[Stacks]

For me, there have been two players here that have displayed a bad attitude. Only two (plus maybe Pogba), the rest struggle because they're just shite. So for all the talk of selling players with bad attitude, the only two players that I feel have a bad attitude will still be here next season: Rashford and Martial. Let that sink in. Nothing is changing because somebody at the club seemingly has a hard on for these two feckers.

Just them? I'd throw in, Shaw, McTominay, Greenwood

 

[Reapersoul20]

He will stay I reckon. Nobody will pay an acceptable fee for him with his wages. We'd have to give him away for free. May as well keep him as an option.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Something still makes me think he’s going to tear it up and I know it’s a fool’s hope. Honestly the natural talent and expectations we had versus where he is now is sickening.

He has similar issues that Pogba had. Talent isn't his biggest flaw as he's shown at times he's got it.

It's heart, desire and determination. If he had all those qualities too he'd be worth £150m but sadly he doesn't have any of them.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He has similar issues that Pogba had. Talent isn't his biggest flaw as he's shown at times he's got it.

It's heart, desire and determination. If he had all those qualities too he'd be worth £150m but sadly he doesn't have any of them.

I think part of the issue is we’ve been so desperate to see proper pressing we’ve almost settled as a fan base on the characteristics we want and, conversely, those we don’t. Many of Martial’s strengths aren’t mental, he’s physically superb in short bursts when he’s fit and technically strong but he’s never going to be a player who chases down and harries defenders regularly or covers huge amounts of ground. I don’t think it’s because he doesn’t have heart though, he’s just not that type of player and also doesn’t have the frame.

If ETH can get us progressing the ball through the midfield and actually getting overlaps out wide i.e. not just playing direct counter attack, I think he’ll be a very useful player if ETH can get his head right. Too many ‘ifs’ I guess which confirms my original though that I’m a fool for hoping he’ll come good.

 

[arthurka]

What the feck is wrong with this club

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

Something still makes me think he’s going to tear it up and I know it’s a fool’s hope. Honestly the natural talent and expectations we had versus where he is now is sickening.

Even if 10H will magically turn him into Prime Tony, He's still an injury prone player. We can't rely on him for a full season with a 38yo CR7.

 

[redshaw]

Perhaps he needs someone like Ten Hag to spark him into life. I feel a lot of players need that guidance. The top managers like Pep Klopp, Conte and Fergie have this in abundance.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

What the feck is wrong with this club

We have the Glazers and they left Woodward in charge for too long.

 

[Escobar]

Another one that we struggle to move on. Most likely, he will still be here next season

 

[roonster09]

This was expected, we don't have attackers, we can't offload Martial easily because of his wage and last 2 seasons. In Ducker article he mentioned club will try to sell him and reuse the money to sign other attacker.

Hopefully he will regain his form, 2019-20 Martial would be awesome in ETH's system.

 

[The Siege]

He's one of those players we'll have to move on over a free transfer.

Even if someone were willing to pay a transfer fee for him, his wages are tens of millions more than what a club would like to pay him over a 4-5 year contract period. Might as well see if he's useful to the squad when we're not blessed with attacking depth, but I have little hope from him.

 

[Red Company]

I think ETH is a good test for a player like Martial. What I mean is that there’s never been a question about lack of skill but only that of discipline & effort with Martial. And I think there’s no better disciplinarian than managers like ETH. If Martial can wake up from his snooze fest, once again it’ll be like a new signing with an abundance of hidden talent that we’ve been waiting to see for years and only been gifted glimpses so far.

Apart from Martials own faults, the club is also at fault for hiring managers who were not good coaches. And ironically the last (borderline) decent coach we had was LVG and he was the one who initially let Martial stake a claim in the starting 11. From all the past managers, he atleast coached Martial into playing to a certain set of instructions and then letting his skills do the talking. I expect ETH to do the same.

I also believe players like Martial who are more skilled than players like Rashford have a higher ceiling under ETH if they can learn how to play systematic and organized football that ETH will introduce. Many a times, Martial would not even receive sufficient service from which he could create efforts and this will likely be a diminishing issue once the team improves at playing under ETH’s style. But players like Rashford will have to grow their skillset to survive at United and atleast get the basics right. Useless long shots and losing possession will not be tolerated under ETH. He will have to completely change the way he plays football.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

If you can't be that fit you inherit bad gene, or simply a lazy ass.

You know Mourinho had an Instagram dad post with picture of Kane also in his underwear watching golf. Even Spurs fans got all with the fat banter just fine. Go on Reddit or a Spurs forum and try to argue with them about photography.

Your expert evaluation doesn't change the point that during the restart period, many players were unfit and played at lower intensity which happened to be Martial most productive period.

He is very slim with a 6 pack and muscular definition.

I literally looked at the photo, I have no need to listen to spurs fans when I have seen it with my eyes.

 

[Abraxas]

I think ETH is a good test for a player like Martial. What I mean is that there’s never been a question about lack of skill but only that of discipline & effort with Martial. And I think there’s no better disciplinarian than managers like ETH. If Martial can wake up from his snooze fest, once again it’ll be like a new signing with an abundance of hidden talent that we’ve been waiting to see for years and only been gifted glimpses so far.

