Angel Gomes - Will he stay or will he go? | Contract Expires 30th June

cyril C

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Kagawa was taller but simultaneously more lightweight than Scholes. Height is not the only determining factor for physicality, though it can be a severely limiting one.

Gomes would need to become freakishly strong to be able to compensate for his lack of stature (and that's far from a given).

The mentions of Maradonna are way off the mark, imo. His chest had the circumference of a great redwood, and his legs were as beefy as an Olympic cyclist's. Ole has thrown Gomes' contemporaries into the first XI loads of times in the last 18 months. The fact Gomes hasn't been trusted as much indicates one (or both) of two things: his talent isn't up to scratch or his athleticism isn't good enough.
Fabregas is not physically strong neither, nor Modric, but there is something about EPL that players need to adapt to it, even for a 1.9m CB. There is no way Gomes will be ready for EPL, if Chelsea is offering him 1st team football then good luck. The best approach for Gomes is to play regular football whether at Championship or European clubs, preferably on loan, and see whether he can develop into a Nasri or Ox. If he doesn't want that then so be it.
 

Stobzilla

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It will be a case of how well we can sell him on a path too the 1st team. Lingard is probably a good comparison here, SAF basically laid out the timeline with which Jesse would be ready to play and that was down too his size, It was a fairly eerie prediction from what I remember. He had it spot on.

Gomes, like Lingard has too accept that there will be limitations owing too his size. The Gilmour lad at Chelsea will get a few kickings if he plays regularly, Lampard will have to protect him and be very selective with what games he plays in. Similarly, Ole has to be careful with Angel, not just for our sake but for Angel's as well.
 

flappyjay

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https://www.teamtalk.com/news/marcotti-rips-man-utd-angel-gomes-says-chelsea-making-a-huge-mistake


This part down here is why I hate pundits. These are his words on short players and Gomes from the article, he clearly doesn't no much about him.

"They have to either be extremely technically gifted, or be super quick or super smart. He’s not any of those things."

He is also right that going to Chelsea could also just mean joining the loan army and then getting sold to a midtable team in a few years.
 

AltiUn

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https://www.teamtalk.com/news/marcotti-rips-man-utd-angel-gomes-says-chelsea-making-a-huge-mistake


This part down here is why I hate pundits. These are his words on short players and Gomes from the article, he clearly doesn't no much about him.

"They have to either be extremely technically gifted, or be super quick or super smart. He’s not any of those things."

He is also right that going to Chelsea could also just mean joining the loan army and then getting sold to a midtable team in a few years.
Imagine watching Gomes and thinking he's not technically gifted, although judging by this opinion piece he's probably not watched him.
 

MaxiPaxi

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He can leave all he wants. He played what 10 games for us? Made absolutely feck all impact. Go away.
 

MartinRed

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Never watched him for U-23 he showed some qualities when he played for the first team but clearly not enough.So I can't understand his constant complaints.It's annoying.
 

arthurka

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I would be extremely sad by him leaving, he has so much talent he will come good..
 

crossy1686

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I would be extremely sad by him leaving, he has so much talent he will come good..
What leads you to believe this? Have you watched him play much? He's made about 5 appearances for United's first team, how can anyone claim he's good enough. Also worth noting that people said exactly the same things about Lingard.

I don't see why we should be held ransom to him when someone like Jude Bellingham is available and is being described as a 'generational talent'.
 

duffer

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Never watched him for U-23 he showed some qualities when he played for the first team but clearly not enough.So I can't understand his constant complaints.It's annoying.
Could you link to some of his "constant complaints"? Not loads, just 2 or 3 will be great.
 

arthurka

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What leads you to believe this? Have you watched him play much? He's made about 5 appearances for United's first team, how can anyone claim he's good enough. Also worth noting that people said exactly the same things about Lingard.

I don't see why we should be held ransom to him when someone like Jude Bellingham is available and is being described as a 'generational talent'.
Yes I have I watched him play for the U18 and U23's and I will just say this at times he looked like a experienced Barca player running the show in the middle of the park. His biggest problem is his size but he will bulk up and his skill and vision will show. But I agree he hasn't taken the chances given to him under Ole. But Lingard come on now behave.
 

