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MyOnlySolskjaer

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Anyway, anyone else thinks this season is Martial's best season so far?

I think it is. Recency bias? There are still inconsistencies to his game but I felt his game is changing and more expressive and thus more productive and useful to the team now. It's a lot more fun overall objectively.

His 1st season have the advantage of the shock factor while already back then showed a lot of his game limitations, and then repetitive style with not much improvements (only some) the following 3 seasons at LW.
It has been for sure, he’s really polished his all around game. Been great with holdup, aerially and movement is improving.
 

Stacks

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I was using a looser definition of world class, one that includes more of the fringe top players. I see Martial becoming a top second-striker a la Griezmann but without the hounding defensive work. He has immaculate ball control, loves taking on a man, has a great eye for passing and combining around the box and, as we know, can slot them home with ease on his day.

I genuinely believe he can achieve this if he puts in the effort like he has done this season.
fair enough. It's always difficult because we all have different definitions of world class! You think he can reach Griezmann levels? Griezmann was once regarded the 3rd best player in the world!
 

Kappa123

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fair enough. It's always difficult because we all have different definitions of world class! You think he can reach Griezmann levels? Griezmann was once regarded the 3rd best player in the world!
No, I really don't think he can reach that pinnacle but stylistically if he can become that sort of player for us I'll be very happy. He's already shown glimpses of top wide-forward and false 9 play so for me it's just a matter of finally weaving that all together, along with a bit more consistency for good measure :D
 

Stacks

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So wait now Berbatov dropped back and Drogba and RVN didn't?

This is some next Biased sh*t.

When you want to cr*p on Martial you pick some average striker and compare him to him like Berbatov or Anelka :lol:

And then also have the balls to say that every striker drops backs - only to chuck Berbatov in our face when we talk about martial again.

Look at this -




@hmchan talks about what Martial is not doing for us. Talking about the lack of movement for 87 minutes and not the good 3 minutes when he has the ball at his feet.

Bingo.

Please save this post in this thread - because I agree with you.

This is why martial causes a difference in opinion. It's not because hes lazy for 87 minutes, but it's because if hes really good for those 3 minutes where he has the ball at his feet - what do you do?

You change the system to gcet the ball at his feet longer throughout the match.

Martial is a system player and alot of us saw that for 2 months when Rashford playing and Martial was playing false 9 because the ball was consistently at his feet and no one could deal with him because he was playing deep, acres of space and time to interlink the wider players ( one main issue being James was a winger not a forward like Rashford Rashford because Greenwood isnt ready). He was scoring less goals but he felt like a more useful player, more involved in the team build up and the ball felt like it was literally glued to him.

Rashford got injured, the system, the players and the tactics changed needing martial to be a striker that leads the line and when he does by himself - I agree with you he isnt good enough for us to win trophies.

I don't think Firmino would win trophies for Liverpool without clinical forwards like Salah and Mane next to him and him having to lead the line himself with players like shaqiri and Lallana trying to whip balls in to him like our version of James and mata. We had seen Firmino without a system that got the best out of him and he was clearly average.

Now even if you disagree with Firmino and Martial being similar players -the fact is that Martial getting a system that benefits him, benefits United and does not harm to absolutely no one at United. It gets the best out of players like Rashford who he has a great partnership with so what exactly is the problem?

Why bin a player that clearly needs a system to get the ball deep and in to his feet to get the best out of him when A) it was used already when the players were fit and making runs off him B)is doing well adapting to leading the line by himself when he isnt that type of striker like Ighalo or Haaland is either.

The problem is that some fans talk about how he doesn't make runs like he is some lazy player that you don't see defending at your own corner flags, making a header from a corner an attempting to make runs and passes as he tries to make his way all the way on to the other side to try and score the goal as well - but the real problem is to get the most efficiency out of him you need a system - a system that gets the ball to his feet 7 out of 10 times than him trying to lead the line and make the right runs behind the defense. When we had that system where he was allowed to play deep, ball to feet, he played like a glue to the wider forwards like Rashford & Greenwood/James making runs behind him and I genuinely thought Martial had found his way much more than just scoring a goal every 2 games off a single chance, because he was involved in the gameplay almost 90% of the time even if it was Rashford taking goal scoring duties at the time and we had no CAM.

Hopefully we get Ole for another year so we can try Martial upfront with Rashford and Greenwood/Sancho type players for another year & see how they develop because if we go for someone like Pochettino then Martial has no chance at CF/False 9 just as much as he did under Mourinho. Takes a certain type of manager to atleast have the balls to try a false 9 formation out consistently and not without injuries and I'm glad so far that we have seem to found one.
Comparing Martial to Berbatov and Anelka is an attempt at crapping on Martial as Berbatov and Anelka were "average" huh? Ever seen them play?

And yes every striker does have to drop deep as part of their role, as forwards have to alternate their movement or they become easy to mark. Some players (Berbatov) like to do it at a far greater frequency than other strikers and you suggested that is Martial natural game, hence the comparison.

My humble apologies. As you are the Head coach of Martial FC, I shall know better than to belittle Martial and compare him to the likes of Nicolas " Le Sulk" Anelka who as a teenager had already fired a team to a premier league double, been signed by Real Madrid and was France's starting forward going into Euro 2000.

