I disagree quite heavily on that point. We need more players that are comfortable under pressure to break down low block defences, he would be quite good alongside someone like Haaland because he would open a huge amount of space for the big brute to attack.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 23
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 1
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I fecking hope so. Tired of his lazy style and constant dribbling into defenders. Loses the ball and looks up at the sky instead of trying to win it back. Berbatov was slated as being a lazy style but his output puts Martial to shame. We won't get anywhere as long as Martial is our first choice #9.
Martial was one of our better players today and by far the best of the attacking four. He was sharp and strong on the ball, and he also did show more desire to get in the box than usual. Nothing amazing but still a good performance.
This plus the fact that the players he is passing the ball wide to are faster than him, hard to release James and catch up to his cross as he is so quick. He could do more to force the issue at times but I think when the ball is played outside people like Lingard should run beyond him to add numbers in the box.
Ideally we should have someone who is more of a right forward rather than a traditional winger who can score and create a variety of goals instead of the old school run and cross.
@Rawls @bond19821982
The other thing is, people will talk alot about martial's work rate & will usually highlight the fact that he doesn't make runs in to the box as a sign of him being lazy.
The truth is - to get him to work harder you have to make him drop deeper and deeper in to midfield.
You see it with Martial, he drops so deep to get the ball to hist feet and to bring others in to play with a great first touch ultimately in CAM positions before he attempts to make a run in to the box after. What is the reason for playing Lingard & Pereira? In my opinion Martial has the ability to play as a CF that can drop deep and do the role of a CAM. He covers two positions the way Firmino covers CAM, CF & has the ability to bring others in to play better than any CAM at the club.
It's time we start playing a proper goalscorer on the right forward position with a left foot ( Greenwood or Haaland). Use Rashford as our right footed CF playing off the left. Use martial as a False 9/or a deep lying forward who opens space for other forwards around him. Martial can also compete against Rashford for the left striker position.
The other thing is, people will talk alot about martial's work rate & will usually highlight the fact that he doesn't make runs in to the box as a sign of him being lazy.
The truth is - to get him to work harder you have to make him drop deeper and deeper in to midfield.
You see it with Martial, he drops so deep to get the ball to hist feet and to bring others in to play with a great first touch ultimately in CAM positions before he attempts to make a run in to the box after. What is the reason for playing Lingard & Pereira? In my opinion Martial has the ability to play as a CF that can drop deep and do the role of a CAM. He covers two positions the way Firmino covers CAM, CF & has the ability to bring others in to play better than any CAM at the club.
It's time we start playing a proper goalscorer on the right forward position with a left foot ( Greenwood or Haaland). Use Rashford as our right footed CF playing off the left. Use martial as a False 9/or a deep lying forward who opens space for other forwards around him. Martial can also compete against Rashford for the left striker position.
Exactly, its time we get players like Greenwood playing on the right as forwards because even though many people may not see it, getting players like Rashford, Greenwood or potentially a left footed Haaland playing as a wider placed left centralised striker scoring off martial is a very good tactic because Martial is not a striker but a deep lying forward or a False 9 who brings others in to play regularly.
On one side you have Rashford trying to take shots from distance & on the other side you have James whipping crosses in 24/7. It's better Rashford & Greenwood together in partnership in a very wide strikers partnership that can drift wide on the counter with Martial playing deepest in between them making the passes for them to score.
I don’t know, the people who can’t see he had a good game today and the things he brought to the team are the ones making fools of themselves.
I mean the man was dropping in past Fred and McT to take the ball off our defenders. This really says it all in terms of today’s creation from the team. Generally he was the only one that seemed to be able to start moves.
He had a beautiful little turn around the corner in to the path of Lingard and that wasn’t the only time he did something like that. There were so many nearly moments where the person he went to link with just miss timed a run. Thinking of the one where he turns two defenders and Rashford is standing still so he passes it to him and heads towards space to receive the ball but for some reason Rashford has now made a run away from where the threat was and the ball ends up in no mans land.
Then numerous moments in the game where he made the ball stick to him when no one else seemed to be able to do that. Even better was his pressing and organising of others around him making sure they were doing their job. One incident he is blocking the passing lane and see’s Lingard isn’t doing his job and he is directing him to pull his finger out.