In Rainbows

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What leads you to believe this? Have you watched him play much? He's made about 5 appearances for United's first team, how can anyone claim he's good enough. Also worth noting that people said exactly the same things about Lingard.

I don't see why we should be held ransom to him when someone like Jude Bellingham is available and is being described as a 'generational talent'.
What does Lingard have to do with Gomes? They're not in the same bracket of potential talent.
 

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He’s been offered around 30k a week. He’s 19, and he’s done nothing so far. If he had a breakthrough year he could renegotiate a new contract. The club’s offer is extremely fair.

Gomes may well go on to be a good player, but he’s also 5’3”. He’s absolutely tiny. He has a lot of question marks over his head.

We have a manager in charge who has given an almost unprecedented amount of game time to young players. The pathway is clearly there. The fact he hasn’t had lots of chances, says all you need to know about how is performing in training. It’s not to say it’s effort based, but the coaches are clearly seeing something that says he’s not ready. This in a season where Williams, Greenwood, Garner, and Chong have all gotten more minutes.

If he decides to leave, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. The club have tried to keep him, while being responsible in his development. He’s not some generational talent that we’ve treated unfairly. He’s looked unready every time he’s played.

If I had to guess, this one is more Zeki Fryers than Paul Pogba.
 

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What leads you to believe this? Have you watched him play much? He's made about 5 appearances for United's first team, how can anyone claim he's good enough. Also worth noting that people said exactly the same things about Lingard.

I don't see why we should be held ransom to him when someone like Jude Bellingham is available and is being described as a 'generational talent'.
Lingard wasnt 19, made his debut as a right wingback, while Gomes made his debut at 16 and has played a very good game in the europa league.
 

duffer

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If there weren't any he would signed the new contract by now.
I'm not doubting you, I'd like to take a look at them. Could you provide a link to a few of them please?

If Chelsea are signing a constant complainer, I'd like to know!
 

Rozay

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He’s been offered around 30k a week. He’s 19, and he’s done nothing so far. If he had a breakthrough year he could renegotiate a new contract. The club’s offer is extremely fair.

Gomes may well go on to be a good player, but he’s also 5’3”. He’s absolutely tiny. He has a lot of question marks over his head.

We have a manager in charge who has given an almost unprecedented amount of game time to young players. The pathway is clearly there. The fact he hasn’t had lots of chances, says all you need to know about how is performing in training. It’s not to say it’s effort based, but the coaches are clearly seeing something that says he’s not ready. This in a season where Williams, Greenwood, Garner, and Chong have all gotten more minutes.

If he decides to leave, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. The club have tried to keep him, while being responsible in his development. He’s not some generational talent that we’ve treated unfairly. He’s looked unready every time he’s played.

If I had to guess, this one is more Zeki Fryers than Paul Pogba.
I think it’s clear the issue here isn’t financial.
 

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Yes I have I watched him play for the U18 and U23's and I will just say this at times he looked like a experienced Barca player running the show in the middle of the park. His biggest problem is his size but he will bulk up and his skill and vision will show. But I agree he hasn't taken the chances given to him under Ole. But Lingard come on now behave.
His size isn't a problem and hasn't been a problem since post 2010. The last giant/physical team to win the league were Chelsea under Mourinho, the first time, since then we've had the likes of Suarez, Torres, Silva, Aguero etc all having a massive impact on the PL, despite a relative small stature.

If Gomes was anywhere near as good as some people are suggesting on here he would be in the first team already and he'd be offered a contract making him the highest paid youngster at the club.

Nicky Butt has repeatedly gone on record and said that you can be pulling up tree's in the reserves but it means nothing if you don't take your chances in the first team. You can give away the ball on the half way line or not be disciplined with positioning, and Aguero isn't going to score a goal against you due to your mistake. You do any of that stuff in the first team and you're 1-0 down.

There is no conspiracy for not playing one of the apparent best youth players ever to come through our academy.
 

arthurka

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His size isn't a problem and hasn't been a problem since post 2010. The last giant/physical team to win the league were Chelsea under Mourinho, the first time, since then we've had the likes of Suarez, Torres, Silva, Aguero etc all having a massive impact on the PL, despite a relative small stature.

If Gomes was anywhere near as good as some people are suggesting on here he would be in the first team already and he'd be offered a contract making him the highest paid youngster at the club.