Apart from Martials own faults, the club is also at fault for hiring managers who were not good coaches. And ironically the last (borderline) decent coach we had was LVG and he was the one who initially let Martial stake a claim in the starting 11. From all the past managers, he atleast coached Martial into playing to a certain set of instructions and then letting his skills do the talking. I expect ETH to do the same.

I also believe players like Martial who are more skilled than players like Rashford have a higher ceiling under ETH if they can learn how to play systematic and organized football that ETH will introduce. Many a times, Martial would not even receive sufficient service from which he could create efforts and this will likely be a diminishing issue once the team improves at playing under ETH’s style. But players like Rashford will have to grow their skillset to survive at United and atleast get the basics right. Useless long shots and losing possession will not be tolerated under ETH. He will have to completely change the way he plays football.

I'm not sure, I'd say his "skill" has been diminishing not just his mentality. Quite simply, is he a better footballer now then when he broke onto the scene? The fact that's a tricky question to answer says a lot. I would rather have the young version. Worse with back to goal but good at dribbling and cutting in.

He looks out of shape as well as motivation, and when that happens you lose sharpness and eventually useful ability on the ball. For my money he has been clumsy and useless on the ball in addition to everything else. Mainly just passing it sideways. Maybe some of the technique and ability would reshow itself if he got into proper shape and match fitness, but that relies on a lot of other stuff.

 

[Hawks2008]

"Like a new signing"

The fact we can't get rid of dead weight like him makes me despair. He's not the only one though.

 

[pocco]

Just them? I'd throw in, Shaw, McTominay, Greenwood

I don't think they have a bad attitude on the pitch.

Greenwood was flying, but the less said about him. The other two are just limited and I think Shaw has a fragile mentality where he can go from playing great to really poor and lacking confidence.

 

[crossy1686]

Can see him fully downing tools and going full sulk by January. We’ll be in shitty form, people will be questioning Ten Hag and he’ll just sit and hope for a new manager that he can hide behind again.

 

[UncleBob]

I don't think they have a bad attitude on the pitch.

Greenwood was flying, but the less said about him. The other two are just limited and I think Shaw has a fragile mentality where he can go from playing great to really poor and lacking confidence.

He wasn't. Pretty much shit up until the point where he got permanently sidelined

 

[pcaming]

"Like a new signing"

The fact we can't get rid of dead weight like him makes me despair. He's not the only one though.

We can't because the genius of WW, gave everyone huge contracts at the first glimpse of a performance. Too many of our players are vastly overpaid.

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

Perhaps he needs someone like Ten Hag to spark him into life. I feel a lot of players need that guidance. The top managers like Pep Klopp, Conte and Fergie have this in abundance.

No, we even tried changing his girlfriend and nothing.

 

[El Jefe]

The man can barely play football anymore. Ten Hag is not a magician. Martial has reached a liw that I don't think he can recover from at this club. Martial is an unreliable player and there's nothing that can be done to change that.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Guy clearly wants out of England. He could have played under Rangnick but decided to go to Spain instead. I wonder If he fell out with another player? Either way think it would be a bad idea to keep him around at this stage.

 

[pocco]

He wasn't. Pretty much shit up until the point where he got permanently sidelined

I disagree, I thought he was shaping up to be one of our better players and was starting to find some form again after a quiet start. His all round play had been good enough, especially compared to others, but he was frustrating with his insistence on shooting every time instead of bringing teammates into play.

Regardless, I don't think he had a bad attitude and was clearly trying, perhaps just too hard.

 

[UncleBob]

I disagree, I thought he was shaping up to be one of our better players and was starting to find some form again after a quiet start. His all round play had been good enough, especially compared to others, but he was frustrating with his insistence on shooting every time instead of bringing teammates into play.

Regardless, I don't think he had a bad attitude and was clearly trying, perhaps just too hard.

Quiet start? the only thing positive about his season was the start. He more or less looked absolutely miserable since being moved out wide, the fecker barely bothered to cross the halfway line to help our fullback.

 

[pocco]

Quiet start? the only thing positive about his season was the start. He more or less looked absolutely miserable since being moved out wide, the fecker barely bothered to cross the halfway line to help our fullback.

I personally felt like he was playing well before the stuff happened with him. But the laziness was annoying. I don't know if that was by design or not as all our attackers in general played as though they had no defensive responsibility this season under Ole. Our fullbacks also didn't get forward like previously.

 

[Orton]

Still don’t see why he can’t be useful? Rashford has been given chance after chance. We can’t lose more attackers without replacing them. If a decent offer came in then we should consider it but it’s pointless loaning him out again.

 

[Carl]

Still don’t see why he can’t be useful? Rashford has been given chance after chance. We can’t lose more attackers without replacing them. If a decent offer came in then we should consider it but it’s pointless loaning him out again.

He isn't good enough. Whats the use in keeping him? The club need to get out of the weird mentality of hanging onto players that aren't good enough, it's partly why we are where we are.