I just find it ridiculous when people spout he doesn’t work. You guys clearly aren’t watching close enough or your only criteria for doing work is running around like a crazy person.
Poor game by him.
He doesnt create, doesnt score and doesnt run much.
What is he good at?
What is he good at?
He's the most skilled player we've got outside of Pogba, his ball control is outstanding and he's a composed finisher. It is possible to know that and think he's a superb talent, whilst at the same time feeling that his work ethic is lacking. It's not character assassination to point out that he works a lot less than the other 3 in that front 4.
The one time I remember him pressing the ball today he forced Pickford into a messy pass. All that pressing isn't just bravado, it actually has an impact, especially if it's done in tandem.
The one time I remember him pressing the ball today he forced Pickford into a messy pass. All that pressing isn't just bravado, it actually has an impact, especially if it's done in tandem.
I don't see him as a long term option for us. Right now we've not got many options but I see Mason outing him very soon and if we get Haaland he could too.
Greenwood has more first team goals this season than Martial. Let that sink in.
Greenwood has more first team goals this season than Martial. Let that sink in.
Creativity is a two way street.
It's true that we lack top notch passing in the final third. But not every team in the league has a Kevin De Bruyne on their books. Most professional footballers can spot an easy pass if it's there.
Watching today's game, I didn't see Martial make any of his markers' lives difficult or his teammates' lives easy. I guess that goes for Rashford, James and Lingard too - albeit to a lesser extent.
The only near post run I saw today was by Rashford. It was easily cut out, but a decent forward line should be doing that a dozen times per match or more.
For a CF who has little pressing responsibility, runs across his defender should be Martial's bread and butter.
United played 30 crosses today. They weren't all of a high quality, but the least you expect is to make the defenders get a sweat on. Keane and Mina were barely troubled by Martial.
It's true that we lack top notch passing in the final third. But not every team in the league has a Kevin De Bruyne on their books. Most professional footballers can spot an easy pass if it's there.
Watching today's game, I didn't see Martial make any of his markers' lives difficult or his teammates' lives easy. I guess that goes for Rashford, James and Lingard too - albeit to a lesser extent.
The only near post run I saw today was by Rashford. It was easily cut out, but a decent forward line should be doing that a dozen times per match or more.
For a CF who has little pressing responsibility, runs across his defender should be Martial's bread and butter.
United played 30 crosses today. They weren't all of a high quality, but the least you expect is to make the defenders get a sweat on. Keane and Mina were barely troubled by Martial.
Agree with regards to Martial’s apparent lack of interest to get on the end of crosses. He just doesn’t do enough for me, but this is his first year as our starting striker. Ole should make him work on those situations.
Nothing reallly. He had a promising first season where he did look like he could become a Thierry Henry type player. Not to mention that first goal vs Liverpool made him an instant fan favorite.
He simply didnt pan out, Greenwood is now comfortably better and the writing is on the wall for Martial, especially considering we are looking to buy a striker too, probably Halland. If not Halland then someone else.
Its time to sell Martial. Didn't pan out, there just isnt much to his game.
Also I would say that an argument can be made that he regressed as a player since his first season.
Felt he held it up well today. Some difficult balls into him and he still maintained possession. Wasn't really able to fashion any decent chances for him or get him 1 v 1 against any of their defenders.
He is a good midtable striker, but not a top striker. All the other big teams in the league got better central strikers than us even Arsenal who are poor (maybe should not count them as a big team.
Lukaku would offer us more in 70% of the games too.
Today he had a mixed game. Poor service and poor movement together. Some good moves once he got the ball, but he didn't get involved enough near the box.
Lukaku would offer us more in 70% of the games too.
Today he had a mixed game. Poor service and poor movement together. Some good moves once he got the ball, but he didn't get involved enough near the box.
No one looks particularly good against these teams that defend so heavily. We just can't break them down as we don't have the creativity in midfield. I think it's unfair to blame Martial for it, and it's no surprise why he looks so much better playing against better teams who attack us and don't just shut us out. He's not a player for probing, but more of a "put him through and he will score" type of player. His passing is underrated and his technical ability is one of the best at the club.
