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2019-20 Performances


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Andre Kagawa

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Does anyone remember that guy on the caf who hated Martial because he was barely in his 20’s and had 2-3 relationships already and attributed his poor form under Jose to “having sex on the brain too much”?
Perfectly clear!
 

Skills

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Can't remember the exact names but there were a whole lot of weirdos shitting on him that summer it looked like he might be pushed out by Jose after daring to leave the meaningless US preseason/PR tour to go back home for the birth of his son.

The amount of personal attacks on his character and lifestyle as a young 22 year old was shocking and I'm glad much of that toxicity left with Jose. He did a nasty number on a lot of the fanbase
I mean it's a question then worth asking why is our fanbase so susceptible to this? What is actually fundamentally wrong with our fanbase?
 

KennyBurner

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I remember when some guy, probably the same guy being referred here who claimed that Martial was autistic or some nonsense like that. :lol:
I’m so glad those rumors are dead. Don’t want to look up those comments but there were a few claiming his Lyon coaches said he was daft. :lol: :lol:
All because he won’t smile.
 

Stacks

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I'm happy with him as our #9 going into next season. For me, he's not only been our most consistent attacker, but has been our best player in general this season.

One thing that shouldn't go unnoticed that he displayed this season as a CF was his versatility in the position. Pre Bruno (& Pogba coming back), he was playing as a false 9. He had to do this because we lacked the players capable of getting the ball to him on a consistent basis, so he'd constantly have to come deep to create for himself and others. He was brilliant in this role.

Then, after signing Fernandes (&, later on, Pogba returning), he started playing like a classic 9 because we actually had midfielders capable of getting the ball forwards now. He was brilliant in this role, too.

There aren't many CFs who can play both style of 9 to the same level as him.

Regarding his stats, they're impressive in and of themselves. Especially when you take into account that he missed two months of the season, was playing as a CF for the first time on a consistent basis in his senior career, and was playing with only one player on his level for about half a season.

In the Premiership, he was joint first with Raul in assists for CFs, and when you look at some of the huge chances missed this season, he could've had more. His throughballs to onrushing FBs/wingers when deep shouldn't go unnoticed either. They were key to many of the chances created in the earlier parts of the season whilst playing as more of a false 9.

With his goal tally in the league, some might see that he didn't reach 20 and assume he can't do it, but context is needed. First, he was hardly getting chances in the first half of the season due to our poor creativity. Then you need to factor in the two months he missed. You then have to remember that, unlike most of the other CFs in the league, he doesn't take penalties. When you look at just goals from open play, I believe he was the 3rd top goalscorer in the league this season. If, like his CF counterparts, he took pens, he could've probably won the golden boot considering we got 14 of them, was it?

Ability wise I think he's one of our most talented CFs ever. A lot better than Saha, and that's no disrespect to Saha who was talented. That's not to say I think he's already one of our best CFs. I'm just talking about ability alone as per your own statement.

I'll finish off by saying that along with his physical talent, I think he's one of our most mentally strong players, too. There are a load of examples of this, but you can just look to recently to save time. When Pogba, Fernandes, Rashford and Greenwood all looked shattered/done at different points of our last few games, Martial was the one constant who was constantly playing well; keeping us on track for that 3rd spot we won.
where would you place him on the list? I am hoping he can become for Ole, what Yorke was for Fergie (for a longer time obviously)
 

manutddjw

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I mean it's a question then worth asking why is our fanbase so susceptible to this? What is actually fundamentally wrong with our fanbase?
I have a theory on this. I think it's because most of them grew up in the Sir Alex era and when people asked who you supported and the answer would be Manchester United, people rolled their eyes and assumed you were a glory hunter. When we started doing poorly by our standards it was their chance to prove they were no glory hunter and tolerated mediocrity to show they were still supporters. I've seen legends and the few good players we had like Pogba and Martial get bashed mercilessly, yet up until recently if you dared criticize Lingard, who even at his best form a couple years ago wasn't up to the standard we require from an attacker you'd be slated for it.

