Ok hands up on that one I’ve remembered it different and exaggerated there.
Anthony Taylor
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Pope and Burn should have seen red.
The problem here is consistency, the same ref on VAR that brought back Casemeiro for a straight red and deliberately showed the worst part of the tackle in freeze frame and slow motion to the on field referee. He let a similar tackle where the ball wasn't even played go unpunished a day before but also decided a similarly worse tackle from Faes was only worthy of a second yellow.
Casemiro was a red all day long, it’s the lack of consistency that’s making people think it’s not.
Yeah now the dust has settled this is my view. If we didn’t see this sort of tackle routinely not given a red, I’d be far less annoyed. The league is pathetic for its inability to stay consistent with decisions.
That's the fun of being a football fan. Why do people want football to be such a clinical boring exercise.
Exactly. It’s unlucky and he gets the ball but the momentum he’s coming in with seals his fate.
The frustrating thing is other players get away with this exact tackle all season long and then it’s exacerbated by Casemiro’s red for ‘choking’ being a farce.
If Taylor gives him a Red instead of a yellow, and VAR doesn't intervene, it would still have been controversial, but more excepted, its the inconsistent VAR intervention that's caused more of a concern.
I don't buy that. Even if you take Liverpool out of those statistics (not really sure what they have to do with anything anyway), the difference in cards given for United/opposition teams is near impossible to explain.
Just for context, Man United at no point over recent years have averaged twice as many yellow cards per game than ANY other team, never mind every other team. You can check this on the premier league website. Generally you could expect United to average say 5-10% more, and that's at a big stretch as would mean the ref consistently getting games where they play the least dirty opponents.
So this leaves you with the two possible explanations a) Man United, over the course of about 8 years, have picked games where Antony Taylor is the referee to deliberately get their own players booked twice as often, or b) Antony Taylor is twice as likely to book a player if they play for Man United.
One of those explanations is completely laughable and the other forces you to consider that the referee is (in all likelihood on purpose) not refereeing games fairly. I'm not sure how you would explain that it has happened by accident over that big a sample of games. Its not 3 or 4 games it will be about 30 odd.
And that's before you look at the individual decisions outside of the yellow cards and find ones like the Middlesbrough handball, the Martial Red card, etc. which are extremely difficult to explain as genuine errors as they involve deliberate ignorqnce of video evidence. It's very hard to envisage that level of incompetence occurring as frequently as it does by accident as if so you would have seen people getting sacked by now.
I don't think this is specifically a man utd problem either. I'm betting you could find stats like these for specific refs for most teams and the genuinely crazy decisions have gone from being once a month or so to pretty much every other game. Initially using VAR as an excuse (which makes no fecking sense), but now they have noticeably become more frequent since VAR was introduced (which makes even less fecking sense), and there are also noticeable chief culprits in the likes of Mariner and Taylor. Regardless of who Taylor referees, when I see him I expect the outcome of the game to be based around or at best influenced by his officiating, because a significant amount of the time, it is, and it's not usually all that subtle either.
I'm not usually one to cry about conspiracies etc. either but the problem is over the last few years the standard of officiating in England has been as such that the "it's difficult to get everything right/genuine errors/referees are juat a bit rubbish" arguments are impossible to reasonably accept. You don't accidentally time and time again see something different to what a video replay shows you, you don't accidentally reinterpret the rules mid game and then reinterpret them back again a day later, and you don't accidentally book twice as many players for one specific team.
There is also the fact we know referees in Italy were bent, it now seems they were on the payroll of Barcelona in Spain. The PL has more money flying around than any other league and we've got one former ref openly claiming the officials are pressured into decisions around certain teams or players, another who wrote a book and did interviews where he openly boasts about officiating games to his own agenda, even taking through an example where he deliberately refused to send players off and could easily have altered the outcome of the entire league season. in that Chelsea vs Tottenham game.
