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2022-23 Performances


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Malone_Post

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That's an extremely simplistic POV.

All that matters is that the team perform well and score lots of goals. If he ultimately helps us do that in the same way ETH saw him help Ajax do that then it doesn't matter in the slightest whether he's the one claiming significant productivity or not. It's team-first, not player-first.
Well the team isn’t going to score lots of goals if one of its main three attackers doesn’t, you know, score or create goals.
 

sullydnl

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Attacking players, forwards are there to create and score goals. That's their job. How can Manchester United consider buying attackers who neither score or create? When did that become Manchester United style of play?

This is my worry, the years of a relative lack of success, has left some fans grappling (and seemingly) accepting the average.

Antony is a forward, playing for an ambitious club with an astute manager and if he isn't delivering, the outsome is ineveitable. So it should be. He wasn't forced to sign for Manchester United.
Ajax scored 98 goals in their league last season. Of those, Antony scored just 8. Yet ETH thought he was so valuable and central to their attack that he was willing to sanction us paying 100m to bring him here.

If the same thing replicated here and our attack was hitting that sort of goal tally with Antony as a central figure, that would be a massive success. And the fact that he "only" scored 8 of them would be neither here nor there.

Attackers aren't there to create and score goals. They're there to make sure your team creates and scores goals. There's a difference.
 

Bestietom

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He doesn't beat players like a winger should and his crossing is non existent. Big waste of money. We would have been better off putting it towards a true CF.
 

sullydnl

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Well the team isn’t going to score lots of goals if one of its main three attackers doesn’t, you know, score or create goals.
They have to score and create goals. But they don't all have to individually score and create that many.

As this manager and this player already showed at Ajax. Or as Liverpool showed when they won a PL & CL with one of their key players being a centre-forward who was notable for scoring relatively few goals. Or as City showed when they won the league with Ilkay Gundogan as their top scorer.

Team goals are what count, nothing else. And teams can clearly score a lot of goals even while some of their attackers contribute relatively few of them.
 

NotoriousISSY

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It is senseless to hold Nunez, Pepe, Grealish, Lukaku and Antony to any other standard than their own ability.

We can criticize the leadership of Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea and United for unwize use of money. Antony can only play to his capability. If someone rates that to 90m€, that’s on them. The best I can say about someone who keeps complaining about a player not playing to the standard of their buying price, is that they are doubly stupid, because first they claim the club management is stupid for valuing player X to 100m when he’s clearly not worth more than 50m, and then they continue to use this stupid valuation themselves as a yardstick to asess the player, despite they themselves don’t think it’s a valid yardstick. How stupid is that?

By all means, criticize Arnold for spending 100m€ on Antony, and Woodward for spending 80m€ on Maguire. And criticize Ten Hag for playing Antony ahead of Pellistri and Solskjær for playing Maguire ahead of Bailly if you like. But it makes no sense to crticize a player who tries his best for not being better than he actually is.
As senseless or as stupid as it is, almost every metric in football is cross-analysed with money.

By fans, the media, broadcasters, social media platforms...the lot.

But as we've both said, those who sign the cheques are ultimately responsible. He isn't the first and certainly won't be the last big money move who ultimately crumbles.
 

Woziak

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He doesn't beat players like a winger should and his crossing is non existent. Big waste of money. We would have been better off putting it towards a true CF.
If ETH learns from this signing, especially when he had enough time to assess our squad. Amad Diallo needs to promoted in the summer and Jadon Sancho given the number 7 shirt and the confidence to be the player we all know he can be. I’d like to see our first 11 look like this very soon, all being fit; D De Gea, Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemeiro, Ericssen, Bruno, Sancho, Martial, Rashford with the bench looking like this J Butland, T Mallacia, AWB, H Maguire, Fred, Antony, Weghorst, V Lindelof Garnaucho

we Should take £30-35m for Mctominay get Tielemans in for £10M and find another attacking player number 10 for the rest
We need players asap.
 

kundalini

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That's an extremely simplistic POV.

All that matters is that the team perform well and score lots of goals. If he ultimately helps us do that in the same way ETH saw him help Ajax do that then it doesn't matter in the slightest whether he's the one claiming significant productivity or not. It's team-first, not player-first.
Ok. That's a fair perspective.

So I'm going to assess Antony and Elanga simply on the goals scored in the PL when they were on the pitch; no need for them to be involved in the move.

For Antony - the team scored 17 goals in 835 PL mins. Elanga - the team scored 8 goals in 392 PL mins. (stats from Transfermarkt)

There's barely any difference on a per 90 mins basis.