Please pull me up again if I ever embarrass myself by speaking of the likes of Berbatov in the same vain as Lord Martial, the same Berbatov who Sir Alex desperately wanted to sign despite having Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez in attack because Berbatov was bang average and Sir Alex just wanted to break the British transfer record on an average forward who could not even lace Martial's boots.

Also the false 9 is not the be all and end all. If Ole had his way he'd have a more traditional 9 upfront like Haaland.
 

hmchan

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So wait now Berbatov dropped back and Drogba and RVN didn't?

This is some next Biased sh*t.

When you want to cr*p on Martial you pick some average striker and compare him to him like Berbatov or Anelka :lol:

And then also have the balls to say that every striker drops backs - only to chuck Berbatov in our face when we talk about martial again.

Look at this -




@hmchan talks about what Martial is not doing for us. Talking about the lack of movement for 87 minutes and not the good 3 minutes when he has the ball at his feet.

Bingo.

Please save this post in this thread - because I agree with you.

This is why martial causes a difference in opinion. It's not because hes lazy for 87 minutes, but it's because if hes really good for those 3 minutes where he has the ball at his feet - what do you do?

You change the system to gcet the ball at his feet longer throughout the match.

Martial is a system player and alot of us saw that for 2 months when Rashford playing and Martial was playing false 9 because the ball was consistently at his feet and no one could deal with him because he was playing deep, acres of space and time to interlink the wider players ( one main issue being James was a winger not a forward like Rashford Rashford because Greenwood isnt ready). He was scoring less goals but he felt like a more useful player, more involved in the team build up and the ball felt like it was literally glued to him.

Rashford got injured, the system, the players and the tactics changed needing martial to be a striker that leads the line and when he does by himself - I agree with you he isnt good enough for us to win trophies.

I don't think Firmino would win trophies for Liverpool without clinical forwards like Salah and Mane next to him and him having to lead the line himself with players like shaqiri and Lallana trying to whip balls in to him like our version of James and mata. We had seen Firmino without a system that got the best out of him and he was clearly average.

Now even if you disagree with Firmino and Martial being similar players -the fact is that Martial getting a system that benefits him, benefits United and does not harm to absolutely no one at United. It gets the best out of players like Rashford who he has a great partnership with so what exactly is the problem?

Why bin a player that clearly needs a system to get the ball deep and in to his feet to get the best out of him when A) it was used already when the players were fit and making runs off him B)is doing well adapting to leading the line by himself when he isnt that type of striker like Ighalo or Haaland is either.

The problem is that some fans talk about how he doesn't make runs like he is some lazy player that you don't see defending at your own corner flags, making a header from a corner an attempting to make runs and passes as he tries to make his way all the way on to the other side to try and score the goal as well - but the real problem is to get the most efficiency out of him you need a system - a system that gets the ball to his feet 7 out of 10 times than him trying to lead the line and make the right runs behind the defense. When we had that system where he was allowed to play deep, ball to feet, he played like a glue to the wider forwards like Rashford & Greenwood/James making runs behind him and I genuinely thought Martial had found his way much more than just scoring a goal every 2 games off a single chance, because he was involved in the gameplay almost 90% of the time even if it was Rashford taking goal scoring duties at the time and we had no CAM.

Hopefully we get Ole for another year so we can try Martial upfront with Rashford and Greenwood/Sancho type players for another year & see how they develop because if we go for someone like Pochettino then Martial has no chance at CF/False 9 just as much as he did under Mourinho. Takes a certain type of manager to atleast have the balls to try a false 9 formation out consistently and not without injuries and I'm glad so far that we have seem to found one.
I'm sorry but you somehow misinterpret my sentence, not sure deliberately or not.

I've never said Martial is lazy for 87 minutes, neither I've said he is good for 3 minutes. What I'm pointing out is: the lack of hold up play and off-the-ball movement from him (that we have been discussing for pages) are not shown in the compilation, as the clip only focuses on the moments when he has the ball. So your compilation is rather irrelevant and meaningless as a reply to my post because it doesn't support nor oppose my viewpoints.

As for the whole "system" theory, it sounds like you are just putting the blame on James and Mata. In fact, Martial has had quite a number of poor games even before Rashford's injury in the so-called false nine role. In the away game versus Watford he even got both Rashford and Greenwood flanking him for most of the second half (which clearly fitted your definition of system), but he was virtually non-existent.

The problem is that there's actually no one calling Martial lazy in these recent pages, neither there is someone asking him to defend his own corner flag. Your reply is like a pre-written script against some imaginative complaints rather than addressing the real criticisms he is facing here.

Finally, why we talk about the 87 minutes but not the 3 minutes? Let me answer with a simple Cryuff's quote -
”When you play a match, it is statistically proven that players actually have the ball 3 minutes on average … So, the most important thing is: what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball. That is what determines wether you’re a good player or not.”
 

Bebestation

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Comparing Martial to Berbatov and Anelka is an attempt at crapping on Martial as Berbatov and Anelka were "average" huh? Ever seen them play?

And yes every striker does have to drop deep as part of their role, as forwards have to alternate their movement or they become easy to mark. Some players (Berbatov) like to do it at a far greater frequency than other strikers and you suggested that is Martial natural game, hence the comparison.