In my opinion he is our most lethal striker in a one on one situation, but he is by no means a hard worker. It's a downside to his game but one that will not matter when he plays for a team that dominates and doesn't struggle to break down a 5 man defence every week. I do think we need something different for the moment though - that I definitely agree with.
In my opinion he is our most lethal striker in a one on one situation, but he is by no means a hard worker. It's a downside to his game but one that will not matter when he plays for a team that dominates and doesn't struggle to break down a 5 man defence every week. I do think we need something different for the moment though - that I definitely agree with.
He did well holding the ball, that’s all.
Imagine being Martial. You come to the club as a potential striker and scores against Liverpool on your debut. You're the only promising young attacking player they have so you get care free love and a song to go with it. Then a young local striker emerges and you get pushed out wide to accommodate him. You then get a new manager who takes away your number completely and have you prove yourself worthy as a wide midfielder fighting for a spot against the only promising young attacking player in the squad. After struggling with the trust of the manager, injuries and lack of playing time a new manager comes in, gives you the number 9 and sell off all his competition. 4 months in and a new local young attacking talent comes through, proving himself to be absolute born to play the position you want to claim. Then you have Keane himself visiting trying to intimidate you for no apparent reason, before you sit yourself in the car to have a relaxing drive home and you hear rumour talks of Haaland junior to United on the radio.
It's all connected and it's never looking too good for Martial
Might explain his mug.
Even when we aren't performing like a top club some players do still get the top club treatment, and credit to our academy for most of it. He needs to just get on with it and get in form then he'll bang them in 10 games in a row.
It's all connected and it's never looking too good for Martial
Might explain his mug.Even when we aren't performing like a top club some players do still get the top club treatment, and credit to our academy for most of it. He needs to just get on with it and get in form then he'll bang them in 10 games in a row.
Is this true? If true then it’s pretty damning.
Even if some of those things are true - he can't complain too much about the amount of leverage he s been given over the years. If this was Chelski (maybe not today s Chelski tho) or City he would have been on the bench most of his time or sold. I think Tony can be a joy to watch but sometimes you can't help but feel like you re reminded of Nani in his final years here where it feels like he just either ridiculously unlucky or he doesn't force luck to work with him.Imagine being Martial. You come to the club as a potential striker and scores against Liverpool on your debut. You're the only promising young attacking player they have so you get care free love and a song to go with it. Then a young local striker emerges and you get pushed out wide to accommodate him. You then get a new manager who takes away your number completely and have you prove yourself worthy as a wide midfielder fighting for a spot against the only promising young attacking player in the squad. After struggling with the trust of the manager, injuries and lack of playing time a new manager comes in, gives you the number 9 and sell off all his competition. 4 months in and a new local young attacking talent comes through, proving himself to be absolute born to play the position you want to claim. Then you have Keane himself visiting trying to intimidate you for no apparent reason, before you sit yourself in the car to have a relaxing drive home and you hear rumour talks of Haaland junior to United on the radio.
It's all connected and it's never looking too good for Martial
Even when we aren't performing like a top club some players do still get the top club treatment, and credit to our academy for most of it. He needs to just get on with it and get in form then he'll bang them in 10 games in a row.
I don't think he should complain, and the fans have been very patient but I absolutely think he have something to complain about those two seasons under Mourinho set him back. I think he would have been a much better player by now if those two years weren't so long or if he had just been trusted with game time. We can't please every player but I do think we have to learn from things like this and put more care into giving young players game time and the feeling of trust instead of pressure. I feel like Mourinho only cared about the next game, and their inexperience tactically was only seen as a risk. It is the exact opposite route we're taking currently with Greenwood where we make sure he gets lots of minutes while being careful to not put too much pressure on him match to match. Rashford and Martial were both told you either do as I say or you don't play and both were being played too wide for two years while practising defensive runs in that position. Wasteful. At least with Greenwood playing wide now, he does so to get more room offensively to let the ball land on his good foot, not to hug the touchline with his back towards the goal or even as an auxiliary RB.
Martial is still young too. If you consider his talent, I do think he is worth waiting for and in worst case scenario he'd be a magnificent back up, or we'd get a huge transfer fee if he doesn't like that. Best case scenario is he finds consistency in form and position, and he could be world class for us in a couple of years. It is worth the wait in any case.