Nicky Butt has repeatedly gone on record and said that you can be pulling up tree's in the reserves but it means nothing if you don't take your chances in the first team. You can give away the ball on the half way line or not be disciplined with positioning, and Aguero isn't going to score a goal against you due to your mistake. You do any of that stuff in the first team and you're 1-0 down.

There is no conspiracy for not playing one of the apparent best youth players ever to come through our academy.
Come on he is so small it's not anything to compare Mourinho's side too but Torres :lol: .
Never said it was a conspiracy just said he will come good. I will be sad to see him leave that's all.
 

rotherham_red

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His size isn't a problem and hasn't been a problem since post 2010. The last giant/physical team to win the league were Chelsea under Mourinho, the first time, since then we've had the likes of Suarez, Torres, Silva, Aguero etc all having a massive impact on the PL, despite a relative small stature.

If Gomes was anywhere near as good as some people are suggesting on here he would be in the first team already and he'd be offered a contract making him the highest paid youngster at the club.

Nicky Butt has repeatedly gone on record and said that you can be pulling up tree's in the reserves but it means nothing if you don't take your chances in the first team. You can give away the ball on the half way line or not be disciplined with positioning, and Aguero isn't going to score a goal against you due to your mistake. You do any of that stuff in the first team and you're 1-0 down.

There is no conspiracy for not playing one of the apparent best youth players ever to come through our academy.
Ah yes, Torres, that notorious 6"1 midget...
 

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People are right to point out that he hasn't played enough for the first team for us to learn anything real about him yet. He's played more than a handful of minutes on only three occasions: 68 against Astana at home, 90 against Alkmaar away, and 89 against Astana away (and that was effectively in an U21 side anyway.)

It doesn't seem quite as fair to tell those of us who've seen all his football through the age groups and reserves that it is completely irrelevant. No one is labouring under the delusion that the challenges are comparable to first team football, but that doesn't mean you can't learn anything at all about the player from it.

That said, if you do believe that junior and reserve football are irrelevant, then by process of elimination you are suggesting that no-one here has grounds to form any opinions about him at all, so do feel free to preserve yourself from hypocrisy and not offer any.
 

POF

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https://www.teamtalk.com/news/marcotti-rips-man-utd-angel-gomes-says-chelsea-making-a-huge-mistake


This part down here is why I hate pundits. These are his words on short players and Gomes from the article, he clearly doesn't no much about him.

"They have to either be extremely technically gifted, or be super quick or super smart. He’s not any of those things."

He is also right that going to Chelsea could also just mean joining the loan army and then getting sold to a midtable team in a few years.
Marcotti is absolutely right. If Gomes was exceptional now he would have got more opportunities. There's no doubt over his talent and I think he could break through in a few years when he develops more physically as long as he has patience.

He won't get a better pathway at another club. He's been the poster boy for the revamped United academy for a number of years and the club would love to get him in the first team.

But if he'd rather join the plethora of loan players at Chelsea then he should go and see how that works out for him.
 

MartinRed

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Yes @MartinRed I'd be interested to read these too if you have links, I wasn't aware of anything like that.
It's not something that he particularly said it is that the whole drama that is created around this new contract of his which he is stalling for months now like he's doing something great every time he steps on the pitch which he doesn't and like we'll be missing a top top player even if nobody is sure he'll ever be.That's annoying me.He needs to prove himself in matches first then start asking for more playing time , more money and so on.He needs to man up and focus on his game than the contract parameters.Like Chong did.
 

elmo

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It's not something that he particularly said it is that the whole drama that is created around this new contract of his which he is stalling for months now like he's doing something great every time he steps on the pitch which he doesn't and like we'll be missing a top top player even if nobody is sure he'll ever be.That's annoying me.He needs to prove himself in matches first then start asking for more playing time , more money and so on.He needs to man up and focus on his game than the contract parameters.Like Chong did.
Like feck he did.

Chong has been given more minutes despite looking absolutely out of his depth every single time he steps on the pitch.
 

MartinRed

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Like feck he did.

Chong has been given more minutes despite looking absolutely out of his depth every single time he steps on the pitch.
You saying it like Gomes looked otherwise.At least Chong started keeping his head down an example that the other youngsters should all follow.
 

elmo

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You saying it like Gomes looked otherwise.At least Chong started keeping his head down an example that the other youngsters should all follow.
The difference was that Chong kept getting minutes over Gomes despite being shit and Gomes was played out of position unlike Chong.