The best case for Antony seems to be that his pass completion in the PL is 79.1% compared to Elanga's 76.3%, while his dispossessed and unsuccessful touches add up to 2.3 per 90 mins, against Elanga's 4.1 per 90 mins. In simple terms, he's a bit better at retaining possession.
 
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Jeffthered

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[QUOTE. Attackers aren't there to create and score goals. They're there to make sure your team creates and scores goals. There's a difference.
[/QUOTE]

Football in 2023. Priceless
 

Pogue Mahone

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Ok. That's a fair perspective.

So I'm going to assess Antony and Elanga simply on the goals scored in the PL when they were on the pitch; no need for them to be involved in the move.

For Antony - the team scored 17 goals in 835 PL mins. Elanga - the team scored 8 goals in 392 PL mins. (stats from Transfermarkt)

There's barely any difference on a per 90 mins basis.

The best case for Antony seems to be that his pass completion in the PL is 79.1% compared to Elanga's 76.3%, while his dispossessed and unsuccessful touches add up to 2.3 per 90 mins, against Elanga's 4.1 per 90 mins. In simple terms, he's a bit better at retaining possession.
That’s a terrible comparison. You’re judging Elanga on a tiny sample size (just over 4 matches) and they didn’t rack up those minutes against equally difficult opponents. Anthony will have definitely played much more minutes against top teams than Elanga has, so you’re comparing apples and oranges.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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This.

Not sure why everyone is dismissing him already. He's shown what he can do, he's looked painfully isolated in recent games though. AwB has shown a bit more in an attacking sense lately, but he just doesn't instinctively make those overlapping runs and often takes the overly safe sideways or backwards pass when there's opportunity to progress forward. There's not much free space out there and Antony's often looked restricted as a result.

He's hard working and got the right attitude. I'm confident he'll come good.
I think people's issues with him stem from him not being any sort of creator passing/crossing wise, and at the same time he's not a Garnacho type direct winger that is taking everyone on in order to find space for shots either. That's an issue no matter how you spin it, because essentially he's not providing any sort of danger for opposition as long as you don't let him hit that curler from the edge of the box. At least with Sancho you could clearly see he has a great eye for a pass and was technically better than Antony where the ball would stick to his feet.
 

MrBest

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I dont quite get the hate this guy has been picking up in the last few weeks. I've seen people write we should have gor Mudrick, Elanga is better or we should have given Amas a run instead. It's funny the amnesia people suffer because 4 months ago, pretty much everyone wanted him and many said the guy needs a season here before we really know what he's about. I think Antony has shown flashes of what he can do, great ball technique, can whip a cross, blistering pace, close ball control, tracks back, can lay a quick one two, the consistency is just lacking. I see a Mahrez type player in there, he just should never of cost 90m but that was not his fault. Give the guy time as we all said at the start, I'm confident that next season we will have a different player.
 

Grande

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As senseless or as stupid as it is, almost every metric in football is cross-analysed with money.

By fans, the media, broadcasters, social media platforms...the lot.

But as we've both said, those who sign the cheques are ultimately responsible. He isn't the first and certainly won't be the last big money move who ultimately crumbles.
Money can be used to analyze money use, and little else. Easy to forget that, but important to remember.

Analyzing fans and phundits making bad analysis therefore is important. It’s not money making them do it (well, yes, the phundit’s do it to sell), it’s conflating money and performances.

Antony isn’t crumbling, he is playing like a player of his quite good capabilities in a new team and a new league. He’s capable of putting in a good defensive shift, keeping positions pretty well disciplined for an attacker, make himself available often, retain ball well, pass well when playing out from the back, dribble ok, has a few good shots on him and a good leftie cross. He’s a bit lightweight, but quite strong, not very fast but quick feet, very one-footed. Attacking, defending and fitting the style of play, I’d say he fit’s the RW better for us right now than any of Bruno, Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Pellistri, Elanga and Diallo, so I think Ten Hag is correct in using him. He clearly is a fighter and gives his all, so I’m satisfied in him. I hope one of Sancho, Pellistri or Diallo can develop to challenge him for the RW spot, if else I think we need to invest more in that position regardless.

