big purchases elsewhere.
 
SER19 said:
There's a good lesson here. Some players simply need to go away for regular football and development, and if we let good players go because we dont think we can do that - we should have a good buy back option.
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I agree generally, but this example is not the lesson. You can't insert a buy-back option when a player runs down his contract and leaves on a free transfer.
 
I just don't see why he would leave us & then choose to come back when we have arguably found Mainoo.

If He comes here then he gets strict competition - something only our DOF can convince him by saying that we are planning to have 2 top players for every position like we bought Yoro & de ligt in the same window whilst arguably targeting Brantwaithe as competition to Lisandro Martinez, Mazroui & Dalot etc.

It depends if he wants to be a part of that project or not - but honestly to me, it seems like its easier & better for him to go to somewhere like Spain to a club that's not Barca or Madrid and take his development further by being the main man.
 
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