That and social media. You can spot them a mile away with their unrealistic transfer list (they do well with net spend totals usually). If you go on Twitter I'm willing to bet that Benoit guy we just got linked with is so much better than Maguire. They read stuff on Twitter and assume it's 100% fact and that's where they form their opinions from without ever watching the game.
 

Revan

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I mean it's a question then worth asking why is our fanbase so susceptible to this? What is actually fundamentally wrong with our fanbase?
Having had a God-Emperor manager for 3 decades have created that mentality to a large part of the fanbase, that supporting the manager is the most important thing. Thing is, Fergie got that status cause he was Sir Alex Ferguson and made us so successful, not cause he was a random manager. But unfortunately, a lot of our fans seem to have the same worshipping for any manager we hire, and consequently the manager > any player. If Glazers make me a manger today for shit and giggles, my status here would change from the average poster to an almighty God, and then if I would decide to drop to reserves Bruno and Greenwood, half of the fanbase would shit on them immediately.
 

Skills

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Having had a God-Emperor manager for 3 decades have created that mentality to a large part of the fanbase, that supporting the manager is the most important thing. Thing is, Fergie got that status cause he was Sir Alex Ferguson and made us so successful, not cause he was a random manager. But unfortunately, a lot of our fans seem to have the same worshipping for any manager we hire, and consequently the manager > any player. If Glazers make me a manger today for shit and giggles, my status here would change from the average poster to an almighty God, and then if I would decide to drop to reserves Bruno and Greenwood, half of the fanbase would shit on them immediately.
So any theories on how the club can go about addressing this? What can the club do to fix its weird fanbase with a cult syndrome and severe separation anxiety?

Maybe we should start "stigging" our next managers. Hide the guys identity, put a NDA in the players contract to reveal who it is and just hire an actor to make press appearances while the real guy does the job on the training ground. Deprive the fanbase of a figure to cult up around and the club can just do its thing in the background - because we arguably have one of the damaging fanbases in football. Its the fanbase that cost us CL football by not letting the club sack Mourinho in October and probably kept someone like Moyes another 6 months in his job.
 

Sayros

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So any theories on how the club can go about addressing this? What can the club do to fix its weird fanbase with a cult syndrome and severe separation anxiety?

Maybe we should start "stigging" our next managers. Hide the guys identity, put a NDA in the players contract to reveal who it is and just hire an actor to make press appearances while the real guy does the job on the training ground. Deprive the fanbase of a figure to cult up around and the club can just do its thing in the background - because we arguably have one of the damaging fanbases in football. Its the fanbase that cost us CL football by not letting the club sack Mourinho in October and probably kept someone like Moyes another 6 months in his job.
The thing to keep in mind is that section of the fanbase is a small minority, the moaners, hateful, spoiled, entitled voices we see here or on social media, they're a tiny portion of the overall fanbase, I don't think it's really anything to worry about. Most fans don't go on social media or message boards. How to deal with it here and on social media? I just wouldn't.
 

Revan

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So any theories on how the club can go about addressing this? What can the club do to fix its weird fanbase with a cult syndrome and severe separation anxiety?

Maybe we should start "stigging" our next managers. Hide the guys identity, put a NDA in the players contract to reveal who it is and just hire an actor to make press appearances while the real guy does the job on the training ground. Deprive the fanbase of a figure to cult up around and the club can just do its thing in the background - because we arguably have one of the damaging fanbases in football. Its the fanbase that cost us CL football by not letting the club sack Mourinho in October and probably kept someone like Moyes another 6 months in his job.
Hire and fire a manager within the same day. Then repeat it for an entire month. Hopefully then people might realize that the manager is just an (important) employee, instead of the universe rotating around him.
 
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gajender

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So any theories on how the club can go about addressing this? What can the club do to fix its weird fanbase with a cult syndrome and severe separation anxiety?