I wouldn’t have paid 100m€ for him even this summer, but maybe I would, because seeing what United have there now, and the lack of fighting mentality many players had, and what RW options were available this summer, maybe it was actually worth a 30m premium to get him in now to get the Ten Hag process rolling and get into the CL for next season.
 

kundalini

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That’s a terrible comparison. You’re judging Elanga on a tiny sample size (just over 4 matches) and they didn’t rack up those minutes against equally difficult opponents. Anthony will have definitely played much more minutes against top teams than Elanga has, so you’re comparing apples and oranges.
What is an appropriate comparison ?

So far I've tried Dan James, Sancho, Elanga, on goals + assists per 90 mins, expected goals + assists per 90 mins, pass completion, possession loss, team stats when on the pitch.

Unfortunately, managers tend not to divide a specific role in the team 50/50, with careful attention paid to strength of opposition, so you are left with one player getting a lot of playing time, while his supposed competition is restricted to occasional starts and sub appearances.
 

Pogue Mahone

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What is an appropriate comparison ?

So far I've tried Dan James, Sancho, Elanga, on goals + assists per 90 mins, expected goals + assists per 90 mins, pass completion, possession loss, team stats when on the pitch.

Unfortunately, managers tend not to divide a specific role in the team 50/50, with careful attention paid to strength of opposition, so you are left with one player getting a lot of playing time, while his supposed competition is restricted to occasional starts and sub appearances.
If the only comparison you can make is misleading, then don’t make a comparison.

Apart from anything else, it’s pointless. We all know Anthony needs more end product. His goal return is ok-ish but he’s not getting enough assists. So the point doesn’t even need to be made. Posting a load of misleading comparisons to give the impression he’s a worse player than Elanga or James is just a waste of time.
 

sullydnl

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[QUOTE. Attackers aren't there to create and score goals. They're there to make sure your team creates and scores goals. There's a difference.
Football in 2023. Priceless
[/QUOTE]

Football always. The idea that the team comes first isn't new.
 

Andycoleno9

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So by some here; we were spot on to pay 100 mil for a player who is there to keep the ball well, make good short passes and tracks back.
Blimey. I am not football scout but i bet that even i can find that type of player for bargain price of 5 mil euros.

If you pay 100 million for winger then that winger must shit goals and/or assists. Period.

Having said that; i am not writting him off. I trust ETH. He knows why he payed 100 mil for Antony. But so far Antony is not doing well
 

Stacks

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It is senseless to hold Nunez, Pepe, Grealish, Lukaku and Antony to any other standard than their own ability.

We can criticize the leadership of Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea and United for unwize use of money. Antony can only play to his capability. If someone rates that to 90m€, that’s on them. The best I can say about someone who keeps complaining about a player not playing to the standard of their buying price, is that they are doubly stupid, because first they claim the club management is stupid for valuing player X to 100m when he’s clearly not worth more than 50m, and then they continue to use this stupid valuation themselves as a yardstick to asess the player, despite they themselves don’t think it’s a valid yardstick. How stupid is that?

By all means, criticize Arnold for spending 100m€ on Antony, and Woodward for spending 80m€ on Maguire. And criticize Ten Hag for playing Antony ahead of Pellistri and Solskjær for playing Maguire ahead of Bailly if you like. But it makes no sense to crticize a player who tries his best for not being better than he actually is.
All facts
 

Stacks

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So by some here; we were spot on to pay 100 mil for a player who is there to keep the ball well, make good short passes and tracks back.
Blimey. I am not football scout but i bet that even i can find that type of player for bargain price of 5 mil euros.

If you pay 100 million for winger then that winger must shit goals and/or assists. Period.

Having said that; i am not writting him off. I trust ETH. He knows why he payed 100 mil for Antony. But so far Antony is not doing well
there's no way he knows why he paid £100million as his role isn't £100 million of value. Like most managers they have a very limited library of players. Is it any surprise we signed Weghorst and linked to Dutch/former Ajax/Eredivisie players?
 

NFM

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I dont quite get the hate this guy has been picking up in the last few weeks. I've seen people write we should have gor Mudrick, Elanga is better or we should have given Amas a run instead. It's funny the amnesia people suffer because 4 months ago, pretty much everyone wanted him and many said the guy needs a season here before we really know what he's about. I think Antony has shown flashes of what he can do, great ball technique, can whip a cross, blistering pace, close ball control, tracks back, can lay a quick one two, the consistency is just lacking. I see a Mahrez type player in there, he just should never of cost 90m but that was not his fault. Give the guy time as we all said at the start, I'm confident that next season we will have a different player.
Blistering pace he most certainly does not have. I am old enough to remember Brazilian wingers who did have blistering pace and used their 'other foot' for more than standing on. He might have done a job for 10Hag in the Dutch league and got himself to the fringes of his ( poor by historical standards) national team, but he is not worth the investment nor is he good enough to keep Garnacho or Sancho ( hopefully restored soon) out of the team. I am not even sure he is a better bet than Pellestri.
I don't like the idea of United playing two guys as 'forwards/attackers' who seem to be picked for their perceived defensive capabilities. Its not as if the team is flushed with marauding attacking midfielders busting a gut to get onto the ball in the opponents area.
 

lex talionis

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The price tag will always be a legitimate talking point, just as it is with Maguire. Pogba as well. United do tend to overpaying and will again I’m sure.