I've always been a fan of Martial and he is for me the United player I look forward to watching most alongwith Pogba. And while I do think that our front line deserved a more creative midfield/fullbacks than we have, and Mourinho managed him poorly, at the same time he does at some point have to raise his game. Unlike others I dont think he's a fraud. He's clearly a very good footballer. But a 15% improvement in his intensity and toughness will turn him into a force to be reckoned with. And he needs to make that step himself. For example I don't believe James is nearly as good a footballer as Martial is and the latter would be the more important part of my team despite the cafs love in for James. But it's undeniable that Martial needs to add to his game some (even 10-20%) of James dogged intensity.Imagine being Martial. You come to the club as a potential striker and scores against Liverpool on your debut. You're the only promising young attacking player they have so you get care free love and a song to go with it. Then a young local striker emerges and you get pushed out wide to accommodate him. You then get a new manager who takes away your number completely and have you prove yourself worthy as a wide midfielder fighting for a spot against the only promising young attacking player in the squad. After struggling with the trust of the manager, injuries and lack of playing time a new manager comes in, gives you the number 9 and sell off all his competition. 4 months in and a new local young attacking talent comes through, proving himself to be absolute born to play the position you want to claim. Then you have Keane himself visiting trying to intimidate you for no apparent reason, before you sit yourself in the car to have a relaxing drive home and you hear rumour talks of Haaland junior to United on the radio.
It's all connected and it's never looking too good for Martial
Even when we aren't performing like a top club some players do still get the top club treatment, and credit to our academy for most of it. He needs to just get on with it and get in form then he'll bang them in 10 games in a row.
Some players can run non stop for 90 mins or more. Some can play in bursts. Martial is the latter type I feel. Sometimes our midfield would demoralise anyone.
I feel that we don't practice those runs into the box. These things must be practiced. Players need to talk a lot during practice for what kind of signal for the near post or far post or pull back.
Martial is too good a player to be thrown out.
I feel that we don't practice those runs into the box. These things must be practiced. Players need to talk a lot during practice for what kind of signal for the near post or far post or pull back.
Martial is too good a player to be thrown out.
I think the criticism is very harsh, he wasn't poor at all. His hold up play, link up play was good. Obviously he is CF and will be judged on goals, so that's a fair criticism but his overall game was good.
Agree. However I'm not as exited about him as I used to be. Doesn't dribble that much anymore. He also needs to do more to establish partnerships, and the same goes for Rashford. James and Martial has a bit of an understanding it seems but we need our team to have more of those relations all over the pitch. Martial is a smart player but it can be hard to read his runs at times and he struggle to read others too, although not as much as Rashford. If they work on that, then he can do without the intensity of James. I actually think he runs more without the ball these days, he just looks faded and uninterested sometimes which just makes it annoying when things aren't working for him.
That's the thing for me, he really shouldn't be.
Then what is he? He shouldn't be a LW, RW and now not even CF.
His lack of urgency when we're having to come from behind in games is shocking.
So this week the caf are switching to shitting on him...
He's always been a left attacker for me, one who shouldn't be burdened by defensive duties. His hold up play and linking as a CF is rather good I'd say tbh but I feel like his instincts are predatory enough to be successful in the long run for a position like that
Obviously not everyone is shitting on him..
IIRC @JPRouve said he was always CF and only played as LW once he joined ManUtd.
I've seen him play anywhere on the front line before he came to United. He never struck me as a natural long term 9 (and I don't mean the old fashioned ones). The frustrating with him, whether it's real or not, seems to be a lack of spark in his play.
He shouldn't be a Utd player
Ok.
Seems to me that he’s one of those that if he was somewhere else, you might want to get him to see if he can step it up for a bigger club. As things stand I can see him going somewhere else and doing a bit of a Depay. Looking pretty decent but didn’t cut it here (although he has done more than Depay).
He almost exclusively played as a striker/second striker, there is maybe a handful of games where he played on either wings but it was as an inside forward very close to the striker. It's worth remembering that on the left Monaco would generally not use wingers because Kurzawa was pretty much playing that role but even then Carrasco was the favored option.
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Pfffff! He desperately needs more competition. His movement, positioning, workrate and hunger leaves a lot to be desired.
Should be good with Haaland then
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