Maybe we should start "stigging" our next managers. Hide the guys identity, put a NDA in the players contract to reveal who it is and just hire an actor to make press appearances while the real guy does the job on the training ground. Deprive the fanbase of a figure to cult up around and the club can just do its thing in the background - because we arguably have one of the damaging fanbases in football. Its the fanbase that cost us CL football by not letting the club sack Mourinho in October and probably kept someone like Moyes another 6 months in his job.
You are giving far too much credit to our fan base in their influence on how Club operates, Van Gaal was fired straight after we won FA Cup how bad were optics of that but we still did it, Moyes was relieved once Champions league qualification was out of equation , Mourinho was given time to turn it around but was sacked when situation became untenable and was also not allowed to have his way in terms of players sale.
You do seem to have liking for making mountain out of a mole hill.
 

roonster09

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I remember when some guy, probably the same guy being referred here who claimed that Martial was autistic or some nonsense like that. :lol:
Haram, dude is posting in Inter forums saying how Lukaku is the best player at Inter. Such a weirdo.
 

roonster09

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Its the fanbase that cost us CL football by not letting the club sack Mourinho in October and probably kept someone like Moyes another 6 months in his job.
:lol:
 

SteveW

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Martial has been the biggest positive for us this season imo. We all know how gifted he is but the transformation in his attitude has been incredible.

He's been like a man possessed since the restart. Fit, strong and brimming with determination. Nobody has pressed harder and done more of the dirty work over the last few weeks than Tony. Tireless. Even his celebrations for his goals and the goals of others have been passionate. He looks absolutely all in right now. I'd love to know where its come from, whether it be Ole has managed to get in his head, or whether he is just really excited about where the team is going and his part in it.

Along with a couple of others he's pretty much dragged us into 3rd place over the last few weeks and it was absolutely fitting that he was the one who won the penalty against Leicester.

The question has always been just how good could he be if he had an elite mentality and determination to be the best he could be. The signs are beginning to show that we might actually find out over the next couple of seasons. Fingers crossed it continues because he's been a pleasure to watch in recent weeks.
 

KennyBurner

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Martial has been the biggest positive for us this season imo. We all know how gifted he is but the transformation in his attitude has been incredible.

He's been like a man possessed since the restart. Fit, strong and brimming with determination. Nobody has pressed harder and done more of the dirty work over the last few weeks than Tony. Tireless. Even his celebrations for his goals and the goals of others have been passionate. He looks absolutely all in right now. I'd love to know where its come from, whether it be Ole has managed to get in his head, or whether he is just really excited about where the team is going and his part in it.

Along with a couple of others he's pretty much dragged us into 3rd place over the last few weeks and it was absolutely fitting that he was the one who won the penalty against Leicester.

The question has always been just how good could he be if he had an elite mentality and determination to be the best he could be. The signs are beginning to show that we might actually find out over the next couple of seasons. Fingers crossed it continues because he's been a pleasure to watch in recent weeks.
Its always been there. During Van gaals season i remember him stepping up against westham to try and win us top 4 before our defense let us down. During mourinhos era he kept him within the job scoring 9 goals and 9 assists by December before he was replaced by sanchez. Martial has always stepped up and had this elite mentality we are pretending he just suddenly got. English media has poisoned the casual fans idea of him. Along with Pogba these guys are very good and will perform in a team that plays football. Football is a team sport and there are no saviors in it. We cant expect our best players to carry a team in transition all because we are United.
 

SteveW

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Its always been there. During Van gaals season i remember him stepping up against westham to try and win us top 4 before our defense let us down. During mourinhos era he kept him within the job scoring 9 goals and 9 assists by December before he was replaced by sanchez. Martial has always stepped up and had this elite mentality we are pretending he just suddenly got. English media has poisoned the casual fans idea of him. Along with Pogba these guys are very good and will perform in a team that plays football. Football is a team sport and there are no saviors in it. We cant expect our best players to carry a team in transition all because we are United.
I've always been a huge Martial supporter but I have to disagree with you. His work rate and willingness to do the dirty work is much improved and the difference is very obvious. It's not some conspiracy against him to suggest it hasn't always been at this level.

Solskjaer has even mentioned it on a few occasions. Here's one recent quote for example.

"You can see his work rate, his foundation. There were some stats last season on our strikers, and he's really taken up the challenge and answered the questions I asked of work rate. We have to start from the front with our pressing, and he's really taken that on board.
 