But here we are and I think there’s unanimous agreement that Antony has more in his boots than he’s shown so far. If nothing else, I’d like to see him take on defenders more and beat them to their left and cross the ball with his right foot if it’s on or drive into the box if that’s on. There’s too little of that in his game IMO.
 

sullydnl

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So by some here; we were spot on to pay 100 mil for a player who is there to keep the ball well, make good short passes and tracks back.
Blimey. I am not football scout but i bet that even i can find that type of player for bargain price of 5 mil euros.

If you pay 100 million for winger then that winger must shit goals and/or assists. Period.

Having said that; i am not writting him off. I trust ETH. He knows why he payed 100 mil for Antony. But so far Antony is not doing well
Who said the bold?

I don't know why people keep bringing up the price to those defending Antony as if it's some sort of gotcha, it was already crystal clear before he even kicked a ball for us that we had overpaid for him and why. Nothing has magically changed since then.

That price tag doesn't impact the points being made about good he can or can't be for us though, or how good we can or can't be with him in the team, or what he does or doesn't offer as a player. All of which seems more relevant to a player performance thread at this point than a price argument 99% of the forum already agree on.
 

MyBloodIsRed

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Decent player but man he slows things down going forward! If we had a healthy/fit Sancho I think it'd be Rash and Sancho on the wings. Rash needs a rest so I'm hoping he gets it with the cup games coming up.
 

The Dane

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I think he has the right attitude and he will benefit when Sancho returns and we don’t have to rely on him as a starter.
It’s not his fault that we have paid 30-40M more than what seems a fair valuation
 
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RedRoach

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Ajax scored 98 goals in their league last season. Of those, Antony scored just 8. Yet ETH thought he was so valuable and central to their attack that he was willing to sanction us paying 100m to bring him here.

If the same thing replicated here and our attack was hitting that sort of goal tally with Antony as a central figure, that would be a massive success. And the fact that he "only" scored 8 of them would be neither here nor there.

Attackers aren't there to create and score goals. They're there to make sure your team creates and scores goals. There's a difference.
Agree with this. The best managers create teams where by players can be swapped in and out without drastically impacting the performance of the team. We have to get away from being reliant of moments of individual brilliance which was what Ole relied on because as a manager he had no clue. If Anthony only contributes 8 goals in a a season but it results in us having a far better functioning team then the signing was successful. For that we have to trust in what ETH is doing.
 

Grande

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The price tag will always be a legitimate talking point, just as it is with Maguire. Pogba as well. United do tend to overpaying and will again I’m sure.

But here we are and I think there’s unanimous agreement that Antony has more in his boots than he’s shown so far. If nothing else, I’d like to see him take on defenders more and beat them to their left and cross the ball with his right foot if it’s on or drive into the box if that’s on. There’s too little of that in his game IMO.
The price tag will always be a legitimate talking about United’s spending of money, and nothing else. It will be irrelevant to matchday threads, performance threads, player threads. It will even be irrelevant to future transfer threads, because if anyone would want to buy Antony, they would buy him for what they think he is worth to them, not for what United paid for him in 2022. I’m sure several people will bring it up in these threads regardless, but as with Maguire and Pogba, it won’t be legitimate.
 

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Ajax scored 98 goals in their league last season. Of those, Antony scored just 8. Yet ETH thought he was so valuable and central to their attack that he was willing to sanction us paying 100m to bring him here.

If the same thing replicated here and our attack was hitting that sort of goal tally with Antony as a central figure, that would be a massive success. And the fact that he "only" scored 8 of them would be neither here nor there.

Attackers aren't there to create and score goals. They're there to make sure your team creates and scores goals. There's a difference.
Yeah but we're not scoring 98 goals. We're badly lacking in terms of goalscoring and chance creation, and the fact that one of our three most attacking players creates next to nothing obviously adds to that problem.
 

