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2020-21 Performances


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spiriticon

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At 25 years old you are no longer looking at potential, and you are much nearer the finished article. As he slowly ages, he is not going to get better like Zlatan because he has a severe mental block and has zero awareness of the tactical side of the game as a striker.

Like David de Gea, he is talented but just simply refusing to improve on the weaker aspects of his game despite many many years of chances. I think he's still got 2 or 3 decent seasons left in him (and they won't even be that brilliant, 15-20 goal seasons maybe if the stars and heavens align fully) and then he'll fall off a cliff edge completely. Done with top-level football by 30 years old I think.

It's a gamble to rely on him, and a fine line to judge when to sell him at the best time.
 

AgentSmith

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Laziness and moodiness is not an attribute and one I wouldn’t associate with Martial. His face might look it though.

I agree with you on the rest and I also believe another striker plays better than him right now. I.e. Danny Ings.

But I feel what we are going through with Martial is a mental block. I could be wrong but abit like Mourinho football after a while it becomes mentally draining.
Of course they're attributes of Martial on the pitch. One of the main jobs a striker has to contribute to the team is runs and Martial is as static as they come. There's no other explanation for this lack of movement than laziness or moodiness given how different Cavani looks when he's on the pitch.

Ole shouted at him last night 'Some movement Antho, move! Start moving!' midway through the game and it produced no noticeable reaction.

Even if we run with your hypothetical scenario that the football has become so relentlessly negative under Ole that Martial has grown disillusioned and, therefore, unable to contribute more than 4 goals how is that the sign of a player who's capable of winning the league given we've scored 53 in total?

He's tied with McTominay (7) for goals in all competitions. How has McTominay overcome this mental block from CDM?
 

Mainoldo

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Of course they're attributes of Martial on the pitch. One of the main jobs a striker has to contribute to the team is runs and Martial is as static as they come. There's no other explanation for this lack of movement than laziness or moodiness given how different Cavani looks when he's on the pitch.

Ole shouted at him last night 'Some movement Antho, move! Start moving!' midway through the game and it produced no noticeable reaction.

Even if we run with your hypothetical scenario that the football has become so relentlessly negative under Ole that Martial has grown disillusioned and, therefore, unable to contribute more than 4 goals how is that the sign of a player who's capable of winning the league given we've scored 53 in total?

He's tied with McTominay (7) for goals in all competitions. How has McTominay overcome this mental block from CDM?
Im not being funny but telling a player to show movement is not a tactical instruction.. Him deciding not to do it is not laziness he’s just not listen to the manager.

Ole needs to decide what he wants to do about that. Tuchel made an in game decision and so should Ole. Maybe just drop him and put Greenwood upfront. He looked to have enough when he put Greenwood on anyway. But they really need to find out what the actual problem is. You point out Martial’s goals but

Cavani: Goals: 7

Maybe we have a formation issue?
 

AgentSmith

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Im not being funny but telling a player to show movement is not a tactical instruction.. Him deciding not to do it is not laziness he’s just not listen to the manager.

Ole needs to decide what he wants to do about that. Tuchel made an in game decision and so should Ole. Maybe just drop him and put Greenwood upfront. He looked to have enough when he put Greenwood on anyway. But they really need to find out what the actual problem is. You point out Martial’s goals but

Cavani: Goals: 7

Maybe we have a formation issue?
He's played about 800 minutes more than Cavani. It's also Cavani's first season at the club, first season in English football, he's just turned 34 years old and he hadn't played football for 6+ months at the time he joined us. And he still runs more than Martial.

Martial's attitude is the problem.
 

Mainoldo

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He's played about 800 minutes more than Cavani. It's also Cavani's first season at the club, first season in English football, he's just turned 34 years old and he hadn't played football for 6+ months at the time he joined us. And he still runs more than Martial.

Martial's attitude is the problem.
Cavani’s in game stats are pretty much the same as Martials. Telling me about bedding in period is rubbish. Bruno didn’t need it.
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
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How many chances is he going to get? Hes been dreadful the whole season, yet Ole still seems to hope the next match is when he gets going
Thing is, what even is form for him this season? Even if he scores a goal in a game and/or does reasonable well, it still goes back to being abject the following game.

Say he starts against Sociedad and scores a goal, does anyone expect he'll carry over that form vs. Chelsea?
 

