[amolbhatia50k]

Where has this guy been since 2017?

Always liked Martial. His highlights reel from his time here is absolutely fantastic. And while of course consistency is important, we have to consider the state of our team and management in this period. Our midfield /playmaker creativity has been the pits these last 6 years as has the attacking contribution from fullbacks to boot. Given he's also had to endure being managed by Jose and his track back directions and hard handedness, despite all of that, he remains the United player I look forward to watching play the most (with Pogba following). These are the kind of classy footballers we need more of. And he's had his moments under Mourinho too. That start in 17/18 before he got shoved around for Sanchez. The spell in 18/19 where he was saving Mourinho's backside.

Hope he kicks on now. But for both his and Rashfords sake, I do hope our level of coaching and creativity from midfield increases. They'll need it to fulfill their potential.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Amazing striker, just so complete. He can flick it, he can turn and drive, he has amazing composure, has great movement, extremely strong on the ball, great decision making.

He's playing like the Brazilian Ronaldo 2.0 sadly he has no one with any interest in creating for him.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Amazing striker, just so complete. He can flick it, he can turn and drive, he has amazing composure, has great movement, extremely strong on the ball, great decision making.

He's playing like the Brazilian Ronaldo 2.0 sadly he has no one with any interest in creating for him.

White text?

 

[Art Vandelay]

White text?

You got that far before looking for the white text?

 

[RooneyLegend]

White text?

Nope, Ronnie post injury used to have this lazy style fused with perfect centre forward play that we see from Martial these days.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Funny what a few months can do.

Not seeing your point

 

[Sea-Cow]

Nope, Ronnie post injury used to have this lazy style fused with perfect centre forward play that we see from Martial these days.

I admit that I didn't catch the meaning of your "2.0" and that you were referring specifically to post-injury Ronaldo. So I apologize for my smart-assed response.

But still mate, "perfect" center-forward play is just a bit much, no? He was basically non-existent against Bournemouth and their CBs time and again brushed him aside to beat him to our attempts to play to his feet. Maybe we can give him a small pass for that being so soon on his return from his latest injury, but I have yet to see anything "perfect" from any United player in many many years.

 

[Sea-Cow]

And are these stats accurate? He got two assists against Brighton, correct? So he really had zero before that?

 

[432JuanMata]

Ok Martial is good this season and we are miles better with him in the team but he does get seriously overrated on here. I think he can hit the level of world class in a year or two but he isn’t there yet

 

[settembrini]

And are these stats accurate? He got two assists against Brighton, correct? So he really had zero before that?

They are inaccurate. He has only been given 1 assist for the Brighton game when he should have 2.

https://www.redcafe.net/matches/manchester-united-vs-brighton-hove-albion.301/discussion

 

[JPRouve]

They are inaccurate. He has only been given 1 assist for the Brighton game when he should have 2.

https://www.redcafe.net/matches/manchester-united-vs-brighton-hove-albion.301/discussion

Officially, he has two assists for the brighton game and one for the Crystal Palace game.

 

[flappyjay]

Martial didn't accidentally lost his place many times. He has always been unstable and eventually lost his fit form after 5-6 (or even less) matches. That's why Mourinho dropped him. I clear remember last PL fixtures of the season 2016/2017 where Martial looked so clueless and useless. And above all could you imagine he would survive so long at Chelsea or Real Madrid with that perfomance impermanence? It's just ridiculous that we babysit so many average players giving them a chance by chance and expecting from them top devotion for years. That's exactly why we stucked in the swamp of mediocrity and fight at least for the 4th place almost every season. The management have to demand much more from players as well as managers and fans have to. We shouldn't do this damn player-sitting.

Nah I disagree. By the time Sanchez arrived Martial had adapted to José's football. He was playing before Alexis came and got dropped after a few bad performances from the right. Where he would switch wings only when things were bad. He lost his confidence and also got injured, didn't show form for the rest of the season. Fast forward to first half of last season, again he was marginalized and was 3rd choice. Was also somehow getting hate for going to the birth of his child and staying by the moms side. Once again won his place back, him and Pogba were in great form, what little points we won were mostly from his goals

 

[Leonzo1]

Anthony is the closest player i can think of in terms of style of play to Firmino. Very similar players. Technical,Quick feet,very good interplay with other forward options,great back to goal ability. My point is that even if he doesn't hit 20 this season (which I think he will) that doesn't mean he isn't good enough to be our number 9. If the guy will stay fit for the rest of the season and get a consistent run at the number 9 role we will see more and more of what he brings to our play apart from putting the ball in the back of the net.

 

[Foxbatt]

He lacks a midfield player who can partner him.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

One of those where if I criticise him I'll get slaughtered because we had no midfield but his movement was shocking. This was always one of the doubts of him being our long term CF.

 

[rooney2009]

Bad or good Today
As soon as they took him off..I knew we were in trouble

 

[flappyjay]

Bad or good Today
As soon as they took him off..I knew we were in trouble

They no longer feared our counter attack and took the initiative

 

[Stadjer]

Not his best game but i dont think Messi, Neymar or Mbappe would be good with Pereira behind them.