MrBest

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Blistering pace he most certainly does not have. I am old enough to remember Brazilian wingers who did have blistering pace and used their 'other foot' for more than standing on. He might have done a job for 10Hag in the Dutch league and got himself to the fringes of his ( poor by historical standards) national team, but he is not worth the investment nor is he good enough to keep Garnacho or Sancho ( hopefully restored soon) out of the team. I am not even sure he is a better bet than Pellestri.















I don't like the idea of United playing two guys as 'forwards/attackers' who seem to be picked for their perceived defensive capabilities. Its not as if the team is flushed with marauding attacking midfielders busting a gut to get onto the ball in the opponents area.






I do find the comparison of the league a bit short changed. Mudrik is coming from the Ukranian league. I understand that the standard in Holland is not the same as the EPL but you could say the same about almost every league in the world. I think Antony needs time, I too am old enough to appreciate the wingers of the past but football has changed the defensive capability is very much part of the modern game. I can't sit here and tell you are wrong though because who knows what will happen with Antony is ones years time, but in my opinion, I never expected him to hit the ground running but I see a player there that I like and could do a job for us. I certainly wouldn't not go as far as saying Pellistri could be better because he has played 1 game for us, a handful for his country and spent 1.5 years on the bench in Spain, I do like him though. It's funny you pointed out Sancho, I think the start Antony has made has been better, especially in terms of output. I believe Sancho will come good but if you gave the patience for him, maybe you should give Antony a bit more time before you fully write him off.
 

sullydnl

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Yeah but we're not scoring 98 goals. We're badly lacking in terms of goalscoring and chance creation, and the fact that one of our three most attacking players creates next to nothing obviously adds to that problem.
Correct.

But the difference between that Ajax side's productivity and our productivity isn't coming from Antony. It's the lack of producivity from elsewhere, most obviously in the shape of the 20+ goal striker we don't have. And it seems unreasonable to expect Antony to turn into a different sort of player to compensate for what we lack elsewhere, as if he was signed to provide all those missing goals/assists instead of being signed for what he actually provided to that Ajax side.

Antony needs to improve, no question. He's not producing for us what he did for Ajax, let alone what ETH likely hopes will be more than that as develops. But my point is that he doesn't have to become that productive a player to be for us what he was for Ajax. And presumably ETH will be happy enough if he is that for us.
 

Andycoleno9

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Who said the bold?

I don't know why people keep bringing up the price to those defending Antony as if it's some sort of gotcha, it was already crystal clear before he even kicked a ball for us that we had overpaid for him and why. Nothing has magically changed since then.

That price tag doesn't impact the points being made about good he can or can't be for us though, or how good we can or can't be with him in the team, or what he does or doesn't offer as a player. All of which seems more relevant to a player performance thread at this point than a price argument 99% of the forum already agree on.
The price tag will always be a legitimate talking about United’s spending of money, and nothing else. It will be irrelevant to matchday threads, performance threads, player threads. It will even be irrelevant to future transfer threads, because if anyone would want to buy Antony, they would buy him for what they think he is worth to them, not for what United paid for him in 2022. I’m sure several people will bring it up in these threads regardless, but as with Maguire and Pogba, it won’t be legitimate.
Price matters. Because it has impact on future transfers. Clubs have transfer budgets. Plus FFP rules.
His fee is the reason (well, one of the reasons) why we needed to loan Wout instead going for Osimhen for example.
Also it has big impact on future transfer of that player. 50 mil for AWB was the reason why we didn't bought another right full back this summer. Because we couldn't sell him for decent fee (to get at least some money back).

So, price reflects quality. If you are paying 100 mil for a player he must be a game changer. If you are paying 10 mil (Malacia) then he can be in rotation and always can be sold for more or less same money.
 

r1z3mu

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At what point are we able to make conclusions about Antony?
By end of this season I guess. It will be one full season and if he is playing like 40 million attacker then it's all on ETH (and not our board). ETH wanted him so badly that we overpaid huge sum.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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By end of this season I guess. It will be one full season and if he is playing like 40 million attacker then it's all on ETH (and not our board). ETH wanted him so badly that we overpaid huge sum.
Yeah, end of the season seems fair. Although, Mudryck who is a similar position, same age and similar price did well on his debut - whether that is a one off or not remains to be seen I guess. It doesn’t have to take a season to get going in a new league.
 
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sullydnl

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At what point are we able to make conclusions about Antony?
Assuming we sign a goalscoring CF in the summer, I think we'll have a very good idea next season.

