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We were told repeatedly he was as good as those players if not better, but Mourinho was holding him back.He is getting to that age where he needs to start displaying his quality. That contract is stupid money, what has he possibly done to earn that contract? A few step overs in training? Look at the players in his position from the other 'top' teams, Hazard, Mo Salah, Sane, Mane, Son, Sterling. He is not on a level with those players at this point in time for me.
We eating tonight! Or whatever those idiots say.It's okay Tony mate, you got your new contract now so you don't need to try any more. Martial FC!
So this is about you wanting more blame thrown at Woodward? I have no argument there, I don't rate his transfer twaddlings much either. However with regards to Martial and indeed Rashford, the problem isn't them overall IMO, it's that they should not be the main men up top at this stage of their career, and granted Martial is closing in on the age where he needs to piss or get off the pot, however our big problem is that the two forwards we paid a huge fee for and huge wages on respectively, Lukaku and Sanchez, were bad buys, Martial and Rashford need to be the support act to top class forwards at this stage, not the ones being relied on, look at all of the other top sides in Europe and then show me any of them that start with a 21 year old and a 23 year old as their main two forwards, there isn't a single one, they all have at least 2 of their front 3 that are in their prime, look at how City use Gabriel Jesus. Our prime age players are Sanchez, Lukaku and Lingard, and yes you can blame Woodward for all 3 of them as well I guess.Read my response to @Pogue Mahone.
Mourinho needs to be axed, no one debate that. However, the timing is issue. It's not a situation where you can just one step at a time. Let me remind you Mourinho was given an extension (!). Now guess what Martial hasn't proven nothing yet given a luxurious extension. See the similarity? Both being put in the situation where their bad performance doesn't hurt themselves as much as it hurts this club. And yet here we are again here with the same, we need upgrade. Perhaps, it's time for the one who signed and gave these people money being accounted for this mess.
I would glady swap Martial +40M for anyone on that list.He is getting to that age where he needs to start displaying his quality. That contract is stupid money, what has he possibly done to earn that contract? A few step overs in training? Look at the players in his position from the other 'top' teams, Hazard, Mo Salah, Sane, Mane, Son, Sterling. He is not on a level with those players at this point in time for me.
If you just side step using one issue at a time approach then we're forever in this mess. The reason is simple and what people often say say but never follow through: ruthlessness.So this is about you wanting more blame thrown at Woodward? I have no argument there, I don't rate his transfer twaddlings much either. However with regards to Martial and indeed Rashford, the problem isn't them overall IMO, it's that they should not be the main men up top at this stage of their career, and granted Martial is closing in on the age where he needs to piss or get off the pot, however our big problem is that the two forwards we paid a huge fee for and huge wages on respectively, Lukaku and Sanchez, were bad buys, Martial and Rashford need to be the support act to top class forwards at this stage, not the ones being relied on, look at all of the other top sides in Europe and then show me any of them that start with a 21 year old and a 23 year old as their main two forwards, there isn't a single one, they all have at least 2 of their front 3 that are in their prime, look at how City use Gabriel Jesus. Our prime age players are Sanchez, Lukaku and Lingard, and yes you can blame Woodward for all 3 of them as well I guess.
So you are saying that once we bought Lukaku we then should have maybe gotten rid of Martial and given Mourinho his Perisic winger? I mean with Mourinho he should never have been hired, but I'm guessing you are saying we should have been all in and I agree we weren't, we met him halfway on his love of huge men, but wouldn't let him sell players the club felt had commercial value, half in, half out.If you just side step using one issue at a time approach then we're forever in this mess. The reason is simple and what people often say say but never follow through: ruthlessness.
Big clubs made mistake ridding young players who turn out good later, and make bad purchase all the time. Nobody is perfect. Under Woodward however, we don't have a football guy at the top of the power leading to us having second thought about our previous doing and continue half arse in everything. Chop and change never commit 100% into anything.