My humble apologies. As you are the Head coach of Martial FC, I shall know better than to belittle Martial and compare him to the likes of Nicolas " Le Sulk" Anelka who as a teenager had already fired a team to a premier league double, been signed by Real Madrid and was France's starting forward going into Euro 2000.

Please pull me up again if I ever embarrass myself by speaking of the likes of Berbatov in the same vain as Lord Martial, the same Berbatov who Sir Alex desperately wanted to sign despite having Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez in attack because Berbatov was bang average and Sir Alex just wanted to break the British transfer record on an average forward who could not even lace Martial's boots.
I cant believe people talk about our own and current players like this :eek:

Absolutely disgusting. I am so happy I am not a fan like you and what about the rest of the post eh? Nothing about the system eh? None of that makes sense to you? Just that Anelka was once signed by Real Madrid and played for France?

So did Antonio Cassano.

Berbatov and Anelka are miles apart from RVN and Drogba to me and maybe not to you and to me you are using them to show what you think Martial's ability as a normal traditional striker is rather than a role that fits a different system.

SAF's transfer of Berbatov wasnt the best idea - no one has to pretend like neither of them were perfect all the time either, and don't suddenly turn that around about Martial or some next bulls**t.


Literally uses this 'Martial FC' thing whenever you and your friends are pushed in to a corner about tactics and getting the best about Martial - acting like supporting one of your damn players is something bad to do. Acting like we support him whilst belittling another, when in fact theres this little group of stone island type fans who knows constantly belittle a player due to their own average ability to understand football just like the scouser who didn't understand why Firmino was playing for them before Klopp appeared. The same type of fans that resemble the manager like Mourinho and Pochettino that can and will only use a big ass target man that they crave and wont ever even be flexible or adapt their tactics to even contemplate using a forward like martial, Firmino, Messi in a false 9 formation Ole, Klopp or Pep.

Just go away and be a part of Anelka FC.

You are the real sulkers.

Sulk away.

I know it hurts you when Martial is doing good.

Martial.

Is.

Doing.

Good.

Now.

Sulk.

Bye.
 

OldTrevil

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But consider this, what if it is you who is the irrational one? then your perspective will be warped and you are then engaging in extremist behaviour as anyone who critiques your saviour is being seen as and irrational hater and not worthy of being heard.

you replied to another poster who referred to people having a different opinion as being irrational and HATING a player merely because they don't see the perfection you see. Who actually hates Martial? He's a nice lad.

these are the stages of radicalisation my brother.
Are you OK? or has the virus already got to you. You may as well be talking to yourself, none of the childish drivel you're spewing and arguing against came from anyone else. Maybe your imagination is running wild, my advise check your fever. Like I said, jog on and take your toxicity somewhere else. Oh and you're wrong again, I'm not your brother.
 

hmchan

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Comparing Martial to Berbatov and Anelka is an attempt at crapping on Martial as Berbatov and Anelka were "average" huh? Ever seen them play?

And yes every striker does have to drop deep as part of their role, as forwards have to alternate their movement or they become easy to mark. Some players (Berbatov) like to do it at a far greater frequency than other strikers and you suggested that is Martial natural game, hence the comparison.

My humble apologies. As you are the Head coach of Martial FC, I shall know better than to belittle Martial and compare him to the likes of Nicolas " Le Sulk" Anelka who as a teenager had already fired a team to a premier league double, been signed by Real Madrid and was France's starting forward going into Euro 2000.

Please pull me up again if I ever embarrass myself by speaking of the likes of Berbatov in the same vain as Lord Martial, the same Berbatov who Sir Alex desperately wanted to sign despite having Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez in attack because Berbatov was bang average and Sir Alex just wanted to break the British transfer record on an average forward who could not even lace Martial's boots.

Also the false 9 is not the be all and end all. If Ole had his way he'd have a more traditional 9 upfront like Haaland.
When Rashford is playing, no one could deal with Martial; when Rashford is injured, Martial is missing as well.
When Martial plays at false nine, the ball glues to him; when he plays another role, the glue expires.
When the manager doesn't deploy a formation with a false nine, sack the manager and hire one who does.
 

Stacks

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Are you OK? or has the virus already got to you. You may as well be talking to yourself, none of the childish drivel you're spewing and arguing against came from anyone else. Maybe your imagination is running wild, my advise check your fever. Like I said, jog on and take your toxicity somewhere else. Oh and you're wrong again, I'm not your brother.
Toxic? not agreeing with you is toxic? Mmmkay. So you guys really are insane then?
 

devips

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I like Martial. I want him in our first eleven. But the attempts by "the Martial FC" to find excuses to defend his weaknesses is really pathetic.
 

Stacks

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I cant believe people talk about our own and current players like this :eek:

Absolutely disgusting. I am so happy I am not a fan like you and what about the rest of the post eh? Nothing about the system eh? None of that makes sense to you? Just that Anelka was once signed by Real Madrid and played for France?

So did Antonio Cassano.

Berbatov and Anelka are miles apart from RVN and Drogba to me and maybe not to you and to me you are using them to show what you think Martial's ability as a normal traditional striker is rather than a role that fits a different system.