At this point I think it's just plain denial to think it isn't happening as its slapping every PL fan in the face every week and you have precedent, first hand witness accounts, and statistics as direct evidence. I think people basically just don't want to believe its there. If you took some of the nonsense from this season and had it happen in the AFCON for example, we'd all be laughing about how blatantly corrupt it is. Wolves got knocked out of the FA Cup because the offside rule changed in the middle of the game and then later every single VAR camera simply forgot to watch their wrongly disallowed winning goal. Its reached a point where its just laughably unsubtle.
Not for me, if the yellow was given and then Burn makes that tackle an hour later without a yellow or free kick given, then it would look more consistent than a red for Case and nothing for Burn
It's the inconsistencies especially after we hear that Webb instructed VAR officials to interfere less when the ref has made an action on the pitch.
I don't think the yellow for Case is a clear and obvious error, but if it is then the handball should've been reviewed in the same basis
If it’s regularly not given as a red card then maybe it isn’t actually a red card.
If you look at my later post you'll see the stats compared to a number of teams. This is during his entire career, which dates back to 09/10, so it covers a vast array of time. He books our players at the same frequency as Chelsea and Stoke (2.1 per game). But the huge difference compared to all the other clubs (I checked 15 clubs including United) is that he books our players but doesn't book the opposition players. Somebody brought that stat up earlier so thought it would be interesting to check other clubs he's officiated to see if it was a pattern or we were just an anomaly. It might just be a peculiar one off stat mind. But is intriguing that we seem to be the only club he officiates in this way.
City is 0.3
The numbers in the table are just lowered down to 1 decimal places.
1.548 0.226 1.774
That's not how it works, drugs are illegal people do them on the regular it's still illegal.
It's clearly a red i'd be livid if someone went in for a challenge like that at any level of football.
Surely the analogy there is that if several different people got seen doing drugs, but only one of them was arrested for it?
It's also backed up by looking at what constitued a booking in the same game of football. On Sunday Martinez was booked early for blocking off a run (despite the guy booting the ball a mile away, but regardless, if you're booking for that fair enough) only for then no Southampton player to get a booking for similar offences (I specifically remember both AWB and Anothiny getting pulled back/tripped when running away from defenders).
Tbh with Taylor, as far as I'm concerned anyway, it's long past a point where if there was any integrity he'd have been removed from the job.
He is never close to consistent in any game and whenever I've actually paid enough attention it's been fairly clear he's applying different rules to each team, almost always favouring the one least likely to win. He's very noticeable for this even in comparison to other PL officials, which is why there's probably lots of football forums with an Antony Taylor thread.
The stats backing it up would just be a nail in the coffin. I mean to me those yellow card stats are a suspension and investigation on their own as that's some pretty damning circumstantial evidence. How do you legitimately explain those statistics as chance/honest error? That's about as likely a coin toss coming up heads 30 times in a row.
The analogy there would be the police just ignoring it 9 times out of 10. If it’s ignored 90% of the time then it’s safe to say it’s not as bad as you think.
We get 2 to 3 times more penalties than given against us because we spend more time attacking and in the opposition box. It's the same for most "top" teams (even if we are not a top team anymore), so this statistic is unsurprising.
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Theres no analogy to be had its a career threatening challenge, its a red, malicious intent or not.
You made the stupid analogy to begin with. It’s not a career threatening challenge you mad man.
course it is he won the ball first no questions but that follow through is dangerous, i'd remove the red tinted glasses the majority once they saw it in the ground were happy with the decision, instant leg breaker with a planted foot.
The guy’s not even injured. More dangerous tackles have gone unpunished. We’ve seen scissor tackles put two of our players on the sidelines with not so much as a yellow card. It’s not career threatening. Being hit with studs where your leg is protected by shin pads has never risked anybody’s career. You’re being incredibly melodramatic.
course it is he won the ball first no questions but that follow through is dangerous, i'd remove the red tinted glasses the majority once they saw it in the ground were happy with the decision also.
I'll let the rest decide in here, but anyone that actually has played football to a decent level knows that's a shocker of a challenge ball or not.
Oh look at me, I play football so I know better. I’ve played plenty of football and seen plenty injured. Usually it’s when somebody gets their leg trapped. Give me a single example of that kind of tackle threatening somebody’s career.