We can't purchase Mbappe, Dembele, Kane, Neymar even fecking perma crock Bale...to be our main men. When we try to approach differently like the type of forward like Lukaku, we have to approach different in the support cast just to have it work, too. Guess what? Lukaku is here, Martial, Rashford Lingard are here and the team is just stuck in the middle, not having the best XI, system, even at this point where the manager is not to blame. Weird situation but it's a reality.
All this DOF talk turned out to be bs, where from time to time some people clinging to that hope. Guess what? Certain people trying hold on to their power yet never being blamed for failure. Sound like Venezuela dictorship to me where our great resources may eventually running out because dictorship at the top having their goose chasing game.
If you're on to revisionsm route, then who chose Mourinho? Is that person ever being accounted for that mess, or nothing happen, even after more and more failure?So you are saying that once we bought Lukaku we then should have maybe gotten rid of Martial and given Mourinho his Perisic winger? I mean with Mourinho he should never have been hired, but I'm guessing you are saying we should have been all in and I agree we weren't, we met him halfway on his love of huge men, but wouldn't let him sell players the club felt had commercial value, half in, half out.
To bring this back to Martial, are you saying he doesn't fit Ole's ideal system and way of playing so Ole should be allowed to sell him if he wants?
I don't think you are alone in blaming Woodward and the poor structure at the club, a great many of us fans feel that way.
Not with us and our playing style.Never seems to fulfill his chances but he's doing better than the likes of Lingard.
The board are besotted with Martial but they have been a huge failure in the management of the club for six years. I don't think Martial can be the player the board thinks he can be.
Its not in ole's hand it never was. We will just get the available here who want to come for ridiculous prices., I doubt it's in Ole's hand and we're in for the same shite another day.
Not revionism, Mourinho was never the right fit and yes Woodward did hire him and did then proceed to realize he'd made a mistake and slowly but surely stopped backing him. So yeah I get where you are coming from in that Woodward should have lost his position by now, I don't disagree.If you're on to revisionsm route, then who chose Mourinho? Is that person ever being accounted for that mess, or nothing happen, even after more and more failure?
My pint is simple, you commit 100% into the cause. Failure, everything should be burned and all head would roll, giving place to new face. Half arse and we're wasting resource and the black sheep of both worlds. Can't defend, can't attack, yet money is flowing out of pocket.
Yes. Ole should be fully backed. However, with this expensive extension, and the showing since, I doubt it's in Ole's hand and we're in for the same shite another day.
So all the stars need to be aligned for Martial to be able to earn his £250K a week? That is ridiculous. Yet anoter player who needs everything in place for him to be able to show his ability? Maybe he is just not as good as we thought, or his early promise shown? Just a thought.Not with us and our playing style.
I am not gonna repeat myself, so gonna make it short here:Not revionism, Mourinho was never the right fit and yes Woodward did hire him and did then proceed to realize he'd made a mistake and slowly but surely stopped backing him. So yeah I get where you are coming from in that Woodward should have lost his position by now, I don't disagree.
However with Martial I think people are overreacting, much like with Rashford, choices the club have made there that can still come good for us long term IMO.
Yes. The early promise he shown under lvg style cohesive possession football is the highlighted part.So all the stars need to be aligned for Martial to be able to earn his £250K a week? That is ridiculous. Yet anoter player who needs everything in place for him to be able to show his ability? Maybe he is just not as good as we thought, or his early promise shown? Just a thought.
1. He realized his mistake in hiring Mourinho, he's never going to realize that he's not good at the role he's in, someone else has to realize that and remove him and hire a DOF, he can't fire himself.I am not gonna repeat myself, so gonna make it short here:
1. Woodward realized his mistake? Extend Rooney contract.Nani, Rojo and Mourinho. Back to the point, Martial contract length and the supposed wage raise... for what contribution? Time will tell but the sign/pattern is there to see. When it goes bad, it stink up the places, continue doing things like this?