He was still very important for the 3-2 after he had a good combination with James.

 

[Canagel]

Only man capable of holding the ball up under the pressure and gets taken off to start defending again. Shambolic call that deserved to be punished.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

One of those where if I criticise him I'll get slaughtered because we had no midfield but his movement was shocking. This was always one of the doubts of him being our long term CF.

Was his movement really that bad though? Kept dropping deep for it to link play and made runs and just wasn’t found. He also played a hand in 2 of our goals.

His hold up at times in that first 70 was not great but when Rashford went closer to him he really started to influence the game. I do think at times it’s unfair to really have a go at our front 3 as there is nothing coming from behind them and at times we move the ball so slowly that these guys have made the run expecting the ball and then 10 seconds later someone plays the pass to them and by that time they are covered again.

 

[roonster09]

He was poor today, especially before the come back started. His touch was poor and struggled to hold the ball. Did well for the third goal. Shouldn't have taken him off as we were countering well but considering we had 4-2-4 at that time, it made sense. I didn't like the decision at all, wanted to continue playing like that.

 

[The Mitcher]

Only man capable of holding the ball up under the pressure and gets taken off to start defending again. Shambolic call that deserved to be punished.

He failed to hold the ball up consistently for most of the match though, it was the worst part of his game today. What were you watching? The only reason that sub was a failure, was not because of the hold-up play but the pace and finishing ability he has.

 

[lsd]

Has he walked of the pitch yet ?

 

[DoomSlayer]

Only man capable of holding the ball up under the pressure and gets taken off to start defending again. Shambolic call that deserved to be punished.

He didn't hold the ball well at all today and I'm a big fan of his as most have seen by my posts in the Haaland thread.

 

[NoPace]

He puts the rest of the team under pressure with his complete disinterest in the game at virtually all times, but he's still our 6th or 7th best player because he's so talented. Badly needs the right manager to diagnose his problems with movement and reading play.

A top 10 striker in the Prem in certain situations (basically if the opponents have a fairly high line and his teammates can get him the ball to feet and not back to goal or with crosses) and a bottom 5 striker in the Prem whenever the ball is out wide or the other team is sitting deep.

We have money so no real need to sell, but I think getting 80M for him and spending half on a competent midfielder and half on a #9 who works for the team and can attack a cross would make us a better team.

 

[Kostur]

I still find it shocking that with all Ole training he's still not capable of making near post runs.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Its his neat control, turn and pass to Dan James that leads to the first goal.

Small things that probably get missed.

 

[2mufc0]

Its his neat control, turn and pass to Dan James that leads to the first goal.

Small things that probably get missed.

People are really knee jerk around here especially when they have their eyes set on other players that could possibly come in. He's scored or assisted in 5 out of 7 full games he's played in the league for us. And we are clearly a better team when he plays, like any other player he will have off days like yesterday, esp with that midfield behind him too.

 

[PaulRich]

Not his best day but the sub was a master stroke in self destruction.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Didn't really get going until the 60th minute, but then came alive and created 2 goals for us.

We have to find a way to get these lot determined in every match. The front 3 all struggled until Sheffield got tired.

 

[Sea-Cow]

He was infuriating today. He was so soft and disinterested and was absolutely dominated by Phil Fing Jagielka!

How many times did he have a poor first touch followed by getting easily brushed aside without a care in the world. Its like he's surprised that the defenders were allowed to step in to win back possession.

He just wasn't up for the fight, plain and simple. Just like at Bournemouth. The CBs are playing out of their mind and challenging for every ball, so he decides its not worth it.

 

[Wade3]

He puts the rest of the team under pressure with his complete disinterest in the game at virtually all times, but he's still our 6th or 7th best player because he's so talented. Badly needs the right manager to diagnose his problems with movement and reading play.

A top 10 striker in the Prem in certain situations (basically if the opponents have a fairly high line and his teammates can get him the ball to feet and not back to goal or with crosses) and a bottom 5 striker in the Prem whenever the ball is out wide or the other team is sitting deep.

We have money so no real need to sell, but I think getting 80M for him and spending half on a competent midfielder and half on a #9 who works for the team and can attack a cross would make us a better team.

Just out of curiosity, who is better than him in our team?

Other than your laughable transfer ideas, I'm very interested in hearing your list and your reasons for it.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Just out of curiosity, who is better than him in our team?

Other than your laughable transfer ideas, I'm very interested in hearing your list and your reasons for it.

DDG, Pogba, Maguire, Rashford, AWB, and James. Easily.

 

[Bebestation]

He is so obviously a false 9, a player who needs to play deeper than the front wider two to do those quick passes that cut through the defences.

He doesn't just do it once a season - he does it bloody every game. Sometimes he reminds me of a strikers version of Ozil the way he can interlink the front two and what looks like his work rate issues.

However - I don't think it's that he doesn't want to push around the central defenders - it's the fact that soon as he does, he has an inability to drop deep in between the spaces to make those shifts and passes for Rashford or James(what should eventually be Greenwood as RF).