SAF's transfer of Berbatov wasnt the best idea - no one has to pretend like neither of them were perfect all the time either, and don't suddenly turn that around about Martial or some next bulls**t.


Literally uses this 'Martial FC' thing whenever you and your friends are pushed in to a corner about tactics and getting the best about Martial - acting like supporting one of your damn players is something bad to do. Acting like we support him whilst belittling another, when in fact theres this little group of stone island type fans who knows constantly belittle a player due to their own average ability to understand football just like the scouser who didn't understand why Firmino was playing for them before Klopp appeared. The same type of fans that resemble the manager like Mourinho and Pochettino that can and will only use a big ass target man that they crave and wont ever even be flexible or adapt their tactics to even contemplate using a forward like martial, Firmino, Messi in a false 9 formation Ole, Klopp or Pep.

Just go away and be a part of Anelka FC.

You are the real sulkers.

Sulk away.

I know it hurts you when Martial is doing good.

Martial.

Is.

Doing.

Good.

Now.


Sulk.

Bye.
You are so dramatic! Christ! What did I say about Martial that is so blasphemous or disgusting?!?! did I accidentally insult his Mother? If I did, please tell me. DAMN!

I read the bit about "le system" and I wasn't impressed. you are portraying Ole as some genius tactical system manager like Pep and Klopp and then diss Jose and Pochettino (who are not alike) and claim that Pochettino is some basic dude and Ole is some visionary :eek:.

You intimated that Berbatov and Anelka are some average players. You do realise Berbatov played for us and actually won league titles right as well as made the PFA Team of the Year twice and Martial would be lucky to have this impact in the premier league?

I don't see how you have taken offence at me mentioning former winning players alongside Martial who has barely achieved anything in comparison. It's insanity

AND YES MARTIAL IS DOING GOOD. NOBODY SAID HE ISN'T.......
 

Bebestation

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I'm sorry but you somehow misinterpret my sentence, not sure deliberately or not.

I've never said Martial is lazy for 87 minutes, neither I've said he is good for 3 minutes. What I'm pointing out is: the lack of hold up play and off-the-ball movement from him (that we have been discussing for pages) are not shown in the compilation, as the clip only focuses on the moments when he has the ball. So your compilation is rather irrelevant and meaningless as a reply to my post because it doesn't support nor oppose my viewpoints.

As for the whole "system" theory, it sounds like you are just putting the blame on James and Mata. In fact, Martial has had quite a number of poor games even before Rashford's injury in the so-called false nine role. In the away game versus Watford he even got both Rashford and Greenwood flanking him for most of the second half (which clearly fitted your definition of system), but he was virtually non-existent.

The problem is that there's actually no one calling Martial lazy in these recent pages, neither there is someone asking him to defend his own corner flag. Your reply is like a pre-written script against some imaginative complaints rather than addressing the real criticisms he is facing here.

Finally, why we talk about the 87 minutes but not the 3 minutes? Let me answer with a simple Cryuff's quote -
”When you play a match, it is statistically proven that players actually have the ball 3 minutes on average … So, the most important thing is: what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball. That is what determines wether you’re a good player or not.”
What are you on about?

Greenwood came on at the 58th minute after we had gone 2-0 down. Greenwood struggled to get in to the game, we had Lingard at CAM which we took our for Juan Mata 64 min and Pogba 64 for Mctomminay 72 min whilst Watford sat back with 35 % approx possession after going 2-0 ahead. We struggle to break down teams with a lack of creativity and Ole clearly knows -

A) our best right sided attacker at the moment is Greenwood but isnt ready yet
B) we need creativity around both CAM and the CM

So excuses it maybe but think about what you are asking martial to create as a false 9 when you have a right sided winger touching the touch line unable to cut in for 60 mins of the game. Lingard who is lingard 65 mins of the game and as good as Fred and Mctomminay are, we need creativity in midfield because previously to Bruno Fernandes our Front line were literally creating chances for themselves with players like Rashford & Martial, James and Greenwood trying passes, one twos and shots amongst each other and nothing coming from behind this and everyone knows this because you can see the difference with Bruno Fernandes.

What's the other performances?
 

Bebestation

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You are so dramatic! Christ! What did I say about Martial that is so blasphemous or disgusting?!?! did I accidentally insult his Mother? If I did, please tell me. DAMN!

I read the bit about "le system" and I wasn't impressed. you are portraying Ole as some genius tactical system manager like Pep and Klopp and then diss Jose and Pochettino (who are not alike) and claim that Pochettino is some basic dude and Ole is some visionary :eek:.

You intimated that Berbatov and Anelka are some average players. You do realise Berbatov played for us and actually won league titles right as well as made the PFA Team of the Year twice and Martial would be lucky to have this impact in the premier league?

I don't see how you have taken offence at me mentioning former winning players alongside Martial who has barely achieved anything in comparison. It's insanity

AND YES MARTIAL IS DOING GOOD. NOBODY SAID HE ISN'T.......
It's what you say about the people who say good things about him in terms of performance and tactical analysis yet no one makes a name about you guys who only say bad sh*t abouthis performances. Absolutely disgusting for United fans.

Go sulk away.