Lj82

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Its always been there. During Van gaals season i remember him stepping up against westham to try and win us top 4 before our defense let us down. During mourinhos era he kept him within the job scoring 9 goals and 9 assists by December before he was replaced by sanchez. Martial has always stepped up and had this elite mentality we are pretending he just suddenly got. English media has poisoned the casual fans idea of him. Along with Pogba these guys are very good and will perform in a team that plays football. Football is a team sport and there are no saviors in it. We cant expect our best players to carry a team in transition all because we are United.
Well said. Good post
 

Lj82

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I've always been a huge Martial supporter but I have to disagree with you. His work rate and willingness to do the dirty work is much improved and the difference is very obvious. It's not some conspiracy against him to suggest it hasn't always been at this level.

Solskjaer has even mentioned it on a few occasions. Here's one recent quote for example.

"You can see his work rate, his foundation. There were some stats last season on our strikers, and he's really taken up the challenge and answered the questions I asked of work rate. We have to start from the front with our pressing, and he's really taken that on board.
I don't think the issue was with mentality. Under Mourinho defended as requested by the coach. But the team wasn't set up to press high up. It's just a completely different role.

I think what Kennyburner was talking about in terms of elite mentality for Martial is that when chips are down, he rises to the occasion. I share the same sentiments since his first season. As a 19 year old in his first season in the EPL, I found it incredible how quickly he became the driving force behind the team. Besides the Westham game, there was also the FA Cup semi finals where he single handedly pushed us into the final
 

SteveW

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I don't think the issue was with mentality. Under Mourinho defended as requested by the coach. But the team wasn't set up to press high up. It's just a completely different role.

I think what Kennyburner was talking about in terms of elite mentality for Martial is that when chips are down, he rises to the occasion. I share the same sentiments since his first season. As a 19 year old in his first season in the EPL, I found it incredible how quickly he became the driving force behind the team. Besides the Westham game, there was also the FA Cup semi finals where he single handedly pushed us into the final
Then he misunderstood because my post was clearly about workrate and determination.

Martial usually performs in big games. He hasn't always worked as hard as he's been doing lately. Battling with defenders, winning dirty ball etc. He's working tirelessly now.

I hope the loons in here won't somehow turn this praise into a perceived criticism.
 

KennyBurner

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Then he misunderstood because my post was clearly about workrate and determination.

Martial usually performs in big games. He hasn't always worked as hard as he's been doing lately. Battling with defenders, winning dirty ball etc. He's working tirelessly now.

I hope the loons in here won't somehow turn this praise into a perceived criticism.
Its not a surprise issues about his workrate came about under mourinho. Under mourinho the whole team did not press. Wasn't there a stat that highlighted how we were 17th or so in a distance related metric? That could be down to the managers reactionary tactics and poor fitness training. Now Im not saying he likes to press as a player but he certainly has never been lazy. The most I would say is disinterested and even then I wouldn't blame him giving most players tend to fall out with mourinho. The thing about your 'praise' is that it highlights a perceived weakness that was never an issue. He is not the type of player that wastes unnecessary energy for the sake of it. he wont press like firmino but he will press well enough if instructed too.
 

SteveW

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Its not a surprise issues about his workrate came about under mourinho. Under mourinho the whole team did not press. Wasn't there a stat that highlighted how we were 17th or so in a distance related metric? That could be down to the managers reactionary tactics and poor fitness training. Now Im not saying he likes to press as a player but he certainly has never been lazy. The most I would say is disinterested and even then I wouldn't blame him giving most players tend to fall out with mourinho. The thing about your 'praise' is that it highlights a perceived weakness that was never an issue. He is not the type of player that wastes unnecessary energy for the sake of it. he wont press like firmino but he will press well enough if instructed too.
Manager challenges him to work harder. He works harder. I praise him for working harder. Martial FC takes it as a slight and insists he's working just as hard as always.

Whoevers idea it is, he's been putting in a shift and no longer looks "disinterested" to use your description. Long may it continue.
 

Bebestation

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Love it. Not sure who those two mugs Ronaldo was gliding past but you don't get a more formidable defensive pairing than Wes Morgan and Jonny Evans!
A total guess but one seems like cannavaro with hair
 

Andersons Dietician

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Love it. Not sure who those two mugs Ronaldo was gliding past but you don't get a more formidable defensive pairing than Wes Morgan and Jonny Evans!
I think it’s Nesta and Canavaro semi decent mugs.
 