He needs to be the most centralised striker but also the most deepest striker to be consistently effective like an AM. We talk about Firminho alot but the truth is even if he does makes the runs behind the defence - that's not what he does and its much more the role of Mane & Salah - likewise it should be Rashford & eventually Greenwood or in the future someone like Haaland with his left foot who does that and play off Martial.

Rashford - Greenwood
Martial

Instead of

Rashford Martial James

Will make a small but significant difference to the fluidity of the front 3.

I feel sorry for our attackers because whether they are good enough or not - these obvious changes makes their jobs harder from managers decisions. Martial is not a get in to the box type of striker & neither should he be trained to become one - we saw yesterday that Greenwood has that ability much better and Martial is better playing deeper where we wait for players like Pereira & Lingard to do stuff.


We may have looked like we were attacking with a 424 yesterday but we didn't. All that happened was martial was allowed to drop back to an almost CAM position and our attack became hella fluid so it couldn't be contained.

 

[Lynty]

Breaking news: there is a direct correlation between Martial's form and Manchester United's form.

 

[AltiUn]

Didn't really get going until the 60th minute, but then came alive and created 2 goals for us.

We have to find a way to get these lot determined in every match. The front 3 all struggled until Sheffield got tired.

Probably need to figure out how to get them involved more than anything, in the first half yesterday they must have had less than 10 passes from midfield, which is becoming more and more apparent is the gaping hole in this team.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Probably need to figure out how to get them involved more than anything, in the first half yesterday they must have had less than 10 passes from midfield, which is becoming more and more apparent is the gaping hole in this team.

Which is sort of what I mean though, if you're not in the game you need to get involved. Drop a little deeper, move a bit differently.

Not once do I remember them giving a run in behind for a ball over the top. Everything was trying to get to feet and be the perfect pass. Only James was really grafting, but his touch was all over the place at first. That nervous pass he did and gave it away (when he got bollocked by Maguire) summed us up perfectly.

Maybe Martial should have dropped more into midfield to help build up possession.

 

[NoPace]

Just out of curiosity, who is better than him in our team?

Other than your laughable transfer ideas, I'm very interested in hearing your list and your reasons for it.

Haven't watched enough non-Prem this year to say (and that's where the value is by and large) so don't necessarily have a strong opinion on if the obvious targets (young, productive in good leagues and still at "selling clubs" or likely to move) like Osimhen, Werner (he's got some of the same faults as Martial but there's a bit of Vardy in him too), Milik or Dembele would be better. Odds are one or two will be one one or two won't.

I just meant that a front 6 of:

Rashford-Martial-James
---Pogba------McTominay
-------------Fred----------------

is probably a bit worse than a more balanced front 6 of say:

Rashford---Haller------James
-----Pogba-----Tielemans------
----------McTominay----------------

and we probably could have signed Tielemans and Haller for 100M combined this summer and sold Martial and another squad player like Lingard or Jones for a similar amount. We'd be less spectacular at our best, but we wouldn't have the insane dips we've had either.

As for our team, do you really think Martial is currently outperforming De Gea, Pogba, Rashford, Wan-Bissaka or James? I'd have him around 6th or 7th in terms of actual week to week performance (value above average Prem starter at their position, which seems like the best way to judge things) along with Maguire and McTominay. Pogba and De Gea go without saying and most teams would kill for a LW with the goal threat of Rashford or the best defensive RB in the league. James, McTominay, Maguire and Martial all been above average Prem starters but James nicks it for me (and I think with Greenwood or another 9 up front who can get on the end of a cross he'd have a couple more assists, as Martial is genuinely the worst striker in the league in this regard), though I'd bet on Maguire putting some better form together and getting into the Rashford/WanBissaka group even with his issues.

Martial has 37 goals in 90 starts and 41 sub appearances for us. That's basically 12 goals or so in a full season for a very healthy Prem starter if my math is correct. Is that really any better than an average Prem striker like Josh King or Danny Ings would get for us? I'd put the number right around there personally, and they'd certainly do more off the ball and defensively, right?

Martial can become a great player and on certain teams I think he'd be a very good one now, but for us I'd just say pretty good, a team of his level players finishes 6th-8th, which is where we'll probably finish with him as a middle of the packer starter (say 7th of 11 since you really have 14-15 first choice players with injuries and suspensions and rotation).

 

[Suedesi]

Only man capable of holding the ball up under the pressure and gets taken off to start defending again. Shambolic call that deserved to be punished.

Yup, that substitution was such a basic and stupid mistake. I never, ever want to see Rashford playing as #9, especially when Tony Martial is available. Marcus cannot hold a candle to Martial when it comes to CF play. Holding the ball up, bringing others into play, finishing, Martial is FAR superior. Rashford is a kick and rush merchant comparatively.

 

[flappyjay]

Before Martial came back from injury this team couldn't score more that 1 goal a game, Rashford was again being be ridiculed and called a nothing player. Fast forward to Martial being back again and the team scoring goals again but he is somehow being made into the teams weak link. If the midfield before attacking our strikers.

We are probably seeing 60% of this forward lines potential because of our midfield. Had Martial dropped any deeper against Sheffield he would have been playing in midfield that's how bad it was.