Real Anelka stands out here and no wonder your a big fan of him ;)
 

Hawks2008

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Still on the fence with this guy and erring on the side of him not being that great. I feel he is a flawed player but has some talent which is why he does have a great highlight reel but i cant help but feel he is just a highlight player, a good but not great player. A useful player to keep around the squad but ultimately I don't think we should be building around him.

For me he's a long way off being even a Lukaku level striker let alone the likes of RvN, Rooney, RvP etc.
 

UncleBob

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Jesue christ the state of this thread
 

Art Vandelay

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:lol: :lol: This thread is the most entertaining on the forum now. What in the name of feck is going on? People melting down over comparisons to Berbatov and Anelka fecking hell. There's having opposing points of view and then there's this madness.
 

Stacks

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It's what you say about the people who say good things about him in terms of performance and tactical analysis yet no one makes a name about you guys who only say bad sh*t abouthis performances. Absolutely disgusting for United fans.

Go sulk away.

Real Anelka stands out here and no wonder your a big fan of him ;)
don't get me wrong, I certainly have not given up on him as there is a player in there. same as with Rashford.
You said "player". he is better than players we had in the past but since you asked, as a 9; Martial is better than Welbeck, Owen, Alan Smith, Larsson, Falcao, Rashford (CF), Lukaku (2nd season), Rooney (later years although I feel like omitting Rooney because he was a different level to Martial as a 9 generally but he did start as our main 9 when he was shit.)
His goal was a proper strikers goal. I wanna see more headers from he and Rashford.
Thought he was quality and deserved a goal
 

Stacks

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Yeah, madness being posters who call him mediocre and bang average. And then those who defend those posts.

Entertaining? It's a pretty terrible thread tbh. This is less of player peformance review and more about people liking or disliking him.
One person said he was mediocre and that person was not supported by the masses..........................
 

amolbhatia50k

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Yeah, madness being posters who call him mediocre and bang average. And then those who defend those posts.

Entertaining? It's a pretty terrible thread tbh. This is less of player peformance review and more about people liking or disliking him.
One person said he was mediocre and that person was not supported by the masses..........................
Ah so MASSES are involved in this weirdo Berbatov Anelka discussion.
 

OldTrevil

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Toxic? not agreeing with you is toxic? Mmmkay. So you guys really are insane then?
Are you twelve? only that would explain the nonsense you're coming up with.

Admins: Feel free to lock this thread until football is back.
 

Foxbatt

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Most players can play in a system that works for them. Is Martial a player who can lead the line and hold the high balls played up to him like Drogba? No I do not think so. Can he be an effective player that drops deep and collect the ball and dribble through and bring others players in? Of course he is. When he plays with Rashford, the opposing defence has two players to worry about. Martial and Rashfordf who could shoot from long range or go past them. Without Rashford, they only have to worry about Martial.
I really would like Ole to play Martial and Odion together. With Odion up front and Martial dropping deep.
I cannot remember in which game that he created a fantastic goal for Lingard after running into the box. Yes it is against Arsenal. But it is the kind of things he can do. People say he disappears for 85 minutes. I do not care about that if he can score the winning goals or create them in the rest of the 5 mins.
Is he good enough to play for United? I certainly think so and hope Ole uses him in a way that we can make the best use of him. Get him to do things he can do best. Not get him to do things he cannot do.
 

Art Vandelay

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Most players can play in a system that works for them. Is Martial a player who can lead the line and hold the high balls played up to him like Drogba? No I do not think so. Can he be an effective player that drops deep and collect the ball and dribble through and bring others players in? Of course he is. When he plays with Rashford, the opposing defence has two players to worry about. Martial and Rashfordf who could shoot from long range or go past them. Without Rashford, they only have to worry about Martial.
I really would like Ole to play Martial and Odion together. With Odion up front and Martial dropping deep.
I cannot remember in which game that he created a fantastic goal for Lingard after running into the box. Yes it is against Arsenal. But it is the kind of things he can do. People say he disappears for 85 minutes. I do not care about that if he can score the winning goals or create them in the rest of the 5 mins.
Is he good enough to play for United? I certainly think so and hope Ole uses him in a way that we can make the best use of him. Get him to do things he can do best. Not get him to do things he cannot do.
What's the rest of your team in that formation?
 

Foxbatt

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What's the rest of your team in that formation?
I would play a diamond with Odion and Martial up front with Bruno on top of the diamond with Fred and Scott as the two midfield players and Matic as the holding midfield player ( provided Pogba is out). The back 4 starts on their own.
 

Trex

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"of course Rom has a good record and stat,he is one of the top number nine when you want to play with that type of nine- he is a target man
"But for me,i'm very confident that we'll get goals Martial,Rashford...Dan james will come in and create Jesse Lingard will get more.We have a different attacking set up this season"
Those were our managers words at the start of the season,so that explains our setup and he clearly states he didnt want to play with a target man so those who are judging Martial as a target man don't really get it,its clear he wants a floating front four thats why lukaku felt he needed to leave cus he is the opposite type who would occupy the centre not allowing the fluidity,i fill why ole got ighalo and was after haaland was to have and alternative way giving the injuries we have had,martial will need to further improve to maintain his spot cus he isn't prime Ronaldo and he isnt mediocre either,he is having a decent season but it would take more than that to win over some united fans this club has high standards,i like to believe he is only going to get better with the likes of Rashford,Fernandes,Pogba and Sancho(hopefully) instead of players like Lingard and Perriera so fingers crossed
 

hmchan

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What are you on about?

