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Probably our best goal this season so far. Brilliant dribbling techniques and finishing there.
I thought Wright made some good points, except to say Martial needs more end product. His numbers for both goals and assists are great. His issue is more outside of the end product. He’s always been a bit dodgy passing in field and still is, but his off the ball running is now getting much better and I think coaching in that area will bring the rest of his game on. He’s amazing when he’s on it.
Mata was part of Martial FC all along I see
His goal against Cardiff might be better.
I think it’s been clear for a long time that Martial is a LF, not a LW.
De Gea's part of it too
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Then the story of Romero seeing Martial at Monaco.
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I found the finish even more impressive than the run. He has that composure and technique to curl it into the side netting. Reminded me of Henry at his best with this goal.
DeGea part of the family now.
Tony Martial came from France
English press said he had no chance
50 million down the drain
Tony Martial scores again!
He doesn't play there for France either. Even at Euro 16 when they were short of strikers they didn't play him there. Even played some player from the Mexican league there instead
Hes being played on the left for a reason and excelling there. Allowing him to run at defenders at will.
Once again, Martial FC was for those numpties that jumped on anyone that criticised him in any form if he had a poor game and expected him to continually play every match while out of form.
Was never anything to do with knowing he's a quality footballer and could become much better.
What we want is for him to play on the left as a striker rather than centrally upfront covered by 2 central defenders.
What he has been doing most of his time at United except a few odd games is being played by the touchline making him much more predictable in his dribbling ability because martial is better at cutting in than cutting out.
As skillful as Henry was - he wasn't this magical dribbler that was capable of taking his man on the inside or outside consistently as a winger either - the guy had to play as a forward who would find gaps in the defence, drift (usually to the left), have an advantage & then skillfully & quickly beat the last few defenders that were out of position & were up against the pace/skill of Henry.
That is what Martial has the ability to do in alot of our eyes.
Martial at the LW has done great for us because through the game he will still eventually find himself in these situations - but this happens only a few times a game & yet martial has remained clinical when getting those chances. So we want him to start in that position rather than waiting for an opportunity to open up to move in from LW to LF.
One way of putting it - is that martial going from LW to LF makes his movement slightly predictable as he wants to cut in & make a shot - but him going from LF to LW instead makes him much more fluid & harder to deal with like Henry did - where he would drift to create the space to take on the last defender(s).
As I have said before - I find his dribbling & crossing are some of his overrated or weaker abilities especially when he plays in a position that needs that to be done. He is better at taking on one or two players max in comparison to 3 or 4 players that end up covering the RB he tries to take on as a winger on the touchline.
Nah, it wasn’t. It was for those who didn’t agree that he deserved to be out of the team, and that disagreed he was a one-trick pony or whatever that wouldn’t be any loss if we sold him.
There will always be a section of the fans that defend what the manager does. Perhaps it’s a result of following United for years under Fergie. Opinions change to support whatever is happening at the time. If Martial is in the team, I’ve never heard anyone say he shouldn’t be, that is correct. However, if he’s dropped, there will be a section claiming that this is the right call. If Rashford is picked above him, as he was at the beginning of the 16/17 season, some will just agree with it. Their opinion is to support whatever is happening, and anyone who ‘thinks they know better than the manager’ is seen as some sort of fanatic. It’s always a difficult argument for anyone to win because it is basically a supporter vs a manager. You can’t ‘lose’ by always siding with the professional. You will never be seen as ridiculous.
Martial was poorly handled by Mourinho. That’s not to say he was flawless, but he wasn’t treated as fairly as some of JMs favourites. However, those protesting about it at the time were a disruptive voice of disquiet. It was easy to taunt them as long as Jose was there as you had the backing of the manager ultimately. The rest can whine as much as they like, but the reality was Jose didn’t really fancy ‘their player’.
When Rashford was starting ahead on the left, people said it was the right choice. If Martial came off the bench to score, they said it was evidence of the plan working. ‘Why change it, we’re winning games?’. Rashford’s job is to ‘tire the opposition out for Martial’. Some were forensically analysing it, saying there’s a ‘big difference between Martial scoring against tired legs than him doing it from the start’ to belittle his form. Until the manager gave in and played Martial, then they agreed it was the right thing.
Can't believe you're still perpetuating this idea that his dribbling is overrated after that goal?
When Martial is inside & In between the RB & RCB - his dribbling is great because he is in his most clinical area having already overcome the RB usually by positioning. This is what we saw in that goal.