2. Slowly stop backing Mourinho =|= back him or sack him.
One with some dignity can ask for demotion or simply resign. It's not like the media fail to mention Woodward in all these failure. I already mentioned the Glazers' failure as owner in another thread, but since it can work for the good in case not interfering with the people with skills in their their role doing their job (SAF), we have to accept that approach. Woodward becoming a dictator, even interfere with football side however, is unacceptable.1. He realized his mistake in hiring Mourinho, he's never going to realize that he's not good at the role he's in, someone else has to realize that and remove him and hire a DOF, he can't fire himself.
2. Agreed, Mourinho should have been sacked before the season started.
Wait he's on 250k a week?Whenever you feel like he might come good enough after all, please remember we just handled him a new contract worth 250k a week.
That’s three times what Mané and Sane earn, twice than Bernardo Silva and Son, 50% more than Sterling, and 20% more than Salah and Hazard.
That’s how stupid we are.
Meanwhile they have actually improved over the last 3 years while Martial has sulked and had made excuses made for him. The cult got him that 200k+ a week contract.Wait he's on 250k a week?
We are honestly fecked with Woodward running things.
He earns more than all of those players and he's inferior to all of them.
I knew he got an extension, but I didn't realize he's on 250k a week.Meanwhile they have actually improved over the last 3 years while Martial has sulked and had made excuses made for him. The cult got him that 200k+ a week contract.
Martial is a crowd favourite and the narrative was that he was being held back by everything and everyone but himself.I knew he got an extension, but I didn't realize he's on 250k a week.
What do we honestly expect from this club going forward? What on earth has Martial done to earn that wage?
We are directionless and led by a major buffoon in Woodward.
Another player in our team with "he'll look better playing with better players" excuse tag. Just like the majority (if not all) of our attackers.Such an overrated player.
I am sorry, but this line of thinking is the issue. Always ignore the context of tactic.The frightening thing is that the bottom level he has means he performed better today than the other 2 attackers - Rashford missed 2 of 3 chances we made, Lingard had the presence of Martial with the skill of Jones. Martial barely did anything but he could control the ball and play some quick forward passes/exchanges which somehow made him our least terrible attacker today.
The issue is it's not Ole to decide any more. Firstly from what we got the info from our previous managers that they don't have full say on thing. And secondly, moving him on from his new wage and long contract wouldn't be easy.He has the remainder of this season and next season to prove he can be produce consistent quality. I still feel he's got huge potential and is a good footballer in bad form. However if his attitude is not up to the mark then Ole should get rid.
At the end of the day, Ole has to build the team he is responsible for. Martial has to show that he plays a part in that.
That makes no sense. Martial was a bit of an odd man out in terms of the initial spike in performances when Solskjaer took over - he had greater spells both this and, more so, last season under Mourinho. He had an outstanding first season and carried us in attack that year.I’ve never liked him or thought he was a United player. He was somewhat turning me around during that purple patch at the beginning of Ole’s reign but it’s back to the usual now.
This is his ceiling. Inconsistent, lazy, unreliable. Arguably United’s most overrated player of all time, next to Shaw. And if you dare suggest we need upgrades, their fans come out all guns blazing.
Mourinho was right.
Mourinho should have been backed all the way or never hired at all.Not revionism, Mourinho was never the right fit and yes Woodward did hire him and did then proceed to realize he'd made a mistake and slowly but surely stopped backing him. So yeah I get where you are coming from in that Woodward should have lost his position by now, I don't disagree.
However with Martial I think people are overreacting, much like with Rashford, choices the club have made there that can still come good for us long term IMO.
Been saying that for months, think he needs to shed few pounds to play on the wings. He should be played centrally imo, he's strong enough to retain the ball and technically sound enough to pass it.I think he’s slower now than when he joined.
I think he lacks the movement to play central though. I really think left inside forward is his best position. I find him quite a linear player, cutting inside from the left on to his right to finish is by far his best move.Been saying that for months, think he needs to shed few pounds to play on the wings. He should be played centrally imo, he's strong enough to retain the ball and technically sound enough to pass it.
He was shiit last night. Playing with Young who didn't overlap a single time didn't help either.