How's that supposed to convince Gomes that the club actually has a plan for him? One person gets minutes for feckall while the other doesn't.
 

lenny_1248

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Many people forget or actually just don't know how good is he. Pople talked the same shit about Pogba "oh, he was not good when he was given minutes in the first team", "oh, he was not as good in the U-23 as he was in U-18".
We never saw him play in 2 games in a row, he was constantly played out of position (he is number 8 for those of you who don't know and not a bloody winger), he played in a team that was just abysmal. What did you expect of him?
I'm not saying he's the second coming of Jesus or as good as Mason, maybe Angel had some attitude problems or maybe he did not give his 100%, but what I do know is that he certainly should have given more minutes and opportunities. It's actually criminal how many more minutes Lingard/Pereira got.
Maybe if he played more, we could have a player on the pitch who ACTUALLY could pass a ball and be creative.
 

Cassidy

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You saying it like Gomes looked otherwise.At least Chong started keeping his head down an example that the other youngsters should all follow.
You mean the same Chong that was in negotiations with Inter Milan? Where do you hear that Gomes has not been keeping his head down?
 

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Chong has been significantly better than Gomes. Maybe unpopular opinion but I have to trust my eyes. He almost scored twice that I remember, Gomes hasn't even gotten close. Got two assists in the Europa too. Good off the bench performance against Watford.
 

Cassidy

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Chong has been significantly better than Gomes. Maybe unpopular opinion but I have to trust my eyes. He almost scored twice that I remember, Gomes hasn't even gotten close. Got two assists in the Europa too. Good off the bench performance against Watford.
Those things happened after he was given more chances to play later in the season whilst negotiating with Inter. At the same time Gomes didnt play.
 

duffer

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It's not something that he particularly said it is that the whole drama that is created around this new contract of his which he is stalling for months now like he's doing something great every time he steps on the pitch which he doesn't and like we'll be missing a top top player even if nobody is sure he'll ever be.That's annoying me.He needs to prove himself in matches first then start asking for more playing time , more money and so on.He needs to man up and focus on his game than the contract parameters.Like Chong did.
So when you say "his constant complaints", you have no idea if he's actually complained once and he might be acting totally professionally whilst not agreeing a contract and not being picked.

That's really unfair on the kid as he has nothing to do with all the debate created by fans and blog writers (it seems that's what you're annoyed with).

I remember Hudson-Odoi getting similar shit from internet Chelsea fans when his contract negotiations were ongoing, like he has to sign whatever is put on front of him straight away otherwise it's an insult to the club.
 
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Ekeke

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Marcotti is absolutely right. If Gomes was exceptional now he would have got more opportunities. There's no doubt over his talent and I think he could break through in a few years when he develops more physically as long as he has patience.

He won't get a better pathway at another club. He's been the poster boy for the revamped United academy for a number of years and the club would love to get him in the first team.

But if he'd rather join the plethora of loan players at Chelsea then he should go and see how that works out for him.
Its like people learned absolutely nothing from what happened with Pogba.

He was 19, Rafael and Ji Sung Park were playing in CM and Scholes came out of retirement to get some games. You would have said then that if Pogba was exceptional he would have got more opportunities - he played just 67 minutes across 3 sub appearances in the league in 12/13. Then he went to Juventus and started 18 games with 9 sub appearances and playing 1732 minutes for them and being considered one of the best young players in the world.

Fast forward and we're signing Pogba back for almost £94 million.

Is Gomes exactly the same as Pogba? No. But are people making the same arguments as when Pogba was let go for free? Yes. Those that refuse to learn are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

He has had a very good game, he deserves more gametime to see if he can do that more often
 

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Chong has been significantly better than Gomes. Maybe unpopular opinion but I have to trust my eyes. He almost scored twice that I remember, Gomes hasn't even gotten close. Got two assists in the Europa too. Good off the bench performance against Watford.
Gomes sets up other players, he almost had an assist for Fred hitting the bar against Astana and several other good pieces of play to set up teammates in good positions that were squandered
 

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Imagine watching Gomes and thinking he's not technically gifted, although judging by this opinion piece he's probably not watched him.
I was going to post the same thing. He has amazing technical ability.
 

kundalini

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What does Angel Gomes contribute to the team relative to alternative options, and why can't I see a clear impact in results and goals scored at U18 and U23 level ?