BluesJr

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I used to be one of his biggest fans but I’ve now lost faith tbh. I just think he lacks hunger and desire.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Cavani’s in game stats are pretty much the same as Martials. Telling me about bedding in period is rubbish. Bruno didn’t need it.
Martial is on one goal per 300 minutes.

Cavani is on one goal per 180 minutes.

Cavani has started 12 games, and been subbed on 12 times.

Martial has started 23 games and has been subbed on 8 times.

So there is a bit of a difference. Also, even if you want to dismiss a bedding in period (and to take to this league like Bruno is hardly the rule in that regard) the fact that he hadn't kicked a ball since the start of March is not nothing.
 
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Thing is, what even is form for him this season? Even if he scores a goal in a game and/or does reasonable well, it still goes back to being abject the following game.

Say he starts against Sociedad and scores a goal, does anyone expect he'll carry over that form vs. Chelsea?
if it wasn’t for Cavani being in and out of fitness, and his suspension, he would have even less games.

I think we have more than enough evidence now that he can’t be our no 9. He should be back up to Rashford on the left, and play up top of Cavani/ new forward is unavailable.

either he’s backup or he should be sold this summer. It’s not that I dislike him, but perhaps best for everyone it he has a bee start, and we might be able to get a reasonable fee for him.
 

Sea-Cow

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Wonder if Moyes wants him at west ham?

Wonder if our feeder club inter want him to join them?

2 options right there. Just anywhere but at United.
Surely they would take him at Inter Milan? Would he be an upgrade on Alexis Sanchez?
 

Sea-Cow

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Either him or the manager needs to go.

1 will leave and be successful.
Hmmmm I am honestly curious as to which one you think will be successful. I think the answer to your riddle has to be Martial. And I could see him finding a team that suits him, where they handle him in the ways that he is looking for, and that he finds his form. Maybe the French league? Of course he would have to accept about 1/4th of his current wages, so why on earth would he do that? As long as United keeps handing out contracts he might as well stay here and get rich, football be damned.
 

Mainoldo

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Hmmmm I am honestly curious as to which one you think will be successful. I think the answer to your riddle has to be Martial. And I could see him finding a team that suits him, where they handle him in the ways that he is looking for, and that he finds his form. Maybe the French league? Of course he would have to accept about 1/4th of his current wages, so why on earth would he do that? As long as United keeps handing out contracts he might as well stay here and get rich, football be damned.
He could play in Spain easily and be successful Italy too. One of the Milan clubs but like you said the wages would be off putting.
 

Foxbatt

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I think he always had the talent and ability. We saw that last season.
There is certainly something wrong. We can't blame Ole unlike Jose because he has given him chance after chance. If he is not scoring goals then at least he should contribute to the team effort. Get running to try to get on the e.nd of a pass. Don't jog. Sprint.
He could be having personal problems like Lingard. Maybe it's best to move on. I am sure he will be moved on if he doesn't improve.
 

r3idy

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Im not being funny but telling a player to show movement is not a tactical instruction.. Him deciding not to do it is not laziness he’s just not listen to the manager.

Ole needs to decide what he wants to do about that. Tuchel made an in game decision and so should Ole. Maybe just drop him and put Greenwood upfront. He looked to have enough when he put Greenwood on anyway. But they really need to find out what the actual problem is. You point out Martial’s goals but

Cavani: Goals: 7

Maybe we have a formation issue?
Said something similar to my son last night, albeit I do not think it's a formation issue i.e. Ole's fault. Casual observation is that Rashford and Martial were playing much closer together at the back end of last season with more one touch football on the edge of the box. When we did decide to go with a wider forward line, there was a lot of interchange between the front three as Rashford, Martial and Greenwood switched wings and who would occupy the number nine role.

Last night there was a few examples of Rashford standing as a traditional LW / Left Forward, Martial had drifted into the space that Rashford could run into then you had Shaw no less than five yards away from Rashford. So Martial straight away should be going towards the 18 yard box and taking a defender with him.

Ole needs to start mixing that forward line up or drop Martial. As a number nine, he is offering little to us at the moment. Ole is bang right to expect and demand more as should his team mates. I don't like to see players just hung out to dry and there is an argument for getting footballers to play themselves INTO form but it goes both ways, If the manager is supporting him and giving him game time, then the least he can do is put a shift in and do what the manager asks. If the formation does not work then it's on the manager.