What you see from him most of the match though is him directly in front of the RB attempting to take on the defender & failing. If he does end up beating the RB - due to the position a RB occupies ie the touchline; he is covered by the RCB, RDM or RCM and even sometimes their RM. At that situation the dribbling that is needed is a wingers or wide midfielders like Hazard, Robben, Ronaldo etc - players that can completely bamboozle the fullback & find him in the direct one on one with CB's to do the same thing.
Martial can't do that consistently & that's nothing against him - that's the position he plays & more specifically - the position of the defenders he has to face. Martial when playing more on the inside of the pitch away from the RB ends up taking on the RCB instead (like we saw in the goal) - in that situation their RB & RCB have no option but to only push martial towards the goal whilst he dribbles. When he plays as a winger - the RB pushes him towards the touchline instead than towards the goal & he struggles ever so slightly.
Great post,couldn't have said any better myself.
The venomous turn many fans went through against him over the summer during preseason was disgraceful. Anyone sticking up for him was smugly dismissed as a fanboy and a popular train of thought seemed to be that he should be sold as soon as possible to acquiesce to the managers irrationality in regards to talented players
I'm glad we've moved past all that ugliness and that the club had better ideas.
Also been glad to see Martial making many doubters eat their fair share of crow
It was shocking seeing the number of people that wanted him gone. Especially seeing as Mourinho was the same manager that let Salah and De Bruyne go at Chelsea.
Martial was an obvious talent with skill that far outweighed any flaws he had.
The treatment of the player over the preseason smacked of a manager trying too hard to seem in control.
If we had let him get his way, we would have been in big trouble and then wondered why the same players we deemed to crap to play for us where excelling elsewhere.
To be fair neither do those players do it consistently. No player just up and go then dribble past 3-4 players consistently the way you're trying to present it.
Heck even Messi wouldn't do that consistently, so failing to dribble past 4 players routinely doesn't make one's dribbling overrated, no player does that.
He is so good. Been my favourite player since that Liverpool goal. We all expect him to be our new Ronaldo, as in 'we found the new Messi' and 'oh my, our very own superstar again'. Luckily we have bought Pogba since then and Rashford has arrived since then too, but this guy is just special. Very happy with him signing a new contract, and with Ole at the club it's nothing but good days ahead for him now.
Martial vs Mbappe on Tuesday
It's amazing that so much has changed in last 2 months. We had manager who said "that's why I play Lukaku all the time" to we have manager who can't stop praising players like Martial, Rashford, Pogba and then we have players like Mata, De Gea and few others who all praise Martial for how good he is.
It was obvious that we have 2 of the best young players in Martial and Rashford and it's great that both are playing in attacking team to show what they are capable of.
That Zabaleta quote just sums up how shit the set up for attacking players.
Martial FC was started by people who saw themselves as fans of his if I remember correctly? It's been used since his first season with us.
It wasn't a derogatory label.
Like Santoryo mentions below, it is very uncommon to see 3-4 players getting beaten. All I can get from what you be written, is the you think Martial's best position is LF, which is also my opinion, but saying his dribbling is overrated is nonsense.
Excellent post, and I am pleased to see a more balanced debate about Martial (from many..) here. Ian Wright made some salient points... Martial's crossing is pretty woeful (look at the crossing variety and ability of a Roberston at Liverpool for instance...) and his passing isn't the best. What he has is pace, power, and can transition us from a defensive team to an attacking team ever so quickly, and in the modern game, this is important, and when it works, looks great on the eye.
But I still feel he has more to do to improve his game, which he has not done in the last couple of seasons. This is what I look forward to seeing... can he score those scrappy goals, attack the ball with his head perhaps... (forwards who head the ball almost seem out of fashion...i don't get that, look at CR7.. he developed this side of his game, magnificently...) does Martial really want to add these elements to his game.. can he develop a real, productive, clinical left-foot(because he isn't that Messi like one-foot magician..). Can he take players on going outside, rather than always inside. When it works it is effective, but if he wants to improve, then there are some clear areas he could work on.
Also, and for me, personally, is just my observation on him after a few seasons.. how much does he think he is the finished article. Because sometimes it seems, that he thinks he is the finished product.
Sort of. It came from United fans on twitter who, as you say, liked Martial and always praised/defended him.
However on redcafe it was mainly used by posters as an insult for a long time. People who wanted other players, first Rashford, then Sanchez, playing instead of Martial and got annoyed by the Martial FC posters who preferred Martial.
Where has this come from?
What a fecking goal that was. Beautiful from Martial, love him to bits.