In 16/17 Gomes played for the U18s. In the games he started (plus one he came on as an early sub) the team's results were 10 wins 4 draws 3 defeats during the regular season. While he was on the pitch, the team scored 46 goals in the equivalent of 16 and 1/3 matches. In the games he missed the team won 4 and lost 1, scoring 15 goals and 2 more after he was substituted.

In 17/18 Gomes started 5 games for the U18s, 3 wins 2 defeats, the team scoring 10 goals while he was on the pitch. In the games he missed, the team had 12 wins 3 draws 2 defeats, scoring 54 goals in 17 games and another 1 after he was substituted.

He then moved up to the U23s. The team lost all three matches he started, scoring 1 goal while he was on the pitch.

In 18/19 Gomes started 15 games for the U23s. The team had 5 wins 4 draws 6 defeats, scoring 23 goals while he was on the pitch. In the games he missed, the team had 2 wins 2 draws and 2 defeats, scoring 8 goals. Angel came on as a late sub against Norwich with United leading 2-0, which was also the final score. Tanner was sent off twice, one win, one defeat, in matches Angel missed.

In 19/20 Gomes started 5 games for the U23s. The team had 4 wins 1 draw, scoring 12 goals while he was on the pitch. In the games he missed, the team had 10 wins and 2 defeats, scoring 32 goals. In one of the defeats, Bernard was sent off after 29 mins. Against West Ham, we scored 1 goal in 80 mins with Angel on the pitch and 1 goal in 100 mins without him.

If you do the same type of comparison for Greenwood at U18 level, there is a clear decline in results and goals scored when he is missing. In 17/18 at U18 level with Greenwood starting 10 wins 2 draws 1 defeat. Without 1 win 1 draw 3 defeats. In 18/19 With 9 wins 3 draws 1 defeat. Without 3 wins 4 draws 2 defeats. Same is true of Chong at U23 level. In 18/19 7 wins 5 draws 5 defeats when Chong started. 1 win 1 draw 3 defeats when he was missing. In 19/20 Chong started 6 matches in the U23 league. 6 wins, the team averaging just over 3.5 goals per game. Even in 17/18 the relegated U23 side performed better when Chong started 2 wins 3 draws 3 defeats, 9 points in 8 games, compared to just 20 in 22 for the whole season, so 11 points in 14 matches he missed. Team scored 11 goals in 8 games when Chong started and 11 goals in 14 games he missed.
 
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dalriada

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Nobody seems sure about his height - I've seen 1.6m (5'3"), which really is tiny for a first team player, but also up to 1.68m (5'6"), which is only an inch shorter than Mata or Fred - all from plausible sources.

If he really is disgruntled about his playing time and contract, he needs to be more patient. He's not been good enough to make himself indispensable when he has played, but he clearly has talent from what I've seen in the second team. Whatever his height, he looks as if he has some growing to do.

I would prefer to see him stay, but we can only bring so many academy players through at one time, so if he really is threatening to leave then let him go - accepting a lot of this is usual journalist rubbish.
 

duffer

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What does Angel Gomes contribute to the team relative to alternative options, and why can't I see a clear impact in results and goals scored at U18 and U23 level ?
How many of those games did you watch?
 

kundalini

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How many of those games did you watch?
About 10, possibly 12, of the games he started at U23 level. I rarely ever watch more than highlights of U18 games.

He is clearly a talented player but I suspect his impact on games is overly reliant on things like him taking penalties etc. I think the moments when he does something that no-one else could manage, are few and far between. Hence the pattern in my previous post, the team performs just as well when Gomes is missing.

My point is that United have given Gomes the impression that he is an outstanding talent. His initial contract was for £15K a week with bonuses on top. So perhaps inevitably, Angel expected to be fast-tracked into the first team; which hasn't happened.

I thought he should be given Europa League and domestic Cup matches this season regardless of how well he performed but only be given mins in the PL if he had performed well.

I have absolutely no idea whether Gomes will turn out to be an elite player or someone who bounces around various European leagues trying to find a team that plays a style of football that suits him.
 
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