Greenwood came on at the 58th minute after we had gone 2-0 down. Greenwood struggled to get in to the game, we had Lingard at CAM which we took our for Juan Mata 64 min and Pogba 64 for Mctomminay 72 min whilst Watford sat back with 35 % approx possession after going 2-0 ahead. We struggle to break down teams with a lack of creativity and Ole clearly knows -

A) our best right sided attacker at the moment is Greenwood but isnt ready yet
B) we need creativity around both CAM and the CM

So excuses it maybe but think about what you are asking martial to create as a false 9 when you have a right sided winger touching the touch line unable to cut in for 60 mins of the game. Lingard who is lingard 65 mins of the game and as good as Fred and Mctomminay are, we need creativity in midfield because previously to Bruno Fernandes our Front line were literally creating chances for themselves with players like Rashford & Martial, James and Greenwood trying passes, one twos and shots amongst each other and nothing coming from behind this and everyone knows this because you can see the difference with Bruno Fernandes.

What's the other performances?
For god's sake of course I know Watford were sitting back. What we have been discussing for pages is that Martial has to offer more with some hold up plays and off-the-ball movements when we are facing a parked bus, and you still have no idea about it.

From what I'm seeing, you are just making excuses for Martial's poor displays, and you will never be wrong. When he plays well, it's because Rashford is there and the system is right; when he doesn't play well, it's because no one is cutting in from the right, the midfield is poor and the system is wrong (despite Rashford is still there).

I should be the one who asks what are you on about. With all the quality you imply on Martial, he could easily be a classy player in any role, why is he limited down to a system player who needs everyone around him to be top? Is he the one who carries others, or the one who needs carrying from others all the time?
 

Bebestation

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For god's sake of course I know Watford were sitting back. What we have been discussing for pages is that Martial has to offer more with some hold up plays and off-the-ball movements when we are facing a parked bus, and you still have no idea about it.

From what I'm seeing, you are just making excuses for Martial's poor displays, and you will never be wrong. When he plays well, it's because Rashford is there and the system is right; when he doesn't play well, it's because no one is cutting in from the right, the midfield is poor and the system is wrong (despite Rashford is still there).

I should be the one who asks what are you on about. With all the quality you imply on Martial, he could easily be a classy player in any role, why is he limited down to a system player who needs everyone around him to be top? Is he the one who carries others, or the one who needs carrying from others all the time?
Mate you've picked out a performance where literally for 3/4 of the time the system is wrong with a player like James player at RW.

You literally picked out a performance to agree with me because he didn't perform well with James for 58 minutes but you say the proof is that he didn't perform well with Greenwood for the rest of the 32 minutes of the match when Watford were 2-0 up after de gea's mistakes and penalties.

He literally played in a cr*p system the same way a player like Firmino would struggle with playing shaqiri on one side. How is that an excuse?

The fact is this 'anti martial' fan base have such poor understanding of football that see him having poor runs, him having poor touches, him being lazy, him being like Berbatov or Anelka, him being just better than Alan Smith, him being compared directly to the abilities of a striker who is a poacher whilst disregarding what he brings to the build up play of our attacks,when all he needs is a system to make him that 10% more consistent than he already is and on top of that; people keep acting like the 'fans of Martial' or the 'normal fans of United' wouldn't appreciate and love to see a different style of striker to him like Haaland here as well.

Do you know why?

Because alot of the fans of Martial see him as this interlinking false 9 player so we see the benefit of having him on top of a striker like Haaland who is a different type of striker.

That's why I disagree everytime someone compares Martial to Haaland or RVN, I feel like he doesnt play like that at all (has different positives and negatives) but if we make him play a type of football like those players instead of trying to get the best use out of him by playing his natural system then he wont progress further.

Like it's just so frustrating people disregarding the use of a false 9 forward in our squad one day even when we might have traditional striker on the squad aswell.

Rashford- Haaland/Greenwood
Martial
Or considering Martial is our only support striker in the squad

Haaland
Martial
Or Partnership as a striker as a support striker because his passing abilities are the best out of all the strikers in the squad

Martial -Haaland
It's so obvious why Ole wanted two right footed forwards and two left footed forwards. All 4 of different styles. One that can play deep, 2 that can play wide and one that can play as a more traditional approach forward but they all clearly blend to allow us to play flexible tactics.


 

Stacks

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Mate you've picked out a performance where literally for 3/4 of the time the system is wrong with a player like James player at RW.

You literally picked out a performance to agree with me because he didn't perform well with James for 58 minutes but you say the proof is that he didn't perform well with Greenwood for the rest of the 32 minutes of the match when Watford were 2-0 up after de gea's mistakes and penalties.

He literally played in a cr*p system the same way a player like Firmino would struggle with playing shaqiri on one side. How is that an excuse?

The fact is this 'anti martial' fan base have such poor understanding of football that see him having poor runs, him having poor touches, him being lazy, him being like Berbatov or Anelka, him being just better than Alan Smith, him being compared directly to the abilities of a striker who is a poacher whilst disregarding what he brings to the build up play of our attacks,when all he needs is a system to make him that 10% more consistent than he already is and on top of that; people keep acting like the 'fans of Martial' or the 'normal fans of United' wouldn't appreciate and love to see a different style of striker to him like Haaland here as well.