I guess what is more disappointing, is that when he get's hooked, he doesn't even look arsed, it's almost inevitable that he will get hooked. If he had put a shift in, had a few decisions go against him and missed a few sitters but is still getting into the spaces then fair play, go kick a bottle, be pissed off. At the moment he has no reason to be annoyed when he see's his number go up.
 

Sea-Cow

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He could play in Spain easily and be successful Italy too. One of the Milan clubs but like you said the wages would be off putting.
Haha it'd be cruel to send him to Milan just so he can be benched by Zlatan again.

And to the other part of your riddle -- I am 1,000% certain that the manager will not go on to great things with a different club once we finally make the decision to get rid, so I think this can play a part in the Martial that we saw yesterday. It looks like he doesn't know how to play as a lead-the-line striker, and that he doesn't know what is expected of him when we are trying to work the ball around on the left. So, why aren't the coaches working on this? I have no way of knowing what is worked on at the training ground, and what he is asked to do, its possible he is performing his role perfectly, but then you would again have to question the manager.

Of course blaming the manager doesn't explain the drop-off in touch and effort, which are mostly personal issues.

Whatever the culprit I think we can say that he is lucky that there aren't fans in the stadium as I think there would be some audible sighs and exasperation with him constantly losing 1 on 1 battles with defenders. Or even worse, the cheers from the crowd when he is sub'd off. But who wouldn't have cheered wildly when Mason was sub'd on yesterday?
 

He'sRaldo

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It's not rocket science why he's struggling.

He's not sure where his next chance will come from, and that's affecting his confidence.
 

Threesus

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It's not rocket science why he's struggling.

He's not sure where his next chance will come from, and that's affecting his confidence.
The excuses are getting ridiculous. Ole has backed this guy to the maximum and he is stinking up the place.
And why does he have so many stans across social media? You would think he is prime Henry by the way people rave about him.
Looking at his career, last season looks like a false dawn.
The guy has 4 league goals in 25 matches this season. We are not winning nothing with our No 9 like this. The things he was relatively good at, like dribbling, composure has fallen off a cliff.
And we are paying him 250 grand a week. That’s more than Harry Kane. Isn’t it reasonable to expect output at least close to what Kane is producing? Ole has many faults , but Martial being shit is not one of them.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Not sure what’s changed but he feels as much at odds with how the team plays as VDB this season. Those two could probably produce some decent combination football with Pogba etc but that’s not how the team plays. He can definitely try much harder though
 

mav_9me

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It's not rocket science why he's struggling.

He's not sure where his next chance will come from, and that's affecting his confidence.
Why is he not moving? No runs offensively (long term problem) no defensive work rate (also a long term problem)

If your confidence is down, agreed that touch and technique can break down.

But the least you could do is put in effort to overcome that. Otherwise why should he get any game time?
 

Teja

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Im not being funny but telling a player to show movement is not a tactical instruction.. Him deciding not to do it is not laziness he’s just not listen to the manager.

Ole needs to decide what he wants to do about that. Tuchel made an in game decision and so should Ole. Maybe just drop him and put Greenwood upfront. He looked to have enough when he put Greenwood on anyway. But they really need to find out what the actual problem is. You point out Martial’s goals but

Cavani: Goals: 7

Maybe we have a formation issue?
Come on mate, you really think they don't work on specific movement instructions for Strikers during training? School level coaches talk about opposite movements, what situations to make forward runs etc etc. and regardless of how shit you think Ole is, I am pretty sure he's not bad to the extent that he doesn't coach Martial on when to run, when to drop / go wide etc.

The formation on paper means nothing at all, you have to be more specific than that.
 

Mainoldo

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Come on mate, you really think they don't work on specific movement instructions for Strikers during training? School level coaches talk about opposite movements, what situations to make forward runs etc etc. and regardless of how shit you think Ole is, I am pretty sure he's not bad to the extent that he doesn't coach Martial on when to run, when to drop / go wide etc.

The formation on paper means nothing at all, you have to be more specific than that.
No I don’t. The coaching is crap! Especially after watching City the game before and Chelsea and Southampton before that.

I don’t know what teams you played for. But my school team had zero coaching on where I should be moving upfront. We also went 3 years unbeaten. So it’s not like it was important.
 