Using still images? Yeah ok Andre Marriner
course it is he won the ball first no questions but that follow through is dangerous, i'd remove the red tinted glasses the majority once they saw it in the ground were happy with the decision, instant leg breaker with a planted foot.
Sorry i forgot to get my phone out and record it in the flesh, he leaves with two feet on the floor in the video version feel free to tell me that's any less dangerous
Mate that’s probably the weakest excuse I’ve ever heard on this forum. It takes 20 seconds to find video replays of multiple angles.Sorry i forgot to get my phone out and record it in the flesh, he leaves with two feet on the floor in the video version feel free to tell me that's any less dangerous
It's a joke i just watched a video hence the latter, Casemiro is hardly kicking off thinking its entirely unfair himself either, he's gutted because of his stupidity.
VAR, is that you?
course it is he won the ball first no questions but that follow through is dangerous, i'd remove the red tinted glasses the majority once they saw it in the ground were happy with the decision, instant leg breaker with a planted foot.
Same as Bruno Guimaraes - who was sent off in the semi final second leg but was stlll available for the final because he'd served a 3 game ban in league games. Funny how the pundits didn't call for 'competition specific bans' when it came to him being available for the final, in the same they did for Pope missing it. They just ignored it instead.
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No, i've just watched a lot of football and seen how the most innocuous challenge can break a leg or end someone's ability to earn, when there's a dangerous studs up half way down the shin impact like casemiro's every single time it should be a red card, there is no need for that challenge at all.
Is that not exactly how the rules are written
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
I'm the first to say the handball was a dreadful decision and the 1 minute of added time after the first half which saw the casemiro sending off which was about 7 minutes of play wasted is beyond a sham, the red card is however bang on.
Pissing around aside, it's definitely a red card, there's just absolutely no way on earth it gets given if it's against us. We've been cunted by decisions for months now.
True.
But it's also the likely reason for that inconsistency that's annoying. Yes, every team gets good and bad decisions and they should equal themselves out. So you should take the rough with the smooth, etc. But no other clubs have managers coming out so often putting pressure on the referees to think twice about giving in our favour. And definitely no other teams has to deal with such support from large groups of the media in generating that issue, helping to make it a much bigger 'thing' for a decision to go our way than it should be.
That's definitely a negative that's unique to us in this country, which is why the amount of decision that start going against us each time this 'thing' starts feels more deliberate / manufactured rather than just innocent human error.
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No, because those stats are virtually useless and lack context. Try asking a data analyst if those numbers are significant and come and tell us what they tell you.'
This is over 50 games and even more than Liverpool.
PL refs are incompetent but this notion that Anthony Taylor is out to get United is small time.
Bingo.
Nope, they did away with that.
Surely the force of the challenge needs to be taken into consideration, not just the angle of the foot and point of contact? Watching it back (biased or not), I wouldn't say Casemiro was "recklessly flying" into the tackle, his leg is bent to absorb the force of the impact, vastly reducing the danger of the tackle. A straight legged challenge is a completely different matter. Thats why slow motion and still shots can be interpreted differently from real time replays. There was always scope for the officials to take a lesser view of the tackle, particularly when it was apparent quite quickly that no serious injury had occurred, but if it suits the agenda of certain individuals, then Casemiro presented them with an opportunity not to be missed.
I agree with the opinion, that if this sort of tackle was given a red card consistently then we should have no complaints. But that's clearly not happening so its frustrating.
I agree with the opinion, that if this sort of tackle was given a red card consistently then we should have no complaints. But that's clearly not happening so its frustrating.
I bet you think Walker-Peters tackle wasn't a foul too, meanwhile Alcarez walked away just fine and will be available for their next match, while Garnacho is in a boot and on crutches set to miss important cup matches, international matches and who knows when he'll be back.
There’s no serious argument against the red card for Casemiro…except that we see similar tackles all the time, or worse actually, and no response by PL referees.
Andy Carroll went into Eriksen with much greater force, resulting in a serious injury, and yet he wasn’t even booked.
Andy Carroll went into Eriksen with much greater force, resulting in a serious injury, and yet he wasn’t even booked.
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