Do you know why?

Because alot of the fans of Martial see him as this interlinking false 9 player so we see the benefit of having him on top of a striker like Haaland who is a different type of striker.

That's why I disagree everytime someone compares Martial to Haaland or RVN, I feel like he doesnt play like that at all (has different positives and negatives) but if we make him play a type of football like those players instead of trying to get the best use out of him by playing his natural system then he wont progress further.

Like it's just so frustrating people disregarding the use of a false 9 forward in our squad one day even when we might have traditional striker on the squad aswell.

Rashford- Haaland/Greenwood
Martial
Or considering Martial is our only support striker in the squad

Haaland
Martial
Or Partnership as a striker as a support striker because his passing abilities are the best out of all the strikers in the squad

Martial -Haaland
It's so obvious why Ole wanted two right footed forwards and two left footed forwards. All 4 of different styles. One that can play deep, 2 that can play wide and one that can play as a more traditional approach forward but they all clearly blend to allow us to play flexible tactics.


Berbatov is more suited to the false 9 role than Martial though and is better at interlinking than Martial. You seen him play much?

Also Ole's words
“He's good receiving the ball at times and dropping off. He can play almost like a false nine as well, although sometimes I'd like him to be stronger physically.

I'm encouraged by his attitude this season as well, wanting to do those things that are not natural for him.

“You've got to make him a No.9 again
, after playing wide for so many years


seems like Ole wants him to not so much to play his "natural system" as you put it, and do more of the unnatural things as a more typical 9. But what do I know? What does Ole know? Our football knowledge is low.
 
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Art Vandelay

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Berbatov is more suited to the false 9 role than Martial though and is better at interlinking than Martial. You seen him play much?

Also Ole's words
“He's good receiving the ball at times and dropping off. He can play almost like a false nine as well, although sometimes I'd like him to be stronger physically.

I'm encouraged by his attitude this season as well, wanting to do those things that are not natural for him.

“You've got to make him a No.9 again
, after playing wide for so many years


seems like Ole wants him to not so much to play his "natural system" as you put it, and do more of the unnatural things as a more typical 9. But what do I know? What does Ole know? Our football knowledge is low.
Could be worse. Your football knowledge could be as low as Pochetino or Mourinho's.
 

Bebestation

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Berbatov is more suited to the false 9 role than Martial though and is better at interlinking than Martial. You seen him play much?

Also Ole's words
“He's good receiving the ball at times and dropping off. He can play almost like a false nine as well, although sometimes I'd like him to be stronger physically.

I'm encouraged by his attitude this season as well, wanting to do those things that are not natural for him.

“You've got to make him a No.9 again
, after playing wide for so many years


seems like Ole wants him to not so much to play his "natural system" as you put it, and do more of the unnatural things as a more typical 9. But what do I know? What does Ole know? Our football knowledge is low.
Oh shocks! I'm glad you picked up our manager calling him a false 9 now literally word to word so now let's not be so stupid to compare him directly to Haaland and RVN or Anelka or Berbatov who never played a game as False 9 in their career while Martial clearly has :lol:

Literally shot yourself in the own foot.

Martial has to improve his game as a striker after playing as a left winger for so long but
A ) hes a false 9
B) hes had a shyte system for a false 9 with Daniel james and mata who wouldn't get the best out of any false 9.

Thanks for ending this conversation for me.

Could be worse. Your football knowledge could be as low as Pochetino or Mourinho's.
Yes mate! Everyone is just a human and ultimately these guys never would consider using a false 9 in their system whilst Klopp, Pep and Ole have - hopefully I'm in a different environment to you and your friends and 'Mourinho FC.'

Bye bye now.
 

Stacks

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Oh shocks! I'm glad you picked up our manager calling him a false 9 now literally word to word so now let's not be so stupid to compare him directly to Haaland and RVN or Anelka or Berbatov who never played a game as False 9 in their career while Martial clearly has :lol:

Literally shot yourself in the own foot.

Martial has to improve his game as a striker after playing as a left winger for so long but
A ) hes a false 9
B) hes had a shyte system for a false 9 with Daniel james and mata who wouldn't get the best out of any false 9.


Thanks for ending this conversation for me.



Yes mate! Everyone is just a human and ultimately these guys never would consider using a false 9 in their system whilst Klopp, Pep and Ole have - hopefully I'm in a different environment to you and your friends and 'Mourinho FC.'

Bye bye now.
Heard it hear folks. Cannot compare any aspect of Martial game to any other centre forward because he is a false 9.

Not even his shooting, because the false 9 shooting is different.

Not even to Berbatov who literally drops so deep he is an auxiliary attacking midfielder, spending most of his time linking play.....but since Martial plays "almost like a false 9" you cannot compare their link up abilities because the roles of their link up are vastly different.

I get it now. I am at peace
 

Handré1990

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Mate you've picked out a performance where literally for 3/4 of the time the system is wrong with a player like James player at RW.