Raven

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I really hope he can rediscover his form because it's painful to watch right now. I'm not sure he'll ever get back his form now though, which is a shame because he's an absolute joy to watch when he's at his best. Needs to be dropped completely and told that he's only getting back in once he shows more. Hopefully this will take the pressure off and reduce the abuse he's been receiving and allow him work hard on finding his form. If it doesn't work out, then we'll have to look at selling him, although that may not be possible till 2022.
 

BenitoSTARR

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What happened to his pace? When he signed him he was fast. He’s only 25 yet he plays like he’s 35, the man barely moves.
He’s bulked up for sure. He’s still quick but in central areas against packed defences it’s hard to show off your pace. Close control is more important
 

Ali Dia

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Like De Gea - talented, but with absolutely no fight in him.

Hopefully Ole gets rid in the summer. Just stinking up the place.
shaw with his initial fitness issues, Zaha, martial, Pogba, Lukaku, Miki, Morgan S, depay, Sanchez, di Maria, DDG... it looks like we were actively scouting players without taking their mentality into consideration at all.
 
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croadyman

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Things COULD have been different for him this season if he hadn't got wound up by Lamela so easily against Spurs
 

Handsome Devil

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Unless I'm mistaken, I haven't seen any statements from the player himself about his current poor form. Usually the agent puts out a bulletin to the effect of "I know I can do better but I'm working to get through this and I'm confident I can" sort of guff which the tabloids lap up.
He seems a very private sort of person and I'm not sure if this is a good thing (dignity) or a bad thing (disinterest.)
 

lsd

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Im hoping Ole has now reached the point with Martial where he was with Lingard and it is all over bar the shouting for him.

I remember Ole yelling at Jesse he would take hkm off for not following instructions before doing so and we saw very little of him after that.

It seemed significant he did that to Martial on Sunday before finally replacing him with Greenwood to play through the middle.
 

largelyworried

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I often find with players out of form that there's a point where my anger flips to sympathy, and that's where I am with Marital. He's so out of form that this isn't a question of talent or application. Its clear his confidence is totally shot.

I noticed vs Newcastle that as the game went on he started pulling further and further to the outside left position. I don't think it was about finding space, I think he was just trying to get back into his comfort zone. Being the lone striker puts a hell of a lot of pressure on you to make things work, you're under the microscope a lot of the time. The focus of all the creative players is on making chances for you, and the centre backs and deep midfielders are always gunning for you too. It looked like Martial just didn't want the pressure of being in that position and was creeping back to the outside left where he only had to focus on beating the left back. Trouble is, that wasn't his job, so the system didn't really work.

The big question for Ole is how to handle it - players don't get their confidence back by sitting on the bench. We're between transfer windows so we can't replace him, we need Martial playing well to get us over the line this season. And with the cup competitions reaching the business end, its not like we can give him minutes in lesser priority games. Very tricky situation.
 

romufc

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It's not rocket science why he's struggling.

He's not sure where his next chance will come from, and that's affecting his confidence.
His next chance? It would help if he could hold the ball up when its passed to him.

It would help if everytime someone passes to him he doesnt try turn and dribble 5 players.

It would help if he made runs into the box when the ball goes out wide.

We are the top scorers in the league and you are making excuses like where the next chance will come from? what bullshit excuse is that?
 

76side

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Awful luxury player who never gets involved and goes missing on the pitch. Total waste of a shirt and when he plays we have 10 men. Get shut ASAP.
 

Isotope

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I think he always had the talent and ability. We saw that last season.
There is certainly something wrong. We can't blame Ole unlike Jose because he has given him chance after chance. If he is not scoring goals then at least he should contribute to the team effort. Get running to try to get on the e.nd of a pass. Don't jog. Sprint.
He could be having personal problems like Lingard. Maybe it's best to move on. I am sure he will be moved on if he doesn't improve.
Having personal issue, out of form, or confidence shot shouldn't prevent him to work harder.

And Cavani worked his ass off every time he's on the field. So using only goals when comparing Martial and Cavani is just silly.
 
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Lewnited

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I just don't understand what happened to this guy, I'm not one for making sweeping judgements on the character of someone I don't know... but I can only conclude that he hasn't put the work in to become the player he should have turned in to. At 19 he was one of the best talents I had seen in football; composed finisher, nigh impossible to disposses, and had some of the quickest feet in the league.

Yet looking at him now, he seems to have regressed in quite literally every department. Even last year he looked a very good player, but not one with the brilliant ability he showed at 19... I really thought he was going tobkick on this yewr but here we are.