Presumably Rashford/CF/Antony would be intended to be our first choice attack. And while I think Antony will be the least productive member of that attack, we should see him putting in subjectively good performances as a nailed on first choice part of that attack while it is scoring a lot of goals. Whereas if the attack is still floundering or he's struggling within it....

Basically it seems unfair to come to any hard conclusions when we have such a glaring gap at CF, as that impacts all of our other attackers.
 

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People forget the guy is only 22. He's just joined a new team in arguably the toughest league in the world.

His price tag isn't his fault, Ajax/United came to that figure. That's out of his hands.

He's going to get better and better. People writing him off this early is absolutely insane.

Martial has had about 7 seasons and some people still insist the best is yet to come!
 

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Price matters. Because it has impact on future transfers. Clubs have transfer budgets. Plus FFP rules.
His fee is the reason (well, one of the reasons) why we needed to loan Wout instead going for Osimhen for example.
Also it has big impact on future transfer of that player. 50 mil for AWB was the reason why we didn't bought another right full back this summer. Because we couldn't sell him for decent fee (to get at least some money back).

So, price reflects quality. If you are paying 100 mil for a player he must be a game changer. If you are paying 10 mil (Malacia) then he can be in rotation and always can be sold for more or less same money.
This post doesn’t make sense as an answer to what I wrote. Of course price matters - when analysing spending and negotiations, which is what Woodward before and now Arnold/Murtaugh are responsible for. If we’re talking about good spending, price matters. The spending reflects on the spenders, not on what is spent on. The consequences of spending badly, will be on further spending, obviously.

If you think you can get a better full back than Wan Bissaka for 20m€, and someone offers €25m for Wan Bissaka, you aren’t going to cling on to the lesser full back just because you once spent 50€m on him, because you won’t earn those money back by clinging to him - quite the opposite. If Wan Bissaka is more useful as an option to Ten Hag than the money we can sell him for, Ten Hag will probably ask Arnold/Murtaugh that we keep him. What Woodward paid for him doesn’t come into that.

We won’t get 100m€ if we sell Antony in the summer, so when we discuss Antony’s performances, his qualities, how he does for us, it is irrelevant how much Arnold paid for him in 2022. That’s only relevant if we are talking about Arnold/Murtaugh’s performances, right? They accepted the price and spent the money, Antony didn’t. antony plays football, to the best of his capabilities, and as long as Ten Hag thinks he’s better than Sancho and Pellistri, he’ll be useful.
 

el3mel

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People forget the guy is only 22. He's just joined a new team in arguably the toughest league in the world.

His price tag isn't his fault, Ajax/United came to that figure. That's out of his hands.

He's going to get better and better. People writing him off this early is absolutely insane.

Martial has had about 7 seasons and some people still insist the best is yet to come!
Here's the catch: I'm getting tired of signing players with ton of cash then waiting years for them to miraculously develop and become the players we thought we bought, giving them ton of excuses in the long run, before finally giving up and selling them to buy another player who goes exactly the same route.

Can't you notice this trend has been very common among of ton of players we bought post Fergie ?

Depay, Martial, Pogba, Sancho, Antony..etc.
 

Hughie77

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We know UTD overpaid that much has been said, he's got something about him but needs to give more needs to be better off his right foot, plus he needs to be more direct , that is an issue as his pace is not quick. He has to improve
 

flappyjay

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Correct.

But the difference between that Ajax side's productivity and our productivity isn't coming from Antony. It's the lack of producivity from elsewhere, most obviously in the shape of the 20+ goal striker we don't have. And it seems unreasonable to expect Antony to turn into a different sort of player to compensate for what we lack elsewhere, as if he was signed to provide all those missing goals/assists instead of being signed for what he actually provided to that Ajax side.

Antony needs to improve, no question. He's not producing for us what he did for Ajax, let alone what ETH likely hopes will be more than that as develops. But my point is that he doesn't have to become that productive a player to be for us what he was for Ajax. And presumably ETH will be happy enough if he is that for us.
Man got carried by the Ajax attack. He will play better with Dalot, he will play better with a striker who he can cross to and now its he doesn't have to score or assist. Its the strikers fault that Antony isn't performing. So if we had someone like Haaland banging them in Anthony's performances would be justified?
 

2 man midfield

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I don’t even care about goals necessarily, he just isn’t involved enough. And then every time he did get on the ball yesterday I was just waiting for him to lose it.
 
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