POF

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A total guess but one seems like cannavaro with hair
I wasn't being serious. It was a nice side by side comparison, until you saw who the defenders were!

Two of the top Italian defenders of all time or Wes Morgan and Jonny Evans. Not even Helen would pick the latter pair.
 

Bebestation

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I've always been a huge Martial supporter but I have to disagree with you. His work rate and willingness to do the dirty work is much improved and the difference is very obvious. It's not some conspiracy against him to suggest it hasn't always been at this level.

Solskjaer has even mentioned it on a few occasions. Here's one recent quote for example.

"You can see his work rate, his foundation. There were some stats last season on our strikers, and he's really taken up the challenge and answered the questions I asked of work rate. We have to start from the front with our pressing, and he's really taken that on board.
I dont get why that's down to Martial though?

One of Ole's main tactics is work rate - he joined the club and said he wants a high energy, high work rate team in the idea of having the ability to press and much more.

As a tactic Ole bought that to the team and Martial therefore adapted his gameplay to fit to it. That doesn't mean he changed his work rate purely because he improved his mental state - it shows that he is playing to a team tactic.

Mourinho and LVG weren't such a hard working team in comparison to Ole. Mourinho played very narrow and usually would rather have forwards track back (especially LW's and RW's) than face the opposition goal and work hard in that direction. Martial got called lazy for that because of the tactics that were played back then which individually highlighted players - Ole came and changed the team dynamic and tactics to a hard working team and Martial then adapted like alot of the other players.

I think his work rate has improved due to tactics just as much as everyone else in the squad and he was highlighted as lazy because the tactics we used during the past couple years wasn't primarily asking for that.
 

SteveW

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Can't even praise him on this thread without getting argued with

They'd probably contradict Ole when he said he's working harder. Can't win.

Either way. Martial is killing it right now. Great to see him looking like a complete number 9. Should shut a lot of people up.
 

pratyush_utd

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It's like people don't remember Neville's famous defence of Rooney as " Silent Dominator" when we were playing under LVG. We just didn't play the same way we do now. This led to incorrect opinion on Martial play style. And also Mourinho unfair outburst against him.

Found this montage on Reddit during Mourinho time


Also this notion of Martial lazy attitude is also false. He always turned up in big matches for LVG. He literally saved Mourinho job for extra 2-3 months. It seems like anyone who tries to point these things out gets labelled as "Martial FC". It's quite strange how our fanbase have become in last few years. Mostly down to Mourinho toxic behaviour. Chelsea fans were calling Hazard a rat when he left them and a year later Hazard won them the league.
 

JPRouve

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I dont get why that's down to Martial though?

One of Ole's main tactics is work rate - he joined the club and said he wants a high energy, high work rate team in the idea of having the ability to press and much more.

As a tactic Ole bought that to the team and Martial therefore adapted his gameplay to fit to it. That doesn't mean he changed his work rate purely because he improved his mental state - it shows that he is playing to a team tactic.

Mourinho and LVG weren't such a hard working team in comparison to Ole. Mourinho played very narrow and usually would rather have forwards track back (especially LW's and RW's) than face the opposition goal and work hard in that direction. Martial got called lazy for that because of the tactics that were played back then which individually highlighted players - Ole came and changed the team dynamic and tactics to a hard working team and Martial then adapted like alot of the other players.

I think his work rate has improved due to tactics just as much as everyone else in the squad and he was highlighted as lazy because the tactics we used during the past couple years wasn't primarily asking for that.
That's only true for Mourinho, we had one of the hardest working team under LVG and it had better running stats than Ole's team. During LVG's last season we were 5th in terms of distance covered and this season before the restart we were 12th.
 

KennyBurner

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That's only true for Mourinho, we had one of the hardest working team under LVG and it had better running stats than Ole's team. During LVG's last season we were 5th in terms of distance covered and this season before the restart we were 12th.
Martial wasn’t deemed lazy back then and he also played most of his time on the wing which required lots of running and defending. Mourinho really ruined us.