You literally picked out a performance to agree with me because he didn't perform well with James for 58 minutes but you say the proof is that he didn't perform well with Greenwood for the rest of the 32 minutes of the match when Watford were 2-0 up after de gea's mistakes and penalties.

He literally played in a cr*p system the same way a player like Firmino would struggle with playing shaqiri on one side. How is that an excuse?

The fact is this 'anti martial' fan base have such poor understanding of football that see him having poor runs, him having poor touches, him being lazy, him being like Berbatov or Anelka, him being just better than Alan Smith, him being compared directly to the abilities of a striker who is a poacher whilst disregarding what he brings to the build up play of our attacks,when all he needs is a system to make him that 10% more consistent than he already is and on top of that; people keep acting like the 'fans of Martial' or the 'normal fans of United' wouldn't appreciate and love to see a different style of striker to him like Haaland here as well.

Do you know why?

Because alot of the fans of Martial see him as this interlinking false 9 player so we see the benefit of having him on top of a striker like Haaland who is a different type of striker.

That's why I disagree everytime someone compares Martial to Haaland or RVN, I feel like he doesnt play like that at all (has different positives and negatives) but if we make him play a type of football like those players instead of trying to get the best use out of him by playing his natural system then he wont progress further.

Like it's just so frustrating people disregarding the use of a false 9 forward in our squad one day even when we might have traditional striker on the squad aswell.

Rashford- Haaland/Greenwood
Martial
Or considering Martial is our only support striker in the squad

Haaland
Martial
Or Partnership as a striker as a support striker because his passing abilities are the best out of all the strikers in the squad

Martial -Haaland
It's so obvious why Ole wanted two right footed forwards and two left footed forwards. All 4 of different styles. One that can play deep, 2 that can play wide and one that can play as a more traditional approach forward but they all clearly blend to allow us to play flexible tactics.


System
 

Art Vandelay

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Oh shocks! I'm glad you picked up our manager calling him a false 9 now literally word to word so now let's not be so stupid to compare him directly to Haaland and RVN or Anelka or Berbatov who never played a game as False 9 in their career while Martial clearly has :lol:

Literally shot yourself in the own foot.

Martial has to improve his game as a striker after playing as a left winger for so long but
A ) hes a false 9
B) hes had a shyte system for a false 9 with Daniel james and mata who wouldn't get the best out of any false 9.

Thanks for ending this conversation for me.



Yes mate! Everyone is just a human and ultimately these guys never would consider using a false 9 in their system whilst Klopp, Pep and Ole have - hopefully I'm in a different environment to you and your friends and 'Mourinho FC.'

Bye bye now.
Are you mental? Is that what your problem is? You keep saying bye to people but then producing these insane and weirdly aggressive rants because they don't agree with you about a football player.

Bye....? Enjoy your environment, I'll tell my friends at Mourinho FC you said hello and probably bye.

I'm just going to put this here...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/01/18/mauricio-pochettino-can-play-dele-alli-false-no-9-like-lionel/

and this...

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/dele-alli-tottenham-harry-kane-replacement-striker-mauricio-pochettino

Oh and this...

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-latest-news-dele-alli-jose-mourinho-premier-league-a4376201.html

I dunno who those Spurs managers were. Definitely humans though...

Bye?
 

Bebestation

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Heard it hear folks. Cannot compare any aspect of Martial game to any other centre forward because he is a false 9.

Not even his shooting, because the false 9 shooting is different.

Not even to Berbatov who literally drops so deep he is an auxiliary attacking midfielder, spending most of his time linking play.....but since Martial plays "almost like a false 9" you cannot compare their link up abilities because the roles of their link up are vastly different.

I get it now. I am at peace
:lol:

Talking about Berbatov when he was much more like Ozil in his work rate in comparison to Martial who literally starts in our own corner flag to defend and start counter attacks and has much more pace.

Is that why you call Berbatov an auxiliary attacking midfielder ;)

Well Berbatov didn't exactly fail at Spurs so is this based on his time at United only? Should he have been used as a false 9 at United?

The thing is Berbatov as a false 9 makes sense but Rooney as a false 9 absolutely demolishes the guy and Berbatov had other abilities the squad lacked anyway so what is the point? Even if he got the chance doesnt mean he would be successful, Zlatan was another striker who drops deeps and literally moved to Barcelona to play under Pep and couldn't even control a football in his system and Zlatan shites on Berbatov playing for the same reason you think Berbatov could play as a false 9.

I'm at peace sunshine.

Continue talking about Berbatov and avoid talking about the rest off my post only highlighting things about Berbatov because you want to rate Berbatov better than Martial.

By the way, Ole called him like a false 9 - maybe use your head and try compare with him to players who actually played in false 9 in their career then previously or currently - not bloody Anelka,Berbatov, Haaland, RVN who may have been good enough playing in that position in your POIQ or most likely play a completely different role of a striker itself and you will see why some fans compare Martial to Firmino- literally one of the only false 9 who plays in world football anymore and Martial isnt doing too bad in comparison considering the system and players is nowhere near perfect either.

But yeah bring Berbatov in to it.

Rest in peace.

Take care and let's call it a day here.
 

OleBoiii

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I can't be bothered to read up on the madness...

Is Martial the new player that divides fans? You know, like Nani, Berbatov, Kagawa etc..