 

[Stacks]

I don't think they have a bad attitude on the pitch.

Greenwood was flying, but the less said about him. The other two are just limited and I think Shaw has a fragile mentality where he can go from playing great to really poor and lacking confidence.

greenwood lazy as hell. never presses and does not like to pass.

 

[Orton]

He isn't good enough. Whats the use in keeping him? The club need to get out of the weird mentality of hanging onto players that aren't good enough, it's partly why we are where we are.

A lot of our players aren’t good enough if we want to start competing again. We have Ronaldo and literally no other centre forward in the team, and are supposedly not prioritising signing somebody in that position. With his wages it’s going to be impossible to flog him unless we loan him again which just doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Carl]

A lot of our players aren’t good enough if we want to start competing again. We have Ronaldo and literally no other centre forward in the team, and are supposedly not prioritising signing somebody in that position. With his wages it’s going to be impossible to flog him unless we loan him again which just doesn’t make any sense.

I'd rather give the time to Elanga, Pellestri and Diallo than Martial. Not that's an ideal situation either, but its preferable.

 

[Drizzle]

Still don’t see why he can’t be useful?

Because he's been pretty useless for 2 or 3 seasons now. In fact he's only really had one very good season in his entire career with us.

Putting faith in him to be suddenly being able to lead the line and be a reliable goalscorer for us in key games when Ronaldo may be injured is desperate stuff.

We know we'd immediately sell him if anyone would take him off our hands, so that tells you all you need to know. If he stays then it's merely a product of our previous incompetence not because he's any good.

 

[JPRouve]

He isn't good enough. Whats the use in keeping him? The club need to get out of the weird mentality of hanging onto players that aren't good enough, it's partly why we are where we are.

If we are being serious, he is no worse than the likes Isco, Mariano, Asensio or Choupo Moting. I agree about the idea of moving on but it has to be done with a bit of common sense, if we have an affordable alternative and a good offer for Martial then we should sell otherwise we shouldn't.

 

[Roux]

If we are being serious, he is no worse than the likes Isco, Mariano, Asensio or Choupo Moting. I agree about the idea of moving on but it has to be done with a bit of common sense, if we have an affordable alternative and a good offer for Martial then we should sell otherwise we shouldn't.

it's not just about footballing ability though - his attitude and fragility are what lets him down. Not good enough.

 

[JPRouve]

it's not just about footballing ability though - his attitude and fragility are what lets him down. Not good enough.

What attitude and fragility? What has he done that makes him a must sell?

My issues with him are about his lack of improvement and the idea that he is what he is but I'm a bit baffled by some of the takes here.

 

[Roux]

What attitude and fragility? What has he done that makes him a must sell?

My issues with him are about his lack of improvement and the idea that he is what he is but I'm a bit baffled by some of the takes here.

Laziness, sulks, constantly injured, off field issues, struggled to get into the Sevilla team, lack of goals, hardly a threat on the wing anymore, not great at playing as a no.9 - i mean pick any one of those. All of those are valid reasons - and you're still baffled why he should be moved on?

 

[Gordon Godot]

Laziness, constantly injured, off field issues, struggled to get into the Sevilla team, lack of goals, hardly a threat on the wing anymore, not great at playing as a no.9 - i mean pick any one of those. All of those are valid reasons - and you're still baffled why he should be moved on?

Agreed, an absolute disaster of a player, should have been sold long ago. Bad attitude, hides, lazy, has had one good patch in his time here and the odd cameo.

 

[VP89]

What attitude and fragility? What has he done that makes him a must sell?

My issues with him are about his lack of improvement and the idea that he is what he is but I'm a bit baffled by some of the takes here.

His attitude is shite. The way he laboriously jogs around the pitch, rarely ever on his toes, slumps around its so obvious that hes not doing enough.

 

[JPRouve]

Laziness, constantly injured, off field issues, struggled to get into the Sevilla team, lack of goals, hardly a threat on the wing anymore - i mean pick any one of those. All of those are valid reasons - and you're still baffled why he should be moved on?

Of course there are valid reasons but you noticed that most of the ones you mentioned are football related while your first post wasn't about Football. Now if we follow your logic 80% of our team should be sold immediately but it won't happen because common sense prevails which goes back to the point I made earlier, I'm for selling but not at all cost just at a cost that benefits United.

 

[JPRouve]

His attitude is shite. The way he laboriously jogs around the pitch, rarely ever on his toes, slumps around its so obvious that hes not doing enough.

His attitude is shite or you don't like the style that he has always had?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

His attitude is shite.

Maybe it really is.

We don't actually know all that much about his attitude, though - we base almost all of our assumptions about him on how he appears on the pitch. Which is hardly a scientific measure of attitude.

We can conclude that he's been shite for months on end (including his spell in Spain) - but how much of that has to do with his basic attitude...and how much is down to other factors (a player's mentality is normally not a constant thing - it changes all the time).

This is me playing devil's advocate, to be clear - I think Martial is useless. But I would like to be proven wrong (I really would).