Just fyi, nobody has ever said he is the finished article, certainly not Martial. I think he could improve by learning to put his laces through the ball a bit more and making a few more runs in behind. You're really running out of things to justify you shitting on Martial aren't you?
Yeah and we were linked with him the past transfer window (Hannibal Mejbri) not sure what went wrong
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"I hear Jose wants to replace you with Ivan Perisic"
I'm glad Ole mentioned the chances created. Seems like some people on these boards can't see that and need it spelled out for them.
Martial has created the most chances out of any other player in our team, including Pogba. Yet when he doesn't score or assist you have vultures coming out in full force and claiming he'd been useless in games despite him being dangerous and creative.
It was always mocking those numpties that couldn't engage in discussion about him without getting aggressive, or accept any flaws in his game, expecting everything to revolve around him even when not performing great. Dunno who started it. This thread was toxic as feck though so I was all for mocking those that made it that way.
Everyone wanted the same outcome and knew he could get there if he got his head down, and he has, or he's at least definitely getting there now (obviously the better system/manager has helped immensely). Some just pretended he was already there even when he barely touched the ball in a game.
On redcafe it was used as a derogatory label against those who thought Martial was being mishandled. It was some sort of jab at these people being perceived to be more fans of Martial than United, because they dared to question the manager’s handling of him.
It’s no surprise that a vast majority of the people who used the term “Martial FC” as a way to try and insult others were also Mourinho’s biggest fans.
How are Willian and Perisic doing these days guys? You know, the players you all claimed would be far more useful for United than Martial.
This isn't true at all. It was because they were weirdly aggressive about it when anyone dared say he's not playing well, and isn't making runs etc.
Seen plenty of anti-Jose people use it as well.
I'd expect anyone who was like that to now twist it like this though
That’s not the way I saw it mate, albeit I wasn’t that much of a frequent visitor to the thread. He had a quite a few poor performances under the Portuguese bacteria, but I avoided the thread at those times because I had a fair idea of what was going to be said, when in my opinion most of his poor matches were due to him being mismanaged and having his confidence beaten out of him and I couldn’t manage seeing
Perhaps it was in those times when I avoided it that the thread went in that direction The times that I saw it used was when people were saying he was being mismanaged by Mourinho.
And there were many who kept on saying that Willian/Perisic would be more useful for United.
The difference in Martial since Ole came in is staggering. Obviously confidence and tactics are playing a huge role but what Iv noticed the most is his starting position.
He’s a good 15 yards further up the field at least so when he’s receiving the all on the half turn or completely facing the oppo’s full back he’s already in a better position to make something happen.
Under Jose where he was starting from much deeper it allowed the oppos defensive midfielder to gravitate over and put him in more 1v2 situations rather than now where he’s running full speed at the full back.
Tactically it will be interesting if teams start flooding our left side to negate the Shaw-Pogba-Martial partnership as it will mean space will be much more limited.
It’s where having someone like Sancho on the opposite side would just kill defensive teams gameplans as we would attack from very angle whereas now it’s predominately down the left.
You've also got those people that continosly lament lack of creative back up for Pogba and the team is set to be doomed without him . Yet Both Martial and Sanchez statically create more chances than Pogba- work that out
I asked, quite specifically whether he thinks he is, I stated that 'sometimes it seems' that way, because at times, it's hard to tell. Read some previous posts on here re Martial, it isn'y only me that has raised these issues. It doesn't mean I do not like him, or he isn't very nice guy etc... and if you disagree with my thoughts, that's fine. What I would ask is for you to compare Rashford and Martial, in terms of what you see, their approach during games, recent development and progress, and then make an assessment. Keep the debate of a decent quality, rather than senseless comments aiming to insult forum members. It's silly.
I no longer make any real critique of Martial, because people on here, when it comes to him, are frightfully defensive, think it is somehow 'personal' and are loathe to suggest anything but platitudes for the guy. It's strange. Guy's a good player, but I don't know why so many get so flipping sensitive about him.
What an incredible talent!
Yep, that's exactly why having 2 threats on both wings is so important.
Mata on the right bless his heart tries his best, but he just isn't a threat by himself. There was a point where he did a decent 1-2 with a midfielder and had a good head start, but the Fulham LB caught him up so easily.
If we could get Pepe / Sancho this summer for our RW it would be huge.
Why would he think he's the finished article? Thata just making up assumptions based on nothing. In few interviews already he sppke how OGS is helping him and the others work to sniff out more chances and score more tap ins. It's not about wanting or not wanting. Probably you're reading too much into it. like one of those body language things again
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